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Exact Rototilling
10-04-2012, 01:26 PM
Overseed jobs ... abort due to low overnight temps or opt for Dormant seeding and spray paint mark sprinkler heads due to irrigation blow outs....?

This happens every year. Swimming at the lake one weekend then cold weather hits with a vengeance.

For cool season grasses what is lower ideal germination limit for overnight temps for ideal germination results....? Then combine that most sprinklers are being blown out now. :(

The other glitch is our September has been brutally dry and warm and even the irrigated lawns with marginal coverage have been hit hard.

Anyhow just a bit frustrated...what is YOUR criteria for overnight and daytime temps for good overseed results....? Like I said Iím at the point were Iíd prefer to just spray paint sprinkler heads and wait till February or early March and do an dormant seeding and call it good. The huge advantage is zero worries about irrigation from spring rain etc.

R & R Yard Designs
10-04-2012, 03:03 PM
Just seed it.
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RigglePLC
10-04-2012, 03:42 PM
Is this bluegrass and rye? My opinion, is after a few good frosts its time to shut down. Day temps in the 50's is barely warm enough. I find that grass does not do anything below 45 degrees. So 45 days and 29 degrees at night--not much will happen.

Remember that cold soil temperatures in spring will persist until about the first mowing. I wouldn't seed much before the first mowing. April 15 in my neighborhood.

Smallaxe
10-05-2012, 10:54 AM
Dormant Seeding occurs before winter not after... :)

bigslick7878
10-05-2012, 07:07 PM
60 during the day 40 at night is fine. It will take longer for the seed to come up but it will. Ground temps around 45 in your neck of the woods, that is borderline.

I have seeded with daytime temps in the lower 50''s night in 30's before, fescue took a month to come up.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
10-05-2012, 10:50 PM
I just seeded today, slice seed job on 10k sq ft. Highs over the next week look to be around 60 degrees. Lows look to be around 35. This is avg, some warmer daytime temps some colder nighttime temps. My mix was 50% Per Rye and 50% KBG. Full sun lawn. I don't hold out tremendous hope for the KBG, but the Rye ought to come up and establish before it really gets cold out. That said, I won't be doing much seeding after today.

Smallaxe
10-06-2012, 10:17 AM
All the seeding done in the past month is not even considered seeded yet, its so dry... It will be considered seeded when the first rains finally show up... very interesting to see what is learned from this weather pattern and its impact on unirrigated lawns...

We've seeded irrigated lawns in October before and they did fine... tonite we're looking at 13 hrs below freezing with the coolest temp hitting 19 degrees... interesting seeding season indeed... :)

bigslick7878
10-07-2012, 12:15 AM
I got lots of time left, ground temps still around 60 in my neck of the woods.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
10-07-2012, 12:41 AM
I'd say you advise customers of the risk of seeding in October and if they want it anyway and are willing to water, by all means throw seed.

Smallaxe
10-07-2012, 10:33 AM
One of the simplest things in the world is to grow grass... it can become expensive if you want to Aerate, De-thatch, remove thatch, mow low, slit-seed(2 directions), cover in straw or mulch, water, water, water 2-3 times per day, and starter fertilizer... but only if you want to... :)

With normal weather conditions you can get grass to grow, a little here and a little there,,, if you want to as well... that is simply putting seed where you want it over a period of time and eventually it will grow...

Then there is another way,,, the right way, the proffessional way!!! a cost efficient strategy that succeeds over short periods of time...
"What is it?" and what does it have to do with the tempurature right now?? :)

Kiril
10-07-2012, 11:05 AM
I know,I know. Go down to the local hardware store that sells seed, pick up a bag, then go broadcast it by hand and charge a premium price. You know, because this is the way the "professionals" do it, and it is guaranteed to yield a high success rate, consistent results, and a thick stand of turf. :rolleyes:

Smallaxe
10-07-2012, 11:59 AM
Others may have noticed that I'd already discounted the "2nd Option", and the alternative to both options was something else... the question was... What can be done, in any given situation...
As long as we stick with the rigid one size fits all,,, we will continue to be sidetracked...

Sidetracked in both word and deed, unable to provide the service that clients ask for... it does pay to think things through, before going through the greatest expense for the narrowest result... :)

Cadzilla
10-09-2012, 01:49 PM
Whats dormant seeding?

Is that where you put a bunch of seed out to sit there all winter and expect germination in spring?

Egads....lol

On a good day with fresh seed, seed to soil contact, watering, and fertilizing you will only get 80% germination.

I can only assume what germ-rate would be after sitting there all winter.

Smallaxe
10-09-2012, 06:14 PM
Whats dormant seeding?

Is that where you put a bunch of seed out to sit there all winter and expect germination in spring?

Egads....lol

On a good day with fresh seed, seed to soil contact, watering, and fertilizing you will only get 80% germination.

I can only assume what germ-rate would be after sitting there all winter.

You assume incorrectly... obviously it is a last ditch effort to fill in the areas that didn't 'take well', during the Fall, but last Spring was probably the best results of anything else... even complete lawns being seeded after rototilling...

In the old days people either relied on Spring rains or Winter seeding to establish lawns... it works much better than lots of things I've seen other people do... :)

Cadzilla
10-09-2012, 08:21 PM
You assume incorrectly... obviously it is a last ditch effort to fill in the areas that didn't 'take well', during the Fall, but last Spring was probably the best results of anything else... even complete lawns being seeded after rototilling...

In the old days people either relied on Spring rains or Winter seeding to establish lawns... it works much better than lots of things I've seen other people do... :)

Too many variables for me. Like last winter here in the midwest. The seed would have sat there and rotted for four months. I don't see how you could get much germination, and certainly not for the prices I charge for premium seeding.

For field seeding? I guess but why not just wait till spring?

RigglePLC
10-09-2012, 10:46 PM
You both make valid points. I tried some tests last year. Seeded very late as dormant seeding. But winter was so mild--seed came up in December. Seed on top of snow in February in flower pots came up in April. I will try again this year. Suggestions needed.

Smallaxe
10-10-2012, 09:23 AM
Too many variables for me. Like last winter here in the midwest. The seed would have sat there and rotted for four months. I don't see how you could get much germination, and certainly not for the prices I charge for premium seeding.

For field seeding? I guess but why not just wait till spring?

I remember being told, when first starting out, that seed put onto the ground when it's too cold for it to germinate, would rot... that was a lie...
In fact I believe last year that the seed may have been in Phase II, for most of the winter, then it germinated(Phase III) as soon a it was warm enough for mature grass to green up in the Spring... Last year was one of the most successful ever...

If you wait till Spring with dry seed you are losing valuable time with both phases I & II... I was reading yesterday and some sites refer to "Frost Seeding"...

Where in the midwest are you???

Smallaxe
10-10-2012, 09:28 AM
... I will try again this year. Suggestions needed.

Try putting seed down on frozen ground before Winter... Then in a nearby spot put down seed in Feb. or there abouts... Then put down seed during the time that people normally do Spring seeding in your area and see when and how they look Memorial Weekend...

Just a suggestion... :)

Exact Rototilling
10-12-2012, 01:04 AM
I did proceed with the quasi overseed on job #1. The lawn in question is watered too often like daily and the client is not easily educated on proper turf care...just like 70% of the home owners here in the land.of.turf.grass.research. His also s lawn has too much thatch?? Thanks.to.years of fast release TG or other big application Co. Weed.and.feed combos plus.over irrigation.

What I did is a 2 pass fairly.aggressive spring tine power rake to.mainly scrap down to.the crowns and loosen up some.debris. After that I did.a triple plugr 850 pass which would require 6+ passes with a rolling tine.unit ...let.it dry.out 2 days... cranked out client supplied seed...did a very.dirty and.gritty plug.break up low mow. Also cranked.out 16-16-16 fert....Then split.
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Smallaxe
10-12-2012, 10:14 AM
Were there a lot of compacted, smooth barespots in between the grass plants, or was it rather full?

jonthepain
10-12-2012, 01:10 PM
fescue seeded in spring down here in NC generally doesn't make it through summer.

not sure if fescue seeded in winter would, either. maybe, but i kinda doubt it.

Exact Rototilling
10-12-2012, 01:12 PM
Were there a lot of compacted, smooth barespots in between the grass plants, or was it rather full?

Rather full....that's why I skipped the verticut step. Looks hideous regardless :)
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