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View Full Version : Hustler Super Z - problems with model


greenology
10-04-2012, 05:52 AM
Hi, just wanted to start a thread about Hustler SuperZ mowers. I recently bought one of these after having ten years in the industry... I have been extremely disappointed by the product - would definitely not recommend it for a quality product.
The main problems are:
extremely rough ride which makes the deck bounce like mad, in this case then the cut is not smooth as when the deck slams down it creates scalping and crop circles - not a good look when you are trying to provide professional lawn cutting. Have had the mechanics re-set the deck, replace forks, etc. Terrible ride - wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking for something decent that will produce a quality job. Apparently this is not just my model either, this is just how all of them are. I plan to put up a video on youtube to get the word out there as I feel they are selling something that doesn't live up to the quality they are selling it at.

Second problem is that due to the forward and back jerking you are left with nausea and whiplash feelings even after a couple of hours use. :dizzy:
In turn, you can't use it for its fast speed as there is no way you would cope going over fairly smooth terrain with all the bouncing and jerking!

I have been to the ends of the earth in trying to get this problem resolved as I would have not thought spending quality money on a commercial mower like this to expect to be buy such junk.
I don't what other people out there think, but it certainly doesn't ride like a thoroughbred as it says in its adverts.
Stay clear - choose another brand over this one and you won't be disappointed! :nono:

Mickhippy
10-04-2012, 06:16 AM
Did you get my text msg? All I can suggest is slowing down. I know it defeats the purpose of a fast mower.

Maybe add some weight to the deck. Another thought is getting some shorter and or weaker springs. The deck itself if heavy as so it has to be spring tension issue.

You'll have to let me know how the discharge goes when the grass is thickens up and some damp. Im sure youve seen my posts and pics on here already.

I look forward to the vid.

greenology
10-04-2012, 07:07 AM
Hey Mickhippy, Yes i agree with regards to the spring tension, I told the dealer the springs had to be wrong but they maintain that they are the correct springs. If I end up having to keep the mower I will put some smaller springs on there for sure and that will likely help the problem a lot if not entirely. However at this point I cant continue using the mower until the rough jerkyness is dramitically improved, maybe my lawns are a lot worse than the normal however im comparing from other brand mowers i have owned and used in the past and have never experienced this.

With the grass clumping issue, my other zero turn a dixon, it had a similar issue whereby the grass flap was laying too low so the grass would hit the flap and be deflected straight onto the lawn in a trail, rather than dispersing out evenly. So I resorted to always having the flap lifted up, which isnt safe and made even more dusty than normal but had to do to get and even dispersion of clippings. I guess you have tried this already though? sorry havnt looked through your post as yet, was javing trouble registering yest, but managed to get signed up tonight. will have a look.

greenology
10-04-2012, 07:28 AM
I see your post now, the problem is with the deck flap as u suggest, so hopefully hustler will listen and redesign!

Maybe in the mean time you could try raising the flap just slightly, to prevent 100 % of the grass hitting the flap but still low enough so it doesnt become dangerous. I drilled a neat hole and put through a bolt with an eye hook on one end, with large washers to prevent tearing the flat from the hole. then hook a rubber or ocky strap through the eye hole and use this to raise it slightly, or a rope which owuldnt have any flex in it.

Realslowww
10-06-2012, 11:20 PM
All this is interesting,I talked with a guy around 3 months ago who bought a new super 60 37 and he said the same thing. He claimed the new hydro system was way to touchy and the mower rode like a tank. Puppy say's his 72 is great with the flex forks.

I demoed one lightly today for 5 minutes and I noticed the demo had flex forks on it and that tells me maybe the new chasses is over built and needs some flex? My 72 XR7 model rides grest stock and I noticed today a stiffness about the mower chasses but with the flex forks it seemed ok but I did not like the bounce of the front end.

When you run at high speeds over rough ground a little flex in the chasses makes a machine much more compliant,just not a mower any machine.

So when I see a demo Super with flex forks that tells me they may be trying to hide a problem with the ride? the mower is built great but it may be over built.

Honda found this out in 1997 when they redesigned the CR 250 and made the chasses to stiff for moto X. World champion Jeremy Mcgrawth told Honda to stick it up the butt and he immediately signed with Suzuki because of it.

It is not your imagination at all,if a machine is to stiff when you are going at a good clip it will beat the crap out of you. 15 MPH is a good clip!

Maybe air tires in front?

I am real interested in this because I am interested in one,all dealers who sell these along with multiple other brands say it is on paper the best quality designed Z ever but they are not using them on a daily basis.

Mickhippy
10-07-2012, 02:25 AM
I agree that the chassis is stiffer than last design. Floor pan/footrest is further out by a few inches there by making the caster arms shorter. Seems that way anyway. I haven't measured it.
I bet it's a rough ride without the flex forks!

That said, I'm sure there are other machines out there with stiffer designs. Look at the Scags for example.
Posted via Mobile Device

greenology
10-07-2012, 02:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqVfxG_sQdk
managed to take some footage of the roughness that I am describing... what do you think?

greenology
10-07-2012, 03:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siqDRqunRWE&feature=share&list=ULsiqDRqunRWE

greenology
10-07-2012, 04:20 AM
All this is interesting,I talked with a guy around 3 months ago who bought a new super 60 37 and he said the same thing. He claimed the new hydro system was way to touchy and the mower rode like a tank. Puppy say's his 72 is great with the flex forks.

I demoed one lightly today for 5 minutes and I noticed the demo had flex forks on it and that tells me maybe the new chasses is over built and needs some flex? My 72 XR7 model rides grest stock and I noticed today a stiffness about the mower chasses but with the flex forks it seemed ok but I did not like the bounce of the front end.

When you run at high speeds over rough ground a little flex in the chasses makes a machine much more compliant,just not a mower any machine.

So when I see a demo Super with flex forks that tells me they may be trying to hide a problem with the ride? the mower is built great but it may be over built.

Honda found this out in 1997 when they redesigned the CR 250 and made the chasses to stiff for moto X. World champion Jeremy Mcgrawth told Honda to stick it up the butt and he immediately signed with Suzuki because of it.

It is not your imagination at all,if a machine is to stiff when you are going at a good clip it will beat the crap out of you. 15 MPH is a good clip!

Maybe air tires in front?

I am real interested in this because I am interested in one,all dealers who sell these along with multiple other brands say it is on paper the best quality designed Z ever but they are not using them on a daily basis.


This is reassuring to hear that there are some others, even if they are far and few between, who have felt the bad ride im getting.

Very good point, that these dealers arent using the mowers daily and yet they claim to know everything about how well they ride and cut and everything else. My opinion of the mower has been formed by mowing for 700hrs on zero turns, then getting on this super Z and cutting most of the same lawns i did those 700hrs on and all of a sudden am experiencing nausea which I have never had before from a zero turn. As well as a rough cut, high spots and scalping from the deck raising off the turf & banging back down.

Im not sure if they have ever claimed that this machine is capable of cutting grass well at 15mph but i have tried this on smooth lawns and its not a suitable cut, lots of glass blades and stringy weeds left behind.

greenology
10-07-2012, 05:16 AM
http://youtu.be/F8BoZSz888c
this is another clip of how constant the deck is at bouncing over small bumps...creating scalps.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 05:46 AM
I agree that the chassis is stiffer than last design. Floor pan/footrest is further out by a few inches there by making the caster arms shorter. Seems that way anyway. I haven't measured it.
I bet it's a rough ride without the flex forks!

That said, I'm sure there are other machines out there with stiffer designs. Look at the Scags for example.
Posted via Mobile Device I had a Scag, nice mower but rode like a tank at 10 MPH. Making a mower that can cut and ride good at 15 MPH is no easy task. Like I stated, when I go to a dealer and do a demo and it has flex forks on it that is not a good sign.

Added weight always screws handling up,specially at high speeds.In something that moves fast weight is your enemy period. Just look at a semi.

Have people tried pneumatic front tired?

greenology
10-07-2012, 06:24 AM
Scag was the other mower I was tossing up on, it was between scag and hustler, chose hustler as it seemed to be the strongest of the two and offered the 37 hp.

Do you recal whether the scag was rough at slower speeds? say 5 MPH. This hustler is rough at all speeds, in fact if you go slow enough you can actually feel the bumps even more than going a little quicker you skip over them a little better. I have put 15hrs on the mower so far and havent been able to find a speed or particular style of mowing which is not overly rough. Im sure if I go 1-3 kph I would not feel the bumps but this is un-realistic for cutting 3-4, 5 acre blocks per day.

pneaumatic tires may be worth a try, they may soak up the uneven terrain before sending the shock through the chassis. But i dont want to throw any money at it, if the dealer are prepared to do this that would be ok, the mechanic tried a set of standard non flex forks on it and didnt think there was a noticable difference in the ride. I would have liked to try myself. But really I dont have time to be sourcing the parts etc needed for this, Its coming into busy season and I just want to get on with work and making money out of the $18000 investment.

Mickhippy
10-07-2012, 07:18 AM
Ok, watched the vids and heres a couple of points...
That yard is super rutted. Just because a machine can travel/mow at X speed doesnt mean you can do it at that speed. You have to work to the conditions!

Dont ever sit with your back up against the seat back unless its super smooth. The rocking motion of the machine gets transferred into the body. Commonly know as "back slap." I miss the flex seat for precisely that problem!
The part of the vid with your miss's jumping out of the seat was a classic!

The hydros on the SZ are really strong and sensitive. Trying to get up to speed quickly, especially over ruts will for sure make the front end light and or jump. Looked like ( as your going over the ruts,) its making you push/pull the levers. Basically, you know where the rough spots are, slow down over those areas. I have one property in particular that I can go flat out but near the end of the run there is a deep rut caused by a ute. I know I need to slow down or Id get thrown out of the seat!

The deck bounce looks like a problem but I wonder if the springs have been tensioned off enough. Could even try taking them off completely but it will make the deck pretty damned heavy. That said, deck bounce is caused by rough ground and trying to go faster than you should. Youve gone from a much smaller, way less powerful and much slower machine onto arguably the most hard core machine out the. Theres going to be a learning curve! The wheel base of the SZ is different to what your used to and you need to take that into account. The wheels are going to find high/low spots you didnt feel before.
I agree that the deck can be light and bounce but Id rather have that than my knee getting screwed up more, caused by 2 previous model SZ's with cr@p leverage on a heavy deck.

How long have you been mowing that property? I bet if you mowed it on a 30 or 45 degree angle the ride would be sweet or at least MUCH better! Give it a try! You wouldnt be hitting those ruts square on and thats whats causing you most of the problem!

Im just trying to be straight up with you mate. At the end of the day, going off those vids, I dont think its the machine. I think you need to adjust your methods or fill the ruts. Like I said, just because the mower can go 15mph, doesnt mean you can mow at those speeds.

greenology
10-07-2012, 07:36 AM
Hey Mick, thanks for your input.

I agree it could look quite terrible that lawn, but the reality is this mower does the same thing on all my lawns at some point, off coarse it will only do it where there are bumps and when there are bumps it does this. I have tried mowing at slow speeds, tried mowing without my back against the back rest, I still get the same thing. I have been mowing on that particular lawn for over 2 yrs now and tried different angles on it but due to the undulations if I mow in any other direction it scalps the lawn fromt he different direction.

Its not specific to the hydros either as I think I have mentioned before that I have tried riing over bumps without my hands on the levers and it makes no difference, I have also tried with just my fingers on levers but doesnt change the ride. So if its the hyrdos influencing the jerkyness, then its not due to my hands... I have had a mower in the past that was jerky on concrete from hyrdos so i know all about that.

I must stress to you, I am not cutting at 15MPH I never do!! On this lawn I would be cutting at less than half speed most of the time, but as I say the jerkynes is there at all speeds!

greenology
10-07-2012, 07:42 AM
I could always cut with my back against the backrest with my previous zero turns. in saying that i have tried cutting without my back against the seat rest, but the mower still moves in the same fashion and the movement is still transferred through my body from my ass up.

I have spent 15 hours cutting with this machine, the more hours I spend on it the rougher it feels and the worse its getting.

The videos are a little dramatic, which was deliberate so i could make sure its showing up for film, but seriously i have tried everything on all different lawns & I am only getting more and more re-assured that the mower is not right.

greenology
10-07-2012, 08:07 AM
Mickhippy, when your riding over the rough terrain, do you feel the forward to back motion in your upper body? without your back against back rest. Or are you only feeling up and down movement over the ruts?

With the idea of removing the springs from the deck, I have thought of this and would like to try it if its not a big job to remove them, I havnt had a good look at it but is it a matter of just removing the tensioner nuts and then sliding the springs off? I will have a look tomorrow at that.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 08:37 AM
Scag was the other mower I was tossing up on, it was between scag and hustler, chose hustler as it seemed to be the strongest of the two and offered the 37 hp.

Do you recal whether the scag was rough at slower speeds? say 5 MPH. This hustler is rough at all speeds, in fact if you go slow enough you can actually feel the bumps even more than going a little quicker you skip over them a little better. I have put 15hrs on the mower so far and havent been able to find a speed or particular style of mowing which is not overly rough. Im sure if I go 1-3 kph I would not feel the bumps but this is un-realistic for cutting 3-4, 5 acre blocks per day.

pneaumatic tires may be worth a try, they may soak up the uneven terrain before sending the shock through the chassis. But i dont want to throw any money at it, if the dealer are prepared to do this that would be ok, the mechanic tried a set of standard non flex forks on it and didnt think there was a noticable difference in the ride. I would have liked to try myself. But really I dont have time to be sourcing the parts etc needed for this, Its coming into busy season and I just want to get on with work and making money out of the $18000 investment.

The Scag TT is a rough riding mower,the Scag Cheetah is supposed to ride like a Caddy as well as the new Gravely are supposed to ride better than the old Super Z. Here in FL where I am my Super stock you can just give it the sticks and it is plush.

Have you tried lower tire pressure ? for sure try to find some air tires just to try,it only takes 10 minutes or less to swap. You may need flex forks.

You should try and work with the mower,every dealer has told me as far as quality it is in a class by itself and hustler really is good about warranty work.

What other z's have you owned?

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 08:38 AM
Ok, watched the vids and heres a couple of points...
That yard is super rutted. Just because a machine can travel/mow at X speed doesnt mean you can do it at that speed. You have to work to the conditions!

Dont ever sit with your back up against the seat back unless its super smooth. The rocking motion of the machine gets transferred into the body. Commonly know as "back slap." I miss the flex seat for precisely that problem!
The part of the vid with your miss's jumping out of the seat was a classic!

The hydros on the SZ are really strong and sensitive. Trying to get up to speed quickly, especially over ruts will for sure make the front end light and or jump. Looked like ( as your going over the ruts,) its making you push/pull the levers. Basically, you know where the rough spots are, slow down over those areas. I have one property in particular that I can go flat out but near the end of the run there is a deep rut caused by a ute. I know I need to slow down or Id get thrown out of the seat!

The deck bounce looks like a problem but I wonder if the springs have been tensioned off enough. Could even try taking them off completely but it will make the deck pretty damned heavy. That said, deck bounce is caused by rough ground and trying to go faster than you should. Youve gone from a much smaller, way less powerful and much slower machine onto arguably the most hard core machine out the. Theres going to be a learning curve! The wheel base of the SZ is different to what your used to and you need to take that into account. The wheels are going to find high/low spots you didnt feel before.
I agree that the deck can be light and bounce but Id rather have that than my knee getting screwed up more, caused by 2 previous model SZ's with cr@p leverage on a heavy deck.

How long have you been mowing that property? I bet if you mowed it on a 30 or 45 degree angle the ride would be sweet or at least MUCH better! Give it a try! You wouldnt be hitting those ruts square on and thats whats causing you most of the problem!

Im just trying to be straight up with you mate. At the end of the day, going off those vids, I dont think its the machine. I think you need to adjust your methods or fill the ruts. Like I said, just because the mower can go 15mph, doesnt mean you can mow at those speeds.

Did you get you cutting issues sorted out?

Mickhippy
10-07-2012, 08:45 AM
Did you get you cutting issues sorted out?

Just out of Winter, straight into a drought. Wont know if its sorted until we get some rain. Im sure its better but I dont think its fixed.

greenology
10-07-2012, 08:48 AM
Hmm so the scag tt is also rough, the cheetah was the model I was considering. Starting to sound like all larger sized machines are rough? I have not used machines larger than 52" before, those machines have all been like driving in a car in comparison to the super Z. I have owned a 2005 dixon and a 2010 dixon, also used a ferris non-suspension, john deere zero turn, the ferris was 61" cut and quite good, only had the up and down movement, no front to back jerking.

I have put tires down to 8 psi in rear, didnt help at all unfortunately.

I would only be losing out by trying to sell this hustler and going for another machine, but at the end of the day it may be necessary for health issues. I cant understand why im the only one with such an issue, my lawns must all have a lot of rough sections compared to others, but in saying that im comparing it all from 4 yrs and 700hrs of zero turn mowing.

The hustler suits me perfectly with the strength, the power, but problem lies with the apparent speed. The biggest reason for me upgrading was to increase my productivity, however the rough ride of this machine has forced me to use it quite slow, therefor I am not getting through lawns any quicker than my old small machine.

GMLC
10-07-2012, 08:49 AM
Good video's, thanks. Those are typical NH lawns. When people on LS say they mow above 10-12 mph I always think the lawns have to be smoother than ours.

I would suggest demoing the new Gravely 400 series with air seat and rubber isolated platforms. In my opinion its the best riding machine in the industry and the only reason I can go 10 mph+ in NH. You wont be disapointed.
Posted via Mobile Device

GMLC
10-07-2012, 08:55 AM
Here is a video of my Gravely Pro-Turn 452 on a typical rough NH lawn. Its noticably smoother than the Super Z in your vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw7u6vDT5Co

greenology
10-07-2012, 08:58 AM
http://youtu.be/iYZtByjeg9E

without back on back rest

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 09:48 AM
Hmm so the scag tt is also rough, the cheetah was the model I was considering. Starting to sound like all larger sized machines are rough? I have not used machines larger than 52" before, those machines have all been like driving in a car in comparison to the super Z. I have owned a 2005 dixon and a 2010 dixon, also used a ferris non-suspension, john deere zero turn, the ferris was 61" cut and quite good, only had the up and down movement, no front to back jerking.

I have put tires down to 8 psi in rear, didnt help at all unfortunately.

I would only be losing out by trying to sell this hustler and going for another machine, but at the end of the day it may be necessary for health issues. I cant understand why im the only one with such an issue, my lawns must all have a lot of rough sections compared to others, but in saying that im comparing it all from 4 yrs and 700hrs of zero turn mowing.

The hustler suits me perfectly with the strength, the power, but problem lies with the apparent speed. The biggest reason for me upgrading was to increase my productivity, however the rough ride of this machine has forced me to use it quite slow, therefor I am not getting through lawns any quicker than my old small machine. No I have heard the new Super rides bad stock, As stated the 400 series Gravely or Cheetah, my Supers are 15 MPH nice ride stock in most all conditions here. The old super in it's day was considered by most the best ride at the time without getting into suspension.

A lighter z will always be more nible and agile,weight is your enemy overall.

puppypaws
10-07-2012, 10:00 AM
http://youtu.be/iYZtByjeg9E

without back on back rest

My friend, your problem is coming from a washboard property in this video, believe me this is not rocket science, anyone looking (as Mick did) at the mowers movement knows this property is extremely rough. The washboard affect would not come into play as much if the peaks and valleys were not so close together. Mow up and down (parallel) to the ridges your mower is bouncing across, and it will be totally different. When you watch the mower and see that the flex forks do not have time to activate properly because of the high and low places being so close together. This means no ztr will ride good in that scenario, a fully independent suspension such as the one Ferris uses will by far give the best ride in a situation of that type, but nothing will be great.

Go into my post and find where I used a new IS3100 Ferris and compared it against my Super Z with the flex forks and flex seat. You will see where I talked about the washboard affect, such as you have in the video, and how the fully independent Ferris suspension does make a difference in this type situation.

I own and operate a new 35/72 Super Z, and have one area I could make the mower do the same as yours in the video, so what that means to me is I know I must slow down for the mower and flex forks to operate as designed.

I honestly can't believe you have not figured this out, and yes, I run both my Super Z mowers at full stick the largest majority of the time I'm cutting grass, but there are places such as in this video where I must slow down.

Mickhippy
10-07-2012, 10:11 AM
Mickhippy, when your riding over the rough terrain, do you feel the forward to back motion in your upper body? without your back against back rest. Or are you only feeling up and down movement over the ruts?

With the idea of removing the springs from the deck, I have thought of this and would like to try it if its not a big job to remove them, I havnt had a good look at it but is it a matter of just removing the tensioner nuts and then sliding the springs off? I will have a look tomorrow at that.

Only time I have issues with movement is on this lawn... http://youtu.be/XjR5pDmJHXY You can tell by the camera shake how rough this place is and Im going very slowly. Millions of ant nests!
I can rarely sit back in the chair on any lawn. Maybe Ive just learnt how to move with the motion!!! lol

Try adjusting the back rest for more angle away from your back.

Im not really sure whats involved with taking the springs off. I personally wouldnt do it. Id adjust what ever I could before going down that road and theres a reason for them. That said, I would assume taking them off would be a real pain. No doubt it would mess up the deck level etc so is something I would get the dealer to look at. Levelling an SZ deck is no fun at all!

TLS
10-07-2012, 10:11 AM
OK...

I've never videotaped myself or others mowing before, so I don't know how I or others look while mowing.

I watched all of your videos...

That being said, your culprit is that when you bounce (or your lady), your bouncing your arms and jerking the sticks back and forth. This is then jerking the machine more and then your hit the next bump and jerking it back. If you were to ViseGrip the levers still (do NOT try this, but imagine it) your ride would be smoother.

I drove your exact machine on two separate occasions, about a year apart. Both demo periods were multiple day. Go back and search under my username. The first demo, it was brand new....never cut a blade of grass. It had standard forks and those same run-flats that all the new ones did.

My main complaint was the stiff riding run-flats.

The next season, I demo'd it again. This time the dealer installed a set of flex forks. It was a totally different machine. Rode great. Way better than my older rigid forked, air tired, flex seat XR-7 SuperZ.

I did notice the absence of the flex seat that I was so used to, but I was able to go faster and ride smoother with this new machine with flex forks.

Couple of things...

Both demo periods, the mowers came to me with 20psi in the rear tires (which may be what is posted on the sidewall of the tire). Both times I aired them down to 10psi, as 8-10 is the Hustler recommended pressure.

As for the deck bounce...

Hustler re-engineered the geometry of the lift mechanism on this new SuperZ. They lift a LOT easier then the older models did. This new deck is heavy, and to counter that they made the springs do a lot of the work. You look to be cutting low (under 3"). I would re-adjust the spring tension as at your lower cutting heights, the spring is almost FULLY compressed and giving you almost all it's upward pushing power. Loosen them up to where your comfortable with the leg pressure needed and the bounce to almost go away.

And lastly... slow down! Or get some smoother lawns. I'd bet that if your other mowers could do 15mph, that you'd ride just as rough!

Any other mower with similar wheelbase and 1.5"x3" frame rails will ride exactly the same. Your rear suspension is your rear tires after all.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 02:35 PM
He claims even going slower his older mowers run smoother.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 02:40 PM
OK...

I've never videotaped myself or others mowing before, so I don't know how I or others look while mowing.

I watched all of your videos...

That being said, your culprit is that when you bounce (or your lady), your bouncing your arms and jerking the sticks back and forth. This is then jerking the machine more and then your hit the next bump and jerking it back. If you were to ViseGrip the levers still (do NOT try this, but imagine it) your ride would be smoother.

I drove your exact machine on two separate occasions, about a year apart. Both demo periods were multiple day. Go back and search under my username. The first demo, it was brand new....never cut a blade of grass. It had standard forks and those same run-flats that all the new ones did.

My main complaint was the stiff riding run-flats.

The next season, I demo'd it again. This time the dealer installed a set of flex forks. It was a totally different machine. Rode great. Way better than my older rigid forked, air tired, flex seat XR-7 SuperZ.

I did notice the absence of the flex seat that I was so used to, but I was able to go faster and ride smoother with this new machine with flex forks.

Couple of things...

Both demo periods, the mowers came to me with 20psi in the rear tires (which may be what is posted on the sidewall of the tire). Both times I aired them down to 10psi, as 8-10 is the Hustler recommended pressure.

As for the deck bounce...

Hustler re-engineered the geometry of the lift mechanism on this new SuperZ. They lift a LOT easier then the older models did. This new deck is heavy, and to counter that they made the springs do a lot of the work. You look to be cutting low (under 3"). I would re-adjust the spring tension as at your lower cutting heights, the spring is almost FULLY compressed and giving you almost all it's upward pushing power. Loosen them up to where your comfortable with the leg pressure needed and the bounce to almost go away.

And lastly... slow down! Or get some smoother lawns. I'd bet that if your other mowers could do 15mph, that you'd ride just as rough!

Any other mower with similar wheelbase and 1.5"x3" frame rails will ride exactly the same. Your rear suspension is your rear tires after all. TLS I know the newer mower is a good bit better but how much do you think a BB engine would help the older XR7 Z's. I tried a 60 XR7 with a 31 850 and the hydros responsiveness worked alot better from a small ride.

What do you like about the older model compared to the new one or vice versa because a guy locally complained to me about the new Super as well but it was stock ?, he traded his XR7 on it and said it was a mistake because of the deck chatter like in the video.

TLS
10-07-2012, 02:41 PM
There is nothing special about a SuperZ that makes them ride rough. A frame is a frame, and tires and in his case, flex forks are the suspension.

TLS
10-07-2012, 02:44 PM
Only things I don't like about the new ones are the smaller fuel tanks and the boxed in rear discharge corner of the deck.

It is by far the best, strongest built ZTR on the market. They were very close with the XR-7 era. They fixed what was wrong, but then went backwards with the fuel tanks.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 02:46 PM
There is nothing special about a SuperZ that makes them ride rough. A frame is a frame, and tires and in his case, flex forks are the suspension.some designs at speed ride better than others,take like my old Exmark and Turf Tiger they rode rough. The non air tires are alot of it?

GMLC
10-07-2012, 02:47 PM
What really stinks is almost all properties in NH are like the ones in the videos. I would love to feel what 15mph feels like on a mower!! It must be a rush!!!

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 02:49 PM
Only things I don't like about the new ones are the smaller fuel tanks and the boxed in rear discharge corner of the deck.

It is by far the best, strongest built ZTR on the market. They were very close with the XR-7 era. They fixed what was wrong, but then went backwards with the fuel tanks. Every dealer has told me the same, that it is by far the finest Z on the market build wise. I wonder why they are trying to blow them out now?, I wonder if the 2013 will be fuel injected? oh and I do not like the added weight for doing steep grades that is not good.

TLS
10-07-2012, 02:52 PM
I use the speed on only a handful of properties. Mainly to zip from backyard to front, or to go from trailer to grass. That being said, on past demo's of slower mowers, I found myself bottoming the sticks out on the stops and wanting more speed.

Also, the latest generation of flex forks are definitely stiffer then Version 1.0 of the 2006 era. With the machines being heavier themselves, I guess it was mandatory. My biggest complaint with the older versions were the crop circles from them being too bouncy when coming to a stop. Now they're perfect, and if Hustler ever decides to offer EFI and bigger fuel tanks, I would most definitely go with the flex-forks.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 02:56 PM
I use the speed on only a handful of properties. Mainly to zip from backyard to front, or to go from trailer to grass. That being said, on past demo's of slower mowers, I found myself bottoming the sticks out on the stops and wanting more speed.

Also, the latest generation of flex forks are definitely stiffer then Version 1.0 of the 2006 era. With the machines being heavier themselves, I guess it was mandatory. My biggest complaint with the older versions were the crop circles from them being too bouncy when coming to a stop. Now they're perfect, and if Hustler ever decides to offer EFI and bigger fuel tanks, I would most definitely go with the flex-forks.

yaa that big 37 would be alot better with EFI,fuel savings alone would be thousands over the life of the mower.

How much in speculation do you think a BB would help the XR7 mowers?

TLS
10-07-2012, 02:57 PM
The extra weight is welcomed by me for hills. Hills and extra weight where you need it are your best friends!

They likely over produced. This economy has forced many (including myself), to patch and nurse older equipment. In the past, I'd be 2 years into a new mower already! I'm closing up it's 6th season. Next year will break my record for keeping a mower 7 years.

TLS
10-07-2012, 02:58 PM
A BB would help, but I'd be concerned about my fragile hydro system. I cant trust it with a weak low torque 28EFI!

Ridin' Green
10-07-2012, 03:03 PM
I watched all the videos. IMO, one thing that would help would be to stiffen up the suspension seat a bit. It appears to be set very soft to help the ride, but what it is actually doing is bouncing and bucking in reaction to every single bump, large or small. Make the seats suspension have to soak up some of the bump before it starts moving/flexing. Make sure your air gauge is working correctly, because to me it also looks like the rears are still over-inflated like they come from the factory for shipping purposes.

Last. Just because it is a stout machine with suspension seat and flex forks, and is supposed to go 15 MPH, doesn't meant that all that will automatically make it ride smoother than everything else out there. Rough ground is rough ground no matter what your one, and even the best suspension system out right now will still buck some.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 03:06 PM
The extra weight is welcomed by me for hills. Hills and extra weight where you need it are your best friends!

They likely over produced. This economy has forced many (including myself), to patch and nurse older equipment. In the past, I'd be 2 years into a new mower already! I'm closing up it's 6th season. Next year will break my record for keeping a mower 7 years.

No you are right about the economy,that is the only reason I have not gotten a new Z. Yaa a BB might be to much for the XR7 drive.

What is the deal about getting a break if you have a government contract when buying a hustler?

puppypaws
10-07-2012, 03:23 PM
I watched all the videos. IMO, one thing that would help would be to stiffen up the suspension seat a bit. It appears to be set very soft to help the ride, but what it is actually doing is bouncing and bucking in reaction to every single bump, large or small. Make the seats suspension have to soak up some of the bump before it starts moving/flexing. Make sure your air gauge is working correctly, because to me it also looks like the rears are still over-inflated like they come from the factory for shipping purposes.

Last. Just because it is a stout machine with suspension seat and flex forks, and is supposed to go 15 MPH, doesn't meant that all that will automatically make it ride smoother than everything else out there. Rough ground is rough ground no matter what your one, and even the best suspension system out right now will still buck some.

This is very true, and there are places you must slow down, not that I like to, but it is necessary if you care to stay in the seat. There is also a difference in rough ground with bumps here and there, compared to this washboard ground he is cutting in the video. I run run wide open and take a pretty good bump in stride because of allowing the mower to smooth out before hitting the next rough spot. The washboard affect never gives your mower time to level out, it hits one high spot, goes down, and then immediately goes up on the next high spot. This would give you the ride that is showing in the video, one comparable of riding a bucking horse.

Realslowww
10-07-2012, 03:31 PM
This is very true, and there are places you must slow down, not that I like to, but it is necessary if you care to stay in the seat. There is also a difference in rough ground with bumps here and there, compared to this washboard ground he is cutting in the video. I run run wide open and take a pretty good bump in stride because of allowing the mower to smooth out before hitting the next rough spot. The washboard affect never gives your mower time to level out, it hits one high spot, goes down, and then immediately goes up on the next high spot. This would give you the ride that is showing in the video, one comparable of riding a bucking horse. Hey Puppy do you know anything about the pricing break if you have government contracts?

greenology
10-07-2012, 04:11 PM
I watched all the videos. IMO, one thing that would help would be to stiffen up the suspension seat a bit. It appears to be set very soft to help the ride, but what it is actually doing is bouncing and bucking in reaction to every single bump, large or small. Make the seats suspension have to soak up some of the bump before it starts moving/flexing. Make sure your air gauge is working correctly, because to me it also looks like the rears are still over-inflated like they come from the factory for shipping purposes.

Last. Just because it is a stout machine with suspension seat and flex forks, and is supposed to go 15 MPH, doesn't meant that all that will automatically make it ride smoother than everything else out there. Rough ground is rough ground no matter what your one, and even the best suspension system out right now will still buck some.


The suspension seat is set as stiff as it goes in this video, I think its 130kg. I have tried all different settings on the seat. The tires have been down to 8 PSI, It didnt help at all as I have said. The dealer are the ones who put the pressure back up after I put them down.

I dont know why you guys think I am cutting at 15 MPH, I should do a video of me cuttign at 15 MPH just to show you guys how slow im actually going in comparison.

You guys all keep saying this lawn is very rough. I have been cutting on this lawn for over 2 yrs and my previous zero turns I could run flat out 13 KPH over all these bumps WITHOUT any problem whatsoever. the old one had no flex forks, no seat suspension. I assure you they did NOT buck and bull like this machine does. I cant go 3 KPH over all the bumps I encounter or I will be out there all day to complete just 1 lawn.


This machine is very rough either accross the board, or there is something specific with my build that is yet to be identified.

Im sure this is not as simple as me being a complete idiot who cant figure out how to operate a new zero turn correctly, as you all seem to be suggesting.

That aside, I do appreciate peoples input, I assure you all that every time I take the machine out I am trying to ride it in a way that doesnt cause the jerking in my body, its something I definately want to avoid! accept in those videos I was happy for it to do it all the time to show whats happening, therefor they are very dramatic.

TLS
10-07-2012, 04:52 PM
The only rigid frame mower that may cut with a better ride would be a 72" classic Lazer. The long front caster arms were small (1.5x2" IIRC) and long and did flex quite well.

Only thing I could suggest is to try another set of Flex-Forks. Maybe these are just too stiff?
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
10-07-2012, 05:23 PM
The suspension seat is set as stiff as it goes in this video, I think its 130kg. I have tried all different settings on the seat. The tires have been down to 8 PSI, It didnt help at all as I have said. The dealer are the ones who put the pressure back up after I put them down.

I dont know why you guys think I am cutting at 15 MPH, I should do a video of me cuttign at 15 MPH just to show you guys how slow im actually going in comparison.

You guys all keep saying this lawn is very rough. I have been cutting on this lawn for over 2 yrs and my previous zero turns I could run flat out 13 KPH over all these bumps WITHOUT any problem whatsoever. the old one had no flex forks, no seat suspension. I assure you they did NOT buck and bull like this machine does. I cant go 3 KPH over all the bumps I encounter or I will be out there all day to complete just 1 lawn.


This machine is very rough either accross the board, or there is something specific with my build that is yet to be identified.

Im sure this is not as simple as me being a complete idiot who cant figure out how to operate a new zero turn correctly, as you all seem to be suggesting.

That aside, I do appreciate peoples input, I assure you all that every time I take the machine out I am trying to ride it in a way that doesnt cause the jerking in my body, its something I definately want to avoid! accept in those videos I was happy for it to do it all the time to show whats happening, therefor they are very dramatic.

Well, unless the female in the video is waaaay heavier than she appears to be, the seat couldn't have been set at the top for her there. She wouldn't have had enough body weight to get the seat to bounce and buckle on every single bump like it does in your video.

I don't think you are getting what we are saying either. I don't believe many, if anyone have said they thought you were going/mowing 15 MPH. I know I didn't say that.

I didn't say that you didn't know how to do anything with a Z either. I did say to check your tire gauge though, to make sure it is working correctly. 8 PSI isn't much pressure, and many gauges simply don't read accurately that low, even if they say they can go down to 1lb PSI.


Common sense dictates that your machine simply can't be that far off from any other machine as far as the ride goes. There has to be some easy and logical corrections that can be made to it. You may have mowed that property on other machines in the past, but IIRC, Mickhippy said that you guys have been in a drought? That would certainly make the ground a lot harder to ride over. Whether or not you want to believe it,, the ground in the video is very rough, and that's easy too see just by watching the rear tires bounce.

If you come to a public forum and ask for opinions or help, you gotta be willing to listen, especially when the vast majority of the posters are telling you the same thing.:)

TLS
10-07-2012, 05:43 PM
I could understand the ride comfort concerns if you we're coming from a Ferris full suspension or a Dixie Chopper. But setting those aside, a Flex-Forked Hustler is up at the very top as far as comfort goes.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mickhippy
10-07-2012, 07:58 PM
I watched the vids again and it looks as though you had less body movement when you were leaning forward. Again, adjust the seat back more angled away from your back so it doesnt hit you, and lean further away from it when you go over any rough ground.

You need to set the seat weight about 10kg or so more than you weigh, or just enough so it doesnt bottom out most of the time. Setting it at 130kg or what ever is too stiff. I weigh about 85kg and the seat is set at around 95kg.

Below is a photo of where my deck springs are set. I have about 1.5" more for adjustment. How much do you have? Try adjusting that nut all the way to the end, both sides of the deck. If that doesnt work ask your dealer about shortening them. It will be a pita to do so let the dealer do it if you go down that road. May even need to find a shorter and or weaker spring. I would not take them off altogether!

Get yourself a low pressure tire gauge. Unless your dealer used one, you have no real idea whats in there. Last time I let my dealer level my deck they set one tire up around 24psi and the other 18 or so. I asked for 10psi. Dont even get me started on all that though!

Try holding the levers further down, like around the first bend. That will give you less leverage so therefore probably less chance of jerking. Also, use a lighter touch.

The above should sort your forward/back, up and down but going front on over ruts like your doing in the vid will be rough no matter what machine of similar size, Ferris excluded.
How did those ruts get there? The place has either been mowed in both directions or possible circular. Seriously try a different direction. Think of the union jack with the 4 different angles. Doing angles doesnt add much time and Im sure youd be able to make it up with a faster speed. Next time you go over a speed bump, try hitting it at an angle. Its much less severe then hitting it front on as only one wheel has to absorb the shock at a time.

Id like to see vid of you driving the Dixon over those same ruts. Id also like to see a side by side comparison of speed between the Dix and the SZ. I wonder if your actually going faster than you think.

Below are a few pics of a property I just picked up. I DID NOT do whats in the pics. I got the job because of it. Every one of those lines is a rut from being mowed in the same circular direction for god knows how long. The terracing is insane. Point is, no way I can get any real speed on this place as the deck will bounce badly and is really not good on my back. Point is, I know its rough so adjust my methods accordingly.

mtmower
10-07-2012, 11:26 PM
OP, I found a similar situation going from an XR7 SZ to the Gravely 460. The property I have is rough, flat, wide open, I cut fast, and when the sun goes down shows every uneven cut (you can see if you ck my posts). Yes the 460's seat and isolation is awesome but if you removed both seats and ran them my SZ (with flex forks) rides smoother and leaves a smoother cut on this particular property. After a whole season of beating this into the ground I believe in my case that the 460 is lighter in the front end causing the front to bounce more, also it has a shorter wheel base which directly effects the ride, a ever so slightly higher COG, and lastly like others stated, on my 460 there is so much give in the seat design (which can be adjusted) that the rocking and bouncing will make you move the steering sticks unless you can be super limp wristed to absorb the motion. Then after trying all sorts of things I believe I found my answer to the extreme difference in machine rides. I've cut this property with my SZs for the last 7 years and I think my ruts from years of SZ (even when changing the pattern every time) are oddly positioned in such a way that the shorter wheel base of the 460 hits the ruts in a terrible out of sync manner if this makes sense. Feels like I'm on a bucking bronc if I push my speed. I think if the rut pattern from my SZ was narrow or wider that the 460 would not react so violently. In summary your previous mowers rut width may be spaced in such a way that the SZ is hitting the ruts out of time or sync. So yes the 460 may have room for a tweak of improvement here or there but I concluded that it's not so much the mower to blame but the rut pattern of the property. Don't know if I'm making sense.

Mickhippy
10-07-2012, 11:58 PM
Hows the bounce on this SZ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsvmkD5ObZ8&feature=share&list=ULqsvmkD5ObZ8

Ridin' Green
10-08-2012, 12:36 AM
Hows the bounce on this SZ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsvmkD5ObZ8&feature=share&list=ULqsvmkD5ObZ8

That's gonna leave a few scalps marks I'm thinkin'

Realslowww
10-08-2012, 12:43 AM
Boy that drive is definitely stout to do that, poor mower!

What is it with these guy's and there super mower's then they put a girly deck on it that cut's as wide as a G string. :laugh:

Realslowww
10-08-2012, 12:46 AM
OP, I found a similar situation going from an XR7 SZ to the Gravely 460. The property I have is rough, flat, wide open, I cut fast, and when the sun goes down shows every uneven cut (you can see if you ck my posts). Yes the 460's seat and isolation is awesome but if you removed both seats and ran them my SZ (with flex forks) rides smoother and leaves a smoother cut on this particular property. After a whole season of beating this into the ground I believe in my case that the 460 is lighter in the front end causing the front to bounce more, also it has a shorter wheel base which directly effects the ride, a ever so slightly higher COG, and lastly like others stated, on my 460 there is so much give in the seat design (which can be adjusted) that the rocking and bouncing will make you move the steering sticks unless you can be super limp wristed to absorb the motion. Then after trying all sorts of things I believe I found my answer to the extreme difference in machine rides. I've cut this property with my SZs for the last 7 years and I think my ruts from years of SZ (even when changing the pattern every time) are oddly positioned in such a way that the shorter wheel base of the 460 hits the ruts in a terrible out of sync manner if this makes sense. Feels like I'm on a bucking bronc if I push my speed. I think if the rut pattern from my SZ was narrow or wider that the 460 would not react so violently. In summary your previous mowers rut width may be spaced in such a way that the SZ is hitting the ruts out of time or sync. So yes the 460 may have room for a tweak of improvement here or there but I concluded that it's not so much the mower to blame but the rut pattern of the property. Don't know if I'm making sense. Which mower do you like best?

greenology
10-08-2012, 02:33 AM
Well, unless the female in the video is waaaay heavier than she appears to be, the seat couldn't have been set at the top for her there. She wouldn't have had enough body weight to get the seat to bounce and buckle on every single bump like it does in your video.

I don't think you are getting what we are saying either. I don't believe many, if anyone have said they thought you were going/mowing 15 MPH. I know I didn't say that.

I didn't say that you didn't know how to do anything with a Z either. I did say to check your tire gauge though, to make sure it is working correctly. 8 PSI isn't much pressure, and many gauges simply don't read accurately that low, even if they say they can go down to 1lb PSI.


Common sense dictates that your machine simply can't be that far off from any other machine as far as the ride goes. There has to be some easy and logical corrections that can be made to it. You may have mowed that property on other machines in the past, but IIRC, Mickhippy said that you guys have been in a drought? That would certainly make the ground a lot harder to ride over. Whether or not you want to believe it,, the ground in the video is very rough, and that's easy too see just by watching the rear tires bounce.

If you come to a public forum and ask for opinions or help, you gotta be willing to listen, especially when the vast majority of the posters are telling you the same thing.:)


The seat was set at the top, that im sure about, so im not sure why its bouncing more than you would expect. I can say that I notice the seat is a lot firmer when I set it to the highest as you would expect. Anyway I have today set it to 10kg above my weight as MickHippy has suggested. Also moved the back rest all the way back which has helped, most of the time on the hustler i dont lean on the backrest though.

The point about the 15 MPH is Im getting a lot of comments from not just on her but hustler rep & dealers telling me I shouldnt be cutting at 15 MPH and expect a good ride, it really goes without saying... but yet ppl continue to mention it. Maybe not yourself though. :)

I will buy a low pressure guage asap and make sure I get the tires down to 8 PSI, this has got to soak up a certain percentage of the bumps off coarse.

The ground im mowing in there has always been this rough, not sure why its possibly from water run off over time. But keeping in mind that this is not the only lawn with bumps, 90 % of my lawns have them and the mower will react in the same way on those lawns also, just on other lawns there is a good break in between rough sections.

I must admit my only reason for coming on this forum was to find out whether there was other people having the same issues as me, but it was a little frustrating to find out no one else seems to have the problem. However i certainly do appreciate the time ppl are goign to giving me tips etc so I am more than happy to now take it all on board and continue trying to adapt to the mower. This is off coarse the best scenario for me, i definately dont want to lose moner selling the mower and I dont want to continue using it whereby it makes me nasueas, so ill do as much as I can so I can get to a point where im a happy hustler client.

greenology
10-08-2012, 02:49 AM
I watched the vids again and it looks as though you had less body movement when you were leaning forward. Again, adjust the seat back more angled away from your back so it doesnt hit you, and lean further away from it when you go over any rough ground.

You need to set the seat weight about 10kg or so more than you weigh, or just enough so it doesnt bottom out most of the time. Setting it at 130kg or what ever is too stiff. I weigh about 85kg and the seat is set at around 95kg.

Below is a photo of where my deck springs are set. I have about 1.5" more for adjustment. How much do you have? Try adjusting that nut all the way to the end, both sides of the deck. If that doesnt work ask your dealer about shortening them. It will be a pita to do so let the dealer do it if you go down that road. May even need to find a shorter and or weaker spring. I would not take them off altogether!

Get yourself a low pressure tire gauge. Unless your dealer used one, you have no real idea whats in there. Last time I let my dealer level my deck they set one tire up around 24psi and the other 18 or so. I asked for 10psi. Dont even get me started on all that though!

Try holding the levers further down, like around the first bend. That will give you less leverage so therefore probably less chance of jerking. Also, use a lighter touch.

The above should sort your forward/back, up and down but going front on over ruts like your doing in the vid will be rough no matter what machine of similar size, Ferris excluded.
How did those ruts get there? The place has either been mowed in both directions or possible circular. Seriously try a different direction. Think of the union jack with the 4 different angles. Doing angles doesnt add much time and Im sure youd be able to make it up with a faster speed. Next time you go over a speed bump, try hitting it at an angle. Its much less severe then hitting it front on as only one wheel has to absorb the shock at a time.

Id like to see vid of you driving the Dixon over those same ruts. Id also like to see a side by side comparison of speed between the Dix and the SZ. I wonder if your actually going faster than you think.

Below are a few pics of a property I just picked up. I DID NOT do whats in the pics. I got the job because of it. Every one of those lines is a rut from being mowed in the same circular direction for god knows how long. The terracing is insane. Point is, no way I can get any real speed on this place as the deck will bounce badly and is really not good on my back. Point is, I know its rough so adjust my methods accordingly.


In the video with my back not on backrest, this was taken on a much smoother lawn, I didnt actually take a video of that on the same property which I should have! Taking my back of the seat rest is a help for sure, but doesnt fix it maybe 50% better. Also I end up with a sore lower back at times as some lawns are rough for a large percentage of the time, I guess all I can do is think back to my old mower where I never had to do that, and buying this hustler i expected a smoother ride, even tho i may need to accept this is the case it is still upsetting.

I will measure the springs tonight, im going to back them off all the way so no adjustment is left, hiopefully it will improve enough. if not then I will enquire with dealer about shortening springs, or buying some smaller.

Today I went back to the lawn which the videos are in, I honestly tried more than once to go over the same bumps without hands on levers, also with hands low on levers, it didnt help the hydros still seem to do their thing whether my hands are on them or not. I realise in the video I was moving the hydro leavers with my arms during the jerky movements, but this was an extreme case, when im out moving all day im obviously not bucking around to this extent all day, so im not moving levers with my arms, that comes from experience. but i do get the uncomfortable jerkyness even at very slow speeds.

I would definately like to get the old dixon out to the property and do a side by side comparison, I will do when I am able to but its a difficult task so not too sure how soon. In the mean time I am confident in myself that im not goign as fast or atleast no faster over these bumps than I did on the dixon. In fact while the hustler was in the dealers that lawn was due for a cut, so I had to take the old dixon out there and in comparison just didnt have a bad ride at all. I get the up and down bouncing like crazy over those ruts, but never have any jerkyness on the dixon. Anyway taking on board al your suggestions, so will see what I can come up with. I can try going a different angle on that lawn, but as I say I am getting the rough ride on all of my lawns not just this one and changing angles will not help in all situations.

greenology
10-08-2012, 04:30 AM
The deck springs had 1/2 inch of adjustment left on them, so I have backed them off completely & no adjustment is left now. I think I have tried this before the dealer re-set the whole deck and from memory it didnt help, but tomorrow I will see if theres any difference.

Mickhippy
10-08-2012, 05:52 AM
Half an inch isnt much.
I just had a brilliant idea, if I do say so myself.
Instead of cutting the spring, get some small straps like cheap ratchet straps, feed it through the spring at one (near the) end, feed it down the length of the spring and back out near the other end, lower the deck as far as possible, an inch or more lower than your usual cut height for example. That will compress the spring. Pull the straps as tight as possible and tie ends together. Raise deck to normal height and the springs shouldnt touch the stops. The straps should hold the springs compressed. No need for cutting shorter or messing with deck level etc. Only cost a few $ to try anyway!

Failing that, not sure how but could you add some weight to the deck, a few bricks or something? Just for testing. You could bolt something on later if it helps.

I think the jerking is just something youll have to get used to. Im really doubtful that the drive is faulty. That said, maybe the dampeners are bad. Doubtful both are though.
I really think if you get your body motion sorted, youll sort the jerking.

Put a few more hours on the machine with the backrest angled away and see how you go. Its about all you'll be able to do in the end.

Realslowww
10-08-2012, 09:20 AM
You will get used to the drive, the drive is just so powerful that any input creates a big responce.

puppypaws
10-08-2012, 10:32 AM
The seat was set at the top, that im sure about, so im not sure why its bouncing more than you would expect. I can say that I notice the seat is a lot firmer when I set it to the highest as you would expect. Anyway I have today set it to 10kg above my weight as MickHippy has suggested. Also moved the back rest all the way back which has helped, most of the time on the hustler i dont lean on the backrest though.

The point about the 15 MPH is Im getting a lot of comments from not just on her but hustler rep & dealers telling me I shouldnt be cutting at 15 MPH and expect a good ride, it really goes without saying... but yet ppl continue to mention it. Maybe not yourself though. :)

I will buy a low pressure guage asap and make sure I get the tires down to 8 PSI, this has got to soak up a certain percentage of the bumps off coarse.

The ground im mowing in there has always been this rough, not sure why its possibly from water run off over time. But keeping in mind that this is not the only lawn with bumps, 90 % of my lawns have them and the mower will react in the same way on those lawns also, just on other lawns there is a good break in between rough sections.

I must admit my only reason for coming on this forum was to find out whether there was other people having the same issues as me, but it was a little frustrating to find out no one else seems to have the problem. However i certainly do appreciate the time ppl are goign to giving me tips etc so I am more than happy to now take it all on board and continue trying to adapt to the mower. This is off coarse the best scenario for me, i definately dont want to lose moner selling the mower and I dont want to continue using it whereby it makes me nasueas, so ill do as much as I can so I can get to a point where im a happy hustler client.

I have no problem seeing exactly what is causing the bouncing, and it is definitely coming from the washboard effect of the ruts which came from water washing soil away over the years. I could also see immediately you were running nowhere close to the Super Z's top speed, if running over the ruts at that speed you would be leaving the seat if not strapped in very tightly.

The one thing I do have a problem with is you saying you have cut this same property on a previously owed ztr at 13 mph without seeing the bouncing you are experiencing with the Super Z. That my friend is not possible, my new longer wheel base Super Z would not ride smoothly over this ground, but much better than a shorter wheel base ztr equipped with only a suspension seat.

Think of this ground in terms of water you are riding across in a boat, the chop on water which has the peaks of its waves spaced out at a certain distance may be extremely rough riding in, lets say an 18' boat. You can take the same boat and add only 3' to its length making it a 21' boat, which in return will allow the boat to reach across, and stay on top of the waves making for a much smoother ride. The reason I use this illustration comes from many years of operating boats in size from 10' to 52'... the shorter, lighter boat will beat your brains out, while the heavier, longer boat gives a much superior ride. Weight and length is the part of the equation that makes basically anything ride better.

Realslowww
10-08-2012, 10:47 AM
I have no problem seeing exactly what is causing the bouncing, and it is definitely coming from the washboard effect of the ruts which came from water washing soil away over the years. I could also see immediately you were running nowhere close to the Super Z's top speed, if running over the ruts at that speed you would be leaving the seat if not strapped in very tightly.

The one thing I do have a problem with is you saying you have cut this same property on a previously owed ztr at 13 mph without seeing the bouncing you are experiencing with the Super Z. That my friend is not possible, my new longer wheel base Super Z would not ride smoothly over this ground, but much better than a shorter wheel base ztr equipped with only a suspension seat.

Think of this ground in terms of water you are riding across in a boat, the chop on water which has the peaks of its waves spaced out at a certain distance may be extremely rough riding in, lets say an 18' boat. You can take the same boat and add only 3' to its length making it a 21' boat, which in return will allow the boat to reach across, and stay on top of the waves making for a much smoother ride. The reason I use this illustration comes from many years of operating boats in size from 10' to 52'... the shorter, lighter boat will beat your brains out, while the heavier, longer boat gives a much superior ride. Weight and length is the part of the equation that makes basically anything ride better.

I just had a conversation with a dealer who sells alot of these and he said he has had a few complaints about the ride from guy's who own both the XR7 and new Super, he said the complaint came from guy's who own like 30 or 40 Super Z's so he took note.

It seems to be flex forks are the norm on these mowers and that was the cure he told me.

Puppy you are wrong about added weight helping the ride, it's your enemy and a stiffer more heavily built frame will add to it,and added weight on hills will cause the mower to slide down more not give more traction.

puppypaws
10-08-2012, 01:17 PM
I just had a conversation with a dealer who sells alot of these and he said he has had a few complaints about the ride from guy's who own both the XR7 and new Super, he said the complaint came from guy's who own like 30 or 40 Super Z's so he took note.

It seems to be flex forks are the norm on these mowers and that was the cure he told me.

Puppy you are wrong about added weight helping the ride, it's your enemy and a stiffer more heavily built frame will add to it,and added weight on hills will cause the mower to slide down more not give more traction.

I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you...I've been on entirely too much light equipment versus heavy equipment to ever believe lighter weight promotes a better ride. As a matter of fact, given the size of a lighter weight truck versus the heavier GMC Yukon XL I drive, which would you assume rides best, give me your honest answer and why you answer this way? Remember, we are not talking about traction and slope handling capability, we are talking only about ride and comfort.

I don't care how many people you talk to that tells you this, and tells you that, including "greenology" with his video, the new-style Hustler Super Z with its heavier weight and longer wheel base rides and operates extremely well, and better than the lighter, shorter wheel base older style model Super Z.

The people the guy spoke of owning 30 or 40 Super Z mowers have no idea how they ride period, much less day-in and day-out/

TNGrassCutter
10-08-2012, 02:34 PM
Puppy you are wrong about added weight helping the ride, it's your enemy and a stiffer more heavily built frame will add to it,and added weight on hills will cause the mower to slide down more not give more traction.

Is that one of the reasons they fill tractor tires with fluid? And for the guy with 40 mowers, he probably never used one, if I had that much business I sure wouldn't be sitting on one all day.
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Ridin' Green
10-08-2012, 02:39 PM
I agree with puppy & TN GC about the weight. Heavier is better for both traction and ride. The one area that extra weight is not your friend, is on hillsides when the weight is above the midline of the machine giving you a higher COG.

I'm old enough to remember when cars were cars. Even though suspension technology has moved forwards by leaps and bounds, those old "heavy" cars of the '60's and 70's rode worlds better than later cars, especiallly those like todays full sized so called "heavy" cars do. Is just common sense. More weight will require more force to move, and more weight will absorb more impact before moving.

puppypaws
10-08-2012, 03:35 PM
I agree with puppy & TN GC about the weight. Heavier is better for both traction and ride. The one area that extra weight is not your friend, is on hillsides when the weight is above the midline of the machine giving you a higher COG.

I'm old enough to remember when cars were cars. Even though suspension technology has moved forwards by leaps and bounds, those old "heavy" cars of the '60's and 70's rode worlds better than later cars, especiallly those like todays full sized so called "heavy" cars do. Is just common sense. More weight will require more force to move, and more weight will absorb more impact before moving.

I'm 63 yrs. old and been on far too much farm equipment not to realize that a shorter wheel base and/or lighter weight gives a much worse ride.

Is that one of the reasons they fill tractor tires with fluid? And for the guy with 40 mowers, he probably never used one, if I had that much business I sure wouldn't be sitting on one all day.


If a person is looking after a business with 40 mowers running, he probably has no idea of what they each look like, much less how they ride. The reason we've put fluid in tractor tires for years is to put the power on the ground by reducing slippage, and the added benefit is forcing the tractor to hug the ground and lessen the jolt of bumps in the field, which in return makes it ride much smoother.

TNGrassCutter
10-08-2012, 04:14 PM
Yes I know why we put fluid in tractor tires. I was giving real slow something to ponder.
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Realslowww
10-08-2012, 04:53 PM
I have no problem agreeing to disagree with you...I've been on entirely too much light equipment versus heavy equipment to ever believe lighter weight promotes a better ride. As a matter of fact, given the size of a lighter weight truck versus the heavier GMC Yukon XL I drive, which would you assume rides best, give me your honest answer and why you answer this way? Remember, we are not talking about traction and slope handling capability, we are talking only about ride and comfort.

I don't care how many people you talk to that tells you this, and tells you that, including "greenology" with his video, the new-style Hustler Super Z with its heavier weight and longer wheel base rides and operates extremely well, and better than the lighter, shorter wheel base older style model Super Z.

The people the guy spoke of owning 30 or 40 Super Z mowers have no idea how they ride period, much less day-in and day-out/ Puppy there are people out there who know the limitations of these mowers or any mower better than you, Your opinion is very valid and much more valid than mine but you only mow the same property for the most part week end and week out. A person who mows alot of varieing types of terrain is more qualified to make a accessment over you.

Do not get me wrong your point is very valid, on the other note a dealer who has 100's of these units out in the field is very qualified to make a point better than anybody if he listens to his customers.

He just made the point that he heard from a few of his big customers who use both the old style and new style that the old was plusher stock from the reports in the field he was hearing.

On the point of weight you should take a physics class,weight is your enemy. It allows more energy to be transferred to the rider and the faster you go the more the heavier unit will beat the rider in rough terrain.

As you add speed it becomes more appearant weight is your enemy, My old 300 pound XR 650 would never blitz whoops or torn up terrain even close to my 225 pound Cr 500 even with modern suspension added to the 650 why because it weighs 75 more pounds.

Now you can have a better equiped suspension package on the heavier machine and it may ride better but all things being equal with design taken into consideration light is better for transmitting less impact to rider period!

You are right about the chasses longness helping but I picked up on my 5 minute demo of the new Super that the ride on the newer Super was more solid with less give and the flex forks were making the unit much more livable.

I wonder how much air tires would help?

Ridin' Green
10-08-2012, 06:16 PM
Puppy there are people out there who know the limitations of these mowers or any mower better than you, Your opinion is very valid and much more valid than mine but you only mow the same property for the most part week end and week out. A person who mows alot of varieing types of terrain is more qualified to make a accessment over you.

Do not get me wrong your point is very valid, on the other note a dealer who has 100's of these units out in the field is very qualified to make a point better than anybody if he listens to his customers.

He just made the point that he heard from a few of his big customers who use both the old style and new style that the old was plusher stock from the reports in the field he was hearing.

On the point of weight you should take a physics class,weight is your enemy. It allows more energy to be transferred to the rider and the faster you go the more the heavier unit will beat the rider in rough terrain.

As you add speed it becomes more appearant weight is your enemy, My old 300 pound XR 650 would never blitz whoops or torn up terrain even close to my 225 pound Cr 500 even with modern suspension added to the 650 why because it weighs 75 more pounds.

Now you can have a better equiped suspension package on the heavier machine and it may ride better but all things being equal with design taken into consideration light is better for transmitting less impact to rider period!

You are right about the chasses longness helping but I picked up on my 5 minute demo of the new Super that the ride on the newer Super was more solid with less give and the flex forks were making the unit much more livable.

I wonder how much air tires would help?

You simply have this all backwards bro. We aren't talking about a small weight difference, but going very fast as in the case of your dirt bikes. Weight is your friend, not your enemy for what we are talking about here, and any physics teacher will be on our side, not yours. Weight absorbs more energy, and will make the machine last longer in part due to that fact. It willl also make the machine ride better, not worse. Get on a 1200lb mower and go across a regular hay field at speed, then get on one like a Deere 997 and do it again. The heavier machine will ride better, and it's not simply because of the wheels and tires on the 997.

Better yet, get on a standard Honda sport bike in the 600CC class and run it down a rough paved road, then get a on a Goldwing and drive down the same stretch of rough paved road. If lighter were better, don't you think all the highway tourer's would be asking the motorcycle mau's to make lighter touring bikes, not heavier?

puppypaws
10-08-2012, 06:19 PM
Puppy there are people out there who know the limitations of these mowers or any mower better than you, Your opinion is very valid and much more valid than mine but you only mow the same property for the most part week end and week out. A person who mows alot of varieing types of terrain is more qualified to make a accessment over you.

Do not get me wrong your point is very valid, on the other note a dealer who has 100's of these units out in the field is very qualified to make a point better than anybody if he listens to his customers.

He just made the point that he heard from a few of his big customers who use both the old style and new style that the old was plusher stock from the reports in the field he was hearing.

On the point of weight you should take a physics class,weight is your enemy. It allows more energy to be transferred to the rider and the faster you go the more the heavier unit will beat the rider in rough terrain.

As you add speed it becomes more appearant weight is your enemy, My old 300 pound XR 650 would never blitz whoops or torn up terrain even close to my 225 pound Cr 500 even with modern suspension added to the 650 why because it weighs 75 more pounds.

Now you can have a better equiped suspension package on the heavier machine and it may ride better but all things being equal with design taken into consideration light is better for transmitting less impact to rider period!

You are right about the chasses longness helping but I picked up on my 5 minute demo of the new Super that the ride on the newer Super was more solid with less give and the flex forks were making the unit much more livable.

I wonder how much air tires would help?

If you are giving me a class on physics, explain how it is possible to feel virtually no bumps in terrain when driving a 55 ton (110,000 lbs.) self-propelled howitzer in comparison to getting beat to death on the same terrain in what would be considered a very large truck by truck standards, but a lightweight when comparing to the tracked howitzer. Now remember, the howitzer has no (zero) suspension, and the truck has very adequate suspension.

This is heavy weight machine that rides better versus a lighter weight machine, explain this in a physics definition that will help me see what you are speaking of. Now, remember your statement is: "On the point of weight you should take a physics class, weight is your enemy. It allows more energy to be transferred to the rider and the faster you go the more the heavier unit will beat the rider in rough terrain."

This should be very easy for you to explain in physics terminology since the howitzer weighs 110,000 lbs. and the truck weighs 40,000 lbs, especially when saying weight transfers more energy to the rider. If this is actually the case, a 110,000 lb. vehicle should ride far worse than a 40,000 lb. vehicle, but yet this is not the case...Explain why not?

GMLC
10-08-2012, 06:25 PM
Lets try to get back to the OP's problem here. IMO the long wheel base is beating him to death like being on a seesaw. The rear tires almost come off the ground a few times in those videos. In this case I feel a shorter wheel base mower would be better like his old mowers that do the same property with no problems.

puppypaws
10-08-2012, 07:48 PM
Lets try to get back to the OP's problem here. IMO the long wheel base is beating him to death like being on a seesaw. The rear tires almost come off the ground a few times in those videos. In this case I feel a shorter wheel base mower would be better like his old mowers that do the same property with no problems.

Long wheel base, short wheel base, it really makes no difference, on a property such as this you slow down to a point where you can ride the highs and lows like a boat going up and over a swell.

There is honestly a very simple fix for this problem, when too rough, slow down. I would take bets there is absolutely nothing wrong with the mower.

I have about 1/2 acre with the same problem, except probably a little worse, and I have to slow down to the point of crawling through the ruts, I mean virtually stopping all together, and then easing through each one individually.

TLS
10-08-2012, 07:58 PM
I still think it's the rear tire pressure.

A good quality analog 0-15psi gauge is necessary.

There is a HUGE difference in ride between 8 and 12 psi.

Maybe these OTR tires are stiffer riding than Carlisle's ?

puppypaws
10-08-2012, 08:22 PM
I still think it's the rear tire pressure.

A good quality analog 0-15psi gauge is necessary.

There is a HUGE difference in ride between 8 and 12 psi.

Maybe these OTR tires are stiffer riding than Carlisle's ?

The new longer wheel base Super I now have with the semi-pneumatic tires (which I thought would be rougher riding) handle the ruts easier than my shorter wheel base Super does. When the front wheels move out of the rut it is a split second longer before the rear tires move through the same rut, which in turn lets your body adjust, as where with the shorter wheel base it does not. People may not think this can make a difference, but they only need to compare to find out for themselves. I honestly don't think I would have bought into this until experiencing it for myself.

Realslowww
10-08-2012, 10:07 PM
The new longer wheel base Super I now have with the semi-pneumatic tires (which I thought would be rougher riding) handle the ruts easier than my shorter wheel base Super does. When the front wheels move out of the rut it is a split second longer before the rear tires move through the same rut, which in turn lets your body adjust, as where with the shorter wheel base it does not. People may not think this can make a difference, but they only need to compare to find out for themselves. I honestly don't think I would have bought into this until experiencing it for myself. Your mower is alot longer than your 66, my 72 should be 2 inches longer than your 66.

Weight and speed do not mix over rough terrain all things being equal,yes water in the tires will lower the center of gravity and give better traction to a point. As your speed goes up the water will create a gyro imbalance as in like a washer on spin cycle that does not let the water out. Have you ever seen that when the machine starts violently jumping around.

And definitely on hills weight is your enemy for keeping traction and not sliding,now putting water in the tires lowers the center of gravity good and that is different.

In some cases at lower speed weight may be good if done correctly but as the speed goes up it handicaps bad.

You take a Goldwing at speed off road and see what handles better a 600 at 400 pounds or a Goldwing. The Goldwing with all it's weight will kill you at speed. The 600 can be made to handle and hill climb with no problem, they do it all the time, you do not see a Goldwing doing that do you?. THE GOLDWING WILL KILL YOU.

I'll be it 200 pounds is not that big a deal but a stiff chasses being made by the pounds could be.

All I am saying is ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL the lighter design will navigate choppy rutty terrain better not a heavier one.

TNGrassCutter
10-08-2012, 10:26 PM
Again incorrect examples. Your washer should never jump around when full of water, only time they do that is when they are on the spin cycle with all the clothes gathered on one side. It doesn't spin fast enough in wash cycles to jump around. The water or fluid is mostly staying at or near the bottom of the tire even at 15 MPH , its not spinning fast enough to move the fluid anywhere else.
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Realslowww
10-08-2012, 10:58 PM
Again incorrect examples. Your washer should never jump around when full of water, only time they do that is when they are on the spin cycle with all the clothes gathered on one side. It doesn't spin fast enough in wash cycles to jump around. The water or fluid is mostly staying at or near the bottom of the tire even at 15 MPH , its not spinning fast enough to move the fluid anywhere else.
Posted via Mobile Device it's the wieght of the water that does the jumping not the weight of the clothes, when the water bleeds off and it is just the clothing it balances out and quits jumping.

I remember 20 or 25 years ago when the monster trucks were getting bigger and heavier then all the suddenly they used their heads and figured out well gee a Formula one car will stomp a Nascar in handling. gee I wonder why most of the reason is WEIGHT! so then they started ligtning the monster trucks up and then they handled the rough terrain much better and made much better times.

Just like my quad and my 2 wheeler. My 2 wheelers will tear up the quad in rough terrain why well most of it is weight but 2 wheels compared to 4 helps as well in making it more agile. The quad beats the crap out of you compared to the 2 wheeler.

15 MPH is a good clip to hit stuff with no real suspension.

And I will Gaurantee you can make my 200 pound lighter 72 handle a good bit better over practically all terrain over the new Super because it is 200 pounds lighter, no dought the new mower is better but 200 pounds is 200 pounds.

Ridin' Green
10-09-2012, 12:53 AM
it's the wieght of the water that does the jumping not the weight of the clothes, when the water bleeds off and it is just the clothing it balances out and quits jumping.This is again, not correct. I do all my laundry. I know when the machine gets to jumping, and what causes it. It is as TN said- the clothes are piled heavily to one side throwing the basket out of balance. It never, ever jumps around with water in it because the agitation speed is so low.

I remember 20 or 25 years ago when the monster trucks were getting bigger and heavier then all the suddenly they used their heads and figured out well gee a Formula one car will stomp a Nascar in handling. gee I wonder why most of the reason is WEIGHT! so then they started ligtning the monster trucks up and then they handled the rough terrain much better and made much better times.Again, not a valid comarison. You are talking about two completely different things regarding energy and the transfer of it. A mower doesn't jump high in the air, nor weigh what the truck does, and the mower isn't depending on high tech suspension sytems to soften the impacts like the monster truck needs to have. High tech suspension, lighter weight truck= longer lasting truck when jumping over stuff. It has nothing to do with the smoothness of the ride.

Just like my quad and my 2 wheeler. My 2 wheelers will tear up the quad in rough terrain why well most of it is weight but 2 wheels compared to 4 helps as well in making it more agile. The quad beats the crap out of you compared to the 2 wheeler.Because the quad has at least two wheels banging off the ground compared to only one on the dirt bike

15 MPH is a good clip to hit stuff with no real suspension.

And I will Gaurantee you can make my 200 pound lighter 72 handle a good bit better over practically all terrain over the new Super because it is 200 pounds lighter, no dought the new mower is better but 200 pounds is 200 pounds. Simply not correct bro. A light mower in comparison to the mass of Earth, Mmmmm, which do you think will move away from the other, and at a faster clip? With no suspension involved to make things complicated- the answer is lighter- always.


As for the fluid in the tires, they don't just fill the bottom end. It is usually to at least 90%, but not more because there needs to be some air space for proper inflation, for both ride quality, and to make the tire flex better for traction in the fieldd. That way the rim is never exposed to air when using calcium chloride for weight, which would cause rust to form on the rim. Most are now using beet juice (Rim Guard) because it doesn't cause corrocsion, and costs less, but weighs more. Still, they fill the tire up to near the top. No weight tranfer or out of balance conditions that way, and tires filled to near full give far less road lope (hop) when transporting between fields.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 02:29 AM
As for the fluid in the tires, they don't just fill the bottom end. It is usually to at least 90%, but not more because there needs to be some air space for proper inflation, for both ride quality, and to make the tire flex better for traction in the fieldd. That way the rim is never exposed to air when using calcium chloride for weight, which would cause rust to form on the rim. Most are now using beet juice (Rim Guard) because it doesn't cause corrocsion, and costs less, but weighs more. Still, they fill the tire up to near the top. No weight tranfer or out of balance conditions that way, and tires filled to near full give far less road lope (hop) when transporting between fields. Thanks I did not know that ,how fast can you go with the tires like that? I know in racing light wheels are the key to going faster so I know you can only spin them up so much before you run into trouble.

That is a huge tractor tire as well, it gave me the idea to do it to my mower for doing real steep slopes? with low air pressure to try and get the tires to hook up better.

You are telling the weight has nothing to do with the quad being a pig?

I do not like the fact the new Super weighs 200 more pounds at all.

You want it to glide over all the ruts at speed not ride in them, that is why my more agile bikes kill the heavier machines.Although I will admit this is a mower and not a race vehicle but 15 MPH is pretty racy for no suspension.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 02:40 AM
As for the fluid in the tires, they don't just fill the bottom end. It is usually to at least 90%, but not more because there needs to be some air space for proper inflation, for both ride quality, and to make the tire flex better for traction in the fieldd. That way the rim is never exposed to air when using calcium chloride for weight, which would cause rust to form on the rim. Most are now using beet juice (Rim Guard) because it doesn't cause corrocsion, and costs less, but weighs more. Still, they fill the tire up to near the top. No weight tranfer or out of balance conditions that way, and tires filled to near full give far less road lope (hop) when transporting between fields. I will gaurantee you I can get the older Super with tuning to handle and ride a good bit better over rough terrain than the newer 200 pound heavier machine.

I have set up enough race vehicles to know how bad weight is in rough terrain.

Thanks for the info

greenology
10-09-2012, 03:37 AM
Today I used a Toro Z Master diesel zero turn. Its ground speed is definately faster than my old dixons were, I rode it as fast as it would go over ever rut I could find, I was bouncing out of the seat completely with my ass lifting a few inches above the seat. But I never had any jerking feeling, my neck wasnt jerked forward to back. It reminded me of the ride on the dixon, just plain old bumps up and down very rough ride sure, but no jerking whatsoever. It was such a relief to be using that machine, then I immediately got back on the hustler and drove over the exact same terrain at 1/4 of the speed, and had the deck bouncing and my neck being jerked once again.

The big difference between the mowers, hustler has flex forks, the toro didnt. Im wondering if there is an issue with my flex forks or if I simply dont like the way a zero turn rides with flex forks... But I am goign to ask the dealer if I can borrow a set of standard forks and use them for a while to see how it goes.

I never said my old dixon wasnt rough, I just said it never jerked me around and made me nasueas.

greenology
10-09-2012, 04:04 AM
I have no problem seeing exactly what is causing the bouncing, and it is definitely coming from the washboard effect of the ruts which came from water washing soil away over the years. I could also see immediately you were running nowhere close to the Super Z's top speed, if running over the ruts at that speed you would be leaving the seat if not strapped in very tightly.

The one thing I do have a problem with is you saying you have cut this same property on a previously owed ztr at 13 mph without seeing the bouncing you are experiencing with the Super Z. That my friend is not possible, my new longer wheel base Super Z would not ride smoothly over this ground, but much better than a shorter wheel base ztr equipped with only a suspension seat.

Think of this ground in terms of water you are riding across in a boat, the chop on water which has the peaks of its waves spaced out at a certain distance may be extremely rough riding in, lets say an 18' boat. You can take the same boat and add only 3' to its length making it a 21' boat, which in return will allow the boat to reach across, and stay on top of the waves making for a much smoother ride. The reason I use this illustration comes from many years of operating boats in size from 10' to 52'... the shorter, lighter boat will beat your brains out, while the heavier, longer boat gives a much superior ride. Weight and length is the part of the equation that makes basically anything ride better.


Mate the ruts on this lawn are NOT the only place I get this issue. I get the same problem on EVERY single one of my lawns!! I wish I never showed the dam video of the ruts, I was just trying to show it in its most dramatic state. But if you would just take my dam word for it, the machine does it everywhere there is any kind of bump whatsoever, okay? I guess your the kind of guy that thinks most people out there are stupid and therefor you give no one the benefit of the doubt.

I never said I could run the dixon at 13 MPH I said half the speed of the hustler is the full speed of my dixon, therefor the speed is 7MPH flat out on dixon and yes I assure you I can dam well go full speed over those ruts in my dixon!!!!! I dont make things up!! I do get a very rough ride with the dixon, but the rough ride has no jerking in it, therefor i get no headaches or ill feelings after hours of mowing on the dioxon.

its not the ground or the ruts or the washboard effect...

Your telling me that since I went from a for eg 2.576897 meter long wheel base as opposed to a 3.576543 meter wheel base, therefor I should expect to be jerked around and expect a rough ride and just put up with it?

As far as speed goes. As I keep saying on here, I get the same rough ride at all speeds!!!

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 04:07 AM
Ok so you need to make the deck springs shorter. Compress them with a couple of ratchet straps like I said in another post. That way you'll know if its the springs or not.
Hope your dealer can sort a couple of forks, and air filled tires set at 10psi or so for you.

greenology
10-09-2012, 04:16 AM
With regards the mower deck, it was still bouncing up and down with the springs adjustment taken all the way up.

greenology
10-09-2012, 04:23 AM
Ok so you need to make the deck springs shorter. Compress them with a couple of ratchet straps like I said in another post. That way you'll know if its the springs or not.
Hope your dealer can sort a couple of forks, and air filled tires set at 10psi or so for you.

It seems as though the "rough mower ride" is causing the deck to bounce dont you think? I feel the right way to do it would be to fix the rough mower, then the deck may not bounce...

After getting on another machine similar in weight and length and feeling its ride completely different and way more user friendly, this reassured me there is something out of place with the ride on my hustler.

The other thing to mention here is the deck didnt bounce on that other machine once! even though I bounced out of the seat.

I dont see why the springs on my machine being the exact same as the springs on your machine, should be the cause of the deck bouncing around. If you ask me its just evidence that the machine is running rougher than yours is. At this point im hoping the flex forks have an issue, they may be stiffer than they should be and causing the washboard effect over every bump i go on.

Dunno, but sick of analysing the mower i cant tell ya that! didnt expect any of this when I handed the dealer all that money.

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 05:12 AM
With regards the mower deck, it was still bouncing up and down with the springs adjustment taken all the way up.

Yeah, half inch wasnt much. Need a couple inches.
I wrote this last night....
Instead of cutting the spring, get some small straps like cheap ratchet straps, feed it through the spring at one (near the) end, feed it down the length of the spring and back out near the other end, lower the deck as far as possible, an inch or more lower than your usual cut height for example. That will compress the spring. Pull the straps as tight as possible and tie ends together (or just use the hooks. could compress the springs even more with the ratchet). Raise deck to normal height and the springs shouldnt touch the stops. The straps should hold the springs compressed. No need for cutting shorter or messing with deck level etc. Only cost a few $ to try anyway!

Its thought that the older flex forks are softer than the new. If thats the case then maybe you have the older forks. Ask your dealer to try a different set of those as well.
In fact, why dont you get him to bring a demo machine out and try the machines side by side, try the demo. Least that way you'll know if its just your machine or not. Swap forks around while your at it.

Other than that, maybe this machine just isnt for you.
I have to say, I mow some much much rougher properties than in your vids. The one thing I love about the machine is the ride, drive system etc. I HATE the discharge and the fuel tanks but thats about it.

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 06:28 AM
Ask the rep what he thinks... http://www.lawnsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31

greenology
10-09-2012, 08:13 AM
Other than that, maybe this machine just isnt for you.
I have to say, I mow some much much rougher properties than in your vids. The one thing I love about the machine is the ride, drive system etc. I HATE the discharge and the fuel tanks but thats about it.[/QUOTE]


How slow would you be going over the real rough stuff, like as slow as 5 kph or even less? and do you get any jerking of your upper body front to back that you can think off? the same jerking you would be feeling if you jerked the levers on and off quickly, do you get this feeling at some point or another on any or all of your lawns.

I honestly hope it is something I can fix, I hate that I have to be bad naming what seems such an excellent machine, hense why I bought it.

I dont hold any hope in asking reps or anyone to do with hustler, they all tell me they have never heard of ANYTHING like it, all I know is what I keep experiencing every day I use it. This NSW rep is meeting with me next monday to go over that lawn in the video. See if he can teach me something I am doing wrong. But I must say, I doubt he would have done the amount of hours cutting lawns on zero turns as I have, so I just dont understand how it can be something im doing wrong, but will be happily wrong about that if he can show me something different that gets rid of this jerking.

mtmower
10-09-2012, 10:30 AM
Yeah, half inch wasnt much. Need a couple inches.
I wrote this last night....


Its thought that the older flex forks are softer than the new. If thats the case then maybe you have the older forks. Ask your dealer to try a different set of those as well.
In fact, why dont you get him to bring a demo machine out and try the machines side by side, try the demo. Least that way you'll know if its just your machine or not. Swap forks around while your at it.

Other than that, maybe this machine just isnt for you.
I have to say, I mow some much much rougher properties than in your vids. The one thing I love about the machine is the ride, drive system etc. I HATE the discharge and the fuel tanks but thats about it.

The early flex forks (xr7) are physically smaller in shaft area that goes through the frame. Unless they had to different makes in ride softness in the vx4 style I doubt that this would be the case. Of course you can always have a bad one or two in a bunch as well.

puppypaws
10-09-2012, 11:05 AM
Mate the ruts on this lawn are NOT the only place I get this issue. I get the same problem on EVERY single one of my lawns!! I wish I never showed the dam video of the ruts, I was just trying to show it in its most dramatic state. But if you would just take my dam word for it, the machine does it everywhere there is any kind of bump whatsoever, okay? I guess your the kind of guy that thinks most people out there are stupid and therefor you give no one the benefit of the doubt.

I never said I could run the dixon at 13 MPH I said half the speed of the hustler is the full speed of my dixon, therefor the speed is 7MPH flat out on dixon and yes I assure you I can dam well go full speed over those ruts in my dixon!!!!! I dont make things up!! I do get a very rough ride with the dixon, but the rough ride has no jerking in it, therefor i get no headaches or ill feelings after hours of mowing on the dioxon.

its not the ground or the ruts or the washboard effect...

Your telling me that since I went from a for eg 2.576897 meter long wheel base as opposed to a 3.576543 meter wheel base, therefor I should expect to be jerked around and expect a rough ride and just put up with it?

As far as speed goes. As I keep saying on here, I get the same rough ride at all speeds!!!

That was my mistake for not converting the 13 KPH to what would actually be 8.08 MPH, just not something we normally see in this country, but a conversion that does make an extreme difference. I was actually thinking in terms of 13 mph and not 8 mph. I honestly have no idea how fast you are mowing with the Super Z, but I would guess in the 9 mph (14.48 kph) range. Since realizing you are attempting to mow at a speed you normally mow this property, and are seeing a problem you've never seen before, there could possibly be a hydraulic problem adding to the bucking from the ruts.

Have you put this mower on a smooth property to see exactly how it feels and reacts? The hydraulic system on a Hustler Super Z is the smoothest in the industry, and I've operated many. It should be a joy for you to run this machine, and not a chore. I would like to know your thoughts on how the hydraulics feel, and how the mower operates on a smooth property. Your hydraulics on the mower should feel as smooth as a finely oiled machine on both sides, but not only should they feel smooth, they should also feel perfectly equal in each command you physically give.

Keep working with us, we will eventually get to the bottom of your problem, I promise, and again, I'm sorry for coming off in the wrong direction due to not converting the speed.

Please come back as soon as you have results from checking the mower thoroughly on a smooth property, I've very interested in how the hydraulics feel. I wish I could operate your mower for five minutes, I could tell immediately if there is something causing what you are seeing.

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 12:01 PM
MT, these are my first FF's so really didnt know about size/rubber changes. I know a lot of people had issues with the XR7 ones though and is why I didnt get them.


Green... If you look at the my vid again in post 26, thats about as rough as it gets, the vid doesn't give it justice believe me. 1.5hrs or so and it really starts to hurt, I make it last job of the day. Always makes me want to take a pizz. re needing the kidney belt.
I dont think Im doing more than 5 or 6mph for the most part, a fast walk.
At or near the start of the vid theres a small bare area that gives an idea of the ant nests. Its like that all over the place, you just cant see them under the grass. Some of those nests are 4 or 5" high. There kind of different to your problems though. Ruts make both front wheels hit at the same time where as these nests every wheel is doing something different.

Ive watched your vids again and even though the prop your doing leaning forward may be smoother, there are definitely some dips or rough spots in it. Your head/body is staying fairly still until you hit a rough spot and then you push/pull/jerk the sticks. watch around the 5 sec,14 sec, 24sec, 27sec in the leaning forward vid you can see your hands move.

In the other vid of you and ya miss's, its the sitting back in the chair thats flinging you forward and again, jerking the sticks. Like Ive said, you have to sit forward, let the machine rock underneath you. Watch these guys heads/upper body. Especially the second guy. It barely moves. http://youtu.be/LdeKwafcL50 or better yet... http://youtu.be/_fWt0tlfBMg
Basically, thats what you need to achieve.
You shouldnt need to lean fully forward all the time, just over the areas you know are rough. Granted, the flex forks may be making it worse for you but Id rather have them, slow down on the bad props than get beat to death on every lawn. But thats me!

The only jerking I get is going up steep rough slopes but even then its rare now. I have the drive pretty much down pat, I have a 150hrs on this SZ. It still happens, just not often. I have to drive up a fairly steep, rough track just to load up the mower so is something I learnt pretty quickly. The only other time it happens is if I forget about a bad rut or hole. Not often as I know my properties pretty well.

I just watch a few vids I havent published and while I was going pretty slow (very long grass) I noticed when I did get rocked, there was no jerking of the sticks and Im able to nullify the body rock with my legs. I hold the sticks very low at the first bend. Thats less leverage on the sticks. Higher up is more responsive if that makes sense or need a lighter touch the higher up the sticks you hold them.

Ridin' Green
10-09-2012, 12:22 PM
I just watch a few vids I havent published and while I was going pretty slow (very long grass) I noticed when I did get rocked, there was no jerking of the sticks and Im able to nullify the body rock with my legs. I hold the sticks very low at the first bend. Thats less leverage on the sticks. Higher up is more responsive if that makes sense or need a lighter touch the higher up the sticks you hold them.

You gonna post those vids on your channel mick?

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 06:20 PM
You gonna post those vids on your channel mick?

Damit, :hammerhead: I knew I shouldnt of written that! See what I can do!

TLS
10-09-2012, 06:39 PM
Maybe the OP'ers sticks are in the high position?

You have to ride a ZTR like a horse.

But, I still question how these other (lesser) mowers supposedly rode better.

The Flex-Forks are smoother riding then the effects of smaller, lighter and more flexing caster arms of lesser ZTR's.

So that only leaves the rear tires as the variable. It's either pressure or sidewall stiffness.

But that being said, I didn't notice any difference between my 2006 and the 2012 demo.
Posted via Mobile Device

greenology
10-09-2012, 07:02 PM
Green... If you look at the my vid again in post 26, thats about as rough as it gets, the vid doesn't give it justice believe me. 1.5hrs or so and it really starts to hurt, I make it last job of the day. Always makes me want to take a pizz. re needing the kidney belt.
I dont think Im doing more than 5 or 6mph for the most part, a fast walk.
At or near the start of the vid theres a small bare area that gives an idea of the ant nests. Its like that all over the place, you just cant see them under the grass. Some of those nests are 4 or 5" high. There kind of different to your problems though. Ruts make both front wheels hit at the same time where as these nests every wheel is doing something different.

Ive watched your vids again and even though the prop your doing leaning forward may be smoother, there are definitely some dips or rough spots in it. Your head/body is staying fairly still until you hit a rough spot and then you push/pull/jerk the sticks. watch around the 5 sec,14 sec, 24sec, 27sec in the leaning forward vid you can see your hands move.

In the other vid of you and ya miss's, its the sitting back in the chair thats flinging you forward and again, jerking the sticks. Like Ive said, you have to sit forward, let the machine rock underneath you. Watch these guys heads/upper body. Especially the second guy. It barely moves. http://youtu.be/LdeKwafcL50 or better yet... http://youtu.be/_fWt0tlfBMg
Basically, thats what you need to achieve.
You shouldnt need to lean fully forward all the time, just over the areas you know are rough. Granted, the flex forks may be making it worse for you but Id rather have them, slow down on the bad props than get beat to death on every lawn. But thats me!

The only jerking I get is going up steep rough slopes but even then its rare now. I have the drive pretty much down pat, I have a 150hrs on this SZ. It still happens, just not often. I have to drive up a fairly steep, rough track just to load up the mower so is something I learnt pretty quickly. The only other time it happens is if I forget about a bad rut or hole. Not often as I know my properties pretty well.

I just watch a few vids I havent published and while I was going pretty slow (very long grass) I noticed when I did get rocked, there was no jerking of the sticks and Im able to nullify the body rock with my legs. I hold the sticks very low at the first bend. Thats less leverage on the sticks. Higher up is more responsive if that makes sense or need a lighter touch the higher up the sticks you hold them.[/QUOTE]


If im doing 5 -6 MPH or even KPH I am definately getting the same jerkyness over all the bumps, the smaller the bump the less the jerk, buts its still there and it only takes a bunch of small jerks to make for a very uncomfortable ride. As I say I get this jerking on all the properties I have mown so far. I can minimise the effects dramatically by not leaning on the back rest & being completely honest with you, yesturday I spend atleast 3 hrs mowing on the machine, 80-90 % of the time I was leaning forward, still get the bad jerking.

Regarding the levers, I have tried using fingers, tried using no hands, even tried backing off on the levers while the machine is jerking away. I know in those videos i am moving levers slightly, but I have trialled those things above so as far as I can tell you I have rulled out that any input from my hands is causing the jerks. Gee it would be so great if you were in sydney, if I could just see the way you use it going over ruts like that! The difficult thing with your video of the ants nest is i cant see you or the mower, just the camera shaking, the camera would shake just that much on my old dixon.

I have a background on racing BMX bikes over jumps as a teenager and whoops like in that video, also have owned a half a dozen dirt bikes, including a motorcross bike (yz426F, miss it a lot) which I used to ride to its limit over jumps etc, so I have had a lot of experiance in predicting rough terrain ahead etc as I did all this when younger, best time for learning. I would say Im reasonably althetic, so im not sure if your point was that I dont know how to allow for ruts and expect up coming ruts/rough terrain. I guess if your going by those videos then I can see why youd think that. But i was relaxing my whole body and just letting the mower do its thing, hense why its so dramatic! If my wife wasnt back at work now I would have her out with me doign some more footage of me, its just a difficult thing, have tried with my mobile phone resting in a tree but from a distance its not clear video.

You know the first thing that ever came to my mind when I started realising this jerking was an issue, was the hyrdaulics... so I had trialled all these things without hands on levers etc before even coming on this forum. When I first started using my new dixon, the hydros where very sensitive and if didnt take off very smooth on a driveway it would jerk madly, but i got the hang of that very very quickly. I guess another reason why my first thought on hustler was hydros. but so far with all my trying I havent managed to stop jerking, and i have tried and am still going to try.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 07:04 PM
Maybe the OP'ers sticks are in the high position?

You have to ride a ZTR like a horse.

But, I still question how these other (lesser) mowers supposedly rode better.

The Flex-Forks are smoother riding then the effects of smaller, lighter and more flexing caster arms of lesser ZTR's.

So that only leaves the rear tires as the variable. It's either pressure or sidewall stiffness.

But that being said, I didn't notice any difference between my 2006 and the 2012 demo.
Posted via Mobile Device

I noticed a difference immedietely in ride of the chasses itself but the flex forks really did work on the newer designed Super, the mower is superior but I do not like the added 200 pounds.

I would want to demo the newer unit on steep slopes because the weight would make it slide to the bottom more easily. I cut some really steep stuff.

His complaint is very valid, I had a guy tell me his new super was doing the same thing 3 months ago and it pissed him off good so if you all find a cure I will pass it along to him.

He claimed his old XR7 60 did not have the deck jump but the new one did, hopefully it is just the 60 and not the 72.

greenology
10-09-2012, 07:21 PM
I noticed a difference immedietely in ride of the chasses itself but the flex forks really did work on the newer designed Super, the mower is superior but I do not like the added 200 pounds.

I would want to demo the newer unit on steep slopes because the weight would make it slide to the bottom more easily. I cut some really steep stuff.

His complaint is very valid, I had a guy tell me his new super was doing the same thing 3 months ago and it pissed him off good so if you all find a cure I will pass it along to him.

He claimed his old XR7 60 did not have the deck jump but the new one did, hopefully it is just the 60 and not the 72.


i have cut some steep slopes on the hustler, same slopes as I did with the dixon, in the areas the dixon would stay on the slope and only slide downwards a little, the hustler slides down completely. this is on quite steep slope & would be simply the heavier weight. But its not much of an issue as this one is very steep, other slopes im on its slides slightly, whereby the old one wouldnt slide at all, but not enough to bother me so the handling on slopes is good considering its extra weight. But best to try for yourself off coarse.


I have used the 72" super z on the same ground as my 60", the 60" deck bounced around 10-15 times as opposed to only ever noticing 1 very slight bounce on the 72" over a decent sized rut. I put this down to the 72" deck being so much heavier. Also noticed that mower a little smoother, but it has a longer wheel base so hard to compare the two, plus was only for 2-3 mins use.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 07:49 PM
i have cut some steep slopes on the hustler, same slopes as I did with the dixon, in the areas the dixon would stay on the slope and only slide downwards a little, the hustler slides down completely. this is on quite steep slope & would be simply the heavier weight. But its not much of an issue as this one is very steep, other slopes im on its slides slightly, whereby the old one wouldnt slide at all, but not enough to bother me so the handling on slopes is good considering its extra weight. But best to try for yourself off coarse.


I have used the 72" super z on the same ground as my 60", the 60" deck bounced around 10-15 times as opposed to only ever noticing 1 very slight bounce on the 72" over a decent sized rut. I put this down to the 72" deck being so much heavier. Also noticed that mower a little smoother, but it has a longer wheel base so hard to compare the two, plus was only for 2-3 mins use.

Thanks for the input,these mowers really should have bigger tires. I have found on a big heavy Z a 72 is just a better mower and in the 48 to 60 range you are better off with a lighter duty Z, you have the finest quality Z made but it may be over made for you.

Do not let these guy's kid you. You start adding weight to a machine that is moving at a decent clip and you will turn it into a big fat pig quick! :laugh:

Good luck and I hope you solve your problem, may the force be with you :)

puppypaws
10-09-2012, 07:58 PM
i have cut some steep slopes on the hustler, same slopes as I did with the dixon, in the areas the dixon would stay on the slope and only slide downwards a little, the hustler slides down completely. this is on quite steep slope & would be simply the heavier weight. But its not much of an issue as this one is very steep, other slopes im on its slides slightly, whereby the old one wouldnt slide at all, but not enough to bother me so the handling on slopes is good considering its extra weight. But best to try for yourself off coarse.


I have used the 72" super z on the same ground as my 60", the 60" deck bounced around 10-15 times as opposed to only ever noticing 1 very slight bounce on the 72" over a decent sized rut. I put this down to the 72" deck being so much heavier. Also noticed that mower a little smoother, but it has a longer wheel base so hard to compare the two, plus was only for 2-3 mins use.

My 72 rides and operates I would say better than any ZTR made today, but yes, I have areas that if I hit them running very fast will make the deck jump, but it has a right to, the mower virtually goes airborne as fast as I mow.

I would think the 72 you tried would have jumped more, if weighing more...well that's according to the physics class I got from "Realslowww."

hustlermidwest
10-09-2012, 08:25 PM
I just came across your talks and I hope you don't mind I jump in. I saw the video of the jumping around you are having. I see the flex forks working as well as they can to keep up with the washboard type lawn. Yes the machine goes in excess of 15MPH but that is just for transport only. It is meant to go from point "A" to point "B" at 15MPH to cut down on transporting it to each job, not mow at that speed. With the limitations on blade tip speed no mower can mow that fast. What is your rear tire pressure at? 14lbs will really get you a hard ride. You can go down as low as 8lbs but me mindful of slopes and curbs. The flex forks are shown at dealers with the same thought of car dealers. When you go test drive a new car is it the stripped down version or does it have the options available being shown. I also noticed your arms are not on the armrests. Lower your hands down on the steering arms and that will allow you to use the arm rest, this will help with the jerking forward and backward. Think of the deck springs as a counter weight for the deck. The closer you bring the two set nuts together the lighter the deck becomes, the further you spread them the heavier it becomes. Any chance of seeing a side by side with another mower video?

Brian O

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 08:28 PM
My 72 rides and operates I would say better than any ZTR made today, but yes, I have areas that if I hit them running very fast will make the deck jump, but it has a right to, the mower virtually goes airborne as fast as I mow.

I would think the 72 you tried would have jumped more, if weighing more...well that's according to the physics class I got from "Realslowww." What I said was added weight would beat the sh it out of the operator all things being equal and hitting rough terrain going fast and for a machine with no real suspension 15 is pretty quick :) The Pupster :laugh:. I am just jealouse you have the mower I want but I cannot justify it at the momment.

puppypaws
10-09-2012, 08:29 PM
I just came across your talks and I hope you don't mind I jump in. I saw the video of the jumping around you are having. I see the flex forks working as well as they can to keep up with the washboard type lawn. Yes the machine goes in excess of 15MPH but that is just for transport only. It is meant to go from point "A" to point "B" at 15MPH to cut down on transporting it to each job, not mow at that speed. With the limitations on blade tip speed no mower can mow that fast. What is your rear tire pressure at? 14lbs will really get you a hard ride. You can go down as low as 8lbs but me mindful of slopes and curbs. The flex forks are shown at dealers with the same thought of car dealers. When you go test drive a new car is it the stripped down version or does it have the options available being shown. I also noticed your arms are not on the armrests. Lower your hands down on the steering arms and that will allow you to use the arm rest, this will help with the jerking forward and backward. Think of the deck springs as a counter weight for the deck. The closer you bring the two set nuts together the lighter the deck becomes, the further you spread them the heavier it becomes. Any chance of seeing a side by side with another mower video?

Brian O

Oh my gosh!

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 08:33 PM
I just came across your talks and I hope you don't mind I jump in. I saw the video of the jumping around you are having. I see the flex forks working as well as they can to keep up with the washboard type lawn. Yes the machine goes in excess of 15MPH but that is just for transport only. It is meant to go from point "A" to point "B" at 15MPH to cut down on transporting it to each job, not mow at that speed. With the limitations on blade tip speed no mower can mow that fast. What is your rear tire pressure at? 14lbs will really get you a hard ride. You can go down as low as 8lbs but me mindful of slopes and curbs. The flex forks are shown at dealers with the same thought of car dealers. When you go test drive a new car is it the stripped down version or does it have the options available being shown. I also noticed your arms are not on the armrests. Lower your hands down on the steering arms and that will allow you to use the arm rest, this will help with the jerking forward and backward. Think of the deck springs as a counter weight for the deck. The closer you bring the two set nuts together the lighter the deck becomes, the further you spread them the heavier it becomes. Any chance of seeing a side by side with another mower video?

Brian O

Oh yaa they can mow that fast,when these companies started putting 15 MPH hydro's on these Z's they really opened a new can of worms. You have to have a platform that can ride at that speed comfortably and mow. He feels he does not have that but for me I do where I cut.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Oh my gosh!

The Pupster is on the attack. :)

puppypaws
10-09-2012, 08:39 PM
What I said was added weight would beat the sh it out of the operator all things being equal and hitting rough terrain going fast and for a machine with no real suspension 15 is pretty quick :) The Pupster :laugh:. I am just jealouse you have the mower I want but I cannot justify it at the momment.

This is what an uninformed person that has no dog in the weight and longer wheel base mower rides better fight had to say. This means someone that has no idea if a heavier mower with a longer wheel base should ride better or not said it did ride better based on his unbiased opinion, so much better he did not want to recognize the comparison.

I have used the 72" super z on the same ground as my 60", the 60" deck bounced around 10-15 times as opposed to only ever noticing 1 very slight bounce on the 72" over a decent sized rut. I put this down to the 72" deck being so much heavier. Also noticed that mower a little smoother, but it has a longer wheel base so hard to compare the two, plus was only for 2-3 mins use.

Mark Oomkes
10-09-2012, 08:47 PM
I just came across your talks and I hope you don't mind I jump in. I saw the video of the jumping around you are having. I see the flex forks working as well as they can to keep up with the washboard type lawn. Yes the machine goes in excess of 15MPH but that is just for transport only. It is meant to go from point "A" to point "B" at 15MPH to cut down on transporting it to each job, not mow at that speed. With the limitations on blade tip speed no mower can mow that fast. What is your rear tire pressure at? 14lbs will really get you a hard ride. You can go down as low as 8lbs but me mindful of slopes and curbs. The flex forks are shown at dealers with the same thought of car dealers. When you go test drive a new car is it the stripped down version or does it have the options available being shown. I also noticed your arms are not on the armrests. Lower your hands down on the steering arms and that will allow you to use the arm rest, this will help with the jerking forward and backward. Think of the deck springs as a counter weight for the deck. The closer you bring the two set nuts together the lighter the deck becomes, the further you spread them the heavier it becomes. Any chance of seeing a side by side with another mower video?

Brian O

Just a suggestion from an outside observer. Especially since I used to be one of the guys out there mowing regularly.

If you don't want guys attempting to mow at 15 MPH, then don't allow the blades to be engaged at that speed. Like the Toro Groundsmasters, make it a 2 speed transmission.

I can guarantee that mowing guys will do their best to mow at that speed. Not saying this is the case with the OP, but I'm sure there are guys out there doing it.

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 08:55 PM
I would think the 72 you tried would have jumped more, if weighing more...well that's according to the physics class I got from "Realslowww."

If I was drinking a coffee, I would of spat it over the computer screen! Ouch! :laugh:

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 09:09 PM
If I was drinking a coffee, I would of spat it over the computer screen! Ouch! :laugh:

There are alot of variables here and opinion is #1 and design perameters are another from machine to machine but one fact is for sure if you add more weight to a machine and start running over obstacles at a clip you will feel it more all things being equal.

No matter what Puppy ownes it is the best of the best, we heard his 66 was a special 66 that Hustler specd perfectly just for Puppy and we have already started to hear the same thing about his 72.

Hey Pupster are you on the Excel payroll or something? :laugh:

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 09:30 PM
The Pupster is on the attack. :)

Dont worry mate, this comment would of made it come through my nose!

Had a good laugh at the pair of you!:laugh:

Ridin' Green
10-09-2012, 09:33 PM
I just came across your talks and I hope you don't mind I jump in. I saw the video of the jumping around you are having. I see the flex forks working as well as they can to keep up with the washboard type lawn. Yes the machine goes in excess of 15MPH but that is just for transport only. It is meant to go from point "A" to point "B" at 15MPH to cut down on transporting it to each job, not mow at that speed. With the limitations on blade tip speed no mower can mow that fast. What is your rear tire pressure at? 14lbs will really get you a hard ride. You can go down as low as 8lbs but me mindful of slopes and curbs. The flex forks are shown at dealers with the same thought of car dealers. When you go test drive a new car is it the stripped down version or does it have the options available being shown. I also noticed your arms are not on the armrests. Lower your hands down on the steering arms and that will allow you to use the arm rest, this will help with the jerking forward and backward. Think of the deck springs as a counter weight for the deck. The closer you bring the two set nuts together the lighter the deck becomes, the further you spread them the heavier it becomes. Any chance of seeing a side by side with another mower video?

Brian O

As soon as I read that line, I knew a lot of us would be quoting you and highlighting that particular line. I have been saying that same thing for a very long time, and my opinion was based off of doing some simple math to arrive at that conclusion. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

I agree with Mark Oomkes on making the deck only able to be engaged at whatever speed you determine to be appropriate below full tranport speed to avoid any confusion (and maybe save on some warranty issues from the harsh beating that will happen to many machines run on rough ground at that speed). If it is there to try at full sticks, anyone who gets the chance will.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 09:42 PM
i have cut some steep slopes on the hustler, same slopes as I did with the dixon, in the areas the dixon would stay on the slope and only slide downwards a little, the hustler slides down completely. this is on quite steep slope & would be simply the heavier weight. But its not much of an issue as this one is very steep, other slopes im on its slides slightly, whereby the old one wouldnt slide at all, but not enough to bother me so the handling on slopes is good considering its extra weight. But best to try for yourself off coarse.


I have used the 72" super z on the same ground as my 60", the 60" deck bounced around 10-15 times as opposed to only ever noticing 1 very slight bounce on the 72" over a decent sized rut. I put this down to the 72" deck being so much heavier. Also noticed that mower a little smoother, but it has a longer wheel base so hard to compare the two, plus was only for 2-3 mins use.

More than likely the smoothness of the 72 if it was the new style Super was because the added weight is loading the drive better and slowing it down a little, your problem could be the stiffer chasses is transmitting more energy to the deck by not flexing and slinging it up. The 72 deck being heavier stays glued better to the frame but on the riding chasses itself you do not want it be glued to the rough terrain you want it to skim over it at speed that is what will make a lighter machine ride better rather than a heavy one that rides down in the ruts.

It is all application dependent but for going fast comfortably over rough choppy terrain weight and a stiff frame suck! you just need good suspenders to compensate.

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 09:45 PM
Sorry guys but the SZ is capable of mowing at full stick. Just need the right conditions, ie short dry grass and a smooth surface. That said, the grass I cut is pretty dense like bermuda so not really worried about vacuum etc.

TNGrassCutter
10-09-2012, 09:50 PM
I mowed at full stuck a couple times today but only because it was very smooth. Most of the time I'm at half or less.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
10-09-2012, 09:52 PM
Sorry guys but the SZ is capable of mowing at full stick. Just need the right conditions, ie short dry grass and a smooth surface. That said, the grass I cut is pretty dense like bermuda so not really worried about vacuum etc.

It isn't a matter of suction/vacume mate. It is the fact that there simply aren't enough blade strikes per forward inch of travel to cut cleanly at that speed (much less than one side of the blade striking the grass, or less than one strike per forward inch of travel). I'm sure on some of that stuff you cut that is fairly stiff, it will do a fair to good job, but on many of the grass types we have here, especially in the northern half of this country, it simply won't leave the QOC that many of us need at that speed. There'd just be too many stragglers left behind.

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 10:23 PM
Dont worry mate, this comment would of made it come through my nose!

Had a good laugh at the pair of you!:laugh: You have to have a little spice to keep it fun.:)

Realslowww
10-09-2012, 10:27 PM
I mowed at full stuck a couple times today but only because it was very smooth. Most of the time I'm at half or less.
Posted via Mobile Device

With the right chasses, suspension,power and proper cutting deck for your area you can mow at full stick 15 alot but all those factors have to be correct.

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 10:44 PM
It isn't a matter of suction/vacume mate. It is the fact that there simply aren't enough blade strikes per forward inch of travel to cut cleanly at that speed (much less than one side of the blade striking the grass, or less than one strike per forward inch of travel). I'm sure on some of that stuff you cut that is fairly stiff, it will do a fair to good job, but on many of the grass types we have here, especially in the northern half of this country, it simply won't leave the QOC that many of us need at that speed. There'd just be too many stragglers left behind.

Sorry bro but on my prop's, if the ground is smooth and grass is short and dry, I can certainly cut at full stick. I do it often and cant tell the difference between slow or fast. Again, thats on my grass types in optimum conditions.
I havent mowed northern grass's so cant really comment on that except that from my understanding, that type of grass is pretty limp. Thats why people have problems with it ie vacuum. I can certainly see the need to slow down on limp grass but cutting low is a different story.

Heres a vid, first of 3 or 4. Keep in mind, this is my place so not much care was taken and I wasnt going to publish these. Ground was soft, wet and hadnt been mowed in probably over 4 weeks. Practically all my properties were like this or worse at the time. I put photos up if you remember back.
Anyway... http://youtu.be/bRuEiQV23MU

Mickhippy
10-09-2012, 11:56 PM
Nothing special about this one... http://youtu.be/rFuCxbEp-aQ

greenology
10-10-2012, 12:04 AM
I just came across your talks and I hope you don't mind I jump in. I saw the video of the jumping around you are having. I see the flex forks working as well as they can to keep up with the washboard type lawn. Yes the machine goes in excess of 15MPH but that is just for transport only. It is meant to go from point "A" to point "B" at 15MPH to cut down on transporting it to each job, not mow at that speed. With the limitations on blade tip speed no mower can mow that fast. What is your rear tire pressure at? 14lbs will really get you a hard ride. You can go down as low as 8lbs but me mindful of slopes and curbs. The flex forks are shown at dealers with the same thought of car dealers. When you go test drive a new car is it the stripped down version or does it have the options available being shown. I also noticed your arms are not on the armrests. Lower your hands down on the steering arms and that will allow you to use the arm rest, this will help with the jerking forward and backward. Think of the deck springs as a counter weight for the deck. The closer you bring the two set nuts together the lighter the deck becomes, the further you spread them the heavier it becomes. Any chance of seeing a side by side with another mower video?

Brian O

Hi Brian, thanks for your input. If i could say just one thing, I wish you would go back and re-read my posts. I have talked about all the issues you mention. I dont see the point in repeating myself...

mtmower
10-10-2012, 12:06 AM
Another full stick run!!:dizzy: Put one more tick on the "you can cut full stick" side. I'll say it till I'm blue You Can Cut Full Stick, I Cut Full Stick Every Week I've been cutting with SZs for the last 12 years and no you can't do it on every property, with every grass type but IMO I have some of the tougher grass types to cut. Can't be too rough, too steep, too thick, or too wet but when the conditions are right these machines save cut fast with a good cut. If your one to argue it you need to spend some time on a SZ. But be careful you may buy one.:)

I also think the weight debate is off base. When your talking crazy weight like tanks,yahts in rough waters, and the like, there is so much weight it starts to effect the surface it's riding on too the point the surface starts taking up movement or motion. A six wheel drive army truck weighs more than a Honda Civic but the Civic will ride better. IMO most of it comes down to absorption, weather that is the surface it's running on, tires, FF, springs and shocks, etc. You can make a Semi and a 15 pound mountain bike ride well given the right absorption.

Wheel base length on the other hand IMO is a factor as a long with how the machine is balanced. Hang the engine too far out the back and the front gets light but you'll be able to nose down a hill better.

I still think the distance between his ruts, rear tire psi, and possibly his deck springs are the root of his problem. The seat of my pants tells me my Kendas on the rear of my 460 ride worse than the Carlisles on my SZ at the same psi. My XR7 deck is so bloody heavy my wife can barley lift it and that's with 2" of adjustment at the front adjustment rods instead of the 1" they recommend.

Brian O can you verify if the springs on a vx4 are beefier providing more lift than earlier versions?

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 12:19 AM
I've never said you can't ever mow at full sticks, You can, but the conditions need to be right. For Mick, it's short and dry with the stiff turf he has. For you, you just laid out a bunch of conditions in your post for it.

I have said, and will stand by it too, that you can't do it for every day, anywhere mowing. The math doesn't lie. Unless conditions are ideal or as close as we'll ever see on this planet, there's going to be missed grass/stringers.

I've mowed at full sticks on my mower when the conditions allowed, and while it may not be 15 mph, it is supposed to be 12 mph and the QOC is nowhere near as good as it is at around 6-8 mph due to many more blade strikes per inch at the lower speed. It may have looke dalright to anyone else, but I can clearly see the difference between the two speeds.:)

greenology
10-10-2012, 12:57 AM
I still think the distance between his ruts, rear tire psi, and possibly his deck springs are the root of his problem. The seat of my pants tells me my Kendas on the rear of my 460 ride worse than the Carlisles on my SZ at the same psi. My XR7 deck is so bloody heavy my wife can barley lift it and that's with 2" of adjustment at the front adjustment rods instead of the 1" they recommend.

Gday, I have rulled out the idea that it is the distance between the ruts, I rule this out when I say the issue is there on all the properties I have tried it on so far, the only time it is a good ride is when there are no bumps. the reality is there are always bumps, i dont have the luxury of cutting golf courses all day, but I must say the majority of my jobs are on million dollar, some multi million dollar properties in rural sydney, so they arent paddocks they are decent lawns which I had a very comfortable ride on other zero turns cutting them.

Tyre pressure I havnt completely ruled out yet as I need a good low pressure gauge, but I can say I have let out a lot of pressure (not in those videos) but before I gave it to the dealer i had the tyres down to what Im sure is low & it made no noticable difference, im sure there is a difference but i couldnt feel it. But as I say I havnt confirmed i had 8 PSI I will do that soon, the very next step i am taking is putting on standard non-flex forks tomorrow morning and will be trying it out on a couple lawns. As I rode a toro yesturday very similar in size and weight to the hustler, it was like getting in a car with suspension in comparison to the SZ, it had standard forks so I woudl like to try standard forks on SZ before changing anything else.

The dealer has now got the weight kit and some new tyres to put on, the weight kit is the one designed for using a catcher on SZ, so there is a considerable amount of weight. I dont liek this idea much as noone else needs to use it, if it rectifies the problem then it will be worthwhile i suppose. I will take it in next week for those to be fitted.

greenology
10-10-2012, 12:59 AM
Nothing special about this one... http://youtu.be/rFuCxbEp-aQ

Ive had a brief look through yours vids, you dont happen to have any footage of you side on driving over ruts or bumps do you? I couldnt see any. the only thing I have seen so far is your head bopping up and down, cant see any jerking.

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 01:30 AM
Ive had a brief look through yours vids, you dont happen to have any footage of you side on driving over ruts or bumps do you? I couldnt see any. the only thing I have seen so far is your head bopping up and down, cant see any jerking.

Not really mate, I have a few more to go though.

Have to watch them in 720p or they look cr@p!
Have another look at http://youtu.be/bRuEiQV23MU . Im going very slowly and the rut not bad at all but keep clicking around the 8.43 mark. You can easily see my knee and leg taking up the shock. My head barely moves. I notice I do move the sticks a little but machine doesnt jerk. Its not a great example but still...

greenology
10-10-2012, 01:40 AM
Not really mate, I have a few more to go though.

Have to watch them in 720p or they look cr@p!
Have another look at http://youtu.be/bRuEiQV23MU . Im going very slowly and the rut not bad at all but keep clicking around the 8.43 mark. You can easily see my knee and leg taking up the shock. My head barely moves. I notice I do move the sticks a little but machine doesnt jerk. Its not a great example but still...

hmm yes i can see the jerking. Im getting that all the time, even with your feet your head still jerks a little and as u say its a minor rut. Thats something I have yet to feel on any other machine. In my case its really un acceptable, I must have rough lawns compared with everyone else. Anyway haent given up yet, still a few things to try.

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 03:23 AM
Next one.....http://youtu.be/4JSqpfZQJmY

greenology
10-10-2012, 03:55 AM
Next one.....http://youtu.be/4JSqpfZQJmY

Your lawns seem to get a lot of growth between cuts, do your clients try stretch out the cuts as far as they can? I try not to have most lawns any longer than 2 weeks, a few are weekly. Id hate to be spending $200 + per week just to have my lawns cut but in some cases its the only way.

i guess being in qld you have more rain than us down here?

Im still running with the mulch kit atm, but within a month or so we will start getting too much growth for me to continue mulching. I dont find the blades work as efficiently with mulching, i get straglers left behind (weeds & tall grasses) , unless cutting a nice lush thick grass, in which case the cut quality is very good.

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 04:10 AM
Your lawns seem to get a lot of growth between cuts, do your clients try stretch out the cuts as far as they can? I try not to have most lawns any longer than 2 weeks, a few are weekly. Id hate to be spending $200 + per week just to have my lawns cut but in some cases its the only way.

i guess being in qld you have more rain than us down here?

Im still running with the mulch kit atm, but within a month or so we will start getting too much growth for me to continue mulching. I dont find the blades work as efficiently with mulching, i get straglers left behind (weeds & tall grasses) , unless cutting a nice lush thick grass, in which case the cut quality is very good.

Mine are weekly or fortnightly, generally! Had heaps of rain this year, place was soaked. Some, like my place in the vid, didnt get done for 4,5 and 6 weeks! Just couldnt get on them!

I'll be interested to see how you go when you take the mulch kit off and discharge. If youve read my posts you'll see the problems Ive had with it. Not the long stuff like in these vids but just normal dry grass. Been doing my head in. I hope you have better luck!
That said, the actual cut is great, no stringers, only the occasional long (12"+) stemmy weed in thin areas.

TLS
10-10-2012, 07:50 AM
Greenology,

So you somehow think switching to rigid forks and flat free caster tires is going to help? Personally I wouldn't waste the energy. But then, maybe they are what's giving you the whiplash?

If you do go rigid, you'd need to get air filled front tires. Set them at 8psi and your golden!

A front weight kit is going to make pointing down a hill a dangerous situation. If anything, you should add a little weight to the back as you removed the ROPS I believe. However heavy that is, may be affecting things? On my demos , I had to leave it on and folded. If I bought one it would be removed. I remember the ROPS on my old JD was over 100 lbs!
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-10-2012, 09:44 AM
try some air fronts, in my opinion these mowers need flex forks.

puppypaws
10-10-2012, 09:49 AM
Another full stick run!!:dizzy: Put one more tick on the "you can cut full stick" side. I'll say it till I'm blue You Can Cut Full Stick, I Cut Full Stick Every Week I've been cutting with SZs for the last 12 years and no you can't do it on every property, with every grass type but IMO I have some of the tougher grass types to cut. Can't be too rough, too steep, too thick, or too wet but when the conditions are right these machines save cut fast with a good cut. If your one to argue it you need to spend some time on a SZ. But be careful you may buy one.:)




I think that pretty well answers the question, that yes you can mow at full stick with a Hustler Super Z mower and leave no grass standing, and if there was a problem with blade strikes this would theoretically be impossible.

The top speed on a Super Z is not for transport, but for mowing in good conditions, and if anyone has a problem believing this, call Hustler and they will answer your questions 620-327-4911.

TLS
10-10-2012, 09:58 AM
The top speed on a Super Z is not for transport, but for mowing in good conditions, and if anyone has a problem believing this, call Hustler and they will answer your questions 620-327-4911.

Puppy did you miss that this all started when the HUSTLER rep said it was just for transport, not cutting?

I, and all you other guys know that in proper conditions you CAN mow at full SuperZ speed. With today's new deck and more power then was ever dreamed back in 2005, they most certainly can!

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 10:08 AM
Puppy did you miss that this all started when the HUSTLER rep said it was just for transport, not cutting?

I, and all you other guys know that in proper conditions you CAN mow at full SuperZ speed. With today's new deck and more power then was ever dreamed back in 2005, they most certainly can!

That is what I have been saying. Rarely do most of us have the proper conditions though.

Puppy- just do the math sir. It isn't that hard to do, and it tells you that the strikes per inch of forwards travel are far too low for clean cutting at full speed under anything less than ideal conditions, especially on limp type grass.

GMLC
10-10-2012, 10:26 AM
I believe that was Hustler that just said top speed is for transport.

Can you cut at top speed, yes. Should you??
Posted via Mobile Device

hustlermidwest
10-10-2012, 10:33 AM
Gentlemen, I said the unit was design to go 15mph for transport. I didn't say it couldn't cut grass at that speed. The conditions have to be right for that to happen. If I said it can mow at 15mph everybody would expect it to cut 3" off without an issue. For those who believe the mower should not go that fast, there are limiters on the front dashboard to limit the throw of the sticks, hence lowering you max ground speed. Some owners de-tune the speed because of their workers.

Brian O

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 10:43 AM
I now remember why I stopped uploading vids, it takes for ever!
The vids Ive put up were all taken back in Feb and or March, so dont think these are recent. I really wasnt going to load these up but Ridin asked nicely!
Anyway, heres the last one for a while...http://youtu.be/-aeK7PpYBik

Realslowww
10-10-2012, 01:40 PM
Who are you kidding, your not working you are sittin on your a$$ having fun.

Where you live looks beautiful. :)

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 02:48 PM
I now remember why I stopped uploading vids, it takes for ever!
The vids Ive put up were all taken back in Feb and or March, so dont think these are recent. I really wasnt going to load these up but Ridin asked nicely!
Anyway, heres the last one for a while...http://youtu.be/-aeK7PpYBik

Mick, you got a pic of the blades you are using in that last vid? They really get that stuff out the door nicely.

BTW- Thanks mate.:)

puppypaws
10-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Puppy did you miss that this all started when the HUSTLER rep said it was just for transport, not cutting?

I, and all you other guys know that in proper conditions you CAN mow at full SuperZ speed. With today's new deck and more power then was ever dreamed back in 2005, they most certainly can!

The rep can say anything he likes, and it can be far from fact, and to prove that, listed below is Hustler's own written description, not mine, not yours, and not the reps. As with any description used to advertise, and for legal purposes, if Hustler considers their 15 mph speed on a Hustler Super Z to be used for transport purposes only, then that is the way it would be stated in their advertising, as well as their specifications, and it would be hard-word defined as saying...15 MPH Transport Speed, but as you see from their on words below, this is not the case...making whatever rep, and whoever else believes this; to be totally incorrect.

For anyone that cares to argue about hard facts you can read with your own eyes, take it up with Hustler, they wrote the description, and the description means their Super Z mower will travel up to 15 mph, and mow at that speed if conditions suit.

QUOTE:
"The Hustler Super Z™ is in a class by itself. Literally. The Industrial-Grade Super Z is built like a tank and rides like a thoroughbred - with a top speed of 15 mph. The new HyperDrive™ hydraulic system is engineered to run at higher psi levels than any other mower on the market. Its VX4™ deck technology delivers a clean cut and finish that complements its industrial muscle. The Super Z is backed by Hustler's longer Industrial-Grade warranty, not found on any other zero-turn mower. When you want the toughest, most capable mower, climb aboard the Super Z."

To further reiterate this, anyone knows a mower will ride good in a transport situaion such as on a road, but they are stating the mower rides like a thoroughbred, and up to a speed of 15 mph. This statement would not be needed if they believed the 15 mph top speed would only be utilized very little, when as someone said, like moving from point "A" to point "B."

Realslowww
10-10-2012, 04:16 PM
The rep can say anything he likes, and it can be far from fact, and to prove that, listed below is Hustler's own written description, not mine, not yours, and not the reps. As with any description used to advertise, and for legal purposes, if Hustler considers their 15 mph speed on a Hustler Super Z to be used for transport purposes only, then that is the way it would be stated in their advertising, as well as their specifications, and it would be hard-word defined as saying...15 MPH Transport Speed, but as you see from their on words below, this is not the case...making whatever rep, and whoever else believes this; to be totally incorrect.

For anyone that cares to argue about hard facts you can read with your own eyes, take it up with Hustler, they wrote the description, and the description means their Super Z mower will travel up to 15 mph, and mow at that speed if conditions suit.

QUOTE:
"The Hustler Super Z™ is in a class by itself. Literally. The Industrial-Grade Super Z is built like a tank and rides like a thoroughbred - with a top speed of 15 mph. The new HyperDrive™ hydraulic system is engineered to run at higher psi levels than any other mower on the market. Its VX4™ deck technology delivers a clean cut and finish that complements its industrial muscle. The Super Z is backed by Hustler's longer Industrial-Grade warranty, not found on any other zero-turn mower. When you want the toughest, most capable mower, climb aboard the Super Z."

To further reiterate this, anyone knows a mower will ride good in a transport situaion such as on a road, but they are stating the mower rides like a thoroughbred, and up to a speed of 15 mph. This statement would not be needed if they believed the 15 mph top speed would only be utilized very little, when as someone said, like moving from point "A" to point "B."

Hey Puppy do you know what the pulling capacity is?

puppypaws
10-10-2012, 04:27 PM
Hey Puppy do you know what the pulling capacity is?

Exactly, it pulls my 225 lbs, and that is all I ask of either Super Z, I own...

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 04:29 PM
Exactly, it pulls my 225 lbs, and that is all I ask of either Super Z, I own...

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Realslowww
10-10-2012, 05:57 PM
Exactly, it pulls my 225 lbs, and that is all I ask of either Super Z, I own... I found out it is weak like 500 pounds,seems like it may be underrated.

They should make it in a torque version, that is a major strike against it for me. They may be sand bagging on the pulling cap. I will try and get more info.

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 06:08 PM
The rep can say anything he likes, and it can be far from fact, and to prove that, listed below is Hustler's own written description, not mine, not yours, and not the reps. As with any description used to advertise, and for legal purposes, if Hustler considers their 15 mph speed on a Hustler Super Z to be used for transport purposes only, then that is the way it would be stated in their advertising, as well as their specifications, and it would be hard-word defined as saying...15 MPH Transport Speed, but as you see from their on words below, this is not the case...making whatever rep, and whoever else believes this; to be totally incorrect.

For anyone that cares to argue about hard facts you can read with your own eyes, take it up with Hustler, they wrote the description, and the description means their Super Z mower will travel up to 15 mph, and mow at that speed if conditions suit.

QUOTE:
"The Hustler Super Z™ is in a class by itself. Literally. The Industrial-Grade Super Z is built like a tank and rides like a thoroughbred - with a top speed of 15 mph. The new HyperDrive™ hydraulic system is engineered to run at higher psi levels than any other mower on the market. Its VX4™ deck technology delivers a clean cut and finish that complements its industrial muscle. The Super Z is backed by Hustler's longer Industrial-Grade warranty, not found on any other zero-turn mower. When you want the toughest, most capable mower, climb aboard the Super Z."

To further reiterate this, anyone knows a mower will ride good in a transport situaion such as on a road, but they are stating the mower rides like a thoroughbred, and up to a speed of 15 mph. This statement would not be needed if they believed the 15 mph top speed would only be utilized very little, when as someone said, like moving from point "A" to point "B."

Puppy-
after reading this post, I got to thinking- why not just ask Hustler directly instead of trying to decipher/interpret their advertising? So I did. The following is my e-mail to them, and the reply I just got back a few minutes ago.

I have been having a debate with some fellow LCO's about how fast the SZ can MOW (as opposed to go) without any issues of missing grass etc. I know under ideal conditions, it can probably mow at the advertised 15MPH, but what do you the Hustler Corp actually recommend, as in, is the top speed mostly for transport, or was the SZ designed to be used to mow at that top speed? What is your suggestion for average daily use regarding speed? We have taken into consideration that a lot of it depends on the ground conditions, type of lawn etc., and since your advertising doesn't make the distinction of exactly where that top speed was designed to generally be used, we would like to hear it from you directly.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXX

This was their reply-

XXXXX,
You kind of answered it yourself. 15mph is mainly for transport. As far as mowing, it is all on the conditions of the grass. Too fast and you'll leave uncut grass. Slow down till it does a good job.
In some situations you might need a kit or different blades for better cutting.
Jack

Jack Harper
Customer Service
Excel Industries

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 06:58 PM
Who are you kidding, your not working you are sittin on your a$$ having fun.

Where you live looks beautiful. :)

The vids when Im wearing the cut off sleeve shirt cutting the long grass was the first time I mowed my place with the new machine so yeah, was fun but now, the novelty has worn off.

Ridin' Im 95% sure they were just the Fusion blades that came with the machine. Excell 602771 PO I believe.
I agree that they do get the clippings out, if it wasnt for the occasional clump that gets caught up Id be a very happy man! As you know Ive never complained about the clumps cutting that sort of grass, its when the grass is short, where the XR7 deck would of done it without drama etc.
What mess's with my head is it can cut and discharge long wet grass very well a lot of the time but get it onto a patch of thick dry much shorter grass and it clumps. WTF.

GMLC
10-10-2012, 07:08 PM
Puppy-
after reading this post, I got to thinking- why not just ask Hustler directly instead of trying to decipher/interpret their advertising? So I did. The following is my e-mail to them, and the reply I just got back a few minutes ago.

I have been having a debate with some fellow LCO's about how fast the SZ can MOW (as opposed to go) without any issues of missing grass etc. I know under ideal conditions, it can probably mow at the advertised 15MPH, but what do you the Hustler Corp actually recommend, as in, is the top speed mostly for transport, or was the SZ designed to be used to mow at that top speed? What is your suggestion for average daily use regarding speed? We have taken into consideration that a lot of it depends on the ground conditions, type of lawn etc., and since your advertising doesn't make the distinction of exactly where that top speed was designed to generally be used, we would like to hear it from you directly.

Thank you for your help.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXX

This was their reply-

XXXXX,
You kind of answered it yourself. 15mph is mainly for transport. As far as mowing, it is all on the conditions of the grass. Too fast and you'll leave uncut grass. Slow down till it does a good job.
In some situations you might need a kit or different blades for better cutting.
Jack

Jack Harper
Customer Service
Excel Industries

LOL. I was going to call when I had time but you beat me to it with email. Thats what I figured they would say. Top speed is just that, a top speed. Nothing about cutting speed.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 07:23 PM
The vids when Im wearing the cut off sleeve shirt cutting the long grass was the first time I mowed my place with the new machine so yeah, was fun but now, the novelty has worn off.

Ridin' Im 95% sure they were just the Fusion blades that came with the machine. Excell 602771 PO I believe.
I agree that they do get the clippings out, if it wasnt for the occasional clump that gets caught up Id be a very happy man! As you know Ive never complained about the clumps cutting that sort of grass, its when the grass is short, where the XR7 deck would of done it without drama etc.
What mess's with my head is it can cut and discharge long wet grass very well a lot of the time but get it onto a patch of thick dry much shorter grass and it clumps. WTF.

As you know Mick, I follow your posts about the QOC issue, and I really can't understand it either.

I was watching your vids and paying close attention to the discharge whenever I could see it, to see if there were certain times that clippings would hang up at the rear corner of the opening. Most of the time, the majority of clippings were coming out along the front edge of the opening, but every so often, they would also come out right along the area you've been trying to fix/modify. While nothing was sticking or clumping in the vids at that point of the opening, it may be something for you to study for yourself since you are there looking at everything (including the grass before cutting) in person. Maybe you'll see something in the vids that gives you a clue to something you've not thought of before?

I know that if you did get it figured out, I'd be much more inclined towards one exactly like it in the future, because that is otherwise a fine machine.

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 07:25 PM
LOL. I was going to call when I had time but you beat me to it with email. Thats what I figured they would say. Top speed is just that, a top speed. Nothing about cutting speed.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yea, sometimes all the he said she said stuff gets us no where, so when that happens, I try to go right to the source for the answers. I couldn't find a phone number in their contact section, so I sent the e-mail, and it is a good thing.

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 07:44 PM
I know that if you did get it figured out, I'd be much more inclined towards one exactly like it in the future, because that is otherwise a fine machine.

Im certainly trying! Ive watched those vids many times, the one where I said to slow the vid down kind of gives the best example (although yes, there is a lot of grass for sure). It discharges really well until it throws full width of the chute, clippings build up on the rear of the chute, some gets hit by the blade and the rest falls to the ground. While clippings come out the front of the chute there is no problem! Im just trying to stop the build up at the rear of the chute.

Anyway, Ive said all that enough times already. Im just waiting on Hustler to help me out with it............ :laugh:

Once we get a little more growth (expecting some rain today finally) Ill try and get someone to hold the cam and get the clumping on vid.

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 08:34 PM
Anyway, Ive said all that enough times already. Im just waiting on Hustler to help me out with it............ :laugh:

Once we get a little more growth (expecting some rain today finally) Ill try and get someone to hold the cam and get the clumping on vid.

It's OK mate, say it 'til they listen;)

The video that you are talking about making would be very interesting to me. I have always had a fascination with this type of stuff. Looking forward to that one for sure.

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 08:57 PM
It's OK mate, say it 'til they listen;)

The video that you are talking about making would be very interesting to me. I have always had a fascination with this type of stuff. Looking forward to that one for sure.

I'll be sure to get something up, just may take a while. Maybe an inch of rain today then back to fine. Place is so dry its going to take a lot more than that to kick things on. Not much mowing going on atm.

puppypaws
10-10-2012, 09:59 PM
Yea, sometimes all the he said she said stuff gets us no where, so when that happens, I try to go right to the source for the answers. I couldn't find a phone number in their contact section, so I sent the e-mail, and it is a good thing.

The statement Jack made was generic answer, and I've dealt with enough people at Hustler when asking complicated questions to realize you can ask numbers of different people, and get numbers of different answers.

Now, let's get down to hard evidence as if it were presented in a court of law to be proven as right or wrong.

A Judge and jury will decide based on written documentation as to whether Hustler actually meant, but did not write in their advertisements or specifications as to the 15 mph top speed being used as a transport speed only. I can tell you from dealing with many legal issues over time that it would be decided by a court as to believing when Hustler wrote their advertisement, and to back it up even further, as written in their specifications, that they were portraying to the general buying public their mower was a machine used to cut grass at up to 15 mph. If this is not what was meant when legally describing what the 15 mph could be used for, then it would definitely been described as a "15 MPH Transport Speed," and if they had really been serious about making sure the buying public did not attempt to mow at 15 mph, they would have advertised as a "15 MPH Transport Speed Only."

To back this up even further, they would pull in so-call expert witnesses such as some in this thread that have already stated they mow grass at top speed on their Hustler Super Z when conditions allow. These people would sit on the witness stand and when asked the question of whether they use the 15 mph top speed more of the time for mowing, or more of the time for transport only, what do you think would be said. If I'm the one on the stand under oath, I would truthfully say, I use the mower at top speed for mowing grass 50% of the time, and for transporting approximately 1% of the time, or less.

Put me on the side arguing the case in favor of the 15 mph being advertised as a speed you can mow grass up to, and you others on the side of making the Judge and jury believe that although Hustler did not specify in their advertisements, or specifications, the 15 mph top speed was meant to be utilized for transport only, and actually would not cut grass at the listed 15 mph.

Now be honest, who do you think will win this case?

lkendall
10-10-2012, 10:20 PM
I have the solution.. Since it is obviously the mower, sell it to me at a large discount and you can go buy a smoother mower?? hmmm

Ridin' Green
10-10-2012, 10:44 PM
The statement Jack made was generic answer, and I've dealt with enough people at Hustler when asking complicated questions to realize you can ask numbers of different people, and get numbers of different answers.

Now, let's get down to hard evidence as if it were presented in a court of law to be proven as right or wrong.

A Judge and jury will decide based on written documentation as to whether Hustler actually meant, but did not write in their advertisements or specifications as to the 15 mph top speed being used as a transport speed only. I can tell you from dealing with many legal issues over time that it would be decided by a court as to believing when Hustler wrote their advertisement, and to back it up even further, as written in their specifications, that they were portraying to the general buying public their mower was a machine used to cut grass at up to 15 mph. If this is not what was meant when legally describing what the 15 mph could be used for, then it would definitely been described as a "15 MPH Transport Speed," and if they had really been serious about making sure the buying public did not attempt to mow at 15 mph, they would have advertised as a "15 MPH Transport Speed Only."

To back this up even further, they would pull in so-call expert witnesses such as some in this thread that have already stated they mow grass at top speed on their Hustler Super Z when conditions allow. These people would sit on the witness stand and when asked the question of whether they use the 15 mph top speed more of the time for mowing, or more of the time for transport only, what do you think would be said. If I'm the one on the stand under oath, I would truthfully say, I use the mower at top speed for mowing grass 50% of the time, and for transporting approximately 1% of the time, or less.

Put me on the side arguing the case in favor of the 15 mph being advertised as a speed you can mow grass up to, and you others on the side of making the Judge and jury believe that although Hustler did not specify in their advertisements, or specifications, the 15 mph top speed was meant to be utilized for transport only, and actually would not cut grass at the listed 15 mph.

Now be honest, who do you think will win this case?

Something tells me that if he has sided with you, you would have told me "There you have it, straight from Hustler. Now do you believe it?"

Your court anaolgy is amusing with all due respect, but not a very accurate representation of how it works. You're not the only one here to have been involved in court cases before.

Re-read the man's reply to me. He does not say that it can't mow at top speed. He does say that it is designed basically for transport, but can be used under ideal conditions to mow when they present themselves.

I find it very interesting that you know Hustlers intent better than the man they have hired to represent them, and to answer questions like mine. As I said, if he would have told me I was wrong, you would more than likely have sung his praises and rubbed my nose in it. He didn't agree with you, so now you want to discount/discredit his statement?

mtmower
10-10-2012, 10:44 PM
Im certainly trying! Ive watched those vids many times, the one where I said to slow the vid down kind of gives the best example (although yes, there is a lot of grass for sure). It discharges really well until it throws full width of the chute, clippings build up on the rear of the chute, some gets hit by the blade and the rest falls to the ground. While clippings come out the front of the chute there is no problem! Im just trying to stop the build up at the rear of the chute.

Anyway, Ive said all that enough times already. Im just waiting on Hustler to help me out with it............ :laugh:

Once we get a little more growth (expecting some rain today finally) Ill try and get someone to hold the cam and get the clumping on vid.

Mick, I had called Hustler a couple weeks ago on a non-related item and talked to Dan (didn't get a last name). After talking to me a little I picked his brain on any updates, new models, etc. Asked about fixes for the VX4 discharge and brought up you and your issue up. He laughed and said he just got back from down under visiting dealers and wish he'd been aware. Australia is part of the territory he covers. I gave him your LS screen name. He seem genuinely interested and acted as if he'd attempt contacting you. Figure it couldn't hurt. Hope he gives you the silver bullet.

Mickhippy
10-10-2012, 11:01 PM
Mick, I had called Hustler a couple weeks ago on a non-related item and talked to Dan (didn't get a last name). After talking to me a little I picked his brain on any updates, new models, etc. Asked about fixes for the VX4 discharge and brought up you and your issue up. He laughed and said he just got back from down under visiting dealers and wish he'd been aware. Australia is part of the territory he covers. I gave him your LS screen name. He seem genuinely interested and acted as if he'd attempt contacting you. Figure it couldn't hurt. Hope he gives you the silver bullet.

Man, I dont know what to say but, thank you very much! I would like nothing more than to sing the praises of all aspects of the SZ, Im over the tank issue (pointless stressing about it) but the discharge is another matter.

I have been in contact with the importers here, its how I got the ok to do those mods but havent had any help with it, except from my friendly local Scag dealer.

I truly hope to hear from him!

Again, thanks a heap mate!

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 04:06 AM
Something tells me that if he has sided with you, you would have told me "There you have it, straight from Hustler. Now do you believe it?"

Your court anaolgy is amusing with all due respect, but not a very accurate representation of how it works. You're not the only one here to have been involved in court cases before.

Re-read the man's reply to me. He does not say that it can't mow at top speed. He does say that it is designed basically for transport, but can be used under ideal conditions to mow when they present themselves.

I find it very interesting that you know Hustlers intent better than the man they have hired to represent them, and to answer questions like mine. As I said, if he would have told me I was wrong, you would more than likely have sung his praises and rubbed my nose in it. He didn't agree with you, so now you want to discount/discredit his statement?

All speed can be considered transport speed if the mower is moving from one point to another, so we'll just say some of us prefer to mow at top transport speed more than at the slower transport speeds, but don't let anyone say you can't mow grass at a Super Z's top speed because it is done every day, and I've done it with many different Super Z mowers for over 10 yrs.

Mowing grass at a Hustler Super Z's top speed has definitely be proven by many different testimonies (including "Mickhippy"), and for someone to say the calculations to not work due to lack of blade strikes for this to be possible, well, let's just say the calculator must be off.

Quote:

"Re-read the man's reply to me. He does not say that it can't mow at top speed. He does say that it is designed basically for transport, but can be used under ideal conditions to mow when they present themselves."

It could also be said, "he does not say that the top speed is designed basically for mowing, but will also be used for transport in certain situations." This would sound more reasonable since the word "transport" is never mentioned by Hustler in any written form.

Mickhippy
10-11-2012, 04:51 AM
Speaking of top speed, watch this but pay attention at 10.32 and listen to what he says when he gets back to the cam. I cracked up!
http://youtu.be/6vAvGTCJjF8

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 11:55 AM
Speaking of top speed, watch this but pay attention at 10.32 and listen to what he says when he gets back to the cam. I cracked up!
http://youtu.be/6vAvGTCJjF8

I like the Cheetah, and I believe the Scag Velocity Plus deck is probably the best all-around deck on the market. With that said, this grass is at a thickness and dryness level enabling it to be cut perfectly. I could go pass for pass beside him at the speed he was running, and a person could not tell with the naked eye which mower cut each pass.

I think, which he did not mention, but his cut was pretty equal in what he described as the larger grass at the higher speed, which would have been in the 15 mph range, if the actual speed with blades turn off and deck up is truly 16 mph.

I think someone said you could not cut at that speed without leaving uncut grass, and this was due to the blades not turning fast enough according to his calculations...WRONG...and I think this gentleman even brought that out when saying, to cut grass at maximum speed the property would need to be perfectly smooth, he is basing that statement from a ride standpoint, and says nothing about it not being able to cut grass at that speed.

I watched his mower as he moved over this property, and it would be considered relatively smooth, if not, he would've had a hard time staying in the seat while crossing it at top speed, and as you noticed, there was no problem.

Realslowww
10-11-2012, 12:39 PM
Speaking of top speed, watch this but pay attention at 10.32 and listen to what he says when he gets back to the cam. I cracked up!
http://youtu.be/6vAvGTCJjF8

I like the Scag as well for the fact that they are built like art but the overall design is no match for the Super,the Super being so simple in design and less joints parts and so forth is what makes it a 15 MPH mower that can take the punishment that mowing at 15 MPH brings with it over rough terrain without having to wrench the chasses because of how simply made they are.

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 02:38 PM
I like the Scag as well for the fact that they are built like art but the overall design is no match for the Super,the Super being so simple in design and less joints parts and so forth is what makes it a 15 MPH mower that can take the punishment that mowing at 15 MPH brings with it over rough terrain without having to wrench the chasses because of how simply made they are.

You know a mower can't cut grass at 15 mph, the blades (according to someone's calculations) just can't turn fast enough to hit all the standing grass...but this is a facetious statement, just added that because many will take take the statement as what I actually believe.

I will totally agree with you on this point, there is no ztr built today with the strength and simplicity of a Hustler Super Z, and this is the reason I continue to buy the Super Z over other mowers. I do want to run a Cheetah for a comparison, and the first thing I will do is check the speed by distance and time, which is more accurate than GPS.

GMLC
10-11-2012, 04:45 PM
You know a mower can't cut grass at 15 mph, the blades (according to someone's calculations) just can't turn fast enough to hit all the standing grass...but this is a facetious statement, just added that because many will take take the statement as what I actually believe.

I will totally agree with you on this point, there is no ztr built today with the strength and simplicity of a Hustler Super Z, and this is the reason I continue to buy the Super Z over other mowers. I do want to run a Cheetah for a comparison, and the first thing I will do is check the speed by distance and time, which is more accurate than GPS.

You said it yourself, math is math. Numbers are numbers whether a distance/time calculation or blade tip speed/area calculation.

I know for a fact that Scag not only reccomends not mowing at top speed they dont even recommend mowing in high gear on the cheetah's 2 speed trans. Apparently Hustler feels the same way. And im sorry you get different answers depending on who you talk to at Hustler. That speaks volumes in itself!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-11-2012, 05:31 PM
You can't mow everything at top speed but I was able to mow 2 week old bahai with a Super in the summer as long as it was not to thick at top speed,the XR7 was specifically designed for that.

I wqs real skeptical as well until I bougt one back in 06. :)

Realslowww
10-11-2012, 05:35 PM
You know a mower can't cut grass at 15 mph, the blades (according to someone's calculations) just can't turn fast enough to hit all the standing grass...but this is a facetious statement, just added that because many will take take the statement as what I actually believe.

I will totally agree with you on this point, there is no ztr built today with the strength and simplicity of a Hustler Super Z, and this is the reason I continue to buy the Super Z over other mowers. I do want to run a Cheetah for a comparison, and the first thing I will do is check the speed by distance and time, which is more accurate than GPS.T

The Scag's are beautiful but also Cobbie at the same time. :laugh:

Mickhippy
10-11-2012, 06:00 PM
I just thought it was funny how he goes flat stick towards the back of the property and at 10.32 he hits something and cr@ps his pants, then comes back and says "ok, full speeds not for mowing" I dont think he was referring to the cut but the way he almost crashed it!

What I did notice was the engine bogging down when he pushes the sticks forward in high gear. That grass was long, but thin and dry. Easy stuff!

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 06:16 PM
I just thought it was funny how he goes flat stick towards the back of the property and at 10.32 he hits something and cr@ps his pants, then comes back and says "ok, full speeds not for mowing" I dont think he was referring to the cut but the way he almost crashed it!

What I did notice was the engine bogging down when he pushes the sticks forward in high gear. That grass was long, but thin and dry. Easy stuff!

That mower needs more engine power, maybe not if all he cuts is like the grass in the video, but put the mower into something like crabgrass and it would really cut his productivity. That could be easily remedied with the big block 36 hp Vanguard. The grass that mower was cutting, the engine should have never changed sounds, zero rpm drop without need of the governor.

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 06:16 PM
I just thought it was funny how he goes flat stick towards the back of the property and at 10.32 he hits something and cr@ps his pants, then comes back and says "ok, full speeds not for mowing" I dont think he was referring to the cut but the way he almost crashed it!

What I did notice was the engine bogging down when he pushes the sticks forward in high gear. That grass was long, but thin and dry. Easy stuff!

It looked like whatever he hit bucked him up off the seat enough to kill the blades.

Realslowww
10-11-2012, 06:20 PM
That mower needs more engine power, maybe not if all he cuts is like the grass in the video, but put the mower into something like crabgrass and it would really cut his productivity. That could be easily remedied with the big block 36 hp Vanguard. The grass that mower was cutting, the engine should have never changed sounds, zero rpm drop without need of the governor.?

Why do you say a Vangaurd ?

Mickhippy
10-11-2012, 06:21 PM
It looked like whatever he hit bucked him up off the seat enough to kill the blades.

Exactly!

Just realised, this thread has been thoroughly hijacked!

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 06:24 PM
It looked like whatever he hit bucked him up off the seat enough to kill the blades.

I know you believe the blades just can't turn fast enough to cut grass at the speed of the Cheetah in the video, so how do you suppose it performed that miracle?

If the blades can't turn fast enough, where is the standing grass left in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMZfRGSxFgg

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 06:28 PM
You know a mower can't cut grass at 15 mph, the blades (according to someone's calculations) just can't turn fast enough to hit all the standing grass...but this is a facetious statement, just added that because many will take take the statement as what I actually believe.

I will totally agree with you on this point, there is no ztr built today with the strength and simplicity of a Hustler Super Z, and this is the reason I continue to buy the Super Z over other mowers. I do want to run a Cheetah for a comparison, and the first thing I will do is check the speed by distance and time, which is more accurate than GPS.

You know, I normally respect your opinions, but when you start whining like a baby because I posted the truth straight from Hustler, you make yourself look very small.

If you want to come at me, then come on with it. No need to post "someone said". Everyone knows I said it. I'll stand by it. Bring your mower up here and see just how much grass it misses at full sticks during the summer months. Just because you mow several acres on a farm, does not make you the end all be all of mower knowledge. Nor does having more than one Z. Many of us have cut as much grass as you have or more, and have some pretty good ideas about what works and what doesn't. Until you've mowed all over the country you have no idea of what works anywhere else other than your immediate area.

Like I said DO THE MATH. The math is what it is. Numbers don't lie. The numbers say that the odds are very high for lots of stringers being left behind, especially on northern turf.

Just because the crap you cut is very stiff and you can cut it clean enough for your satisfaction, doesn't mean it would pass everyone else's standards- LCO or customer. Nor does it mean that your mower willl do it on any other turf grass outside of what you are cutting.

Mickhippy
10-11-2012, 06:37 PM
Ok you two, play nice!

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 07:26 PM
You know, I normally respect your opinions, but when you start whining like a baby because I posted the truth straight from Hustler, you make yourself look very small.

If you want to come at me, then come on with it. No need to post "someone said". Everyone knows I said it. I'll stand by it. Bring your mower up here and see just how much grass it misses at full sticks during the summer months. Just because you mow several acres on a farm, does not make you the end all be all of mower knowledge. Nor does having more than one Z. Many of us have cut as much grass as you have or more, and have some pretty good ideas about what works and what doesn't. Until you've mowed all over the country you have no idea of what works anywhere else other than your immediate area.

Like I said DO THE MATH. The math is what it is. Numbers don't lie. The numbers say that the odds are very high for lots of stringers being left behind, especially on northern turf.

Just because the crap you cut is very stiff and you can cut it clean enough for your satisfaction, doesn't mean it would pass everyone else's standards- LCO or customer. Nor does it mean that your mower willl do it on any other turf grass outside of what you are cutting.

The blades probably don't turn as fast in Michigan, could be the air is just much thinner that far north, that may why the "ODDS" are very high for lots of stringers being left.

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 07:35 PM
I know you believe the blades just can't turn fast enough to cut grass at the speed of the Cheetah in the video, so how do you suppose it performed that miracle?

If the blades can't turn fast enough, where is the standing grass left in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMZfRGSxFgg

If you are referring to the scene where he drives down the side of the driveway at full sticks, I dare you to prove that there ISN'T any standing grass, because you can't. The video is taken from too far away, not to mention he isn't taking more than an inch or two off right there. He isn't going near full sticks anywhere else in the video while close enough to get a good look at the cut. Maybe it's alright with you to do butcher work, but for those of us who depend on doing this for our income, we have more to think about than just bragging about having the fastest or strongest mower on some forum. We need to give the best we can or run the risk of losing an account to someone else in a time when LCO's are everywhere now.


Apparently you have no idea of what I believe, so don't put words into my mouth. You are arrogant in the extreme sometimes. The guy from Hustler sends me a reply with what they recommend, I post it, and now it's my fault that they happen to agree with me and not you?:hammerhead:

If you want to mow your grass at full sticks, be my guest, but it doesn't make you right. Some guys have grass that they can geta way with it on, soome don't. You simply can't tell everyone here that it's ok with no caveat included about grass type or condition.

I can drive 120 mph on the ice too. It doesn't mean it's the best thing to do.

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 07:37 PM
The blades probably don't turn as fast in Michigan, could be the air is just much thinner that far north, that may why the "ODDS" are very high for lots of stringers being left.

If you can dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with BS right?. You sound like obama did the other night while getting his butt whooped. :rolleyes:

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 07:52 PM
I know you believe the blades just can't turn fast enough to cut grass at the speed of the Cheetah in the video, so how do you suppose it performed that miracle?

If the blades can't turn fast enough, where is the standing grass left in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMZfRGSxFgg

I watched the video. It looks to me like all he did was go over the cliipings that he had already dropped from the previous runs. No big feat there.

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 07:53 PM
Exactly!

Just realised, this thread has been thoroughly hijacked!

Juuts something to fill the time until the OP comes back with more info.:)

puppypaws
10-11-2012, 08:06 PM
If you are referring to the scene where he drives down the side of the driveway at full sticks, I dare you to prove that there ISN'T any standing grass, because you can't. The video is taken from too far away, not to mention he isn't taking more than an inch or two off right there. He isn't going near full sticks anywhere else in the video while close enough to get a good look at the cut. Maybe it's alright with you to do butcher work, but for those of us who depend on doing this for our income, we have more to think about than just bragging about having the fastest or strongest mower on some forum. We need to give the best we can or run the risk of losing an account to someone else in a time when LCO's are everywhere now.


Apparently you have no idea of what I believe, so don't put words into my mouth. You are arrogant in the extreme sometimes. The guy from Hustler sends me a reply with what they recommend, I post it, and now it's my fault that they happen to agree with me and not you?:hammerhead:

If you want to mow your grass at full sticks, be my guest, but it doesn't make you right. Some guys have grass that they can geta way with it on, soome don't. You simply can't tell everyone here that it's ok with no caveat included about grass type or condition.

I can drive 120 mph on the ice too. It doesn't mean it's the best thing to do.

You've never heard me tell everyone they could go out and cut grass at 15 mph, but I have said you can cut grass in the right conditions that fast, and some have chimed in and said they did the same.

I think you can look back, and I feel assured anyone reading this that knows me has heard me say many times that I can cut grass at top speed because of being on relatively smooth terrain, and having stiff blade dryer type southern grasses to cut. I have always advocated that northern limp blade grasses are much more difficult to get a clean cut on, and you can find statements I've made that if cutting much above 3" the XR-7 Hustler deck would not give a clean cut in northern grasses at any speed.

I have also said that the Exmark Ultra Cut deck performed best in northern grass due to its more powerful suction, but you would be forced to scrape the deck more often than a deck such as the Scag Velocity Plus deck with its hybrid tunnel design.

Now, for you to say that it is impossible to cut grass at 15 mph due to your calculations showing a lack of blade tip speed may be correct as you saw it on paper, but you cannot disregard the fact that several besides myself in this thread, and many more throughout LawnSite have stated they do cut grass at those fast speeds.

So now, if you will concede that yes, it is possible to cut grass in the right conditions at 15 mph, and your calculations may not be exact in a real world cutting scenario, I will concede that I agree with you.

Ridin' Green
10-11-2012, 09:31 PM
You've never heard me tell everyone they could go out and cut grass at 15 mph, but I have said you can cut grass in the right conditions that fast, and some have chimed in and said they did the same.

I think you can look back, and I feel assured anyone reading this that knows me has heard me say many times that I can cut grass at top speed because of being on relatively smooth terrain, and having stiff blade dryer type southern grasses to cut. I have always advocated that northern limp blade grasses are much more difficult to get a clean cut on, and you can find statements I've made that if cutting much above 3" the XR-7 Hustler deck would not give a clean cut in northern grasses at any speed.

I have also said that the Exmark Ultra Cut deck performed best in northern grass due to its more powerful suction, but you would be forced to scrape the deck more often than a deck such as the Scag Velocity Plus deck with its hybrid tunnel design.

Now, for you to say that it is impossible to cut grass at 15 mph due to your calculations showing a lack of blade tip speed may be correct as you saw it on paper, but you cannot disregard the fact that several besides myself in this thread, and many more throughout LawnSite have stated they do cut grass at those fast speeds.

So now, if you will concede that yes, it is possible to cut grass in the right conditions at 15 mph, and your calculations may not be exact in a real world cutting scenario, I will concede that I agree with you.

puppy-


in both this thread, and several others in which we've both posted in the past, I have said repeatedly that you can do it under the right conditions. Feel free to go back check for yourself. All I have said is that the numbers say it is not wise to do since the blade strikes per inch of forwards travel are so low. Many manu's advertise the high BTS's of their decks by including remarks such as "...more blades strikes per inch" etc, so I have to assume it's something they take into conmsideration. It's a factor they are certainly aware of and it helps them sell their product. Like I said, if you can do it, and are satisfied with the results, that's fine by me. I just don't think it serves the mowing community at large to post blanket statements that it is ok to do or that the cut bis going to be acceptable. It can be done, but only in the right conditions.

Realslowww
10-11-2012, 10:18 PM
puppy-


in both this thread, and several others in which we've both posted in the past, I have said repeatedly that you can do it under the right conditions. Feel free to go back check for yourself. All I have said is that the numbers say it is not wise to do since the blade strikes per inch of forwards travel are so low. Many manu's advertise the high BTS's of their decks by including remarks such as "...more blades strikes per inch" etc, so I have to assume it's something they take into conmsideration. It's a factor they are certainly aware of and it helps them sell their product. Like I said, if you can do it, and are satisfied with the results, that's fine by me. I just don't think it serves the mowing community at large to post blanket statements that it is ok to do or that the cut bis going to be acceptable. It can be done, but only in the right conditions.

One thing you can do is put smaller pullies on the blade spindles to speed them up, a 72 all things given are equal will have a faster tip speed over a 60.

Pupster has a huge area to mow and he found what works for him,on large properties I have found it works for me too.

I am not going back to a 10 or 12 MPH Z after running a faster unit. It all depends on weather you can get away with it for your conditions.

The Pupster means no harm he is just excited about his new toy. :)

TNGrassCutter
10-11-2012, 10:26 PM
One thing you can do is put smaller pullies on the blade spindles to speed them up, a 72 all things given are equal will have a faster tip speed over a 60.

Pupster has a huge area to mow and he found what works for him,on large properties I have found it works for me too.

I am not going back to a 10 or 12 MPH Z after running a faster unit. It all depends on weather you can get away with it for your conditions.

The Pupster means no harm he is just excited about his new toy. :)

A 72 will not have a faster blade tip speed than a 60 if all things are equal. I've repeated this to you many times. A 72s blade is about 2 inches longer on each end than a 60s blades. Therefore it must treble further to make one rotation. Let me give you the simplest example I can. Two race cars are running exactly the same speed at Daytona one car(60) is hugging the inside line, the other (72) is running next to the wall. Which one will finish their lap first? Ding ding ding the 60 will because its total distance is a little shorter than the distance the 72 covers.
Posted via Mobile Device

greenology
10-11-2012, 11:32 PM
Greenology,

So you somehow think switching to rigid forks and flat free caster tires is going to help? Personally I wouldn't waste the energy. But then, maybe they are what's giving you the whiplash?

If you do go rigid, you'd need to get air filled front tires. Set them at 8psi and your golden!

A front weight kit is going to make pointing down a hill a dangerous situation. If anything, you should add a little weight to the back as you removed the ROPS I believe. However heavy that is, may be affecting things? On my demos , I had to leave it on and folded. If I bought one it would be removed. I remember the ROPS on my old JD was over 100 lbs!
Posted via Mobile Device


I swapped to rigid forks yest, was only able to cut 1 lawn, still seemed rough but if anything not as bad, mosty definately not a rougher ride..? Just havnt had a chance to give it a decent go, been so busy with other jobs. Plus raining. Will hopefully be able to get another go on it on weekend before I change forks back to flex ready for the hustler rep on monday morning.

Maybe as you suggest, air tyres and rigid forks and I might be ok.

I did take the ROPS off, do you really think removing these would cause a rougher ride? (Mick is runing his without, his is ok), the weight from those rops i think are almost directly over the rear wheels, rather than towards the back end. In a way its a hazard for me to use zero turn with rops, I have been going along at speed in past on an older mower and misjudged a tree branch height, that wasnt a good experience however luckily wasnt too serious.

Realslowww
10-11-2012, 11:50 PM
A 72 will not have a faster blade tip speed than a 60 if all things are equal. I've repeated this to you many times. A 72s blade is about 2 inches longer on each end than a 60s blades. Therefore it must treble further to make one rotation. Let me give you the simplest example I can. Two race cars are running exactly the same speed at Daytona one car(60) is hugging the inside line, the other (72) is running next to the wall. Which one will finish their lap first? Ding ding ding the 60 will because its total distance is a little shorter than the distance the 72 covers.
Posted via Mobile Device Your a simple simon :laugh:,we need to get you enrolled in the physics class as well, the spindle pulleys on the deck make the same degree of rotation in the same time weather it is a 60 or a 72 all things being equal but the longer blade of the 72 covers more distance in that time making it have a faster tip speed. your analogy is flawed, Mr. Spock would find gaping defects in your logic. :)

greenology
10-12-2012, 12:23 AM
[QUOTE=Realslowww;4552113]One thing you can do is put smaller pullies on the blade spindles to speed them up, a 72 all things given are equal will have a faster tip speed over a 60.]



It would be a bad idea to create more blade tip speed by making the pulleys smaller, as you will get less torque to the blade & I have already loaded the blades up with thick grass to the point the engine bogged. This is with mulching kit and going very slow, obviously i needed to come up higher on deck which I did at that point. However In my experience I wouldnt be taking away any power from the blades, need that power there for all different conditions/situations in contract mowing.

Ridin' Green
10-12-2012, 12:37 AM
Your a simple simon :laugh:,we need to get you enrolled in the physics class as well, the spindle pulleys on the deck make the same degree of rotation in the same time weather it is a 60 or a 72 all things being equal but the longer blade of the 72 covers more distance in that time making it have a faster tip speed. your analogy is flawed, Mr. Spock would find gaping defects in your logic. :)

.....and we have been over this too. Maybe if everything were exactly the same, same engine and rpm's exactly, same pulley sizes exactly, same deck drive belt exactly etc, the longer blade of the 72" would have the higher BTS. That isn't how it works though in the real world. The longer blade requires more HP to turn due to a couple different reason like blade weight, and generally slightly larger sails. The manu's don't ship them with the same exact deck pulleys and /or PTO pulley. They have to reduce the "gearing" so to speak of the longer blade to keep from loading down the engine below it's correct operating range. Like I have posted to you before, the 72"s usually have lower BTS's. A quick perusal through the manu's site's shows that.

Ridin' Green
10-12-2012, 12:56 AM
This was lifted right from Hustler's site for the SZ

18,630 fpm (60)

18,630 fpm (60RD)

18,230 fpm (66)

18,530 fpm (72)

18,040 fpm (72RD)

Mickhippy
10-12-2012, 03:19 AM
Green. If you have another go, make sure there is 9 or 10 psi in the tires.
Run over that same yard/ruts that's in the vid, and take some vid. Be great to see a comparison.

You lot with ya blade tip/mow this fast or that........ Carry on! Ha
I'm havin a beer and going to a party. Catch ya's tomorrow!
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 07:57 AM
.....and we have been over this too. Maybe if everything were exactly the same, same engine and rpm's exactly, same pulley sizes exactly, same deck drive belt exactly etc, the longer blade of the 72" would have the higher BTS. That isn't how it works though in the real world. The longer blade requires more HP to turn due to a couple different reason like blade weight, and generally slightly larger sails. The manu's don't ship them with the same exact deck pulleys and /or PTO pulley. They have to reduce the "gearing" so to speak of the longer blade to keep from loading down the engine below it's correct operating range. Like I have posted to you before, the 72"s usually have lower BTS's. A quick perusal through the manu's site's shows that. BULL CHIT my 72 n 60 run the same engine RPM and the same size deck pulley's and motor therefore they are the same. A 60 20 inch blade will have more torque and a 72 will have more tip speed that is the real difference. All the other stuff is hog wash, like I said all things being equal. I will tell you this a 72 Super in my opinion is superior to a 60 all things being equal.

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 08:04 AM
This was lifted right from Hustler's site for the SZ

18,630 fpm (60)

18,630 fpm (60RD)

18,230 fpm (66)

18,530 fpm (72)

18,040 fpm (72RD) Dude I do not care what there site says, I am telling you my 60 and 72 are the same size pullies with basically the same engine so the tip speed is higher on the 72 and it is all stock, now I will go out and measure it again then apologize to you if you are correct. ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL , GODDD!

GMLC
10-12-2012, 09:40 AM
I love how these guys know more than the company that actually made and engineered the machine...so now not only do the Hustler reps know nothing the website and owners manual are also useless!!

Hustler you need to hire these guys asap!!! They took physics classes and mow at 15 mph on a smooth surface while taking less than an inch off!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
10-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Dude I do not care what there site says, I am telling you my 60 and 72 are the same size pullies with basically the same engine so the tip speed is higher on the 72 and it is all stock, now I will go out and measure it again then apologize to you if you are correct. ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL , GODDD!

It's obvious you don't care what the facts are from reading your posts that repeatedly fly in the face of what the manu's say. If you're gonna measure the pulleys, you need to make sure you measure ALL of them. Any change anywhere will alter the outcome of the BTS. Make sure you measure them acccurately too. A tape measure held up against a pulley on an angle is not very accurate.

I already agreed with you in my previous post that all things being exactly equal, the BTS of the 72 would be higher, but it's apparent from their published specs that Hustler did something to change the final BTS of the 72 to be a small bit below that of the 60.

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 01:49 PM
It's obvious you don't care what the facts are from reading your posts that repeatedly fly in the face of what the manu's say. If you're gonna measure the pulleys, you need to make sure you measure ALL of them. Any change anywhere will alter the outcome of the BTS. Make sure you measure them acccurately too. A tape measure held up against a pulley on an angle is not very accurate.

I already agreed with you in my previous post that all things being exactly equal, the BTS of the 72 would be higher, but it's apparent from their published specs that Hustler did something to change the final BTS of the 72 to be a small bit below that of the 60.

I own a 60 and a 72 Super Z of the same variety, math and physics on this do not lie on this. If both have 30 Hp Kohlers which turn the same RPM and the pulleys are the same the tip speed is higher on the 72 regardless of what Hustler's site say's. People need to sometimes trust their own eyes and common judgement over what others tell them.

That is why America is in this predicament!

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 01:51 PM
I love how these guys know more than the company that actually made and engineered the machine...so now not only do the Hustler reps know nothing the website and owners manual are also useless!!

Hustler you need to hire these guys asap!!! They took physics classes and mow at 15 mph on a smooth surface while taking less than an inch off!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

You don't know what you are talking about,enjoy your inferior Z.:)

Ridin' Green
10-12-2012, 02:08 PM
I own a 60 and a 72 Super Z of the same variety, math and physics on this do not lie on this. If both have 30 Hp Kohlers which turn the same RPM and the pulleys are the same the tip speed is higher on the 72 regardless of what Hustler's site say's. People need to sometimes trust their own eyes and common judgement over what others tell them.

That is why America is in this predicament!

Well, maybe you ought to call Hustler and tell them that they are wrong and that you'd be happy to straighten them out on their specs.

You have older SZ's. Maybe they did at one time have higher BTS's on the 72 inch version, but I doubt it. You are constantly promoting 72's over 60's etc, and that's fine by me, but just because you think that they're the best doesn't mean they are, or that they have the highest BTS. Each size has its own place. No one size is best.

You still havene't proven anything other than saying that you think they have the same sized pulleys, spindles etc. Only a 1/16" difference in pulley size at any one point on the deck or PTO could easily provide the difference in BTS posted by Hustler.

The thing is, you claim(ed) that the 72's have faster BTS, but none of the manu's that post the specs agree with you. Either they are the same for both deck sizes, or their 72's are slightly lower. Now I suppose you are going to tell us that they are all wrong, and you are right.:rolleyes:

Mark Oomkes
10-12-2012, 02:21 PM
I own a 60 and a 72 Super Z of the same variety, math and physics on this do not lie on this. If both have 30 Hp Kohlers which turn the same RPM and the pulleys are the same the tip speed is higher on the 72 regardless of what Hustler's site say's. People need to sometimes trust their own eyes and common judgement over what others tell them.

That is why America is in this predicament!

Dang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can measure tip speed with your eyes?

GMLC
10-12-2012, 02:26 PM
You don't know what you are talking about,enjoy your inferior Z.:)

All of my work and equipment has been pictured all over LS. Its time to put your money where your mouth is. Please post some pics of your work and equipment for all to see. Then we can decide whats inferior...
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 07:59 PM
Well, maybe you ought to call Hustler and tell them that they are wrong and that you'd be happy to straighten them out on their specs.

You have older SZ's. Maybe they did at one time have higher BTS's on the 72 inch version, but I doubt it. You are constantly promoting 72's over 60's etc, and that's fine by me, but just because you think that they're the best doesn't mean they are, or that they have the highest BTS. Each size has its own place. No one size is best.

You still havene't proven anything other than saying that you think they have the same sized pulleys, spindles etc. Only a 1/16" difference in pulley size at any one point on the deck or PTO could easily provide the difference in BTS posted by Hustler.

The thing is, you claim(ed) that the 72's have faster BTS, but none of the manu's that post the specs agree with you. Either they are the same for both deck sizes, or their 72's are slightly lower. Now I suppose you are going to tell us that they are all wrong, and you are right.:rolleyes: I am a idiot sorry,the 60 uses smaller pulleys. They are around a half inch smaller.

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Actually that gives me an idea, you can speed the blades up with slightly smaller pulleys and it will cut better at full stick :) but it could be dangerous as far as breaking a blade because of how many feet per second a 24 inch blade can travel. It could easily be figured out.

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 08:14 PM
All of my work and equipment has been pictured all over LS. Its time to put your money where your mouth is. Please post some pics of your work and equipment for all to see. Then we can decide whats inferior...
Posted via Mobile Device I am not into it that much sorry.

Realslowww
10-12-2012, 08:16 PM
Well, maybe you ought to call Hustler and tell them that they are wrong and that you'd be happy to straighten them out on their specs.

You have older SZ's. Maybe they did at one time have higher BTS's on the 72 inch version, but I doubt it. You are constantly promoting 72's over 60's etc, and that's fine by me, but just because you think that they're the best doesn't mean they are, or that they have the highest BTS. Each size has its own place. No one size is best.

You still havene't proven anything other than saying that you think they have the same sized pulleys, spindles etc. Only a 1/16" difference in pulley size at any one point on the deck or PTO could easily provide the difference in BTS posted by Hustler.

The thing is, you claim(ed) that the 72's have faster BTS, but none of the manu's that post the specs agree with you. Either they are the same for both deck sizes, or their 72's are slightly lower. Now I suppose you are going to tell us that they are all wrong, and you are right.:rolleyes: The speed of the blade is determined by pulley size on the blade spindle and pulley size on the clutch.

Any other component on the deck is irrelevant.

Ridin' Green
10-12-2012, 10:15 PM
The speed of the blade is determined by pulley size on the blade spindle and pulley size on the clutch.

Any other component on the deck is irrelevant.

That's true. I was assuming that you knew that already, but should have been very specific I suppose.

BTW- it takes guts to come on and admit you're wrong. I respect that.:)

Realslowww
10-13-2012, 07:47 PM
What style belt does the newer Super z use for the pump drive?

Realslowww
10-13-2012, 07:48 PM
That's true. I was assuming that you knew that already, but should have been very specific I suppose.

BTW- it takes guts to come on and admit you're wrong. I respect that.:)

I am always wrong so just get used to it. :)

Ridin' Green
10-13-2012, 08:30 PM
I am always wrong so just get used to it. :)

Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so there's hope.:laugh:

greenology
10-15-2012, 04:17 AM
Met up with the NSW Hustler REP today, he admitted the machine was rough over the undulating ground I mow. He said the super z machine is designed for smooth lawns & that the X-One would have been better suited to my type of work.

I wont even bother to go into all my arguements with the issues, its completely rediculous. All I know is how badly the machine performs over un even terrain, therefor it isnt suited to my line of work & due to the fact they never advertised the machine as not suited for rough ground, I believe I was misled, so I am taking it to consumer affairs in the hope to be refunded.

The advertising states that the machine should ride like a thoroughbred, thats incorrect, unless its a golf green (what the hell mower wont ride smooth over smooth ground?). Also they advertise the flex forks to give a more even cut over uneven ground, thats false, it creates lifting in front end which makes the deck bounce ( the rep said I should expect that to be normal ) also the flex forks are designed to give a smoother ride for operator & in turn increase productivity due to mowing faster over rough terrain, well thats also false as I find I need to slow down to snail speed to avoid deck bouncing and neck jerking over any of the slightest bumps!

However if you have a smooth lawn, this mower is excellent for that. I envy you. I have 1 or 2 lawns which are smooth enough to cut the entire lawn without any need to complain about a rough ride.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 08:16 AM
Did you take any vid with the static forks etc?

TLS
10-15-2012, 09:15 AM
So, tire pressure was adjusted to 8-10psi, another set of flex forks were installed, and also standard forks were installed with air filled ribbed Carlisle tires set at 9psi?

ALL of this is necessary to rule out any hidden issues.

I just don't understand how Mickhippy doesn't have these issues on the SAME EXACT MOWER.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 09:58 AM
I just don't understand how Mickhippy doesn't have these issues on the SAME EXACT MOWER.

Im in the process of uploading a new vid, taken this afternoon. I'll get the link up in the (my) morning.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 10:26 AM
So, tire pressure was adjusted to 8-10psi, another set of flex forks were installed, and also standard forks were installed with air filled ribbed Carlisle tires set at 9psi?

ALL of this is necessary to rule out any hidden issues.

Good question, and true!

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 03:26 PM
So, tire pressure was adjusted to 8-10psi, another set of flex forks were installed, and also standard forks were installed with air filled ribbed Carlisle tires set at 9psi?

ALL of this is necessary to rule out any hidden issues.

I just don't understand how Mickhippy doesn't have these issues on the SAME EXACT MOWER. I had a guy here who bought one and said the same thing,claimed deck chattered and bounced and could not mow at speed. They traded the XR7 in on it and said it did not do this.

I tried one for 5 minutes and immediately noticed how stiff the new mower was even with flex forks but they were doing a good job so the ride was good.

greenology
10-15-2012, 04:31 PM
Yea I already posted a few days ago re: the forks. It improved a little. I dont have access to air filled tyres, quite frankly the problem is that dramatic that air tyres wont fix the issue out of sight, but if I can then I will try.

I will be putting the rigid forks back on, lowering the rear tyres to 8 PSI to see how it goes for a while. If this is ok, then I will ask the dealer if they can source some air tyres. Have been waiting for the appt with hustler rep before making any other changes, the mechanic also didnt want me to change anything until he tried the weight kit.

When you pay so much money for something, you dont expect to be changing ANYTHING around to make it suit what it was meant to be built for! But this is life I suppose, see how I go next 2 days with rigid forks and low rear tyres.

greenology
10-15-2012, 04:40 PM
So, tire pressure was adjusted to 8-10psi, another set of flex forks were installed, and also standard forks were installed with air filled ribbed Carlisle tires set at 9psi?

ALL of this is necessary to rule out any hidden issues.

I just don't understand how Mickhippy doesn't have these issues on the SAME EXACT MOWER.

The REP jumped on the mower for 5 mins & told me the mower is faultless, in other words there is no difference between this hustler and the next one. So he ruled out any hidden issues.

However he surprised me, I thought he would dispute that the machine was rough, I told him about the other brands I have used, he said that this super z will always ride like this due to the hydraulics and other characteristics of the rigid machine. In his opinion it is not designed for rough lawns, so therefore he admits its rough on that lawn but that I should be happy with that and should expect it. Even though he admits the super z is the only machine that will give this type of rough ride due to its design. To me its ******* stupid, they need to change their advertising immediately to say the mower will not be suited for rough un even terrain!

Unless they spend all their ******* time and use their engineers to modify a model that better suits rough lawns, using the things you all suggest here, air tyres etc. Then they can market the 2 seperate models.

TLS
10-15-2012, 04:50 PM
Green,

I don't know what to tell you....

I have a 2006 SuperZ 60" XR-7 deck 28hp EFI Kohler, with rigid forks and air tires. Suspension seat with the flex seat under it. Close to 2K hrs on it. Second best riding mower I've ever used (next to my '97 DC Flatlander with ATV tires (4psi IIRC).

Did 2 separate MULTI-day demo's of the new SuperZ (Like yours 60" VX4 and 31hp Kawi) almost a year apart. First was with rigid forks and second was with flex forks.

The ride was fine. I did have a little more back-slap, but I attributed that to me being used to my easy chair like flex seat. When the Flex forks were added, it REALLY made it ride nice.

Maybe it was the increased power, the far superior cut quality, or the super refined feel of this new hydro system that was dulling my senses with regard to the ride? In any event, it rode just fine for me.

Don't know what else to tell you.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 06:33 PM
Mowing rough ground at speed, mostly full speed... http://youtu.be/arxl5wyjqpc

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 06:52 PM
Mowing rough ground at speed, mostly full speed... http://youtu.be/arxl5wyjqpc

I take it you has somewhere to get to. LMAO bro!:drinkup:

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 06:58 PM
LMAO bro!:drinkup:

Impressed arent ya!:dancing:

TLS
10-15-2012, 06:59 PM
Need a "LIKE" button!

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 07:04 PM
Impressed arent ya!:dancing:

Nah, that's the way I mow every lawn.

Sure am goin through the customers this year. Think that might have something to do with it?

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 07:18 PM
Nah, that's the way I mow every lawn.

Sure am goin through the customers this year. Think that might have something to do with it?

Dont know how we survive!

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 08:26 PM
Green,

I don't know what to tell you....

I have a 2006 SuperZ 60" XR-7 deck 28hp EFI Kohler, with rigid forks and air tires. Suspension seat with the flex seat under it. Close to 2K hrs on it. Second best riding mower I've ever used (next to my '97 DC Flatlander with ATV tires (4psi IIRC).

Did 2 separate MULTI-day demo's of the new SuperZ (Like yours 60" VX4 and 31hp Kawi) almost a year apart. First was with rigid forks and second was with flex forks.

The ride was fine. I did have a little more back-slap, but I attributed that to me being used to my easy chair like flex seat. When the Flex forks were added, it REALLY made it ride nice.

Maybe it was the increased power, the far superior cut quality, or the super refined feel of this new hydro system that was dulling my senses with regard to the ride? In any event, it rode just fine for me.

Don't know what else to tell you.

This new 72" I just bought with the flex forks rides great...the problem he's having is coming from mowing rough properties during a drought period which in-return makes the ground more hard and much less forgiving. I've been on many shorter ZTR's running at much slower speeds that would beat your brains out, so for someone to say a Hustler Super Z is the roughest riding mower they've ever owned is a problem they must deal with, and not anything I've ever heard from anyone else.

I think you can look back at my post where I said there will be nothing wrong with the mower, and I guess the rep that came out verified my statement.

There is honestly a very simple fix for this problem, when too rough, slow down. I would take bets there is absolutely nothing wrong with the mower.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 08:32 PM
This new 72" I just bought with the flex forks rides great...the problem he's having is coming from mowing rough properties during a drought period which in-return makes the ground more hard and much less forgiving. I've been on many shorter ZTR's running at much slower speeds that would beat your brains out, so for someone to say a Hustler Super Z is the roughest riding mower they've ever owned is a problem they must deal with, and not anything I've ever heard from anyone else.

I think you can look back at my post where I said there will be nothing wrong with the mower, and I guess the rep that came out verified my statement.He claims his other machines are not like this?

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 08:34 PM
Mowing rough ground at speed, mostly full speed... http://youtu.be/arxl5wyjqpc

This looks like a man on a mission...a mission to get out of that dusty mess as fast as possible...I can't believe you can cut grass running that fast, how could the blades keep up???

TLS
10-15-2012, 08:38 PM
He claims his other machines are not like this?

Then it HAS to be the OTR tires.

EVERY ZTR out there withOUT a suspension. You are basically sitting above the rear drive tires. 24x12-12 Carlisles' for 95% of them.

A GOOD bit of your "suspension" on a ZTR comes from the rear tires "giving" due to low pressure inside them.

The rest comes from the FRONT tires in the same sense.

With Flex-Forks, the front is smoothed out tremendously, but you are still left with the rear being left to the give of the rear tires.

With some ZTR's, the front caster arms ever so slightly will flex and add to somewhat of a spring action, or twisting when one front caster climbs a hill that the other does not. This is why some ZTR's have a pivoting front caster assembly.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 08:53 PM
This looks like a man on a mission...a mission to get out of that dusty mess as fast as possible...I can't believe you can cut grass running that fast, how could the blades keep up???

And no whip lash, vomiting or broken back. I think I dinted a blade though!

That grass is just rubbish stuff across the road from my place, cut quality was very low on my "give a toss" list!

The point of it was to show how to sit on the machine and let it move underneath me, like a bike going over whoops.

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 10:04 PM
And no whip lash, vomiting or broken back. I think I dinted a blade though!

That grass is just rubbish stuff across the road from my place, cut quality was very low on my "give a toss" list!

The point of it was to show how to sit on the machine and let it move underneath me, like a bike going over whoops.

I was watching the video and having a hard time understanding how you could cut grass that fast, you would not think the blades could keep up???

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 10:15 PM
This looks like a man on a mission...a mission to get out of that dusty mess as fast as possible...I can't believe you can cut grass running that fast, how could the blades keep up???

I was watching the video and having a hard time understanding how you could cut grass that fast, you would not think the blades could keep up???

Very childish puppy. :nono: Kinda shameful for a man of you age and intellect to act like a spoiled kid who didn't get his way.:rolleyes:

I was gonna leave it alone and let it die, but if you want to keep it up, we can. We didn't get any close up QOC pics did we? I don't believe that Mick said it was top notch either did he? (in fact, after I first posted this I see he in fact says the QOC wasn't that great) In fact, I believe he posted on his video that he doesn't condone that type of operation of the machine, or mowing like that. I know he mows at full sticks sometimes, but he is cutting completely different grass than we have up here as well as you. The grass looks rather thin in the video compared to some of the stuff he cuts as well, and it didn't look like he was taking off al that much length. It certainly doesn'tdo the machine any good to go that fast where it's that rough. I know he was just showing that it can be done, and that he was trying to demonstrate what the ride looks like to the OP. I don'twish to drag Mick into this either, since it has nothing to do with anyone other than you and me, and the fact that you were contradicted directly by the maker of the machine on what the proper speed for mowing should be.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 10:19 PM
The Pupster :)

GMLC
10-15-2012, 10:24 PM
Very childish puppy. :nono: Kinda shameful for a man of you age and intellect to act like a spoiled kid who didn't get his way.:rolleyes:

I was gonna leave it alone and let it die, but if you want to keep it up, we can. We didn't get any close up QOC pics did we? I don't believe that Mick said it was top notch either did he? (in fact, after I first posted this I see he in fact says the QOC wasn't that great) In fact, I believe he posted on his video that he doesn't condone that type of operation of the machine, or mowing like that. I know he mows at full sticks sometimes, but he is cutting completely different grass than we have up here as well as you. The grass looks rather thin in the video compared to some of the stuff he cuts as well, and it didn't look like he was taking off al that much length. It certainly doesn'tdo the machine any good to go that fast where it's that rough. I know he was just showing that it can be done, and that he was trying to demonstrate what the ride looks like to the OP. I don'twish to drag Mick into this either, since it has nothing to do with anyone other than you and me, and the fact that you were contradicted directly by the maker of the machine on what the proper speed for mowing should be.

Dont let them get to you brotha. Its not worth the trouble.
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puppypaws
10-15-2012, 10:24 PM
Very childish puppy. :nono: Kinda shameful for a man of you age and intellect to act like a spoiled kid who didn't get his way.:rolleyes:

I was gonna leave it alone and let it die, but if you want to keep it up, we can. We didn't get any close up QOC pics did we? I don't believe that Mick said it was top notch either did he? In fact, I believe he posted on his video that he doesn't condone that type of operation of the machine, or mowing like that. I know he mows at full sticks sometimes, but he is cutting completely different grass than we have up here as well as you. The grass looks rather thin in the video compared to some of the stuff he cuts as well, and it didn't look like he was taking off al that much length. It certainly doesn'tdo the machine any good to go that fast where it's that rough. I know he was just showing that it can be done, and that he was trying to demonstrate what the ride looks like to the OP. I don'twish to drag Mick into this either, since it has nothing to do with anyone other than you and me, and the fact that you were contradicted directly by the maker of the machine on what the proper speed for mwoing should be.

I've shown you excellent cut quality pictures of where a Super Z cut crabgrass and fescue at top speed, and you've never made one comment on why there is no grass left standing.

Your the one that said it was theoretically impossible to cut grass at the high speeds because the blades could not turn fast enough to keep up. You can actually see a video of it being done, and yes, Mick was letting you see a Hustler Super Z can cut grass at very high speeds without needing to double cut. You can see a close up ground level picture of grass cut at full Super Z speed, you can see a video of a Super Z cutting grass at full speed, yet you continue to disregard the facts presented. Why is this, you just that hard headed?

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 10:41 PM
I've shown you excellent cut quality pictures of where a Super Z cut crabgrass and fescue at top speed, and you've never made one comment on why there is no grass left standing.

Your the one that said it was theoretically impossible to cut grass at the high speeds because the blades could not turn fast enough to keep up. You can actually see a video of it being done, and yes, Mick was letting you see a Hustler Super Z can cut grass at very high speeds without needing to double cut. You can see a close up ground level picture of grass cut at full Super Z speed, you can see a video of a Super Z cutting grass at full speed, yet you continue to disregard the facts presented. Why is this, you just that hard headed?

I'm calling BS on that. I have never said it is impossible. I have said it is not a good idea to do it unless conditions are perfect, which they rarely are. Nowhere in the video is there a close up of the QOC either, so that is a bunch of crap too. I said that yes, in your picture it looked pretty good, though in a pic one can never fully see the true QOC. You seem fixated on arguing about something that even the manufacturer sides with me on, while trying to dodge the actual wording of the converstaions that have taken place between us here on LS.

None of that negates the fact that you are continuing to act childish when I tried to let it rest. However, I'll be darned if I'll llet you make sport of me when it isn't warranted or accurate.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 10:59 PM
Ok, I do not want to get into this debate but....
What I will say is the vid had nothing to do with the cut. It was all about traveling over rough ground, how to use the body and see if there was much deck bounce. As if I'd make turns like that on a customers lawn. I dont think so, let alone what doing that would to to the machine over time.

I should of just left the blade off but I thought while Im at it, I may as well cut it.

I was cutting too high for there to be any true nice cut, there were tall weeds and spindly grass etc, where the grass was thicker it did cut better.
Id only mowed those areas like 3 times in the last 12yrs so didnt know where the ruts are, I only knew it was rough from bush hogging and cars and there are rocks on it as well. I really didnt want to cut low enough for the finish when there was huge risk of hitting something. In fact, I actually did hit a rock in the edit on the first time around the first area.

No way would I normally mow a property as rough as this as fast as that. But smooth properties, I can and do.

I know I can mow thick dry grass (like bermuda), not taking much off on smooth properties at full stick. So I agree with Puppy but, I also understand that limp or soft Northern grass's would be much more difficult as it would require time for vacuum, let grass stand up long enough to be cut cleanly.

Basically, your both right!

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 11:20 PM
I'm calling BS on that. I have never said it is impossible. I have said it is not a good idea to do it unless conditions are perfect, which they rarely are. Nowhere in the video is there a close up of the QOC either, so that is a bunch of crap too. I said that yes, in your picture it looked pretty good, though in a pic one can never fully see the true QOC. You seem fixated on arguing about something that even the manufacturer sides with me on, while trying to dodge the actual wording of the converstaions that have taken place between us here on LS.

None of that negates the fact that you are continuing to act childish when I tried to let it rest. However, I'll be darned if I'll llet you make sport of me when it isn't warranted or accurate.

I think you said this:

Puppy- just do the math sir. It isn't that hard to do, and it tells you that the strikes per inch of forwards travel are far too low for clean cutting at full speed under anything less than ideal conditions, especially on limp type grass.

I have shown you that this is not true, if what you stated here was fact, you would see uncut grass standing in this picture, yet you do not.

I've never once said you can cut in all conditions at these fast speeds, but I have stated you can cut the southern stiffer blade grasses at the fast speeds. I actually cut some new volunteer rye-grass Saturday, and yes it is very limp and wispy, the kind of grass people use to over-seed here in the south to keep green lawns through the winter. If I had attempted to cut this grass at the faster speed; it would have looked as if half of it was missed, it blows around underneath the deck, meaning some is actually pushed down and away from the cutting edge of the blades. This is the type texture grass you deal with, and no, you could not use fast mowing speeds. The best cut in these type grasses will come from an Exmark with a Ultra Cut deck at around 8 mph or less. This is a totally different cutting scenario, I know what you deal with, but you have no idea of how the dryer stiff blade grasses we deal with in the south cut.

The real green grass growing beside the soybeans is volunteer rye-grass, and you can tell by looking at it the blades are very limp and wispy, making it move around underneath a deck a great deal, sometimes to the point of getting away from the blades. You can hardly cut this slow enough.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=255703&stc=1&d=1345912518

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 11:26 PM
I knew exactly why you posted it Mick. You told the OP you were going to do so yesterday. I was paying attention.;)

GMLC
10-15-2012, 11:26 PM
Just so we are clear on what cut quality at ground level should look like see post #184 in this thread...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=377987&highlight=factor&page=19

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 11:34 PM
I knew exactly why you posted it Mick. You told the OP you were going to do so yesterday. I was paying attention.;)

Sweet! Why cant we all just get along? :laugh:

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 11:36 PM
I think you said this:



I have shown you that this is not true, if what you stated here was fact, you would see uncut grass standing in this picture, yet you do not.

I've never once said you can cut in all conditions at these fast speeds, but I have stated you can cut the southern stiffer blade grasses at the fast speeds. I actually cut some new volunteer rye-grass Saturday, and yes it is very limp and wispy, the kind of grass people use to over-seed here in the south to keep green lawns through the winter. If I had attempted to cut this grass at the faster speed; it would have looked as if half of it was missed, it blows around underneath the deck, meaning some is actually pushed down and away from the cutting edge of the blades. This is the type texture grass you deal with, and no, you could not use fast mowing speeds. The best cut in these type grasses will come from an Exmark with a Ultra Cut deck at around 8 mph or less. This is a totally different cutting scenario, I know what you deal with, but you have no idea of how the dryer stiff blade grasses we deal with in the south cut.

The real green grass growing beside the soybeans is volunteer rye-grass, and you can tell by looking at it the blades are very limp and wispy, making it move around underneath a deck a great deal, sometimes to the point of getting away from the blades. You can hardly cut this slow enough.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=255703&stc=1&d=1345912518

Nope. This is lifted directly from post #11 in your thread Super Z productivity-


I guess it is just one of those things you have to see to believe because the numbers say there should be stragglers like carzy at that speed, but you are right that type of grass at least makes some what of a difference.

When the 72" deck passed over this grass it was cutting at full speed, do you see any stragglers or uncut grass, and you are getting a very close look?

Your picture above was located here

I am not the one who keeps cheap shotting the other guy here. You are. I have not done that one time to you, but you certainly have, and anyone who has been reading this can see that. I wanted to let this drop since it is pointless it seems, and I don't know why you want to keep agitating when it appears that we are saying something similar, and I have already said that on this site somewhere too. Limp northern grass- no way. Stiff southern grass, under ideal conditions.

BTW, I do know a little about southern grasses. I used to live in Orlando for several years.

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 11:38 PM
Sweet! Why cant we all just get along? :laugh:

I can if you give me 3.5 million (like they did with Rodney King in LA several years ago after he received the arse beating he deserved for punching a cop in the face):laugh:

puppypaws
10-16-2012, 12:10 AM
Nope. This is lifted directly from post #11 in your thread Super Z productivity-



When the 72" deck passed over this grass it was cutting at full speed, do you see any stragglers or uncut grass, and you are getting a very close look?

Your picture above was located here

I am not the one who keeps cheap shotting the other guy here. You are. I have not done that one time to you, but you certainly have, and anyone who has been reading this can see that. I wanted to let this drop since it is pointless it seems, and I don't know why you want to keep agitating when it appears that we are saying something similar, and I have already said that on this site somewhere too. Limp northern grass- no way. Stiff southern grass, under ideal conditions.

BTW, I do know a little about southern grasses. I used to live in Orlando for several years.


Ok, I'm going to take a shower, I'll throw you something a little different tomorrow in an attempt to get another bite.

Ridin' Green
10-16-2012, 12:13 AM
Ok, I'm going to take a shower, I'll throw you something a little different tomorrow in an attempt to get another bite.

Throw away, I've got my glove all oiled and ready to go. :laugh:

greenology
10-16-2012, 03:13 AM
Dont see the point in discussing the issue itself anymore, seems im the only one who has the issue & as much as I wish I didnt have an issue, I do.

I havnt got time for taking videos and any more in depth discussions. Im really busy this time of yr, I just dont have time.

I have put the rigid forks on this afternoon, lowered the rear tyres to 8 psi. Will be cutting with it the next 3 days, if I find no serious neck jerking etc than I may well be happy ( so far 3 lawns cut with rigid forks, no real complaints with jerking ). Then I will buy some smaller springs for the deck in the hope of preventing the deck lifting problem.

That deck lifting your getting in your video Mick, i get that often on most of my lawns at LOW speeds, 5-6 kph!! Not acceptable for the quality of cut my clients are after.

If I get any more jerking of the neck with these rigid forks, then fair trading will be my next step.

Mick, there is no point trying to demonstrate a way of riding the mower (like going over whoops with a motorbike) Ive spent yrs on motorcross bikes, trail bikes, bmx bikes, so if there was ANY WAY whatsoever of avoiding this jerking I would be avoiding it. Even the NSW Rep was getting this same jerking ( I could see it ), he blamed my lawn (5 mins jerking is fine, try 5 hrs each day!). Well im sorry but my ******* lawns have undulations in them, so if the super z is no good for undulations, then they should bloody advertise that so ppl are not misled & can make an informed decision.

Its got nothing to do with a drought, Ive been through worse than this little dry spell we're having. Besides as i have mentioned, while the super z was in for servicing, I took my previous zero turn out to cut these lawns, it was like sitting on a massage chair that bumps up and down, so relaxing!

TLS
10-16-2012, 09:54 AM
I have put the rigid forks on this afternoon, lowered the rear tyres to 8 psi. Will be cutting with it the next 3 days, if I find no serious neck jerking etc than I may well be happy ( so far 3 lawns cut with rigid forks, no real complaints with jerking ).


So, you haven't tried 8psi in the rears yet? :confused:

Michael J. Donovan
10-16-2012, 10:13 AM
ok, I think we can put this one to rest now...some great discussion and input on this issue, but I believe it has run its course

thanks all :waving: