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Oakleaf landscape
09-16-2012, 10:17 PM
So i'm looking to buy a 7.3L Powerstroke. I have a 8.5x20 enclosed trailer that we pull everyday. Currently i'm getting about 9-10mpg with my Silverado 6.0 GAS. Iv found a few F350-F450s that i'm interested in.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3210187162.html

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/3208210905.html

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/3245997561.html

I like the 450 cause it's cheap and has a flat bed. (Tired of hand loading pallets) Only bad is it has 300k miles. I was thinking of just rebuilding the motor but I'm not sure how much that will be. Let me know guys. Also a budget of around 10k.

P.Services
09-16-2012, 10:21 PM
you can find lower mile f-450 crew cab dumps ( ex-brickman trucks) in the 6-10k range all day long. They are great trucks and you would be a fool to not buy a dump. The crew cab is super nice to throw tools and workers in.

Fwilamosky
09-16-2012, 10:26 PM
only problem with any truck over f-350 or 3500 is that it will require a CDL license since it will be over 10,000 gvwr at least that's how it will is in ohio. meaning a higher insurance rate, title, taxes, plates

if you're pulling that large of a trailer i wouldn't buy a gasser

Oakleaf landscape
09-18-2012, 03:10 PM
http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/cto/3265543178.html

What about that truck?

Mowingman
09-18-2012, 10:44 PM
That should be a nice truck for what you are using it for. HOWEVER, it is WAY OVERPRICED. Around here, that truck will sell for $6500 plus or minus a little. I don't know the market in your area, but it seems way overpriced for a truck that age.

mowcrazy
09-19-2012, 11:20 PM
only problem with any truck over f-350 or 3500 is that it will require a CDL license since it will be over 10,000 gvwr at least that's how it will is in ohio. meaning a higher insurance rate, title, taxes, plates

if you're pulling that large of a trailer i wouldn't buy a gasser

Are you pretty sure of this???? Im not questioning you because I think your wrong but Im in ohio and was looking at one of the npr trucks but is a 4500. I would need cdl for this truck in Ohio??

THEGOLDPRO
09-19-2012, 11:28 PM
http://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/cto/3265543178.html

What about that truck?

That trucks only a 2wd too, its way over priced for a 2wd ford.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
09-19-2012, 11:53 PM
In TX as long as your under 26k reg weight it doesn't matter what the vehicle is as long as there is no air brakes on it.

Marek
09-20-2012, 06:26 PM
If you are getting that put of your gas motor then stick with it. A 450 w/4:88 rears might get the same on a good day

Duffster
09-21-2012, 06:12 PM
only problem with any truck over f-350 or 3500 is that it will require a CDL license since it will be over 10,000 gvwr at least that's how it will is in ohio. meaning a higher insurance rate, title, taxes, plates

if you're pulling that large of a trailer i wouldn't buy a gasser

You don't need a CDL until over 26k GVWR.

Duffster
09-21-2012, 06:14 PM
In TX as long as your under 26k GVWR it doesn't matter what the vehicle is as even if it has air brakes on it.

Fixed it for you.:rolleyes:

ELS Landscape
09-21-2012, 06:15 PM
In TX as long as your under 26k reg weight it doesn't matter what the vehicle is as long as there is no air brakes on it.

I think if you are over 10,000 and pull a trailer you do but a box truck it is 26K. Kind of confusing but driving what we call a city truck is no big deal in Texas.

Duffster
09-21-2012, 09:53 PM
I think if you are over 10,000 and pull a trailer you do.

Ummmm No. :hammerhead:

jrs.landscaping
09-30-2012, 08:37 PM
Any GCWR of over 26k with the trailer being more than 10k pounds. Or a drive unit over 26k pounds requires a CDL, this is federal and not state to state. Not sure about air brakes though? I have my endorsement but I'm not sure about trucks under 26k needing the endorsement.

Duffster
09-30-2012, 11:04 PM
Not sure about air brakes though? I have my endorsement

No you don't. :hammerhead:

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 06:30 AM
No you don't. :hammerhead:

would you like to see my license?

Duffster
10-01-2012, 09:09 AM
would you like to see my license?

Yes please.

Please tell us what letter represents this none existant air brake nedorsement on your license. :rolleyes:

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 03:21 PM
Yes please.

Please tell us what letter represents this none existant air brake nedorsement on your license. :rolleyes:

You must have a class A with all endorsements considering your EXTENSIVE knowledge on the subject....:rolleyes: Oh wait, you never really answered any questions on the subject did you. Only gave some pseudo sarcastic quip about how ignorant other people are. You might be a big hit on the comic circut, but I don't understand how your post translates to actual knowledge on the subject? It only says CDL operator on my license as it does with all Maine licenses.

Mark Oomkes
10-01-2012, 04:13 PM
only problem with any truck over f-350 or 3500 is that it will require a CDL license since it will be over 10,000 gvwr at least that's how it will is in ohio. meaning a higher insurance rate, title, taxes, plates

if you're pulling that large of a trailer i wouldn't buy a gasser

Oh boy, here we go again.

Link please.

Are you pretty sure of this???? Im not questioning you because I think your wrong but Im in ohio and was looking at one of the npr trucks but is a 4500. I would need cdl for this truck in Ohio??

I'm questioning him, because he is wrong.

In TX as long as your under 26k reg weight it doesn't matter what the vehicle is as long as there is no air brakes on it.

Air brakes make no difference under 26K.

I think if you are over 10,000 and pull a trailer you do but a box truck it is 26K. Kind of confusing but driving what we call a city truck is no big deal in Texas.

I think you're wrong. Unless you're over 26K. With the truck and trailer.

Any GCWR of over 26k with the trailer being more than 10k pounds. Or a drive unit over 26k pounds requires a CDL, this is federal and not state to state. Not sure about air brakes though? I have my endorsement but I'm not sure about trucks under 26k needing the endorsement.

There is no such thing as an air brake endorsement.

Haven't we been through this before? Ad nauseum?

would you like to see my license?

I would, because I can guarantee you don't have an air brake endorsement.

cuttin-to-the-Max
10-01-2012, 04:19 PM
ODPS Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles Commercial Driver License (CDL)
Who Needs a CDL?

For Ref. Heres the link: http://bmv.ohio.gov/cdl.stm#tog

Ohio Revised Code, Section 4506.01 (D)
The classes of CDL and the commercial motor vehicles that they authorize the operation of are as follows: [ - ]

Any combination of vehicles with a combined gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds;

Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating that is not in excess of 10,000 pounds;

Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is not a class A or class B vehicle, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver;

Any school bus with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds that is designed to transport fewer than 16 passengers including the driver;

Is transporting hazardous materials for which placarding is required under subpart F of 49 C.F.R. part 172;

Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is designed to be operated and to travel on a public street or highway and is considered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to be a commercial motor vehicle, including, but not limited to, a motorized crane, a vehicle whose function is to pump cement, a rig for drilling wells, and a portable crane.

Mark Oomkes
10-01-2012, 04:28 PM
ODPS Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles Commercial Driver License (CDL)
Who Needs a CDL?

For Ref. Heres the link: http://bmv.ohio.gov/cdl.stm#tog

Ohio Revised Code, Section 4506.01 (D)
The classes of CDL and the commercial motor vehicles that they authorize the operation of are as follows: [ - ]

Any combination of vehicles with a combined gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds;

Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating that is not in excess of 10,000 pounds;

Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is not a class A or class B vehicle, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver;

Any school bus with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds that is designed to transport fewer than 16 passengers including the driver;

Is transporting hazardous materials for which placarding is required under subpart F of 49 C.F.R. part 172;

Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles that is designed to be operated and to travel on a public street or highway and is considered by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to be a commercial motor vehicle, including, but not limited to, a motorized crane, a vehicle whose function is to pump cement, a rig for drilling wells, and a portable crane.

Well that took all the fun out of the debate. ;) :drinkup:

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
Than why does Maine have an air brake section in the driving manual and a seperate test for air brake knowledge?

Mark Oomkes
10-01-2012, 04:30 PM
You must have a class A with all endorsements considering your EXTENSIVE knowledge on the subject....:rolleyes: Oh wait, you never really answered any questions on the subject did you. Only gave some pseudo sarcastic quip about how ignorant other people are. You might be a big hit on the comic circut, but I don't understand how your post translates to actual knowledge on the subject? It only says CDL operator on my license as it does with all Maine licenses.

Why don't you take the presented opportunity to prove him wrong if you don't think is right?

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 04:33 PM
Why don't you take the presented opportunity to prove him wrong if you don't think is right?

Right or wrong against what? The only comment he made was about air brakes under 26k. No where in the manual does it specify needing an endorsement for air brakes under 26k, but it also doesn't state not needing an endorsement under 26k.

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 04:46 PM
Also testing is different from state to state. In Maine you can take your test with a one ton and 7 ton trailer and then drive a tractor trailer, while in NH if you did this you would be restricted from using a trailer with a kingpin.

Duffster
10-01-2012, 05:42 PM
You must have a class A with all endorsements considering your EXTENSIVE knowledge on the subject....:rolleyes: Oh wait, you never really answered any questions on the subject did you. Only gave some pseudo sarcastic quip about how ignorant other people are. You might be a big hit on the comic circut, but I don't understand how your post translates to actual knowledge on the subject? It only says CDL operator on my license as it does with all Maine licenses.

This is a rather ironic post from you who claims to have an air brake endorsement when no such endorsement exists.

Now are you going to show your license like you offered? I'd settle for you telling what letter represents the "air brake endorsement" on your license.

Duffster
10-01-2012, 05:42 PM
Right or wrong against what? The only comment he made was about air brakes under 26k. No where in the manual does it specify needing an endorsement for air brakes under 26k, but it also doesn't state not needing an endorsement under 26k.

Tough to specify needing something that doesn't exist.

Duffster
10-01-2012, 05:44 PM
Than why does Maine have an air brake section in the driving manual and a seperate test for air brake knowledge?

You tell us?

Does it have a general knowledge section and test? How aboot cargo securement?:rolleyes:

Did you take an eye test?:rolleyes:

Duffster
10-01-2012, 05:45 PM
It only says CDL operator on my license as it does with all Maine licenses.

Really? No license class? No endorsements at all?

I have an H & N. You don't have any?

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 05:53 PM
You tell us?

Does it have a general knowledge section and test? How aboot cargo securement?:rolleyes:

Did you take an eye test?:rolleyes:

Cargo securement is section 3 in the manual and is covered under general knowledge. Section five contains air brake and is covered under a seperate test, of you failed the air brake section you are restricted for trucks/trailers using air brakes. Maybe the testing has changed since 04 when I took my test. On a side note, did your parents neglect you or something, or were you bullied in school?

CLARK LAWN
10-01-2012, 05:56 PM
And you still haven't answered the question. WHAT LETTER IS AIR BRAKE ENDORSEMENT?
Posted via Mobile Device

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 06:11 PM
Read the manual and it does not appear as an endorsement but as a restriction. So going back to the original question, if you haven't passed a knowledge exam regarding air brakes whether over or under 26k, how can you operate that vehicle legally? Is this one of those RV type rules, like where people driving tamdem axle RV's don't need a CDL?

Duffster
10-01-2012, 06:29 PM
Read the manual and it does not appear as an endorsement but as a restriction. So going back to the original question, if you haven't passed a knowledge exam regarding air brakes whether over or under 26k, how can you operate that vehicle legally?

Why would it apply to an under CDL vehicle.

Were you dropped on your head or something when you were little?

MarkO, do you suppose he thinks you need a tanker endorsment for an under CDL truck too. :laugh:

CLARK LAWN
10-01-2012, 06:40 PM
Read the manual and it does not appear as an endorsement but as a restriction. So going back to the original question, if you haven't passed a knowledge exam regarding air brakes whether over or under 26k, how can you operate that vehicle legally? Is this one of those RV type rules, like where people driving tamdem axle RV's don't need a CDL?
If it is under CDL how do you take a test that you need a CDL for?
Posted via Mobile Device

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 06:45 PM
If it is under CDL how do you take a test that you need a CDL for?
Posted via Mobile Device

My post wasn't a fact it was my opinion. 80 year olds driving RV's with two drive axles require no training, and no one regulates them. That was what I was getting at. Same with air brakes under CDL, does the driver have knowledge to pre trip the air system to make sure it is safe? Is it right in my opnion, no, but those are the rules.

Duffster
10-01-2012, 08:21 PM
My post wasn't a fact it was my opinion.

Your post posed a question.

if you haven't passed a knowledge exam regarding air brakes whether over or under 26k, how can you operate that vehicle legally?

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 08:29 PM
Your post posed a question.

..... and I do belive I answered it.

Duffster
10-01-2012, 08:56 PM
..... and I do belive I answered it.

Really? How so?

jrs.landscaping
10-01-2012, 08:58 PM
Really? How so?

Have them pass a knowledge exam of air brake systems just like people with a CDL have to do to operate air brakes. Also in regards to one of your earlier posts, an x endorsement is required if hauling more than 119 gal of a flammable liquid in a non CMV.

Duffster
10-01-2012, 10:38 PM
Have them pass a knowledge exam of air brake systems just like people with a CDL have to do to operate air brakes. Also in regards to one of your earlier posts, an x endorsement is required if hauling more than 119 gal of a flammable liquid in a non CMV.

That is another dumb statement.

CLARK LAWN
10-02-2012, 01:34 AM
[QUOTE=jrs.landscaping;4542007]Have them pass a knowledge exam of air brake systems just like people with a CDL have to do to operate air brakes. Also in regards to one of your earlier posts, an x endorsement is required if hauling more than 119 gal of a flammable liquid in a non CMV.[/QUOTE

Actually you would need a class C with the proper endorsements
Posted via Mobile Device

Mark Oomkes
10-02-2012, 07:58 AM
Read the manual and it does not appear as an endorsement but as a restriction.

Now we're getting somewhere.

So going back to the original question, if you haven't passed a knowledge exam regarding air brakes whether over or under 26k, how can you operate that vehicle legally? Is this one of those RV type rules, like where people driving tamdem axle RV's don't need a CDL?

Because, if a CDL is not required for a vehicle under 26K, you can't get an air brake restriction on something that is not required, BY LAW. Not your opinion, but the law.

Why would it apply to an under CDL vehicle.

Were you dropped on your head or something when you were little?

MarkO, do you suppose he thinks you need a tanker endorsment for an under CDL truck too. :laugh:

I'm sure he does.

My post wasn't a fact it was my opinion. 80 year olds driving RV's with two drive axles require no training, and no one regulates them. That was what I was getting at. Same with air brakes under CDL, does the driver have knowledge to pre trip the air system to make sure it is safe? Is it right in my opnion, no, but those are the rules.

Have them pass a knowledge exam of air brake systems just like people with a CDL have to do to operate air brakes. Also in regards to one of your earlier posts, an x endorsement is required if hauling more than 119 gal of a flammable liquid in a non CMV.

You do know what CDL stands for, don't you?

Specifically the "C"?

As an aside, I'd like to see an RV with air brakes and 1 axle. Heck of a balancing act.

TruSomethingOrOther
10-02-2012, 09:16 AM
only problem with any truck over f-350 or 3500 is that it will require a CDL license since it will be over 10,000 gvwr at least that's how it will is in ohio. meaning a higher insurance rate, title, taxes, plates

if you're pulling that large of a trailer i wouldn't buy a gasser

A CDL is for the use of air brakes / air suspension, and should be governed by the FMCSA (federal standards). Should not be for anything over 10kgvwr. In Illinois, anything 16,001 gvwr and over require a C license. I would call your state office for clarification on what's required.

Duffster
10-02-2012, 09:31 AM
A CDL is for the use of air brakes / air suspension, and should be governed by the FMCSA (federal standards)

OMG that is funny right there. Air suspension? :laugh:


In Illinois, anything 16,001 gvwr and over require a C license.

But not a class C CDL right? ;)

Mark Oomkes
10-02-2012, 09:43 AM
A CDL is for the use of air brakes / air suspension, and should be governed by the FMCSA (federal standards).


Haven't we gone over this already?

This statement is false.

Then, throwing air suspension into the mix makes it more humorous. Or maybe sad.

Please tell me where there is anything relating to air suspension vs spring in a CDL manual that relates to licensing.

Mark Oomkes
10-02-2012, 09:44 AM
Hey Duff, where does this stuff come from?

Air suspension? CDL? Seriously?

Duffster
10-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Hey Duff, where does this stuff come from?

Air suspension? CDL? Seriously?

Public School System? :confused:

CLARK LAWN
10-02-2012, 10:43 AM
So my buddy needs a CDL to drive his Lincoln with air suspension?
Posted via Mobile Device

Mark Oomkes
10-02-2012, 11:09 AM
So my buddy needs a CDL to drive his Lincoln with air suspension?
Posted via Mobile Device

Of course he does.

jrs.landscaping
10-02-2012, 01:18 PM
I'm pretty sure I said drive axles, you know the things that power the unit. Air suspension is completely different from what I was referring to. Also in the manual it does say that air brakes are classified as an endorsement. The only false statement I made was saying it was shown on my license, which only proves I never look at my license.

Mark Oomkes
10-02-2012, 02:13 PM
I'm pretty sure I said drive axles, you know the things that power the unit. Air suspension is completely different from what I was referring to. Also in the manual it does say that air brakes are classified as an endorsement. The only false statement I made was saying it was shown on my license, which only proves I never look at my license.

So what letter signifies the air brake endorsement?

jrs.landscaping
10-02-2012, 03:25 PM
So what letter signifies the air brake endorsement?

I'm pretty sure I answered this question, just like the other ones. In the manual it refers to it as an endorsement. Would prefer me to draw you a diagram in crayon?

Mark Oomkes
10-02-2012, 04:29 PM
I'm pretty sure I answered this question, just like the other ones. In the manual it refers to it as an endorsement. Would prefer me to draw you a diagram in crayon?

Would you?

BTW, you did state 2 drive axles, my mistake. Then again, I've never seen an RV with 2 drive axles.

I am confused, because in one post you state it is an endorsement then you state it is a restriction. It's one or the other. If it's an endorsement, it needs a letter.

Take a look at page 6 of Maine's manual. It shows 6 endorsements, none of which have anything to do with air brakes.

Or air suspension for that other guy. Still laughing about that one.

jrs.landscaping
10-02-2012, 04:42 PM
Would you?

BTW, you did state 2 drive axles, my mistake. Then again, I've never seen an RV with 2 drive axles.

I am confused, because in one post you state it is an endorsement then you state it is a restriction. It's one or the other. If it's an endorsement, it needs a letter.

Take a look at page 6 of Maine's manual. It shows 6 endorsements, none of which have anything to do with air brakes.

Or air suspension for that other guy. Still laughing about that one.

I apologize for working in wealthy communities where people like to show off their money with large RV's. Read the beginning of section 5 where it refers to it as an endorsement. If I knew how, I would scan the page and show you the wording.

Duffster
10-03-2012, 12:27 AM
So why does the amonut of drive axles on a RV matter aynway?

Still trying to figure out how you could get an X endorsement on a non CMV.

CLARK LAWN
10-03-2012, 03:11 AM
Those RVs are actually single screw with a tag axle. We have at least one a week in the shop, never seen a twin screw RV.
Posted via Mobile Device

jrs.landscaping
10-03-2012, 07:11 AM
Those RVs are actually single screw with a tag axle. We have at least one a week in the shop, never seen a twin screw RV.
Posted via Mobile Device

You are probably right about the second axle being a fixed tag. Again the point I was trying to make is whether or not the vehicle is used for intrastate or interstate commerce it still exceeds weight restrictions. I know the reasoning behind it, because no one would buy those expensive RV's and fifth wheel campers if they needed a CDL. @ Duffster, there are two exceptions to needing an endorsement without a CDL. If the vehicle hauls hazerdous material. Also the Z passenger endorsement for bus drivers.

Duffster
10-03-2012, 09:48 AM
You are probably right about the second axle being a fixed tag. Again the point I was trying to make is whether or not the vehicle is used for intrastate or interstate commerce it still exceeds weight restrictions. I know the reasoning behind it, because no one would buy those expensive RV's and fifth wheel campers if they needed a CDL. @ Duffster, there are two exceptions to needing an endorsement without a CDL. If the vehicle hauls hazerdous material. Also the Z passenger endorsement for bus drivers.

That is just idiotic. You can't get a hazmat endorsement WITHOUT a CDL. :hammerhead: Pretty much the same for the P endorsement too.

Duffster
10-04-2012, 12:07 AM
What endorsement do I need for my air ride seat? How aboot my air ride cab?

Or are they covered under a combined endorsement?

CLARK LAWN
10-04-2012, 02:20 AM
What is a Z endorsement? I have both passenger and school bus and neither one of them is a Z .

Maybe its a non CDL endorsement.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mark Oomkes
10-04-2012, 07:42 AM
What endorsement do I need for my air ride seat? How aboot my air ride cab?

Or are they covered under a combined endorsement?

Excellent question!

We forgot all aboot air ride seats.

There MUST be an endorsement for that.

Why is it that whenever these questions are asked, the guys who made the incorrect statements vanish into the ethernet and never post links proving their allegations?

jrs.landscaping
10-04-2012, 05:06 PM
What is a Z endorsement? I have both passenger and school bus and neither one of them is a Z .

Maybe its a non CDL endorsement.
Posted via Mobile Device

Z is a non CDL endorsement for transporting less than 15 passengers in a vehicle under 26k GVW. I am still confused about hazmat, it says ANY vehicle hauling hazerdous material such as a van or flatbed. Does this mean you have a class C "CDL" with hazmat endorsement?

Duffster
10-04-2012, 06:59 PM
Z is a non CDL endorsement for transporting less than 15 passengers in a vehicle under 26k GVW.

It's not for "passengers" it's for under CDL "school buses". It took me threee seconds to look that up.


I am still confused about hazmat, it says ANY vehicle hauling hazerdous material such as a van or flatbed. Does this mean you have a class C "CDL" with hazmat endorsement?
Yuuuuuuuuppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!

jrs.landscaping
10-04-2012, 07:37 PM
It's not for "passengers" it's for under CDL "school buses". It took me threee seconds to look that up.



Yuuuuuuuuppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right, but it is still an endorsement without a CDL :drinkup:

And thanks for clearing up the hazmat, I've always wondered how that worked as the book doesn't really go in depth on the topic.

Darryl G
10-20-2012, 02:17 PM
These threads always turn out this way, lol. DOT, DMV and the State Police can't even agree on the regulations where I am, so it's not suprising.

A lot of the differences in interpretation result from people not getting it straight that the regs are different for interstate and intrastate driving.

And gasoline and diesel fuel are both inflammable. I'm 100% certain of that!!!!

Duffster
10-21-2012, 08:23 AM
And gasoline and diesel fuel are both inflammable. I'm 100% certain of that!!!!

Is that why one is considered flammable. :rolleyes: