Exmark or Scag ?

[tye]

Am looking to purchase Exmark laser or Scag turf tiger. Nearest Exmark dealer is 40 miles and nearest Scag dealer is 15 miles. Downtime is important as I'm a one person company. Would appreciate thoughts from those of you who have experience with these mowers as I have read good things about both of these mowers. I'm looking for something in the 25-27 hp range for these mowers with 60" or 61" decks.

[mklawnman]

Do a search and type in what your thread is titled but add ZTR rider's. I've been on this site for two years now there is TONS of talk about this topic. Search and have some fun :)
I have a 52inch Turf Tiger, no downtime at all, but it has the 23Kaw liquid so its small for you, the 23 and 27Kaw are great engines so stick with them and LC models.
Matt

[J&R]

I have Exmark 60" lazer with 23 hp k, and Scag 61' turf Tiger 27hp water cooled k. The Exmark is the mower i like the best.

[NC Big Daddy]

We have both................I dont think you'll go wrong with either.

[G. Moose]

We've had experience with both......I favor the Scag. They seem to be built tougher, and I think they are available with bigger engines. Ours has a 27 hp Kaw liquid cooled, and we've had no regrets. With a 61" deck it has no power problems. For Scag's 2003 lineup, you may want to look into their new 29hpKaw. It has liquid cooling and fuel injection- much better economy. I don't think Kohler makes anything bigger than 25 and they don't offer liquid cooling. But I 'm not totally sure. :cool:

[TurfGuyTX]

Same as above. Both are good mowers. I favor Scag. Good luck.

[John Gamba]

Heres What I Use!

[John Gamba]

G Moose
Go Into www.kohlerengines.com You Will Be Amazed At Who came Out with Fuel Injection On Mowers.
Happy New Year
Johnny G.

[grassdaddy]

Hey john-do the boys in red give ya a big kick-back for that great advertising??;) ;)

[sunrise]

I have had both and the Exmark is my pick
but the scag is better then walking

[Shuter]

Demo both machines to see which works better for you. A 25 mile difference for service may not be that much if you like that machine better.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Hey John, next time I will hold one side while you hold the other side.:D

[John Gamba]

Grassdaddy happy new Year! Nope On Kick-Back Just a banner. LGF It would Be a Pleasure to have you Aboard Next Year On The Golden Princess. I Took This Picture from a Glass bottom Boat In St Marteen It gives Me and idea For Next year. You Can hold the Banner's other side Under water(Nobody Will Top us For Years).
John.

[walker-talker]

Originally posted by John Gamba
Heres What I Use!

My eyesight must be going....I thought that was a chic holding a beach towel. Must be here reading too much and eyes going blurry...anyone else ever have that problem???

MATT

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by John Gamba
Grassdaddy happy new Year! Nope On Kick-Back Just a banner. LGF It would Be a Pleasure to have you Aboard Next Year On The Golden Princess. I Took This Picture from a Glass bottom Boat In St Marteen It gives Me and idea For Next year. You Can hold the Banner's other side Under water(Nobody Will Top us For Years).
John.

Count me in. Make sure you contact me with the details.

[MacLawnCo]

you two should try to carry on your z's:p

[John Gamba]

Mike
The OnlyThing Different Will Be A hustler Banner. the Mower or the rider will Fit on the ship. but It wount Fit Into The boat To get Us To The island. I had Thought Of That but Luckily I didn't Go Threw That for those ungratefull Little _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .

Will let you Know the details on trip. Lets See how Many we Can get aboard In December. it holds 2500 People.
John.

[John Gamba]

LGF
Heres One Of The Pools!

[MustProLawn]

I've used both, had three 25 hp kohlers with 61" Turf Tigers, now im using lazer 60" with 23 hp. the Exmarks are lighter and cut better . The Scags are good but I believe the Exmarks are better. I do think that the next Emark I purchase will be the 27 hp. Kawi . I also perfer the fuel set up on the Exmark . The openings on the tanks are larger and the seat isn't in the way like on the Scags. Had the scags for about 2 1/2 years with fair results, thurs far the Exmarks have had zero problems. The Exmarks are only a few month old and im very pleased thus far . I dont expect too many problems .... I saved about 1500.00 per machine and if they were the same price I would still go with the Exmark.

[John Gamba]

You Should Try the hustler They Do cut faster than The Lazer. dont Get Into the hype like I did.
john

[SLS]

"Where No Mower Has Gone Before!"

SLS has attached this 'far out' image:

http://hifiparty.home.att.net/moon.gif


Exmark "hung the moon" in my book! :D

[John Gamba]

SLS
You should change It to SUPER Z Hustler!
Oh I do have a Perfect Strait Picture of The Banner Let Me Get It for you.
John

[o-so-n-so]

Tye,
I have Exmark Lazer Z with 25hp Kohler pro, 60" cut with large bagging system and also mulching kit. I like it. It was my first ZTR and the change over was great and profitable.
To give sound advise IMO. The only reason I bought Exmark over Scag is,
Exmark dealer 10 miles away, Scag dealer 40 miles away. It has already proven to be a wise choice, as you said, downtime can hurt a one man operation.

Hope this helps your situation.

[John Gamba]

Try The Hustler Super z It's better in thin Or Heat stressed Grass. No More Double cutting In those conditions.
SLS For what It Is worth here It Is. I have deleted all the others.
John. happy New year.

[Expert Lawns]

eXmark............can't beat it with a wet noodle.

[Darb]

Easy... Hustler.

[matitude]

We leased 4, 60" deck 26 h.p. fuel injected lazers last season each machine recieved between 750-1000 hours during the year and the only problem we had was a bad spindle.

[David Gretzmier]

Ok - let's talk durability- exmark, super z,skag who's got the most hours vs # of breakdowns- I am going to be buying a good midmount similar to what everyone is talking about here, I love the hustler super z, but open to suggestions... Dav eg

[SLS]

John Gamba:

Got it! Thanks for the 'straight banner'...I fixed the pic with it. :D


David G:

I have a 2001 Exmark Lazer Z (23 Kaw w/ 60" deck). It has 985 hours on it and the only thing I have had to replace on it is the mule drive belt @ about 450 hours.

[David Gretzmier]

sweet. would you buy another?

[SLS]

Yep! Bought a 2002 TTHP w/ECS (15 Kaw w/36" deck) back in the spring.

Couldn't be happier.

My next Z will be a Lazer Z.



It doesn't hurt that my local Exmark dealer is good as gold...and The Exmark guys that answer the posts in the Exmark Forum here at Lawnsite are always on the ball being as helpful as they can. :)

[David Gretzmier]

Our laserz ( 22 horse kaw liquid and 52"deck) has a rough ride compared to the hustler super z you mentioned. has this been a problem for you? DAveg

[Husker1982]

The exmark cuts nicer but the scag is heavier built. I gaurantee this to anyone who owns either. If you have seen an exmark tore apart, and a scag and seen each piece and compared you would never buy an exmark again!

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Husker1982
The exmark cuts nicer but the scag is heavier built. I gaurantee this to anyone who owns either. If you have seen an exmark tore apart, and a scag and seen each piece and compared you would never buy an exmark again!

When was the last time you saw a beat to sh@t Exmark?

NEVER!!!!

Heavier built does not always means it's better, just stress has to find another place to break.

Your garuntee is worthless.

Oh yeah "Nothing Runs Like a Deere!" means it's worth less and built even less than the Exmark. JD is not a front runner in the commercial mowing market, they need to stick with the tractors.

Also atleast Exmark , and even Scag did not have to go out and "buy" mowers from other mfg's to have their commercial line.

Stick with your Deeres'

[lee b]

LGF, have you read the posting guidelines about bashing equipment that you have not personally owned or operated? I have had very good performance out of my Deere z. Each of us have our own preference when it comes to our mowers, we can help others with our experiences, good or bad, by truthfully explaining what we see as relevant points about the machines we use. But if you don't have experience with a certain machine, such as the Deere z, then you're wasting good bandwidth.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Did you read the one above mine?

Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
Exmark , and even Scag did not have to go out and "buy" mowers from other mfg's to have their commercial line.

Bet you didn't know you're using a Kees or a Great Dane?

Stammed decks are more likely to bend and warp over the welded.

You want my resume?

Toro Owned several, great discharge but didn't chop clippings up. Good stripe. Good cut

JD "7iron" demoed for a week, took back with a bent deck.

Lesco own still ok mower. clumped, I fixed that problem.

Encore own still lived their life, but wouldn't recomend to anyone. Great stripe.

Scag had a demo just ok. discharged good striped ok, left stringers.

Kees, Best of the copies Husy and Deere use. Had one for a month. Lazer copy, but decnt mower with the Kees deck.

DC above avg, need double blades to run. Own 2 had 3 some time ago.

Ransome never buy again Great cut n strip, clumped, hard on the palm of you hands, even harder on it with a velke.

Bunton never buy the new ransomes copies Old bunton were "the bomb."

Ferris strong, ok cut, over built, at time under powered, discharge of slipping below avg. Great cut n strip clumped. down hills was an advanture, hard on your forearms.

Cushman Prior to Ransome Textron great for a front mount with vac. Great cut better, with the '89 factory double blades.

Exmark.......No complaints.

Hustler has something going one but nothing around here.

Shall I keep going.



My opinon only see for your self.

[Husker1982]

Don't talk too much cause deere did start by having kee's and gd make thier product for the M series, but the 2002 models are now being made only by deere in a deere factory. Besides I have exmark mowers and use to run them so i can talk on them. I never said they were a bad mower. I didn't mean to bother you about my statement but you should be more educated before you speak of something. I am sure that you just like any other know it all who has been doing this for years, but you shouldn't run down deere for buying other equipment when the ones you are using might not be based behind what you think. For instance scag's build comes from lesco's design even though scag makes it them selves, and exmarks design comes from toro design. Just thought you would like to know, and if you don't believe me then **** off. Then you made a comment on how deere should stick to tractors. Ask your self this were do you think the design of commercial mowers are based from. You posted a resume! What is that who f****** cares what you have owned. Your use does nothing for majority. So like I said know what you are talking about before you speak.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Husker1982
you should be more educated before you speak of something.

I guess you need an education.....

Scag is in no relation to Lesco. Sorry dude, they look nothing alike.

Lesco is MTD commercial.

Exmarks desing comes from Toro, you got that back wards.

Get the stuff straight next time.

Toro bought Exmark to have a ZTR. Similar to what Deere did with GD.


Ghee why don't you tell me why Toro's are looking more like Exmarks more n more.

Open your mouth insert your foot.

Aint got time for your pissin match.

[Husker1982]

I know that you are not serious about what you said and if you are you are truly mistaken. I think you might need to do some research cause scag purchased patents from LESCO who is now an independent business for the design of thier NEW LINE! Yes Toro did buy Exmark but not to have a ZTR. That is a joke. Then you said Exmarks design is from Toro, and then went on to say that Toro bought Exmark to have a ZTR? What sense does that make? Also to educate the student some more JD never bought GD so that is not similar to Toro buying Exmark. lol. So I guess you need not preach to me about me needing an education. But like I said you are a know it all!

[LAWNGODFATHER]

First you need to leard to read.

Exmarks desing comes from Toro, you got that back wards.

Since you can't read no sence in debating.

[65hoss]

Husker, you are wrong. Your making it worse every time you attempt to "teach us".

[Husker1982]

Husker, you are wrong. Your making it worse every time you attempt to "teach us".

us? Glad you could join. Sorry huss but there is no attempt to anything.

Exmarks desing comes from Toro, you got that back wards

Sorry LGF I stand corrected thought you were trying to say it one way and then another. So I do apologize for that. But you believe what you want cause as far as a debate goes there isn't one. I started by saying what I have seen and done as far as Exmark and Scag are concerned to answer someone (not Huss or LGF) who posted. You are the one who made a point to target me so don't act like I wanted a pissin match!

[LAWNGODFATHER]

That would be "HOSS" not huss.

Also you around about said Exmarks are built weak which they are not.

If you have seen an exmark tore apart, and a scag and seen each piece and compared you would never buy an exmark again!

I guess you need to look better.

I've seen many of the MFG parts, overbuilt does not mean better.

Buy a new frame or buy a caster yoke.

Buy a new deck or buy a new spindle.

I'll take the cheaper of them to replace.

BTW never heard of a frame break on an Exmark but several Scags I have. Do a search on here for more about it.

My old Deere started right up after sitting for 15 years and 3 floods. But that's a Kohler for ya, don't think it had to do with Deere.

[Husker1982]

Fooled about what?

[Husker1982]

I didn't in a round about way mean that exmark is weak.
I use to run all exmark equipment and loved them but they are not built as good as a scag that is all i am saying. Not saying that it is weak. Exmark is a nice unit just not as strong as a scag, but to you i guess that means that JD sucks and so does everything else and Exmark is the best. Have a question for ya
do you work on your own units and what do you have?

[Turf Dancer]

Actually John Deere did acquire Great Dane the Deal was made public the end of December 2000 ! That is a fact !

[John Gamba]

I Have Had Very few problems with any Exmark product. And the 2002 Lazers And Turf tracers Are Awesome. The Only real Problems Are In The Heat stressed Bluegrass You have to cut twice. In The Spring grass More Moister And thicker you put double High lifts on And You get that Unbeliveble Cut. I Had tryed Scag I Was very Disappointed With the results. My Dealer Sells Both So It Is easyer For Me To comapare. I Am going to try hustler Because They Have a Different Way of Doing there Flow Control Baffle That Might Be Better In Thin grass. And hustler Isent as Arrogant As Exmarks Become. Hope this helps.

Mike watch Your blood Presure It's a *****!!

John Gamba :angel:

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Husker1982
Have a question for ya
do you work on your own units and what do you have?

Exmarks ZTR's and WB's

Dixies

Lesco WB's

Encore WB's

I do all repairs I can, empls. does the maint.

Ned a full time mechanic, tired of working on stuff. Mowers hardly break down, but other stuff does.

[matitude]

Been with exmark for awhile now, used to use JD but nobody liked em.

14 lazers all 60"
4 lazer hps 52"
8 turf tracers 52",60"
14 metros 36"

[David Gretzmier]

It never ceases to amaze me who runs what company now. land pride is hustler z, toro is exmark or vice versa, lesco is skag, or is it encore?, john deere is great dane, dane copied stander, or was it the other way around? kees got bought by yazoo, and simplicity owns kirby vacuum cleaners. Woods used to be a grasshopper, toros were made by dixie chopper, and bush hog is made by woods, ( i think) , ferris looks original, but I'm not sure, and John deere is trying to catch up. Here's what I do know:

Skag's frame breaks, alot- I've seen it on 2 out of 3 skags, but that only amounts to a couple of dozen.

my exmark lazer z (700 hours) doesn't break much, but man it's cut is horrible. If I have to double blade or finaggle it to do well, it wasn't right in the first place. the ride is horrible, and my employees moan if they have to uses that compared to the hustler, speedwise and quality.

The hustler super z ( 500 ) and walkbehinds (400-600) I own run great, but I only have about 500 hours on each. the true colors will be this year and the next.

every grasshopper I owned was ready for the graveyard at 1000 hours.

I need a mower this spring and this thread does not help unless people post thier hours, repairs, quality of cut and ride. arguing who made what is wasteful.

Daveg

[Husker1982]

arguing who made what is wasteful

Very good point! Just to help you from my point:

2001 Exmark Laser EPS - 800 hrs, good cut but I am seeing lots of fatigue. (I personally had lots of early probs with mine, NOT saying they all are like this, but I did have a couple of others who have them have some early probs with them.

2002 John Deere 757 (54 inch cut) - 450 hrs, good cut, GREAT ride. I have not had a problem with this one at all.

2002 John Deere 757 (60 inch cut) - 550 hrs, good cut, GREAT ride. Had one problem with a pulley on this one but that was it.

2001 John Deere HD45 (48 inch cut) - 200 hrs, good cut, tiring compared to Exmark but think that it has just a slight better cut. Have not had any problems.

2001 Lesco WB (54 inch cut) - 110 hrs, pretty good cut, think that it is behind both deere and exmark alittle. tiring as well as the deere is. haven't had any problems here but don't really run it that much either.

Would really like to here from others as well.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Husker1982

Would really like to here from others as well.

Search been posted to many times.

[Sam-Ohio]

[1] The Scag has an adjustable baffle in the deck that lets it mow better in different conditions, and also controls blowout much better than Exmark decks do

[2] Controls are where you can see them on Scag, not behind your legs

[3] Scag Front wheel arm brakets easily repaired or replaced - impossible on Exmark - Also front wheels have Timken tappered bearings, Exmark is much lighter ball bearings

[4] Much more leg room and better seating position for tall person on Scag. Exmark has very short leg room - not as good for tall drivers

[5] deck lift pedal works easier and is better positioned on Scag.

[6] Heavy cast iron spindle housings and Timken tapered bearings on Scag mower, Exmark uses a thin wall aluminum housing and ball bearings which will not hold up as reliably as Scag.

[7] Scag has single 10 gal fuel tank low down in the center of the frame, Exmark twin tanks set up high and to the outside of the unit. so no switching necessary to use the fuel. The weight is much lower and hillside handling is improved on the Scag. The extra protection of the plastic fuel tank is safer on the Scag. The Scag has a fuel guage in its single large fuel tank, that has an oversize 4 inch diam. fuel cap.

[8] Scag has cooling radiator for the Hydro fluid - and can use standard 20w 50 oil in the hydros. Exmark has no cooling and a small tank so must use synthetic oil to survive. This under engineered system puts extra heat stress on all the rubber components [o-rings + hoses] and is just a real cheap way for them , to make the drive system.

[9] Scags hydro pumps are 60% bigger than Exmarks, and run cooler with less stress.

[10] Scag has a flip down rear door that allows direct access to hydro drive and pto belt - much easier to work on or change belt than on Exmark.

[11] If you get a water cooled engine, Scag has the radiator much better positioned and protected than does Exmark.

[12] Finally don't even pretend that PTO drive belt that twists 90 deg. around double idler pulleys in the rear and then has to power the Exmark mower is anything but an engineering mistake. The twisting and turning belt and idlers use up at least 3 to 4 horsepower and seriously shorten the life of this long belt. The Scag, with its drive shaft just never has any breakage and is much more efficient at transmitting the power to the mower. The shaft has universals at both ends and the shaft is at no stress whether clear up or all the way down. The Exmark PTO belt is only lined up with its mower pulley when it is in the center of its cutting height. Move the mower up or down and the belt starts into the pulley slot at an off angle - this uses more horsepower and just kills the belt.

[13] Anyone that says that the newest Exmark Deck will mow one whit better than the new Scag deck with its adjustable height baffles - or stripe better is not not able to level their deck properly or is just full of bull.

[14] well now that I got that rant off my chest - anybody want pie ?

[fatboy5803]

I have a scag 36" w/b, I was making the the same choice. I narrowed it down to these two. then the scag dealer got a practicly new trade in. I got a good deal is why scag was it over the xmark... I'm sure if I'd gotten the xmark I'd be just as happy.
Either one you choose I'm sure will be a good choice..:confused:


Good Luck

Lou

[Doh!]

i was wondering if anyone had any opinions on scag's advantage deck vs. the "old style". I currently run 2 scag 52's with the older model decks and new engines. I am going to keep one for versatility and replace the other with a ztr. I like scag's wb, but their ztr looks like a lead sled.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Sam-Ohio I have seen more crap that broke from Scag than Exmark.

I guess to some one those might be valid claims but they are all and everone of them irelivent.

Never the less Ford vrs Chevy vrs Dodge.

Do you want a solid axel or independant.

Not all mowers mow the same, that is why Exmark is leading the pack.

[Sam-Ohio]

Actually Scag is the largest selling single brand of professional/commercial mowers.

Exmark produces more machines than Scag does - but they are sold under the Toro name, and the Exmark name - and their market advantage comes from the huge number of dealers they have to distribute the product.

I think that Toro/Exmark has done a terrific job of marketing their products, and they are very focused on their customers, and they have been able to assemble a really good group of dealers. More than anything else - this is the reason for their position in the market.

Take a real thorough look at a KEES brand "Z" rider. In fact park your Exmark right next to a Kees. It's a direct copy of your Exmark ! It sells for a much lower price. Yet, Kees only sells a small fraction of the numbers that Exmark does. Why is this ? - It all has to do with marketing- with dealer service- with factory support for those dealers, and even with sponsoring this web site and having someone from the factory answer your questions here. I guess marketing works ! After all , you own an Exmark - not a Kees.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

What do you run Mr Scag Dealer man?

There are a lot of things the "kees" mower does not have that the Exmark does, otherwise there would be some patent enfringments to name a few.

[yardman1]

I like my SCAGS:rolleyes:

[bad_chad48]

I am about to buy another Scag Turf Tiger 61" 27Kawasaki. By the way... I like scag too.

[John Gamba]

Chad48
try The New 29HPFI Kaw. Thats The Turf Tiger I'm Going To try This spring. Also i'm trying the Super Z FI Kohler.
John

[mowerconsultant]

Originally posted by Sam-Ohio
Actually Scag is the largest selling single brand of professional/commercial mowers.

Where is this shown or written ?
I would like to see some facts.
I have a hard time believing that they are still # 1 with all the popular brands out there.
I am not saying there not, I would just like to see where it says they are.

Later
Pj

[mklawnman]

This again, all the arguing about which mower is better, now this is a good ole' thread :D
Scag "Simply the best"
Now I will take the Scag side on this one, though I have personally seen a Scag pretty well damaged after being thrown off of a trailer in accident. The Turf Tiger was at the dealer and boy it was pretty well bent up, fender and rim was all bent and I am sure the frame was twisted too though that can happen on any mower if it got into accident on trailer from being thrown.
When they built the Turf Tiger they thought that the double tube frame would hold up more than the frames that are bolted together such as the Kee's and Toro's? That was a big thing my dealer told me when we bought our Turf Tiger about the double tube frame that went all the way to the back of the machine.
Each mower has a feature that the other may not, just like in car's and trucks, all still cut grass and lay a nice looking stripe. Every mower has their draw backs and such, but up where I live in my area I mostly see Scag mowers on trailers, could just be because their is only one main dealer in this area but who knows.
Matt

[Oliver1850]

I can't believe I got dragged into this!

I run a 2001 Laser 52" and a 2002 Scag Tigercub 52". They are both excellent machines and each has it's advantages.

Problem wise, I have had some with the Exmark, (spindle and clutch) whereas I have had none with the Scag.

The ride and handling is much better on the Scag.

Maintenance points on the Scag are way more accessible.

Part for part, the Scag is the hands down winner

....and with cut quality you're splitting hairs