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View Full Version : Pics of the New Exmark/ Toro Commcercial Version of the Timemaster


Church2224
09-26-2012, 07:15 PM
Exmark Just posted this pic of them-

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/548843_10152136445680611_1811255731_n.jpg

I have mixed feelings, I would rather stick with the Exmark Metro 26 or the Commercial 2, which are both very popular around here.

Nate'sLawnCare
09-26-2012, 07:19 PM
Any word on when these will be available?

Church2224
09-26-2012, 07:20 PM
Any word on when these will be available?

I hear the beginning of next year.

weaver
09-26-2012, 07:25 PM
I bet it's gonna run about 2 grand or so..

Church2224
09-26-2012, 07:33 PM
http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae158/church2224/Exmark%20Commercial%2030/548843_10152136445680611_1811255731_n.jpg

weaver
09-26-2012, 07:45 PM
Hey Church, do you know anything about it? Like what size engine, does it have the timed blades?

Church2224
09-26-2012, 07:48 PM
Hey Church, do you know anything about it? Like what size engine, does it have the timed blades?

Not sure. I think it has the same engine as the Commercial 21, the Kawasaki FJ180V Kai, So probably similar power to that. As for timed blades I might have to ask my dealer next time I visit.

Nate'sLawnCare
09-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Looking at the deck configuration, I'd be willing to bet it has timed blades since they don't appear to be offset.

orangemower
09-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Hey Church, do you know anything about it? Like what size engine, does it have the timed blades?

Whenever the blades are side by side they are timed.

weaver
09-26-2012, 09:36 PM
Looking at the deck configuration, I'd be willing to bet it has timed blades since they don't appear to be offset.

It looks like an awesome mower and i like Ex but don't think i would like the timed blades if that's the case. It just seems to complicated i guess..
Posted via Mobile Device

Church2224
09-26-2012, 09:43 PM
It looks like an awesome mower and i like Ex but don't think i would like the timed blades if that's the case. It just seems to complicated i guess..
Posted via Mobile Device

It will prevent the blades from hitting each other, it will help. I might have to demo it once it comes out.

weaver
09-26-2012, 09:47 PM
It will prevent the blades from hitting each other, it will help. I might have to demo it once it comes out.

I just read some nightmare stories about the belt breaking and the blades hitting causing alot of damage..
Posted via Mobile Device

1whitetail
09-27-2012, 12:32 AM
I am not crazy about timed blades either. Off set is less problematic and the blades won't hit each other if the belt looses tension, snaps, or one of the blades hits an object.

Jimslawncareservice
09-27-2012, 01:01 AM
As long as they don't have the atomic, junky, crappy, crummy horrible blades on they should do real well, especially if they have a true mulch blade and seperate chambers.

I would like to see wider wheels on them.
Posted via Mobile Device

leon2245
09-27-2012, 01:52 AM
Nice to see this, but I'd still want something >190cc even fpr the metro 26", much less 30".

Mark Oomkes
09-27-2012, 06:19 AM
Plastic wheels?

Or do my eyes deceive me?

Ridin' Green
09-27-2012, 08:54 AM
Plastic wheels?

Or do my eyes deceive me?

They do look like the same polymer wheels they use on the commercial 21".

Ridin' Green
09-27-2012, 08:55 AM
I would like to see wider wheels on them.
Posted via Mobile Device

Same here. Maybe 3" or so. It sure would help with minimizing the wheel ruts that look like crap on a lawn, especially a nice lawn.

pugs
09-27-2012, 10:28 AM
especially if they have a true mulch blade and seperate chambers.

Separate chambers really isnt possible with a timed blade setup.

I would have to agree that the engine is going to be lacking power for that. Kawasaki needs to bring back the FC290V for that or something.

I cant really think of much for vertical shaft engines between the normal 21" mower size of like 130-190cc and the next thing up which is probably 340-390cc for the vertical Honda GX engines.

orangemower
09-27-2012, 12:31 PM
Separate chambers really isnt possible with a timed blade setup.

I would have to agree that the engine is going to be lacking power for that. Kawasaki needs to bring back the FC290V for that or something.

I cant really think of much for vertical shaft engines between the normal 21" mower size of like 130-190cc and the next thing up which is probably 340-390cc for the vertical Honda GX engines.

That's funny. Walker makes a 48in 2 blade deck for mulching. Why would this be any different?
http://www.walkermowers.com/images/decks/DML48.png

orangemower
09-27-2012, 12:43 PM
Plastic wheels?

Or do my eyes deceive me?

I think you've been deceived. LOL :laugh:

See the dude pointing at the front wheel. He's telling the people at the day-bu about the all new Exmark 30in commercial mower and how the wheels are powder coated aluminum wheels with solid rubber tires rolling on ball bearings. I think he mentioned something about how they rolled as smooth as his head.

Personally, I'd like to see them put small air filled tires on them. It would be less shock on your hands when cutting a rough bumpy lawn. :)

orangemower
09-27-2012, 12:46 PM
Separate chambers really isnt possible with a timed blade setup.

I would have to agree that the engine is going to be lacking power for that. Kawasaki needs to bring back the FC290V for that or something.

I cant really think of much for vertical shaft engines between the normal 21" mower size of like 130-190cc and the next thing up which is probably 340-390cc for the vertical Honda GX engines.

Took me a few minutes but I was incorrect. You are right that it's not possible.

weaver
09-27-2012, 03:12 PM
Well it looks like side discharge, bag and mulch.. I guess those are the mulch baffle in front of him..

Catmann
09-27-2012, 04:05 PM
That side discharge chute looks kind of small, like it would be 70% side discharge and 30% mulching when using it. Seems like it could clog up a little with tall wet grass.

JimQ
09-27-2012, 04:43 PM
http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae158/church2224/Exmark%20Commercial%2030/548843_10152136445680611_1811255731_n.jpg

Interesting side note for you guys....

While at Husqvarna, I used to work with the uhhhh "follicly challenged" :laugh: guy in the photo. Hi Jeff! :waving:

He was the Design Engineer responsible for the PZ project. He's a heck of an Engineer and a genuinely good guy. If he's in on the project, it ought to be alright.

Q

Church2224
09-27-2012, 04:49 PM
Interesting side note for you guys....

While at Husqvarna, I used to work with the uhhhh "follicly challenged" :laugh: guy in the photo. Hi Jeff! :waving:

He was the Design Engineer responsible for the PZ project. He's a heck of an Engineer and a genuinely good guy. If he's in on the project, it ought to be alright.

Q

Well that is good news. I would rather get this for some of my smaller yards rather than a 32 inch, so if this succeeds, great.

Richard Martin
09-27-2012, 05:27 PM
I just read some nightmare stories about the belt breaking and the blades hitting causing alot of damage..

I retired my Ferris 36" SD because of this. It had less than 200 hours. I could fix it for around $300 but due to the belt design, it could happen again at any time. I put an electric spreader on the front and that's all it does now. If my other 36" was destroyed or stolen I could put the SD back into service relatively quickly. I wonder how much it would cost me to put the non timed blade 32" deck on it?

KV9064
09-27-2012, 08:33 PM
Looks interesting, hope its better than the Toro havent heard much good about it. Looks built alittle heavier than the Toro

Kevin R
09-27-2012, 08:42 PM
I hope it has reverse or at least reverse asist. That would be one heavy mower to pull back when bagging

Other then that it looks like a great mower.


KR

lawnboy dan
09-27-2012, 08:45 PM
no one has asked the most important question-trans-how many speeds? i see the personal pace is gone-good! but i dont want to see a one speed thats billed as vari speed but isnt.

larryinalabama
09-27-2012, 08:45 PM
Ill just follow along, wonder if toro will make a commerical version?

weaver
09-27-2012, 09:33 PM
no one has asked the most important question-trans-how many speeds? i see the personal pace is gone-good! but i dont want to see a one speed thats billed as vari speed but isnt.

Well i think that's how there self propelled system works. If you wanna go faster pull the handle farther, slower just let up on it...


What i wanna know is PRICE$$$$ That things a beast and i think i'm wanting one and don't even need it...

Keith
09-27-2012, 11:10 PM
First, it needs a three-speed transmission similar to the Proline.

Second, it really needs a little more power than the FJ180v can deliver. It's a nice engine on a 21" mower, and I am sure it will work ok. But trying to mulch thick St Augustine is going to be a struggle. Unfortunately I don't think there is a better choice.

lawnboy dan
09-28-2012, 07:22 AM
well at least keith gets it. you cant have a slip the belt to slow up on a mower this size. it should have the toro 3 speed trans.

Kevin R
09-28-2012, 08:01 AM
Well i think that's how there self propelled system works. If you wanna go faster pull the handle farther, slower just let up on it...


What i wanna know is PRICE$$$$ That things a beast and i think i'm wanting one and don't even need it...


My thoughts exactly! :laugh:

orangemower
09-28-2012, 08:33 AM
Well i think that's how there self propelled system works. If you wanna go faster pull the handle farther, slower just let up on it...


What i wanna know is PRICE$$$$ That things a beast and i think i'm wanting one and don't even need it...

[/COLOR]


My thoughts exactly! :laugh:

You guys are like to kids looking through the window of a ice cream store. LOL

petscanning
09-29-2012, 12:30 AM
well if it was like the time master I had it mulched so fine anything with any moister would turn to paste then gum up the whole mower. I wouldnt buy one till you heard from someone cutting fescue or green weeds. Everytime I would cut as soon as I would let off the blade clutch the blades would stop and drop a 10 lb ball of grass pulp. You can keep that thing. Im lucky my dealer took it back

joed
09-29-2012, 08:00 AM
This looks like a remake of the exmark metro 26", only with a bit of a bigger deck and a side discharge chute. The 6 hp kawasaki engine isn't going to be strong enough to handle the weight of that machine. I wonder how much that thing weighs? The timemaster is about 135 lbs.

newguy123
10-19-2012, 09:28 PM
Looks pretty tough for a walk behind...I wonder how it'll stack up compared to the new Toro 30" Turfmaster.

MJB
10-20-2012, 01:22 AM
well if it was like the time master I had it mulched so fine anything with any moister would turn to paste then gum up the whole mower. I wouldnt buy one till you heard from someone cutting fescue or green weeds. Everytime I would cut as soon as I would let off the blade clutch the blades would stop and drop a 10 lb ball of grass pulp. You can keep that thing. Im lucky my dealer took it back

Seriously , you tried to mulch green weeds. I don't care what brand you mulch with , never mulch weeds they will make a mess everytime. Don't blame the mower yyou should be side discharging.

sjessen
10-20-2012, 07:56 AM
This looks like a remake of the exmark metro 26", only with a bit of a bigger deck and a side discharge chute. The 6 hp kawasaki engine isn't going to be strong enough to handle the weight of that machine. I wonder how much that thing weighs? The timemaster is about 135 lbs.

The 26" has been discontinued.

kawasaki guy
10-20-2012, 08:06 AM
Do the toro/exmark have self propel? do they have the option of a blade stop thing? do these mowers have electric start??

kawasaki guy
10-20-2012, 08:08 AM
The 26" has been discontinued.

the why is it on the exmark site still? :confused:

Manorscape
10-20-2012, 12:45 PM
That side discharge chute looks kind of small, like it would be 70% side discharge and 30% mulching when using it. Seems like it could clog up a little with tall wet grass.

The opening seems to be lined up nicely with the airflow straight across the front, like the staggered wheel lawnboys were. The machine has some potential I guess but at the price this will have to sell for, I'm not too sure.

Also, lets hope there are blade options. The Toro 30" has low lift, and no options as of yet.

Richard Martin
10-20-2012, 01:46 PM
Also, lets hope there are blade options. The Toro 30" has low lift, and no options as of yet.

The low lift is not an accident. It's low lift because the Kawasaki engine doesn't have enough ass to spin 2 high lifts, especially in thicker grass.

I don't understand why ANYBODY expects this mower to have better performance than the Toro 30" homeowner mower. It has the same exact engine, except the mower itself is heavier. Even with self propelled this thing will be a bear to operate. The only way to increase available torque to the blades (torque actually does the work, not horsepower) is to slow the blades down. When you slow the blades down the quality of cut suffers.

If they do put an electric start on it the mower will just be that much heavier.

Remember, horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is is how far you move the wall after you hit it.

stansoph
10-20-2012, 02:32 PM
I was waiting for the Toro and Ex Mark models to come out to compare them to the homeowner model to see if the differences were worth the upcharge. I was hoping that they would reengine these with a bigger engine over the HO model. I dont think the Kawisaki is much if any power increase over the standard HO Briggs engine. I personally think the Timemaster could use more power and hopefully the Kawasaki is leaps and bounds above the Briggs. The Kawa site shows the Kai at roughly the same output as the Briggs. Kinda hard to cut thick, wet grass with 2 blades and a whopping 5 hp.

Am I missing anything here?

newguy123
10-20-2012, 04:09 PM
Ill just follow along, wonder if toro will make a commerical version?

Yeah Toro has one coming out too...there's a thread on lawnsite about it. It's the Turfmaster 30" with a Kawi engine. Here's the youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5vjNWnMPo0).

larryinalabama
10-20-2012, 04:15 PM
Yeah Toro has one coming out too...there's a thread on lawnsite about it. It's the Turfmaster 30" with a Kawi engine. Here's the youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5vjNWnMPo0).

I might have to get one

Keith
10-20-2012, 04:56 PM
The FJ180v Kai engine has plenty of power for mulching thick St Augustine...on a 21" mower. At 30" it will probably work fine a lot of the year, but you will have to really slow up when trying to mulch for a few months out of the year. Discharging and bagging will probably be ok. I'm more concerned with the choice of transmission.

This engine is no slouch and this is probably the best available option for it. You end up in no man's land beyond that. There aren't any real offerings above that in a vertical engine. 6hp and 8.7 lb/ft is about as good as it can get in a sub-30lb engine. Your next step is something like a Honda GXV340 at 9hp, and it weighs over 70 lbs.

newguy123
10-20-2012, 05:56 PM
I might have to get one

You and me both Larry.

locallawncare.ca
10-22-2012, 03:37 PM
Great input from everyone, I'm in the same boat, looks great, but i dunno. I just found out about the exmark 30 commercial and now the toro, both are basically the same, but i still wonder about quality of cut, no point having a 30 inch mower if it misses a bunch of blades, then they just blow in the wind lol. Hope to hear more about them soon. Thanks.

joed
10-22-2012, 10:04 PM
I think I'll let other people try the machines out first before committing to buying them. I was one of the first people to get an exmark 26" mower when it came out in 2005 and it was a complete disaster. I paid $2 000 for it. Exmark finally agreed to let me trade in the exmark 26" for an exmark 21" metro about a year and half later. I don't want to experience that again. Both of these 30" machines look great but it just seems like it will be a retake of the 26". The 6 hp Kawi is decent on the 21" unit. How will it function on a machine that is 9" wider and a lot heavier. The 26" metro weighs about 150-160 pounds. The 30" unit might be a bit more.

lawnboy dan
10-23-2012, 08:54 AM
i am concerned more about the trans too-yet only a few have brought it up. it better not be a one speed. the kawi fj180 is the strongest motor for its size i have ever seen.

herler
10-23-2012, 10:02 AM
I can't believe the number of folks drooling all over themselves over a disposable 21" trim mower, get one of these time wasters for $200-$300 at the big box store, run it until the wheels fall off, throw it away and get another, worst thing about those cheap units is the height settings like to come undone while working it requires constant supervision but I can't see spending 1 or 2 grand for a trimmer on wheels, give me a break, they ain't worth fixing, they ain't worth fooling with, the only thing 21's are good for is where the bigger mowers can't reach and where string trimming isn't practical, other than that they are disposable units so when the transmission breaks we don't even discuss how many speeds it has, if it isn't fast enough or it doesn't want to move right I just push it myself like the name says it's a push mower, they are not heavy, you don't even need it to self-propel, and I sure as heck ain't gonna be spending no thousand plus on one and I don't care if smiley's pointing at the front plastic wheel.

lawnboy dan
10-23-2012, 05:19 PM
come here to florida and try to push a mower tru thick st aug grass at 95 deg heat. also here many have pools in back yards with gates that a big mower cant get tru because the law says all pool gates must be sefl closing/latching.

Cedar Lawn Care
02-01-2013, 11:09 PM
Some simple math shows that powering 1 21 inch blade is almost identical to powering 2 15 inch blades. I honestly don't think power will be an issue.



First, it needs a three-speed transmission similar to the Proline.

Second, it really needs a little more power than the FJ180v can deliver. It's a nice engine on a 21" mower, and I am sure it will work ok. But trying to mulch thick St Augustine is going to be a struggle. Unfortunately I don't think there is a better choice.

Richard Martin
02-02-2013, 04:33 AM
Some simple math shows that powering 1 21 inch blade is almost identical to powering 2 15 inch blades. I honestly don't think power will be an issue.

Would you can to show us the simple math? I don't need math to tell me that 2 15" blades weigh more than 1 21" blade, and are therefore, harder to get up to speed and harder to keep up to speed in thick grass, than 1 21" blade.

khutch
02-02-2013, 06:28 AM
Remember, horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is is how far you move the wall after you hit it.

Well said.................

Keith
02-02-2013, 10:31 AM
Some simple math shows that powering 1 21 inch blade is almost identical to powering 2 15 inch blades. I honestly don't think power will be an issue.


Please explain. Seems to me you are cutting 40% more grass. You now have some parasitic losses due to the blade(s) not being direct drive. And you are requiring the drive system to lug around an extra 50-60 lbs of mower weight.

One other thing I got to thinking about. The commercial 21" shows you how heavy it is when you have to pull it backwards. It's really noticeable when on a slight incline. Pulling 170 lbs is going to be even worse.

MJB
02-02-2013, 04:40 PM
I think all the naysayers should just stay with their current setup. 21 inch mowers are ok for some but not for me. Use whatever you want there is no perfect mower. Yes the larger deck may not do as well in thick wet grass but I will never use a 21 inch as long as the 30" is running. My time is valuable and I have nothing but complements on the lawns I use it on, and the time we save each week is money in the bank. Now if a lawn is over fertilized and wet and I need to cut it short then I'll get out my 60 ztr and do it to get it under control. Everyone who cuts in bad conditions where a 21 inch struggles then obviously the larger mower would only be for dry conditions if you can afford to have 1 of each its a no brainer. Just my 2 cents worth take it or leave it makes no difference to me.

JimsLocalLawn
02-02-2013, 09:12 PM
I called toro on the turfmaster, they did not have a lot of info on it. They read to me what I could easily read online. My dealer got it in for me to look at, but at twice the price ($1899) of the timemaster ($999) I need more info. Wish toro would step up and CLEARLY explain how much has changed on this vs the residential model.

Really interested in the transmission, it looks Identical to the timemaster underneath. Maybe toro can clear this up?

lawnboy dan
02-03-2013, 10:10 AM
its a one speed slip the belt to vary speed trans. wont work in commercial conditions. yes it will go fast-no it wont go slow -without you pushing it

locallawncare.ca
02-03-2013, 11:43 AM
Not sure how you came to that assumption, most commercial 21" mowers are belt-slip other than honda, they work fine, you just dont squeeze as hard, I've used commercial 21" Toro for years and never had any issue, sure the belts wear out over time, but thats what belts do. I know this machine isnt for everyone but it will have a calling when a 21" would be used, but a 32/36 walkbehind wouldnt.

Church2224
02-03-2013, 03:38 PM
its a one speed slip the belt to vary speed trans. wont work in commercial conditions. yes it will go fast-no it wont go slow -without you pushing it

My Exmark 21 s series works like that. No issues with it, great mower.

weaver
02-09-2013, 05:51 PM
I think i'm going to go to my dealers open house on Feb 26. They are an authorized dealer for Exmark. They're going to have all the new mowers for demo and a lunch catered so i figured what the heck.. Can't wait to see the new mowers...

Cedar Lawn Care
02-11-2013, 12:53 PM
The area inside of 2 15 inch circles is almost exactly the same as 1 21 inch circle. The square inch area of a 21 inch mower is 346 square inches while the square inch area of the 30 inch with dual 15's is 352 total. You probably have a point, but I feel power won't be a problem. We will find out soon!



Would you can to show us the simple math? I don't need math to tell me that 2 15" blades weigh more than 1 21" blade, and are therefore, harder to get up to speed and harder to keep up to speed in thick grass, than 1 21" blade.

Richard Martin
02-11-2013, 04:46 PM
The area inside of 2 15 inch circles is almost exactly the same as 1 21 inch circle. The square inch area of a 21 inch mower is 346 square inches while the square inch area of the 30 inch with dual 15's is 352 total. You probably have a point, but I feel power won't be a problem. We will find out soon!

It doesn't work like that. You are cutting a swath of grass 30" wide vs. 21" wide. The area behind the cutting swath has already been cut.

Busybee Lawns
02-12-2013, 01:49 AM
I have the timemaster used it last yr only!
great for summer and fall!
But this thing sucks in the spring really not enough Hp!

so looking at the commericial models there is no real change that i can ssee

a Waste of money
also shame on toro for thinking we are stupid to pay extra $1000 for a bigger gas tank!1
IMO Toro has gotton GREEDy

lawnboy dan
02-12-2013, 07:23 AM
try slipping the belt when mowing thick spongy st aug grass. or mowing hills. its a cheap way of getting around installing a real trans and toro is just taking the cheap way out

newguy123
02-12-2013, 12:52 PM
try slipping the belt when mowing thick spongy st aug grass. or mowing hills. its a cheap way of getting around installing a real trans and toro is just taking the cheap way out

What do you mean exactly by "slipping the belt?"

Valk
02-12-2013, 05:01 PM
I think he's referring to tranny belt slippage in that the mower is not being adequately propelled...esp uphill.

lawnboy dan
02-12-2013, 05:25 PM
yes the trans is one speed. to slow down you let up on the bail which slackens the belt and it slips. does this sound like sound commercial desighn?-not!

Dave0013
02-12-2013, 09:44 PM
I was looking for some reviews this evening to see what anyone else is thinking of the new commercial Toro Turfmaster 30" mower... but I'm thinking my company may be one of the first to have received them in the Dallas area. I pre-ordered two of them at $1650 each and my employees have only used them a few times due to the weather. Here's some very preliminary input based on what we've seen so far:

* Cut - It mows as smoothly as the 21" Proline and does not appear to miss strips of grass in the center of the two blades. The Turfmaster 30 offers a notably smoother cut than our Toro wide-deck midsize mowers.

* Bagging - The bag is exceptionally easy to empty. No big plastic opening door to get in the way. Just unhook it and dump the clippings in a trash bag. Virtually no shaking required even when very full.

* Mulching - So far, so good; but I really won't know until April when the grass is actively growing. The mulch plug is a lousy design. It's hard to get in and out and very bulky. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out a way to keep the large chute door closed so that the mower can be run sans the plug. The only problem is that when the chute door is closed, the bag can't be fastened in place. So I'll have to decide whether to go back to the plug (not likely) or fabricate a better design that allows the gate to stay closed and the bag to hang in place when mulching. Not a huge issue.

* Transmission - It seems to work fine with a single speed. You just feather the traction bar and allow it to slip slightly. My men have been doing the same for years with the 21" mowers instead of constantly changing the gears without incident.

* Deck - Sure seems extremely sturdy but the mower is quite heavy. This is not a mower that two people would want to lift in and out of a truck all day.

* Height adjusters - Now these are an improvement over anything Toro has ever done, in my opinion. One quick shift in the front and the same in the back changes the setting for all 4 years. I do, however, worry about the slight sag in the rear height adjustor area. There's a little too much play back there.

* Engine - Mine have the Kawasaki FJ180V motors. These are generally bullet-proof engines, but wow, the RPM's rev WAY up when the blade-brake-clutch kicks in. WAY UP! It's very loud to the point you would want to regularly wear ear plugs when using it.

* Traction Engage - I don't get the need to slide the traction bar to the right slighly before engaging the BBC and transmission. It just required a quick shift of the handle spring and a 1/2 copper sleeve to correct it and still have the mower operating with the safety features in tact.

The bottom line is I've got high hopes for these mowers. Having an employee doing nearly 50% more work (versus a 21") with a mower that takes up far less space and weight in our trailers could render lots of additional income. That's why we do this, right? We'll see how they hold up, but I think the over all design is sound.

weaver
02-12-2013, 09:50 PM
I was looking for some reviews this evening to see what anyone else is thinking of the new commercial Toro Turfmaster 30" mower... but I'm thinking my company may be one of the first to have received them in the Dallas area. I pre-ordered two of them at $1650 each and my employees have only used them a few times due to the weather. Here's some very preliminary input based on what we've seen so far:

* Cut - It mows as smoothly as the 21" Proline and does not appear to miss strips of grass in the center of the two blades. The Turfmaster 30 offers a notably smoother cut than our Toro wide-deck midsize mowers.

* Bagging - The bag is exceptionally easy to empty. No big plastic opening door to get in the way. Just unhook it and dump the clippings in a trash bag. Virtually no shaking required even when very full.

* Mulching - So far, so good; but I really won't know until April when the grass is actively growing. The mulch plug is a lousy design. It's hard to get in and out and very bulky. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out a way to keep the large chute door closed so that the mower can be run sans the plug. The only problem is that when the chute door is closed, the bag can't be fastened in place. So I'll have to decide whether to go back to the plug (not likely) or fabricate a better design that allows the gate to stay closed and the bag to hang in place when mulching. Not a huge issue.

* Transmission - It seems to work fine with a single speed. You just feather the traction bar and allow it to slip slightly. My men have been doing the same for years with the 21" mowers instead of constantly changing the gears without incident.

* Deck - Sure seems extremely sturdy but the mower is quite heavy. This is not a mower that two people would want to lift in and out of a truck all day.

* Height adjusters - Now these are an improvement over anything Toro has ever done, in my opinion. One quick shift in the front and the same in the back changes the setting for all 4 years. I do, however, worry about the slight sag in the rear height adjustor area. There's a little too much play back there.

* Engine - Mine have the Kawasaki FJ180V motors. These are generally bullet-proof engines, but wow, the RPM's rev WAY up when the blade-brake-clutch kicks in. WAY UP! It's very loud to the point you would want to regularly wear ear plugs when using it.

* Traction Engage - I don't get the need to slide the traction bar to the right slighly before engaging the BBC and transmission. It just required a quick shift of the handle spring and a 1/2 copper sleeve to correct it and still have the mower operating with the safety features in tact.

The bottom line is I've got high hopes for these mowers. Having an employee doing nearly 50% more work (versus a 21") with a mower that takes up far less space and weight in our trailers could render lots of additional income. That's why we do this, right? We'll see how they hold up, but I think the over all design is sound.

Is it worth the extra money for the commercial vs the res?
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Dave0013
02-12-2013, 10:35 PM
I've never tried the residential unit, but I do know this Kawi engine. If they hold up even half as well as on the 21" mowers, I think it will be worth having sprung for the commercial models.

H & M Yard Improvements
02-13-2013, 06:00 PM
It would be nice if these machines had caster wheels on them.

Dave0013
02-13-2013, 07:02 PM
I would definitely agree with that. But the balance is good on them for making a turn. I would estimate 20-25 pounds of downward force is all it takes to lift the front wheels as high as necessary. Hard to believe, right?

locallawncare.ca
02-13-2013, 07:22 PM
Thanks Dave0013 for the valued input, keep it coming, we are all hungry for information. I live in Canada and can't use one until April and can't purchase until March. Thanks again for your valued and honest opinion.

zachj265
02-17-2013, 06:25 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

joed
02-17-2013, 07:57 PM
I would definitely agree with that. But the balance is good on them for making a turn. I would estimate 20-25 pounds of downward force is all it takes to lift the front wheels as high as necessary. Hard to believe, right?

Thank you for the great review Dave. I am thinking of purchasing one of these units but am unsure. I know it's not spring yet but have you noticed any rutting due to the weight of the machine? I bought one of the first exmark metro 26" units in 2005 and I had a big issue with rutting due to the weight of the machine along with numerous other mechanical issues and a lack of horsepower that rendered the machine useless when mulching. I'm not sure if this current machine will fair any better.

Dave0013
02-17-2013, 09:02 PM
Thank you for the great review Dave. I am thinking of purchasing one of these units but am unsure. I know it's not spring yet but have you noticed any rutting due to the weight of the machine? I bought one of the first exmark metro 26" units in 2005 and I had a big issue with rutting due to the weight of the machine along with numerous other mechanical issues and a lack of horsepower that rendered the machine useless when mulching. I'm not sure if this current machine will fair any better.

I wondered about that potential issue, too, Joe. My guys have used the mowers already in some relatively wet soil conditions with no problems. In fact, we gave them a try for some leaf cleanup on a new 3/4 acre lawn that we sodded just a month ago. So this was a notably "spongey" yard that I didn't want our big, heavy midsize mowers run on just yet.

The new Turfmasters did great. Again, I have to give Toro credit for the balance. The front tires are 2"x8"... but have very little weight on them. The heavy portion sets on the rear 3"x10" tires and I guess that extra size is just what it takes to spread the weight and prevent rutting.

After a few weeks of use and the minor modifications I mentioned earlier, the only problem I've noticed so far is some belt "flapping" on one of the units. It sounds like a simple adjustment issue so I haven't looked into it yet. There are an awful lot of springs in the drive and cutting systems of these mowers, so it's sure to be a learning curve. I still need to address the mulch plug bypass idea I have because the plug is simply not designed well (although it does seem to be effective so far).

I have an ironically similar story to yours on the issues with the Metro 26" mower. My dealer - bless his soul - talked me out of them because of several concerns he had about the design. A buddy of mine bought two - convinced they were the next great mower - and sold them halfway through the season since they didn't cut well and were always in for repair. With the Turfmaster 30's, my instincts tell me that 9-10 HP would be ideal and that the high rpm's will surely shorten the life of the Kawasaki FJ180V's. But then again, these same Kawi's will easily go 4 years commercially with virtually no loss of compression. So if they even last 2 years on the Turfmasters, it should still be a very good ROI for nearly 50% greater cutting width. I'm crossing my fingers and think the first 6 months of use will be very telling.

MJB
02-17-2013, 11:02 PM
I took 1 look at the Metro 26" when they came out and ran from them.
They were junk, the weight alone scared me off. When I bought the Timemaster I knew it would work but still have a lot of sceptics out there.
The Turfmaster is a no brainer for the money. Im not sure how so many who bought the Metro 26 think the Turfmaster is under powered or to heavy.
The Timemaster only weighs 130lbs the Turfmaster can't be much more.

Dave0013
02-17-2013, 11:29 PM
According to Toro's website, the commercial Turfmaster weighs 167 pounds (assuming I'm allowed to post this link) :
http://www.toro.com/en-us/Professional-Contractor/Mowers/TurfMaster-30-Walk-Behind/Pages/Model.aspx?pid=Turfmaster-22200

Clearly, the heavy duty commercial components have added some weight versus the homeowner model, but I'm guessing that's still about half of what a 32" wide deck mower tips the scale at. By comparison, I think the 21" commercial mowers are around 120 pounds or so. I would also estimate that two Toro midsize mowers parked end-to-end would be about equal to three of Turfmasters in the same alignment. That could be a big deal for anyone towing shorter trailers.