PDA

View Full Version : Dead Grass and Palms


carbpow
09-18-2012, 02:56 AM
I have a strange thing going on with sod that was put in a few months ago. Under some areca palms right where the water drips off them after a rain and also under a sea grapes where the water drips I have dead grass. It is empire zoysia if that makes any difference. It is as if there is something toxic in the leaves of the palms and sea grapes. Any ideas?

Florida Gardener
09-18-2012, 07:59 AM
Got pics?
Posted via Mobile Device

easy-lift guy
09-18-2012, 09:10 AM
Has the property in question been preasure washed recently or their neighbors property.
Post pictures.
easy-lift guy

carbpow
09-18-2012, 03:55 PM
I have NO idea how these photos will come out as I have not done this before on this website but hopefully you'll be able to see where the grass is brown under the dip line of the palms.

Landscape Poet
09-18-2012, 06:51 PM
mole cricket /grubs?

carbpow
09-18-2012, 08:04 PM
I poured a soap solution on and didn't see any critters surface. I had mole crickets right after I put it down. They were terrible as I could still lift the sod in places after 4 weeks, but I took care of them with carbaryl. The sod still hasn't rooted well where they were but this thing under the palms is strange. It started as round spots where the water dripped off the tips of the leaves and has slowly spread.

jvanvliet
09-19-2012, 06:56 AM
Round spots usually indicate Fungus.

Check for root rot (pythium) along the tree line.

easy-lift guy
09-19-2012, 07:04 AM
The pool in the back ground is a dead give away. The chlorine vapors from the pool have drifted over and onto the palms. With the morning du gravity has deposited the rest on the turf which in turn has killed the grass. Case closed.
easy-lift guy

carbpow
09-19-2012, 10:34 AM
Chlorine...makes sense, never thought of that, thanks.
Hmmm, now I am not sure which came first the chlorine vapor or the root rot because I for sure have some root rot along the tree line but since it's dead in places I guess that's normal. The round spots away from the pool may well be fungus. I have Heritage G for fungus so I may put some of that out. I've got Eagle and Honor Guard too if needed.
In places under the palms next to the pool the grass seems to be coming back SLOWLY after I trimmed the limbs back. Maybe as roots are established deeper it'll come back.

RigglePLC
09-19-2012, 08:45 PM
Sprinklers are going in the pic. Far fence is wet. Its possible that the roots of the trees have reached under the sod and pulled out the moisture during a recent hot spell. Check for roots. Check for full sprinkler coverage. However I think I see an area along the fence in the background where the strip of grass is dead, yet there is a fence and no trees. Something is odd about the pattern. In most places there is a healthy green strip of grass nearest the garden area.

Suppose a powerful grass killer was used. Or --a powerful grass killer was used in the soil of the potted plants ...used before the potted plants were purchased.

I suspect the customer applied some sort of fertilizer or chemical to control weeds or kill insects on the soil along the trees. Do the trees look healthy? Did he drain pool water here after cleaning the filter or using a powerful algicide?

Or was the area reseeded after installing the trees (reseeded with mostly rye--which died out in the summer's heat). The green spots may be zoysia and the brown, some other kind of grass.

CHUCK'SLAWN
09-19-2012, 10:16 PM
That is fungus without a doubt

carbpow
09-19-2012, 11:04 PM
I have come to the conclusion that it is not a simple problem caused by one thing. Keep in mind this is new sod put in at the last of July. No herbicide was put down prior to the installation. Shortly after the installation there was a mole cricket and chinch bug infestation. They loved the new sod and moist conditions but were quickly controlled. There was also a I think a toxic drip coming from the palms near the pool also which weakened the sod, probably wouldn't have been a problem on established grass. Weak sod and the moisture from August-Sept S. Florida tropical rain makes conditions ripe for fungus infestation. Unfortunately the rain also washes away fungicides in this sandy soil. It was treated with a granular fungicide 4 weeks ago and we'll treat again this week and see what happens.
If I had to do it over again I'd establish new sod in the spring in S. Florida when you can control the conditions a little better as far as water is concerned.

Landscape Poet
09-20-2012, 07:59 AM
I have come to the conclusion that it is not a simple problem caused by one thing. Keep in mind this is new sod put in at the last of July. No herbicide was put down prior to the installation. Shortly after the installation there was a mole cricket and chinch bug infestation. They loved the new sod and moist conditions but were quickly controlled. There was also a I think a toxic drip coming from the palms near the pool also which weakened the sod, probably wouldn't have been a problem on established grass. Weak sod and the moisture from August-Sept S. Florida tropical rain makes conditions ripe for fungus infestation. Unfortunately the rain also washes away fungicides in this sandy soil. It was treated with a granular fungicide 4 weeks ago and we'll treat again this week and see what happens.
If I had to do it over again I'd establish new sod in the spring in S. Florida when you can control the conditions a little better as far as water is concerned.

That is Florida for you lots and lots of conditions you face at anytime. Do not forget late late summer/fall period for establishing sod as well. Your pest pressure can be lower, the humidity drops, the overnight temps drop, the rain generally is not a constant flow allowing you to control moisture.

Patriot Services
09-21-2012, 07:47 PM
The pool in the back ground is a dead give away. The chlorine vapors from the pool have drifted over and onto the palms. With the morning du gravity has deposited the rest on the turf which in turn has killed the grass. Case closed.
easy-lift guy

What? Please let me know where you got this bunk info from. We service pools and many have exotic landscape right next to waterfalls and decks. They get splashed all the time with no problems. There is no vapor cloud given off by a swimming pool. If it was concentrated enough to damage plants, people would be choking. Same with pressure cleaning. We do decks and cages all the time without problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

easy-lift guy
09-21-2012, 08:24 PM
What? Please let me know where you got this bunk info from. We service pools and many have exotic landscape right next to waterfalls and decks. They get splashed all the time with no problems. There is no vapor cloud given off by a swimming pool. If it was concentrated enough to damage plants, people would be choking. Same with pressure cleaning. We do decks and cages all the time without problems.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have seen this damage first hand on properties I have maintained in the past. If you think my opinion is bunk you don't have to agree. I have also seen damage due to homes having just been pressured washed and also after several weeks. Sometimes the damage does not show up all at one time and some plants and turf types handle chlorine better than others. As stated earlier I believe the issue with the turf was caused by a number of different issues, Chlorine poisoning was a factor which had a cascading effect.
easy-lift guy

jvanvliet
09-23-2012, 07:51 PM
Round spots usually indicate Fungus.

Check for root rot (pythium) along the tree line.

I stick with my prognosis until he actually checks to roots for rot.

Round spots from Chlorine damage? Pots with herbicide in them? Maybe, but not likely.

carbpow
09-23-2012, 09:43 PM
I stick with my prognosis until he actually checks to roots for rot.

Round spots from Chlorine damage? Pots with herbicide in them? Maybe, but not likely.

Since my original post I have had a couple of guys check this problem out one of whom is a retired horticulturist. The general consensus is: root rot and a fungus from excess moisture during the period following the placing of the sod. There was no herbicide in any of the pots, ever. The pool chlorine idea they all agreed is possible but as it is a salt water pool and the chlorine maintained on the low end he didn't think it was likely, though possible. Though the photos don't show it the palms had fronds much lower to the ground right after the sod was laid and the irrigation system hit them and dripped onto the ground three times a day causing too much spot moisture. The roots rotted and a fungus developed that spread. They all noted that the sod would likely recover as new growth is being seen.
As an aside I can add that this empire zoysia is some seriously hearty stuff. I had about 20 pieces left over and threw them on some dirt I had mounded up for a later shrub bed simply because I wasn't going to send it back. No irrigation was provided but every piece survived and I will use that to fill in where needed. I've been using nothing but a commercial Palm fertilizer with 8%N on the lawn and though it's not the greenest in the world the roots seem to be strong.

jvanvliet
09-24-2012, 07:07 AM
Round spots usually indicate Fungus.

Check for root rot (pythium) along the tree line.

I stick with my prognosis until he actually checks the roots for rot.

Round spots from Chlorine damage? Pots with herbicide in them? Maybe, but not likely.

Since my original post I have had a couple of guys check this problem out one of whom is a retired horticulturist. The general consensus is: root rot and a fungus from excess moisture during the period following the placing of the sod. There was no herbicide in any of the pots, ever. The pool chlorine idea they all agreed is possible but as it is a salt water pool and the chlorine maintained on the low end he didn't think it was likely, though possible.

TADA! :cool2:

the_bug_guy
10-07-2012, 10:57 PM
The pool in the back ground is a dead give away. The chlorine vapors from the pool have drifted over and onto the palms. With the morning du gravity has deposited the rest on the turf which in turn has killed the grass. Case closed.
easy-lift guy

the biggest case of hogwash i have ever heard. Chlorine vapors!!!!! If thats the case all 300 of my customers would have this type damage. never saw it before when it wasnt grubs, mole crickets or a fungus that got into it.

If the chlorine is that high you would gag when you walked around the pool and the palms would die

easy-lift guy
10-08-2012, 09:05 AM
the biggest case of hogwash i have ever heard. Chlorine vapors!!!!! If thats the case all 300 of my customers would have this type damage. never saw it before when it wasnt grubs, mole crickets or a fungus that got into it.

If the chlorine is that high you would gag when you walked around the pool and the palms would die

I have seen this damage due to the vapor from chlorine from pools. I have not seen it for everyone of my accounts but I have seen it. There are many other factors that are in play with this issue as well. My suggestion was not the only cause for the spots on the turf, try reading some or all of the other post before you decide to pass judgement on one reply.
easy-lift guy

the_bug_guy
10-08-2012, 09:51 AM
I have seen this damage due to the vapor from chlorine from pools. I have not seen it for everyone of my accounts but I have seen it. There are many other factors that are in play with this issue as well. My suggestion was not the only cause for the spots on the turf, try reading some or all of the other post before you decide to pass judgement on one reply.
easy-lift guy

i am not trying tp pass judgement. just show me the facts where this has ever happened. If chlorine was that strong every woman that was in that pool with dyed hair would be pink, (or green) all the bathing suits would fall apart. enough bad information is passed on the internet. show me proof and i will say im sorry. till then. aint no way.
if it is fact like i said before since people load chlorine up in a pool all the time this would be a common complaint. I was a pool owner for 27 years and never had it happen here in florida.

easy-lift guy
10-08-2012, 12:18 PM
i am not trying tp pass judgement. just show me the facts where this has ever happened. If chlorine was that strong every woman that was in that pool with dyed hair would be pink, (or green) all the bathing suits would fall apart. enough bad information is passed on the internet. show me proof and i will say im sorry. till then. aint no way.
No need to apologize and I actually have no way of showing you since the palm in question at my customers place died long ago and the customer is as well. TBH, I don't really care so much since you have to be shown and that is not going to happen.
easy-lift guy




if it is fact like i said before since people load chlorine up in a pool all the time this would be a common complaint. I was a pool owner for 27 years and never had it happen here in florida.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ric
10-08-2012, 01:13 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't normally answer these WHAT'S WRONG Picture because I am not great with Picture. I like to hear and smell the area as well. But I have to agree with the_bug_guy. Chlorine isn't dripping off the palm trees and if it were The Palm Fronds would be dead also.

The acreas Add both a privacy factor and shady to a very weak turf area. plus I might be seeing a low spot in front of all the Palms as they line the fence. It is possible the turf was drown with all the Rain this year. That low strip could be holding enough water to inhibit Oxygen up take by the roots.

I am not saying I am 100% correct with my Dianosis. But I am darn sure Easily Lift is off base on this one.

.

Patriot Services
10-09-2012, 01:28 PM
Fun fact. Chlorine is a NATURALLY occurring substance. It is actually a trace element NUTRIENT for plants. That's a fact. Chlorine vapors do not collect and condense. The only time I have ever had chlorine damage was if I got careless and spilled the concentrated mix on the ground. Even then a simple wash down with fresh water prevented any burn. Pressure washing injectors use a very small amount for cleaning. Again a final rinse with fresh water eliminates any problems. This is a disease or insect problem nothing more. Telling a customer this chlorine theory is doing a disservice.:usflag:

easy-lift guy
10-09-2012, 08:28 PM
I was responding to what I believed was a problem caused by chlorine vapor produced by a near by pool. I did not tell the OP's customer what I believed his problem was. I stand by my original opinion and what I told my customer in the past. Since you were not actually at the property in question to examin the soil for insect activity or turf for disease
I will not accuse you of a disservice to the OP's customer.
easy-lift guy

Patriot Services
10-09-2012, 08:56 PM
I stated facts. I don't see where I mentioned names.
Posted via Mobile Device

Landscape Poet
10-09-2012, 10:39 PM
When all else fails....blame the pool guy!

Ric
10-09-2012, 11:34 PM
.

POOL PROBLEM TO WATCH FOR

Chlorine vapor causing problems seem very unlikely to me and after 20 years in the Green Industry I have never seen any chlorine vapor damage.

However POOL OVER FLOW can cause problems in the rain season. Pool Over has both Chlorine and Acid. Symptoms are thinning turf with a Orange hue on the Blades of the Grass. Once you realize what you are seeing it will be an automatic diagnosis the next time.

Best Cure for a Bad Pool Over Flow Problem is a French Drain connected to the Pool Over Flow outlet.

.

holmesgts
10-22-2012, 09:41 PM
Have you checked for ground pearl? I know that empire zosia is showing some resistance, however, not completely. Is ground pearl a problem in your area?