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DVS Hardscaper
09-24-2012, 06:46 PM
from pool contractor wanting a price:


"I need your subcontractor price to me. That's it. All my subs give me 30% off what they would charge the homeowner direct. The homeowner will get a contact from me for now on. Thanks"




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grandview (2006)
09-24-2012, 06:47 PM
Time for a new pool guy.

C Jovingo Landscaping
09-24-2012, 07:33 PM
What's the back story? Sounds like you looked at a landscape job for a pool install & you talked to homeowner.
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THEGOLDPRO
09-24-2012, 07:35 PM
Sounds like someone needs to get punched in the throat.

C Jovingo Landscaping
09-24-2012, 07:48 PM
Sounds like someone needs to get punched in the throat.

Same thought here!

My original post I meant hardscape not landscape.
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DVS Hardscaper
09-24-2012, 07:49 PM
What's the back story? Sounds like you looked at a landscape job for a pool install & you talked to homeowner.
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No contact with the homeowner, never saw, spoke, e-mailed, faxed, or smoke signaled with him/her/them before in my life.



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grandview (2006)
09-24-2012, 07:57 PM
You bid a 100.00 and he adds 50.00 to it and charges you 30.00 and he makes 80.00

SDLandscapes VT
09-24-2012, 08:32 PM
What is it with people expecting us to make money simply disappear--do they really think there is that much margin in these jobs??

Duekster
09-24-2012, 08:47 PM
What is it with people expecting us to make money simply disappear--do they really think there is that much margin in these jobs??Hence the punch to the throat:hammerhead:

C Jovingo Landscaping
09-24-2012, 08:50 PM
I was thinkin 30% off was alot, but didn't know what profit margin was for hardscapes. I may give an immediate family member that deal but not a ****** installing pools.

I was kinda thinkin like grandview...he wants 30% off so he can tack 30% back on for himself.
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DVS Hardscaper
09-24-2012, 09:12 PM
I was thinkin 30% off was alot, but didn't know what profit margin was for hardscapes. I may give an immediate family member that deal but not a ****** installing pools.

I was kinda thinkin like grandview...he wants 30% off so he can tack 30% back on for himself.
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I attended a Vanderkoi (sp) seminar a few years ago and we went around the room and each contractor shared their net profit on a per job basis. The average was 18 to 22% (again, per job).

And that's about where we are with our hardscapes, sometimes 25%, sometimes 30%, but most of the time 18-22%.


LOL - so this guy claiming "30%" is just hilarious!!!!! It would be cheaper for me to not do the work at all (which we're not) and take the guy golfing for a day.


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Mark Oomkes
09-24-2012, 09:14 PM
Sounds like someone needs to get punched in the throat.

Good ole Ben, so very eloquent. And to the point.

Duekster
09-24-2012, 09:20 PM
Vander Koi is a great! Everyone needs to go listen to him.

TriCountyLawn
09-24-2012, 09:30 PM
You should send him a bill for wasting your time reading and placing that in the trash can. Who would even mess with that..

knox gsl
09-24-2012, 09:33 PM
Got 2 options raise your price 30% more for him so he can have his little discount or tell him to kiss your a$$.

xtreem3d
09-25-2012, 06:38 AM
If he's the general on the job then he's the bank too. Sounds like he's trying to make sure he has positive cash flow. At one job I work at the standard mark up is 5-6%. I may have to general an irrigation system and that would be about 9-10% because I will have to outlay quite a bit of money.
Steve

alldayrj
09-25-2012, 06:53 AM
But i bet he has so much work that he can keep you busy non stop and you will make more money than ever. SARCASM
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PaperCutter
09-25-2012, 08:55 AM
Clearly someone thinks they're a baller. When I worked sales in a different industry, we'd always have big accounts sending out letters stating "in light of these challenging economic times all vendors will institute an immediate 5% price reduction or we will terminate their contracts." You'd be amazed how many companies (like the piece o' crap I worked for) would fall in line.

DVS Hardscaper
09-25-2012, 08:56 AM
There is a difference between a
Sub-contractor and a contractor. I am a contractor, who also does general contracting of small jobs.

I have a friend that owns a concrete business. He
Works for a couple home builders and he does alotta concrete work for one pool builder. My friend does not know the first thing about marketing. He does not know anything about writing a contract. he has no experience with working with the public. He has never had to sit down and design a job. All He does is report to lot number 29 and pours concrete. he doesn't even have a website, he doesn't need one.

So a bonefide sub contractor can work for much less money than a true Contractor.

This job at hand the pool company knows nothing about the logistics. I have to coordinate the materials, I have to coordinate with the home owner havin vehicles moved, and very possibly have to work with the adjacent property owner to allow us to drive our loader over a portion of their lawn. See, a true sub-contractor usually does not have to obtain materials, the GC supplies the materials.

Also, this guy is not aware of the required permit and what's involved with the county!

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PaperCutter
09-25-2012, 09:36 AM
Out west I worked for a landscape co that dealt directly with the homeowner but had to give a 10-15% kickback to the pool co. We obviously just marked our prices up by that much. It's where I learned to sell - if your pricing is that out of line with the market you better be able to close or you're going hungry.

DVS Hardscaper
09-25-2012, 09:49 AM
Out west I worked for a landscape co that dealt directly with the homeowner but had to give a 10-15% kickback to the pool co. We obviously just marked our prices up by that much. It's where I learned to sell - if your pricing is that out of line with the market you better be able to close or you're going hungry.

That was initially the arrangement. The pool company would get a kickback from me. We had a job last May and the company wanted 20%! 20% FOR WHAT? For forwarding a name, address, and phone number??! The 20% mark up blew the price out of reality. And i told them the home owner would never go for it and all we're doing is prompting the home owner to shop around. I told him it was a lose / lose.

So on this round I sent an e-mail saying we needed to talk about their commission, and I said that 15 to 20% was too much. I also said it wasn't worth my time to price because I know the home
Owner will never go for it. People are not stupid, with the Internet everyone researches everything.

We have another pool company where I just pay a flat commission, with a cap of $500 maximum. This keeps the prices in line with the market, and the pool guy is happy, I'm happy, everyone is happy.

And architects are the same way. Gotta have their hands in the pot :)

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PaperCutter
09-25-2012, 10:05 AM
And architects are the same way. Gotta have their hands in the pot :)

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Damn right! Of course, when I'm designing and coordinating a job all my contractors have to do is show up. But I'm the exception, I know :laugh:

I left that company in AZ when we moved here, but I would've quit anyhow. The way the commission split worked was 5-10% went to the owner of the pool company and 5% went to the pool sales rep. My commission from my boss was 7%. So I realized (way later than I should have) that I was working 14 hour days and busting my butt for 2% more than the guy who did nothing more than say "this is Dave, he'll be designing your landscape around your new pool." Duh.

david bailey
10-26-2012, 08:52 PM
I am a sub/contractor for a pool company here. He has never said anything to me about kickbacks or % reduction. Generally I'll charge by the hour or load and that will depend on how many guys and what equipment I need. He pisses and moans but I do a good job,have the proper ewquipment for what is asked of me,and i show up when i'm supposed to.

I ran into a similar deal when i used to do foreclosed houses. when the lady toold me how much i would make and then told me I would be giving a 15% kickback for the work I told her,um hell no