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View Full Version : Lawn issue....need help


dregg
09-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Planted a new fescue lawn from seed 3 years ago. I live on Long Island, NY.
I've noticed (2) types of foreign grass growing amongst the fescue within the lawn.

I'm going to try to best describe the issue and show pictures.

The first is this type of grass
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5000/dsc0025ko.jpg
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4673/dsc0002qj.jpg

As you can see, it has a very intrusive root system that's just below the soil. I have an 8'x8' section that has this grass. I must say, it's pretty thick and plush now (September here in NY). Here's a picture of it in the area. You can best see it along the driveway blocks at the bend. The grass is slightly taller and greener than the rest of the grass pictured.
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2893/dsc0027ub.jpg

I'd like to positively know what type of grass it is and how/if I should try to remove it. I believe it to be "Bermuda Grass" but I want to be certain.


The 2nd type of grass I have is this type.
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/91/dsc0030ze.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2803/dsc0003gm.jpg

It's growing in patches in the lawn. The root system appears to be centralized with the grass itself branching out and running under the thatch in a vine like fashion and popping out.
Here's what it looks like in the lawn
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5098/dsc0029kf.jpg
It's the taller grass that looks like a tiny pine tree.

I would like to completely remove this grass, or whatever it is. Does anyone know what it is, and how to rid it ?

Thanks in advance.

dregg
09-08-2012, 09:53 AM
Can anyone offer advice? I'd like to work on this issue this weekend.

kirk1701
09-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Can anyone offer advice? I'd like to work on this issue this weekend.

Give them some time someone will be along shortly

I'm guessing Bermuda grass

dregg
09-08-2012, 06:30 PM
Give them some time someone will be along shortly

I'm guessing Bermuda grass

If the top pic depicts Bermuda grass, I may have to leave it alone. I thatched my lawn today (going to aerate it tomorrow) and seed with Kentucky Blue grass.
While working on the lawn, I see that this Bermuda grass is in a few areas. It will be too hard for me to remove it all so I may have to learn to live with it.

The other stuff pictured below I pretty much hand picked it from the lawn. I think if I keep picking it as I see it, I'll eventually get rid of it. I'm hoping the bluegrass thickens the fescue lawn.

kirk1701
09-08-2012, 07:10 PM
If the top pic depicts Bermuda grass, I may have to leave it alone. I thatched my lawn today (going to aerate it tomorrow) and seed with Kentucky Blue grass.
While working on the lawn, I see that this Bermuda grass is in a few areas. It will be too hard for me to remove it all so I may have to learn to live with it.

The other stuff pictured below I pretty much hand picked it from the lawn. I think if I keep picking it as I see it, I'll eventually get rid of it. I'm hoping the bluegrass thickens the fescue lawn.

The top pic does but the roots do not and the forth pic down looks like something totally different. Question, does this have little seed on it that shoot off when you touch it?

Ok, I see what your saying you know you have some bermuda; I wouldn't learn to live with it but if its only enough that will take a few hours to pull, do it. You can't kill bemuda unless its roundup.

macgyver_GA
09-08-2012, 07:41 PM
It's bermudagrass. My whole lawn is made up of it :D

dregg
09-08-2012, 08:44 PM
The top pic does but the roots do not and the forth pic down looks like something totally different. Question, does this have little seed on it that shoot off when you touch it?

Ok, I see what your saying you know you have some bermuda; I wouldn't learn to live with it but if its only enough that will take a few hours to pull, do it. You can't kill bemuda unless its roundup.

No seeds that shoot off when you touch it. What grass does that? There was a batch of that at my buddy's house.

So, you think I should rip out as much of the Bermuda as possible, then over seed the area?

White Gardens
09-09-2012, 09:25 AM
No seeds that shoot off when you touch it. What grass does that? There was a batch of that at my buddy's house.

So, you think I should rip out as much of the Bermuda as possible, then over seed the area?

You can but you'll still have problems.

I can't say what the second grass is for sure, but I'm guessing bermuda on the first one. If I had to take a guess on the second grass I'd say it's zoysia.

Really the only control is to spray the area with round-up and re-seed. But then it's tough to get it all.

The best control I've seen for bermuda was this years drought. I'm pretty sure most of my Bermuda spots died off due to the lack of moisture.


.....

Patriot Services
09-09-2012, 09:33 AM
Bermuda is forever. Nothing you can put on it that won't kill your fescue and kbg too. Complete kill off with multiple doses of round up is the only way to remove large patches of it.
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kirk1701
09-09-2012, 10:52 AM
Bermuda is forever. Nothing you can put on it that won't kill your fescue and kbg too. Complete kill off with multiple doses of round up is the only way to remove large patches of it.
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Which is why I say pull it, I take the time when I mow and put flags when I see it starts popping up then go back the next day or two when I have the time and go to each marker and just carefully pull it and try to get the roots.

I've successfully kept it under control in my front yard now for 4 years doing this way.

Yes, its tedious and takes a little patience ;)

dregg
09-09-2012, 01:31 PM
Ok, how about this.

I just ripped up a big section and went a foot beyond the last Bermuda grass root. I have a bare 8' x 6' section now. Should I saturate the soil with round up and re-apply it again in a week? How long do I have to wait after the last application of round up before I seed the area ?

This a good idea...rip out, then spray soil with round up ?

Patriot Services
09-09-2012, 01:57 PM
Great idea. No wait time after last app of roundup. Don't get mad though if you still end up with some. Seeds will blow in from the other parts of the yard and the neighbors.
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maynardGkeynes
09-09-2012, 04:52 PM
Ok, how about this.

I just ripped up a big section and went a foot beyond the last Bermuda grass root. I have a bare 8' x 6' section now. Should I saturate the soil with round up and re-apply it again in a week? How long do I have to wait after the last application of round up before I seed the area ?

This a good idea...rip out, then spray soil with round up ?I don't think round-up works by putting in the soil. You have to spray a living, growing plant. Just leave the bare patch alone and see what pops up. Then remove that by digging it out. You should be then be ok to seed.

maynardGkeynes
09-09-2012, 04:55 PM
...
The best control I've seen for bermuda was this years drought. I'm pretty sure most of my Bermuda spots died off due to the lack of moisture......Trust me, it only sleeps....

Patriot Services
09-09-2012, 05:00 PM
Bermuda will resprout in 48hrs. Personal use has shown spraying the soil and remaining root structure prevents this. Bermuda roots can go down FEET. It will always come back if all you do is wait.
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kirk1701
09-09-2012, 06:08 PM
Great idea. No wait time after last app of roundup. Don't get mad though if you still end up with some. Seeds will blow in from the other parts of the yard and the neighbors.
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Now that's one thing I wondered about what the seed looked like on Bermuda?

I have yet to see it with seed on it.

Patriot Services
09-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Now that's one thing I wondered about what the seed looked like on Bermuda?

I have yet to see it with seed on it.

It grows up into a spiky, star shaped seed head. All it needs is heat and a little moisture.
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kirk1701
09-09-2012, 10:58 PM
It grows up into a spiky, star shaped seed head. All it needs is heat and a little moisture.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'll have to look for that, thanks.

You know what else is funny; I have an area of my yard thats unmaintenanced; I get some crab grass in it and other weeds each year and actually just sprayed that area today with Trimec. This area is fruit tree's so I don't like spaying it as I would the rest of the yard.

This area, have yet to see the first vine of burmuda grass in it :laugh:
And it borders my neighbors yard and their back yard is made of weeds but they don't crawl into my land :clapping:

But oh my managed turf, hell yea I pull and spray. :dizzy:

macgyver_GA
09-10-2012, 10:01 AM
Trust me, it only sleeps....

Haha yep, It's kinda like Diamonds. "Bermuda is forever"

Unless you kill it off with roundup, but it's hard to kill it all. It will take repeated applications.

Trust me, the drought will kill off your fescue before it kills the bermuda. Bermuda is very drought tolerant. Much more than most cool season varieties. You may not see the above ground foliage doing anything, but the roots underground are still alive and well. They're just taking a little nap before dinner (Fert & water). Then it'll shoot up new growth.

Smallaxe
09-10-2012, 06:54 PM
I can't imagine someone[b] spraying bare soil with Roundup[b]... does anyone believe that the Roundup will soak into the roots through the dirt??? I've heard of soaking it into stubble after a fresh cut, but it is supposed to be inactive once it hits the soil...

maynardGkeynes
09-10-2012, 08:13 PM
I can't imagine someone[b] spraying bare soil with Roundup[b]... does anyone believe that the Roundup will soak into the roots through the dirt??? I've heard of soaking it into stubble after a fresh cut, but it is supposed to be inactive once it hits the soil...That is my understanding as well. It is a systemic that gets to the root by entering through the leaves. No leaves, no poison.

Patriot Services
09-11-2012, 12:16 PM
I don't think you guyd realize how fast bermuda will put up a new blade. Gly will destroy a seed if the hull is slightly breached. Bermuda roots at the surface will take up gly as well. Anybody familiar with trying to remove it uses multi apps of gly.
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TurnerLandscape
09-13-2012, 09:06 PM
The first pic is 100% bermuda, and the only way to get rid of it, is to spray and respray in their growing season, which in New York is probably about over. There is no point in trying to pull it out because you will not be able to remove all of the rhizomes/stolons. The latter pic is zoysia, again, spray and respray. There is no point in putting down KBG, it will just get choked out by the bermuda and zoysia.

TurnerLandscape
09-13-2012, 09:11 PM
ok,, whoever posted about bermuda spreading by seed heads has no idea what they are talking about. Bermuda spreads by two ways 1. stolons-roots that grow laterally above ground, and re-roots itself, where it sends up new tillers. 2. rhizomes-roots that grow underground and sends up tillers. NOT BY SEED, when you are wanting to install bermuda, 99% of the time, it is by plugging. I have never heard of anyone, seeding bermuda

maynardGkeynes
09-13-2012, 11:00 PM
ok,, whoever posted about bermuda spreading by seed heads has no idea what they are talking about. Bermuda spreads by two ways 1. stolons-roots that grow laterally above ground, and re-roots itself, where it sends up new tillers. 2. rhizomes-roots that grow underground and sends up tillers. NOT BY SEED, when you are wanting to install bermuda, 99% of the time, it is by plugging. I have never heard of anyone, seeding bermudaThe hybrid bermudas must be plugged, but there are a lot of improved seed cultivars, like Yukon and Riviera that can give the hybrids a run for the money.

Patriot Services
09-14-2012, 05:57 AM
ok,, whoever posted about bermuda spreading by seed heads has no idea what they are talking about. Bermuda spreads by two ways 1. stolons-roots that grow laterally above ground, and re-roots itself, where it sends up new tillers. 2. rhizomes-roots that grow underground and sends up tillers. NOT BY SEED, when you are wanting to install bermuda, 99% of the time, it is by plugve never heard of anyone, seeding bermuda

Common Bermuda sure as hell does produce viable seed. Go look it up. Seed and runners is another reason why it is so hardy.
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macgyver_GA
09-14-2012, 08:58 AM
ok,, whoever posted about bermuda spreading by seed heads has no idea what they are talking about. Bermuda spreads by two ways 1. stolons-roots that grow laterally above ground, and re-roots itself, where it sends up new tillers. 2. rhizomes-roots that grow underground and sends up tillers. NOT BY SEED, when you are wanting to install bermuda, 99% of the time, it is by plugging. I have never heard of anyone, seeding bermuda

This is true for most hybrid bermuda varieties. However, Common bermuda as well as a few other cultivars can be propogated from seed.

maynardGkeynes
09-14-2012, 09:01 AM
This is true for most hybrid bermuda varieties. However, Common bermuda as well as a few other cultivars can be propogated from seed.Yes, and some of the seed ones look pretty good to me. Riviera, Princess, Yukon, all good, reasonably dark, dense turf. Not quite as fine bladed as the hybrids, but still a nice stand.

TurnerLandscape
09-22-2012, 05:44 PM
Patriot you live in Tampa! The original poster lives in New York! I would be shocked if he is getting propagation from seed heads!

Patriot Services
09-22-2012, 06:02 PM
Wild bermuda doesn't know what state its in. I was born and raised in Buffalo, I remember plenty of it in summer.
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maynardGkeynes
09-22-2012, 06:37 PM
Wild bermuda doesn't know what state its in. I was born and raised in Buffalo, I remember plenty of it in summer.
Posted via Mobile DeviceDid it really survive the winter up there? Or was it dormant seed?

Patriot Services
09-22-2012, 06:38 PM
Did it survive the winter?

Of course. Goes dormant, comes back.
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maynardGkeynes
09-22-2012, 06:41 PM
Of course. Goes dormant, comes back.
Posted via Mobile DeviceInteresting, because the turf type cultivars, like Sunbird etc, basically get winter-killed even in DC. Some survives, but not much. The wild stuff must be different.