PDA

View Full Version : Hustler Super Z 104"


Pages : [1] 2

KV9064
10-14-2012, 06:59 PM
2013 Hustler Super Z

A1 Outdoor Services
10-14-2012, 07:04 PM
Holy moly!

Patriot Services
10-14-2012, 07:04 PM
I guess they bought out Flex Deck and his patents. At least I hope he had patented his designs.
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-14-2012, 07:07 PM
Just when I gave up on them, I'm in love :) I bet it is 18 or 20 grand and is there a motor big enough yet?

jimjoy12
10-14-2012, 07:09 PM
That's a big boy. its got a step to get in it

Patriot Services
10-14-2012, 07:10 PM
Two hundred dollar deck belt.
Posted via Mobile Device

Landscape Poet
10-14-2012, 07:12 PM
Which cost more...the mower or the trailer that fits that beast?

Realslowww
10-14-2012, 07:15 PM
Puppy bought his mower a few months to early :laugh: there you go Pupster, go out and get her and you will be our God!

A standard 7 FT wide trailer will handle it with no problem.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
10-14-2012, 07:19 PM
Looks nice
I see the wings folds up very kool then it will fit on a trailer

Landscape Poet
10-14-2012, 07:27 PM
Looks nice
I see the wings folds up very kool then it will fit on a trailer

Oh...did not catch that...that was why I was like how much does the trailer cost to fit it. Pretty nifty for it to fold up like that.

Patriot Services
10-14-2012, 07:31 PM
You guys must not remember flexdeck. He sold a design that added an extra blade and deck housing to almost any brand made. Folded up the same way. He managed to post on nearly every thread how this was the answer to all your worldly problems. He was even a sponsor for a while.
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-14-2012, 07:35 PM
It appears to be a reardischarge so manicuring is out.

Landscape Poet
10-14-2012, 07:36 PM
You guys must not remember flexdeck. He sold a design that added an extra blade and deck housing to almost any brand made. Folded up the same way. He managed to post on nearly every thread how this was the answer to all your worldly problems. He was even a sponsor for a while.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nope I do not remember him.....but coming from Hustler I would be pretty excited about this if we did any roadside mowing or other areas where appearance was not a concern but rather just productivity. This thing has to be able to handle some serious acreage per hour with Hustlers speed and this size.

Realslowww
10-14-2012, 07:41 PM
Nope I do not remember him.....but coming from Hustler I would be pretty excited about this if we did any roadside mowing or other areas where appearance was not a concern but rather just productivity. This thing has to be able to handle some serious acreage per hour with Hustlers speed and this size. If the motor is up to it and it can knock it down in one pass at 10 or 15 MPH then we have a winner. I have always wondered if rear discharge can be mowed as fast because the deck does not generate the same standup suction as a side chute so it would seem thay may have problems with high speed mowing?

gene gls
10-14-2012, 07:45 PM
You guys must not remember flexdeck. He sold a design that added an extra blade and deck housing to almost any brand made. Folded up the same way. He managed to post on nearly every thread how this was the answer to all your worldly problems. He was even a sponsor for a while.
Posted via Mobile Device

Didn't he sell the rights to Dixi Chopper..........They were advertizing his combination at one time.

Landscape Poet
10-14-2012, 07:45 PM
If the motor is up to it and it can knock it down in one pass at 10 or 15 MPH then we have a winner. I have always wondered if rear discharge can be mowed as fast because the deck does not generate the same standup suction as a side chute so it would seem thay may have problems with high speed mowing?

A couple of city and counties use them for road side mowing here. The main reason for the rear discharge of course is to limit the potential hazards of mowing roadsides with side discharge. Again if cut quality and manicured is not your main objection is but rather than productivity I would think this would be great choice as you would be able to cover large areas in a short period of time. Has anyone checked the site? Anyone have production numbers on these yet?

Greg78
10-14-2012, 07:52 PM
You guys must not remember flexdeck. He sold a design that added an extra blade and deck housing to almost any brand made. Folded up the same way. He managed to post on nearly every thread how this was the answer to all your worldly problems. He was even a sponsor for a while.
Posted via Mobile Device

I remember him. I also remember that Dixie Chopper had a flip up side deck and I think Cub Cadet had a 60" Z that the decks flipped up on each side to fit through gates.

Greg78
10-14-2012, 07:55 PM
A couple of city and counties use them for road side mowing here. The main reason for the rear discharge of course is to limit the potential hazards of mowing roadsides with side discharge. Again if cut quality and manicured is not your main objection is but rather than productivity I would think this would be great choice as you would be able to cover large areas in a short period of time. Has anyone checked the site? Anyone have production numbers on these yet?

Also with a rear discharge deck you aren't mowing over clippings from previous passes so that is another time saver if like you said productivity is the most important over manicuring.

Buck Hollow Lawn Care
10-14-2012, 08:07 PM
Dang! That things bigger than dads!
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-14-2012, 08:46 PM
It looks like it could be based of a 72 with 3 24 inch blades in the center, then a 16incher each side.

puppypaws
10-14-2012, 09:06 PM
Puppy bought his mower a few months to early :laugh: there you go Pupster, go out and get her and you will be our God!

A standard 7 FT wide trailer will handle it with no problem.

The mower has a purpose for some applications but not mine, this mower will not allow the speed or maneuverability I can get with the 72", and if they have not picked up another engine of at least 40+ hp it will be underpowered. That 8 1/2' deck has got to handle a lot of grass, and it will take plenty of power to make it function as designed. I don't see the smaller wheels and forks handling what I put them through at the speeds I prefer to run.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
10-14-2012, 09:15 PM
If the motor is up to it and it can knock it down in one pass at 10 or 15 MPH then we have a winner. I have always wondered if rear discharge can be mowed as fast because the deck does not generate the same standup suction as a side chute so it would seem thay may have problems with high speed mowing?

My City runs rear discharged and My son knows a guy rides one He said they cant go very fast or leaves alot standing grass
I know from seeing the parks they look bad with all the rows of cut grass kinda looks like I mowed my hay field

Realslowww
10-14-2012, 09:28 PM
The mower has a purpose for some applications but not mine, this mower will not allow the speed or maneuverability I can get with the 72", and if they have not picked up another engine of at least 40+ hp it will be underpowered. That 8 1/2' deck has got to handle a lot of grass, and it will take plenty of power to make it function as designed. I don't see the smaller wheels and forks handling what I put them through at the speeds I prefer to run.

37 may work with a rear discharge, Hustler recommends the 850 Kaw on a 72 rear discharge.

I think if we go back through the years and reread your post's we will find many excuses why you did not buy a 72 along time ago , this mower will more than likely be the same.

puppypaws
10-14-2012, 09:33 PM
My City runs rear discharged and My son knows a guy rides one He said they cant go very fast or leaves alot standing grass
I know from seeing the parks they look bad with all the rows of cut grass kinda looks like I mowed my hay field

If the grass you are cutting with a rear discharge mower has any size at all, what you described is exactly what it does. The mower will leave a windrow appearing to look as if it is waiting for a hay baler to pull it in so it can be baled.

puppypaws
10-14-2012, 09:39 PM
37 may work with a rear discharge, Hustler recommends the 850 Kaw on a 72 rear discharge.

I think if we go back through the years and reread your post's we will find many excuses why you did not buy a 72 along time ago , this mower will more than likely be the same.

I don't believe you will find a reason I specified why I never bought a 72. I guess with your background in physics, you do realize that 72 is only 6" wider than the 66 I've been running for the past six years, and I've run several 72's through the years while never seeing any real difference in maneuverability.

NEWT92
10-14-2012, 11:11 PM
Some more info.. Thumbs Up

http://www.rurallifestyledealer.com/pages/Spre/RLD-Exclusive-Hustler-Introduces-13-Line-Up,-Including-Raptor-Priced-at-Under-$3,000.php

jimjoy12
10-14-2012, 11:30 PM
i wonder if it could do the work of two 52s faster.

Ridin' Green
10-14-2012, 11:39 PM
Rear discharge finish cut decks like this one normally leave a lower grade finish to the cut than a side discharge deck. They also require more HP to run usually because instead of the grass being cut and blown out the side at the front, the grass has to be cut at the front, and then the long clippings have to pass back through the blades on their way out the rear of the deck, which adds to the power drain. Too, this machine has got to be quite a bit heavier than any other Z, or SZ for that matter, so I would think that the FX1000 would be the minimum engine that could run it efficiently, and I would want at least an additional 5 or so ponies.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 02:30 AM
I don't believe you will find a reason I specified why I never bought a 72. I guess with your background in physics, you do realize that 72 is only 6" wider than the 66 I've been running for the past six years, and I've run several 72's through the years while never seeing any real difference in maneuverability. Yaa but you timed your new 72 and it was around 25 percent fatser than your 66,just imagine how much faster this could be.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 02:37 AM
Rear discharge finish cut decks like this one normally leave a lower grade finish to the cut than a side discharge deck. They also require more HP to run usually because instead of the grass being cut and blown out the side at the front, the grass has to be cut at the front, and then the long clippings have to pass back through the blades on their way out the rear of the deck, which adds to the power drain. Too, this machine has got to be quite a bit heavier than any other Z, or SZ for that matter, so I would think that the FX1000 would be the minimum engine that could run it efficiently, and I would want at least an additional 5 or so ponies. from what I hear it requires way less power to run a rear discharge.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 02:42 AM
i wonder if it could do the work of two 52s faster. It would be way faster than 2 52's because it would cut your slow down and turn around time in half given the mowing speed is the same,my 72 is on average 30% faster than my 60 and I was shocked when I found this out.

28 thousand $'s is to much however.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 08:23 AM
Thats a serious mower right there! Shoot!
That machine is certainly not for the general mower guy! Parks, city, golf course roughs etc!

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 12:23 PM
from what I hear it requires way less power to run a rear discharge.

If you need varification of what I said, just go to Land Pride's Or Wood's websites and read what they have to say about their side discharge vs rear discharge mowers. The rear discharge decks require higher HP.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 01:56 PM
If you need varification of what I said, just go to Land Pride's Or Wood's websites and read what they have to say about their side discharge vs rear discharge mowers. The rear discharge decks require higher HP. I have had verification from several sources on rear discharge including Hustler but another is always welcome.

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 02:22 PM
I have had verification from several sources on rear discharge including Hustler but another is always welcome.

You need all the verification you can get, it may help you add to you knowledge in physics.

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 02:39 PM
I have had verification from several sources on rear discharge including Hustler but another is always welcome.

I see that both Woods and Landpride no longer offer side discharge decks for tractors with 3 pt hitches, but Frontier still does. I have several product brochures gathered over several years time from those companies that tell you in very specific wording that the rear discharge decks require more HP. I don't have a scanner here to scan them to show you though, but I did find the Frontier brochure online that shows the HP requirements for the side vs rear discharge decks. Scroll down to the spec page and read the HP requirements for yourself. Make sure you are comparing equivilent deck sizes too. They show both side and rear deck data here-

http://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/non_current/wpmowlit08017pr_rear_side_discharge_gm_fm_lit.pdf

What are the sources that you've varified this info from (other than Hustler supposedly)? Just guys you've asked or what? You are always rather vague when it comes to giving us insight into where you get all your data/info from.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 03:20 PM
I see that both Woods and Landpride no longer offer side discharge decks for tractors with 3 pt hitches, but Frontier still does. I have several product brochures gathered over several years time from those companies that tell you in very specific wording that the rear discharge decks require more HP. I don't have a scanner here to scan them to show you though, but I did find the Frontier brochure online that shows the HP requirements for the side vs rear discharge decks. Scroll down to the spec page and read the HP requirements for yourself. Make sure you are comparing equivilent deck sizes too. They show both side and rear deck data here-

http://www.deere.com/en_US/docs/non_current/wpmowlit08017pr_rear_side_discharge_gm_fm_lit.pdf

What are the sources that you've varified this info from (other than Hustler supposedly)? Just guys you've asked or what? You are always rather vague when it comes to giving us insight into where you get all your data/info from.

I demoed a 72 rear discharge Hustler back in 06 that I was interested in and it only had a 27 Kohler and I said something to the dealer about it and he said the rear discharge required less power. I looked into the new Hustler 2012 rear discharge 72 and the dealers I have talked to who have sold them told me they were selling them with 850's rather than 1000's because they did not require the same HP as the side chute, the Kabota dealer told me the same. I am just going by what I have been told while looking to buy.

Tharrell
10-15-2012, 03:28 PM
That's an awesome looking mower.
Hand it to Hustler and Excell to configure a big boy like that.
I mentioned it to my dealer today and she said they are recommending the 37 hp engine. I'd probably go for the diesel if it were available.
I wonder what it weighs considering my 60" Super Z is 1500 lbs?
Where did you get the pic, maybe post more if you have them?
Expo is next week so I guess we'll have more info then.

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 05:06 PM
QUOTE:

"The Super 104 is another enhanced product, based on the Super Z. Wings have been added to extend the mowing width to a 104-inch cut. Excel says it can mow up to 84 acres in eight hours at 10 miles per hour. The Super 104 has the HyperDrive system. Its MSRP is under $30,000."

That's a lot of grass mowing in one day, but remember; to cut that much you have got to run in a straight line at 10 mph and never turn around once. Who would us an illustration of cutting 84 acres in eight hours, other than a gimmick to gain your attention, while knowing in reality this is not possible.

Let's now use more realistic figures:

8.5' x 10 mph x 5280' x (70% efficiency) ÷ 43,560 = mowing 7.21 ac per hr

6' x 13 mph x 5280' x (70% efficiency) ÷ 43,560 = mowing 6.62 ac per hr

This is what speed versus width can do for productivity. This fold up $28,000.00 mower looks like a very productive machine, and in reality it is, but not nearly as much more than one would think when looking at the fast speeds I run with a 72" deck; in comparison to the slower speed with the 104" deck. This is not a good trade of money for someone such as myself.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 05:27 PM
I doubt that mower could be run like this. (not that any mower should be run like this)... http://youtu.be/arxl5wyjqpc

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 07:36 PM
QUOTE:

"The Super 104 is another enhanced product, based on the Super Z. Wings have been added to extend the mowing width to a 104-inch cut. Excel says it can mow up to 84 acres in eight hours at 10 miles per hour. The Super 104 has the HyperDrive system. Its MSRP is under $30,000."

That's a lot of grass mowing in one day, but remember; to cut that much you have got to run in a straight line at 10 mph and never turn around once. Who would us an illustration of cutting 84 acres in eight hours, other than a gimmick to gain your attention, while knowing in reality this is not possible.

Let's now use more realistic figures:

8.5' x 10 mph x 5280' x (70% efficiency) ÷ 43,560 = mowing 7.21 ac per hr

6' x 13 mph x 5280' x (70% efficiency) ÷ 43,560 = mowing 6.62 ac per hr

This is what speed versus width can do for productivity. This fold up $28,000.00 mower looks like a very productive machine, and in reality it is, but not nearly as much more than one would think when looking at the fast speeds I run with a 72" deck; in comparison to the slower speed with the 104" deck. This is not a good trade of money for someone such as myself.The ? is can you mow at 15 with the 104. Well Pupster we are waiting for you to let us know.

howierd3866
10-15-2012, 08:51 PM
I have 2 72 side discharge and 2 rear discharge I would love to have this one but not at $30k

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 09:13 PM
The ? is can you mow at 15 with the 104. Well Pupster we are waiting for you to let us know.

While looking at it from a physics point of view, no, this mower will never cut grass at 15 mph, it is not capable. The blades can't turn fast enough, and even if it could knock the grass down for finishing with a double cut, those wings would tear all to pieces bouncing over the ground at fast mowing speeds. I would say the caster forks would probably be the first component to break down, the is not a fast mowing speed designed mower.

Hustler will tell you, they do not make a mower designed to cut grass at 15 mph, and I figure they would like for the 104 to stay below 10.

Realslowww
10-15-2012, 09:35 PM
While looking at it from a physics point of view, no, this mower will never cut grass at 15 mph, it is not capable. The blades can't turn fast enough, and even if it could knock the grass down for finishing with a double cut, those wings would tear all to pieces bouncing over the ground at fast mowing speeds. I would say the caster forks would probably be the first component to break down, the is not a fast mowing speed designed mower.

Hustler will tell you, they do not make a mower designed to cut grass at 15 mph, and I figure they would like for the 104 to stay below 10.The thing is where I am your 72 at 15 would out cut the 104 at 10 and you are right the mower would probably fall apart doing what you do tp your 72.

For 30 grand screw that, for that I can build something much more productive

puppypaws
10-15-2012, 09:52 PM
The thing is where I am your 72 at 15 would out cut the 104 at 10 and you are right the mower would probably fall apart doing what you do tp your 72.

For 30 grand screw that, for that I can build something much more productive

This mower looks like the "cats meow" for some applications, maybe for a school system mowing several football field and baseball field complexes, very smooth large open areas. You can take your mower and put it beside this mower on a football field and you will mow much faster, just not quite as wide.

You can take your mower and put it into what would be considered reasonably rough cutting, and your mower will still be going strong when someone is working to keep the wings on the big boy intact. Look at the picture close, then think about how these wings will react while floating over rough ground at any speed at all. Look at the hinge points, the hydraulic cylinders, and the much smaller forks and spindles. The mower will be great on manicured large open areas, but like I say, the ones that will suit this mower are sports fields and the likes thereof.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 10:11 PM
Notice the front of the deck is straight? I wonder whats going on under there with over lap.

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 10:16 PM
Notice the front of the deck is straight? I wonder whats going on under there with over lap.

I'm guessing that being a rear discharge deck the center blade is offset to the rear like they normally are on a 3 pt RD deck.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 10:32 PM
I'm guessing that being a rear discharge deck the center blade is offset to the rear like they normally are on a 3 pt RD deck.

They may of done that with this deck but there other RD decks a middle blade forward, on the ztrs anyway.

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 10:51 PM
They may of done that with this deck but there other RD decks a middle blade forward, on the ztrs anyway.

What I am thinking is that in order to keep the deck compact enough/shaped correctly to fit under the frame and have the belt as short as possible, they may have used a staggered design kinda like this, with the parentheses representinmg the wing mowers-



O O
O) O (O

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 11:00 PM
What I am thinking is that in order to keep the deck compact enough/shaped correctly to fit under the frame and have the belt as short as possible, they may have used a staggered design kinda like this, with the parentheses representinmg the wing mowers-



O O
O) O (O

Ok, got it!
Be interesting to see the full photos of it. A few pulleys on that thing!
Interested in seeing the new line up actually, and the new seat add on.

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 11:07 PM
I can only imagine what the deck belt would be like to route around all those pulleys and idlers.:dizzy:

I wonder just how long those wings will last before they start flopping from wear too. Interesting is right! I doubt I'll ever see one here, but then again, maybe so. The county complex here is freakin huge, and they do use SZ's on it along with several WAM's.

Mickhippy
10-15-2012, 11:23 PM
I can certainly see a use for that machine however, with only the 35 on it it may be under powered. But Im of the thinking that RD deck needs less power so 35 may work. I'll never demo so will never really know!

I did find this though, post #7... http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=327178&highlight=rear+discharge+deck+power

Ridin' Green
10-15-2012, 11:36 PM
I did find this though, post #7... http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=327178&highlight=rear+discharge+deck+power

Now that interesting because it is in direct contrast with all the other rear discharge deck manu's that I have either link's to or brochures from like the link I posted before about that. If I had a scanner/printer here, I could post several more that contradict Hustler's rep.

Mickhippy
10-16-2012, 12:00 AM
Mate, Ive never even sat on one let alone driven one so I dont know or wont argue one way or another but the way I see it, RD decks dont rely on vacuum or need to send a lot of clipping out a relatively small hole. Cut n drop like a bush hog. Sure, some gets "thrown" but but its not like it get dispursed across a few meters.
That said, the little diesel isnt loving it...http://youtu.be/Tpt5EgWJx0w
Likes this a little more... http://youtu.be/9fuXz0vMB0Q

Ridin' Green
10-16-2012, 12:10 AM
Mate, Ive never even sat on one let alone driven one so I dont know or wont argue one way or another but the way I see it, RD decks dont rely on vacuum or need to send a lot of clipping out a relatively small hole. Cut n drop like a bush hog. Sure, some gets "thrown" but but its not like it get dispursed across a few meters.
That said, the little diesel isnt loving it...http://youtu.be/Tpt5EgWJx0w
Likes this a little more... http://youtu.be/9fuXz0vMB0Q

Too bad there's no way to get ones demeanor across on a forum. You just can't tell exactly how people mean things on a forum without being able to hear the inflection in their voice. I know you weren't advocating it one way or another, and I appreciate the link. Sorry if it came across any other way. Thumbs Up:drinkup:

Like I told realsloww(sp), the brochures I have say that because all the grass has to be passed back over the blades where it tends to wrap them and slow them down causing a power drain, the rear discharge decks need an additional 5 or so HP per deck size. I can't say for sure either since i haven't run one on my CUT....yet.:)


I wonder if the first guy has a mulch kit or something? It sure bogged a lot easier than the second one going by the sound.

Mickhippy
10-16-2012, 12:29 AM
Too bad there's no way to get ones demeanor across on a forum. You just can't tell exactly how people mean things on a forum without being able to hear the inflection in their voice. I know you weren't advocating it one way or another, and I appreciate the link. Sorry if it came across any other way. Thumbs Up:drinkup:

Like I told realsloww(sp), the brochures I have say that because all the grass has to be passed back over the blades where it tends to wrap them and slow them down causing a power drain, the rear discharge decks need an additional 5 or so HP per deck size. I can't say for sure either since i haven't run one on my CUT....yet.:)


I wonder if the first guy has a mulch kit or something? It sure bogged a lot easier than the second one going by the sound.

Nah mate, no problems here. Just shooting the breeze! haaa No work on today so bored sh!tless.

All I do know is that Ive seen one working, just around the corner actually and the finish was terrible. Just like or worse than in that vid. Was cutting longer grass though!

Ridin' Green
10-16-2012, 12:38 AM
A few years ago,my wife and I were driving by a guy mowing on a larger CUT one size bigger than the one I had at the time, so we stopped to watch him work because I was thinking about getting the same exact mower he had (Woods RD90). He was literally using it to bush hog the field. It was standing field grass that was about 4' tall or more, and very thick. He was cutting it down alright with the CUT, and at a good rate of speed, but he was leaving a lot standing too. That mower has swinging blades like a bush hog even though it is designed as a finish mower. While the cut he was going for wasn't anything more than to knock the field down to around 6", he had to double cut the entire field to do it because there was just too much material for the deck to process in one pass. It was interesting to watch though. Looked just like he had used a MoCo to do it when he was done.

I'd think that as long as that Hustler has the cahones to run it, it would work just as well.

Realslowww
10-16-2012, 01:43 PM
I can see maybe 20,28 and they be smok'in.

PWM
10-16-2012, 03:15 PM
Super 104 spec sheet.

PWM
10-16-2012, 03:23 PM
With the wings up it fits on a regular sized trailer.

Ridin' Green
10-16-2012, 03:27 PM
Thanks for the link. I see it has a BTS of 15,800 and top speed of 11 mph. The speed makes sense if they don't want those wings decks getting beaten off on rough ground. That would be a good soccer field etc. mower I would think, but for the majority of users I still think the SZ is a better bet for day in, day out use.

I didn't read the entire PDF. Can you mow with only one wing down (or no wings down) like you can with other batwing mowers? I see each wing runs off a belt from the outer spindles, but don't see where it says anything about being able to disable one wing or both while still running the center deck.

Tharrell
10-16-2012, 04:15 PM
That thing is friggin AWESOME!!!
However, 2350 lbs.
I had to upgrade my trailer once already this year when I got my Super Z.
I don't have a use for it but there probably are some out there.
I have to say, Hustler and Excell aren't afraid to experiment.
Good for you.:)

PWM
10-16-2012, 04:44 PM
Both wings need to be down for mowing. With the compact size and maneuverability of the Super Z there is not a lot of need for being able to mow with one wing up or just the center deck. Each wing can float up and down 15degrees to handle uneven ground.

puppypaws
10-16-2012, 05:05 PM
Both wings need to be down for mowing. With the compact size and maneuverability of the Super Z there is not a lot of need for being able to mow with one wing up or just the center deck. Each wing can float up and down 15degrees to handle uneven ground.

I believe this mower was brought into the Hustler lineup for a specialized market purpose, are you at will to say which market? I personally would think this mower best suited to smooth, large open manicured areas. I just can't see a city or county turning their employees loose with a mower of this caliber to cut road ditches and medians.

Mickhippy
10-16-2012, 05:14 PM
That thing is HEAVY, over 1000kg.
Specs say Grammer seat with isolator platform. Is it the new platform that can be used on the 2011/12 SZ's?
26" tires.
38hp Kohler option
Hydro deck lift. Is it the same lift system thats been around for a while?

How has the speed been limited. Does it have different wheel motors from the current SZ? HT? Larger drive tires mean faster speed or has it been limited to the slower speed through the linkages or something.
I mean, surely the current "hyperdrive" system is enough to move this machine along when it is currently only using a fraction of the potential output. I just dont understand whats happening here. Can someone explain?

I agree with Tharrell, at least Hustler is having a go. I have no need/want for this machine but I sure would like to demo one!

PWM
10-16-2012, 05:48 PM
I believe this mower was brought into the Hustler lineup for a specialized market purpose, are you at will to say which market? I personally would think this mower best suited to smooth, large open manicured areas. I just can't see a city or county turning their employees loose with a mower of this caliber to cut road ditches and medians.

The 104 is designed to maintain A, B and C turf like you said. Roadside ditches we would consider D type turf which is better suited for a tractor. Example applications would be golf course roughs, parks, sport fields, rural properties or any large areas that are maintained on a regular basis.

PWM
10-16-2012, 06:12 PM
That thing is HEAVY, over 1000kg.
Specs say Grammer seat with isolator platform. Is it the new platform that can be used on the 2011/12 SZ's?
26" tires.
38hp Kohler option
Hydro deck lift. Is it the same lift system thats been around for a while?

How has the speed been limited. Does it have different wheel motors from the current SZ? HT? Larger drive tires mean faster speed or has it been limited to the slower speed through the linkages or something.
I mean, surely the current "hyperdrive" system is enough to move this machine along when it is currently only using a fraction of the potential output. I just dont understand whats happening here. Can someone explain?

I agree with Tharrell, at least Hustler is having a go. I have no need/want for this machine but I sure would like to demo one!

The deck lift is new and is all hydraulic, not electric/hydraulic. We are using larger displacement wheel motors to give this unit more torque for handling the additional weight.

Mickhippy
10-16-2012, 06:18 PM
The deck lift is new and is all hydraulic, not electric/hydraulic. We are using larger displacement wheel motors to give this unit more torque for handling the additional weight.


The machine is a beast!
Not that it needs it but could the deck lift be fitted to the current SZ?

Love to see some more pics of the deck, the under seat workings etc....

Realslowww
10-16-2012, 06:28 PM
The deck lift is new and is all hydraulic, not electric/hydraulic. We are using larger displacement wheel motors to give this unit more torque for handling the additional weight.


So the wheel motors are similar to the concept of the ATZ, which you no longer make. Can you put those wheel motors on a current Super Z if you want more torque and how much will those wheel motors allow you to pull?

Thanks for any help and by the way nice mower but 28 if that is retail is to high for me and like Puppy posted a current 72 Super mowing wide open can give it a run for the money in productvity but may not cut as clean.

puppypaws
10-16-2012, 07:16 PM
The 104 is designed to maintain A, B and C turf like you said. Roadside ditches we would consider D type turf which is better suited for a tractor. Example applications would be golf course roughs, parks, sport fields, rural properties or any large areas that are maintained on a regular basis.

Thanks Paul, that's the way I see this mower being utilized, glad you verified my thoughts.

puppypaws
10-16-2012, 08:44 PM
That thing is HEAVY, over 1000kg.
Specs say Grammer seat with isolator platform. Is it the new platform that can be used on the 2011/12 SZ's?
26" tires.
38hp Kohler option
Hydro deck lift. Is it the same lift system thats been around for a while?

How has the speed been limited. Does it have different wheel motors from the current SZ? HT? Larger drive tires mean faster speed or has it been limited to the slower speed through the linkages or something.
I mean, surely the current "hyperdrive" system is enough to move this machine along when it is currently only using a fraction of the potential output. I just dont understand whats happening here. Can someone explain?

I agree with Tharrell, at least Hustler is having a go. I have no need/want for this machine but I sure would like to demo one!

The 38 hp Kohler engine option sounds like you are really getting more power, but when you read this (J1995 Power 3 34.2) in the engine specs it tells the real story. J1940 allows the engine manufacturers to add up to 15% of actual hp and list it in that manner for advertising purposes as so-called gross hp. This means by showing a 38 hp rating they are staying well within the parameters of the J1940 classification by being only 10% above the true usable hp which is 34.2. To prove this I am listing below information Kohler includes in their specifications.

QUOTE:

"Kilowatt (kW) and gross torque (fl-lbs) specifications for Kohler general purpose engines are calculated pursuant to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J1940 - calculated with the air cleaner and muffler removed, per the SAE standard. Actual engine gross torque are lower and affected by, but not limited to, accessories (air cleaner, exhaust, charging, cooling, fuel pump, etc.), application, engine speed and ambient operating conditions (temperature, humidity and altitude)."


J1995 Power Certified by 3rd Party Witness

TJ1995 Power 3 34.2 / This is the usable hp of the Kohler CV980 38 hp engine


The Kawasaki engines are now power-rated to a tighter, automotive-caliber SAE J2723 standard, which they tell you will keep their listed hp within 2% of actual usable hp at all times.

Kawasaki has now listed their FX1000V (37 hp at the old rating) at 35 hp under the closer tolerance rating system, and what this means is...they are guaranteeing their 35 hp listing to be with 2% of actual hp...2% of 35 = .70 hp which equates to in a worst case scenario their listed 35 hp engine may in actuality have a true 34.3 hp, but guaranteed to be no less.

You now have the average person buying a mower with what he believes to be a Kohler 38 hp engine, when in reality it is a 34.2 hp engine. He bought the mower with this engine for the fact of believing he was getting 3 more hp over the 35 hp Kawasaki engine, when really the Kawasaki 35 hp engine had more usable hp than the Kohler 38 hp engine, not but 1/10 of a hp, which is non-detectable, but would still be greater.

Realslowww
10-16-2012, 09:14 PM
I have never seen anybody so anal about lawnmower's. :laugh:

puppypaws
10-16-2012, 09:18 PM
I have never seen anybody so anal about lawnmower's. :laugh:

I just want you to be more educated on your engine selections if you ever make enough money to trade...:laugh:

StanWilhite
10-16-2012, 09:26 PM
I just want you to be more educated on your engine selections if you ever make enough money to trade...:laugh:

OH....that hurt! :laugh:

GMLC
10-16-2012, 09:32 PM
Is a rear discharge more of a rough cut mower?

If so it wouldn't seem appropriate for sports fields or manicured lawns.

puppypaws
10-16-2012, 09:45 PM
Is a rear discharge more of a rough cut mower?

If so it wouldn't seem appropriate for sports fields or manicured lawns.

You've got a very good point here, but if grass is cut on a very strict schedule the rear discharge deck will do a good job.

My neighbor has a rear discharge Super Z and we meet when cutting the sides of the road that runs by each of our farms. His mower leaves a very respectable cut if the grass has not gotten too large, but when I mow up to where he's stopped and the grass had gotten somewhat larger than normal, I can see a windrow directly between where the tires had run. Sometimes to the point I just run back over his windrow at top speed and fan it out to make it look better.

GMLC
10-16-2012, 09:50 PM
You've got a very good point here, but if grass is cut on a very strict schedule the rear discharge deck will do a good job.

My neighbor has a rear discharge Super Z and we meet when cutting the sides of the road that runs by each of our farms. His mower leaves a very respectable cut if the grass has not gotten too large, but when I mow up to where he's stopped and the grass had gotten somewhat larger than normal, I can see a windrow directly between where the tires had run. Sometimes to the point I just run back over his windrow at top speed and fan it out to make it look better.

Good to know, thanks. I have zero experience with rear discharge.

Realslowww
10-16-2012, 11:00 PM
I just want you to be more educated on your engine selections if you ever make enough money to trade...:laugh:

I have no interest in the newer Super Z,I could have one delivered tommarrow if I desired.

I would have to change the drive for what I want to do and it makes more sence to change and mod one of the mowers I currently have to make what I want.

I will be it the new mower is a nice mower but not what I want, the pulling capacity for it is only rated at 500 so you see the new 104 changed the drive because of it.

You have both old and new do me a favor look at the 66 and compare where the control linkages hook up on the pumps on both mowers.

What would work better for me would be to put 44 HP Generacs on both my 60 and 72 and update both drives as needed,update the 72 for speed and do the 60 for pulling and steep hills.

To me the new drive and a bigger motor is the only thing the new mower offers and for the type of work I do the rest is mute.

StanWilhite
10-17-2012, 12:23 AM
I have no interest in the newer Super Z,I could have one delivered tommarrow if I desired.

I would have to change the drive for what I want to do and it makes more sence to change and mod one of the mowers I currently have to make what I want.

I will be it the new mower is a nice mower but not what I want, the pulling capacity for it is only rated at 500 so you see the new 104 changed the drive because of it.

You have both old and new do me a favor look at the 66 and compare where the control linkages hook up on the pumps on both mowers.

What would work better for me would be to put 44 HP Generacs on both my 60 and 72 and update both drives as needed,update the 72 for speed and do the 60 for pulling and steep hills.

To me the new drive and a bigger motor is the only thing the new mower offers and for the type of work I do the rest is mute.

Oh boy, I know I'm going to look like the stern looking elderly school teacher with glasses and her hair up in a "bun" but I'm going to do this anyway....only because I've noticed it before.
Realslow, as I said, I don't mean to be condescending but I think you would want to know if you're using the word "mute" when it should be "moot".
But, don't feel bad, it's a common mistake.

(I'm not looking these 2 words up in the dictionary, just an "off of the top of my head" definition).

The word "moot" means "it's irrelevant"....as in "it doesn't matter anyway". The word "mute" means to "quieten down" as in "you mute your car stereo when you go thru a drive thru".

Sorry if I sound like a "know it all jerk", but if the tables were turned, I would want to know . I mentioned this once before but I don't think you got it.
Go ahead....call me an jerk! :-) Stan

Ridin' Green
10-17-2012, 12:45 AM
According to the PDF, the 38 Kohler is a CA option only.

From the PDF-

Kohler (CA only)
CV980
38HP

GSO LAWNEN4CER
10-17-2012, 03:56 AM
I dont see how they can justify the 30k price tag,thats insane.Its not like they had to start from scratch and develope a whole new mower.Its built off of a existing design. So charge 22k for hydos that pick up two wings,and prolly 1 gage heavier steel?

That mower is not worth the price. period.

Realslowww
10-17-2012, 07:28 AM
I dont see how they can justify the 30k price tag,thats insane.Its not like they had to start from scratch and develope a whole new mower.Its built off of a existing design. So charge 22k for hydos that pick up two wings,and prolly 1 gage heavier steel?

That mower is not worth the price. period.

You are right the mower is overpriced and would take a while to pay for itself, a 72 at 14 is a much better value but the new mower is really cool none the less and has applications.

Realslowww
10-17-2012, 07:31 AM
Oh boy, I know I'm going to look like the stern looking elderly school teacher with glasses and her hair up in a "bun" but I'm going to do this anyway....only because I've noticed it before.
Realslow, as I said, I don't mean to be condescending but I think you would want to know if you're using the word "mute" when it should be "moot".
But, don't feel bad, it's a common mistake.

(I'm not looking these 2 words up in the dictionary, just an "off of the top of my head" definition).

The word "moot" means "it's irrelevant"....as in "it doesn't matter anyway". The word "mute" means to "quieten down" as in "you mute your car stereo when you go thru a drive thru".

Sorry if I sound like a "know it all jerk", but if the tables were turned, I would want to know . I mentioned this once before but I don't think you got it.
Go ahead....call me an jerk! :-) Stan


I thought I was bad,you don't have anything better to do?

lotsagrass
10-17-2012, 07:37 AM
Let's see....we paid less than that for a (all new) John Deere 4120 compact utility tractor (2.4 liter 4 cylinder turbo diesel, 4-wheel drive) with a loader and 72" Bush Hog finish mower. $30k is stupid.

This is the tractor I speak of. Much more useful than a 72" finish mower for $30k.

http://www.openbloom.com/GEAR-Etc-1/eXmark/tractor10-22-05-1/713612554_7iU7D-L-1.jpg

lotsagrass
10-17-2012, 07:49 AM
more useful than a 104" I mean....for what you get. Sure, apples and oranges....but I was just talking about the price tag. $30k is very high.

puppypaws
10-17-2012, 08:41 AM
more useful than a 104" I mean....for what you get. Sure, apples and oranges....but I was just talking about the price tag. $30k is very high.


The 4120 makes a great deal more sense to most, and by far more usable, but there are people and institutions with money (not necessarily their own) that will buy the 104, but I don't see it being a really good seller.

If you think the 104 is priced high, this 16.5' cut Toro 5900; of which I checked the price day before yesterday is, ARE YOU READY... $90,000.00, and the area rep told me this was not their best seller, he said their best seller was the 4100 with the 10.5' cut, he tried to make me believe this was a much better bargain at $70,000.00.

When you add the cab to this 5900 is goes to 105K...When he quoted these prices I was shocked to say the least.

http://media.toro.com/PublishingImages/ProductCatalog440X510/Groundsmaster-5900GM5900_31598.jpg

Ridin' Green
10-17-2012, 08:48 AM
Now that is insane for any mower!:dizzy:


For 105K you can buy 3 good ztr's and pay for 3 guys wages to run them for an entire year's mowing season.

lotsagrass
10-17-2012, 08:54 AM
The 4120 makes a great deal more sense to most, and by far more usable, but there are people and institutions with money (not necessarily their own) that will buy the 104, but I don't see it being a really good seller.

I understand exactly what you mean. If you don't have to spend your own money AND the tool is exactly what you're looking for/need, then I can see them buying it. A full size tractor would be too heavy too if you're just interested in mowing a nice lawn....but a BIG lawn :-)

StanWilhite
10-17-2012, 12:09 PM
I thought I was bad,you don't have anything better to do?

LOL....apparently not....at least not at that time of day. :)

Realslowww
10-17-2012, 12:53 PM
Hustler is building a new ATZ mower with high torque pulling capacity. The tech claims it is in production and will be much better than the old unit for torque on hills.

Tharrell
10-17-2012, 05:22 PM
You know, it would be cool if the blades operated off hydraulics and the wings were independent of the main deck in such a way that the mower could be used in tighter spaces if need be.
Although, I suspect this mower is designed to give a wide cutting stance and still be trailerable.
I don't know, wouldn't 2 72" be a better value and cut more, faster?
Somebody, somewhere has the beans counted to make it work I'm sure.

puppypaws
10-17-2012, 08:21 PM
You know, it would be cool if the blades operated off hydraulics and the wings were independent of the main deck in such a way that the mower could be used in tighter spaces if need be.
Although, I suspect this mower is designed to give a wide cutting stance and still be trailerable.
I don't know, wouldn't 2 72" be a better value and cut more, faster?
Somebody, somewhere has the beans counted to make it work I'm sure.

The two 72's with their faster speed could realistically be 40% more productive at about 2/3 the price. This 104 is for certain applications of which I'm afraid many will not find a need. If you got into perfectly smooth turf where the 72's could utilize all their speed, they could easily be over twice as productive, but this is what 15 mph versus 11 mph can do for productivity.

StanWilhite
10-17-2012, 08:28 PM
The two 72's with their faster speed could realistically be 40% more productive at about 2/3 the price. This 104 is for certain applications of which I'm afraid many will not find a need. If you got into perfectly smooth turf where the 72's could utilize all their speed, they could easily be over twice as productive, but this is what 15 mph versus 11 mph can do for productivity.

I feel the same way you do Puppy, it may be a little too "specialized" for a very large majority of landscapers/mowers.

The one significant thing that would offset it's higher cost, would be the labor cost to run the extra Z (when comparing 2 Z's to this mower).
(I didn't read the whole thread so this may have already been brought up.)

Realslowww
10-17-2012, 10:04 PM
I will probably see one at the state University a mile up the road. It would work perfect there and they use some Hustlers.

The new ATZ that is in production will use the same drive I was lead to believe.

puppypaws
10-18-2012, 09:25 PM
I feel the same way you do Puppy, it may be a little too "specialized" for a very large majority of landscapers/mowers.

The one significant thing that would offset it's higher cost, would be the labor cost to run the extra Z (when comparing 2 Z's to this mower).
(I didn't read the whole thread so this may have already been brought up.)


I was at my dealer's today and noticed 4 Super Z's sitting outside their shop entrance, and they looked like they had been rode hard and put up wet on more than one occasion. I ask my friend which is their head mechanic where the mowers had come from, he said one of our customer's just bought four new Super Z's, and those are the ones he traded. He then went on to say, this customer trades all his mowers just before the warranty runs out, and says his business operates much better that way, the customer says when the warranty runs out they can dollar you to death.

RoyalTree
10-18-2012, 11:22 PM
I was just quoted 60k for a toro 5900, thats a 16 ft cut. Why not get a toro 4500 or 5900 if you need that extra size or stay with a 72. 30k will be hard to justify.
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-19-2012, 04:20 AM
I was at my dealer's today and noticed 4 Super Z's sitting outside their shop entrance, and they looked like they had been rode hard and put up wet on more than one occasion. I ask my friend which is their head mechanic where the mowers had come from, he said one of our customer's just bought four new Super Z's, and those are the ones he traded. He then went on to say, this customer trades all his mowers just before the warranty runs out, and says his business operates much better that way, the customer says when the warranty runs out they can dollar you to death.

I would have thought the same thing but a savy person can keep them going cheap, if you mow a ton of grass and really use the warranty to it's fullest extent then getting new machines when the warranty runs out makes the most sence.

Like I saw where you did a post back a while ago where you were talking about the difference between a ATZ wheel motor and the Super. I found the ATZ wheel motors for 170 new and with prices like that unless you are running a ton of hours up every year it may be more cost effective to fix what you have.

I can update both of my Supers with 44 Generacs and ATZ wheel motors for around 5 grand and have more powerful mowers than practically almost anything out there. That is more cost effective for me than buying a new Super Z.

johnnybravo8802
10-20-2012, 05:11 PM
If you need varification of what I said, just go to Land Pride's Or Wood's websites and read what they have to say about their side discharge vs rear discharge mowers. The rear discharge decks require higher HP.
That's actually not correct. A rear discharge requires less HP. This is true because a rear discharge only cuts the blade of grass once and then spits it out the back which means it doesn't have far to travel and this requires less HP. With a side discharge, the furthest blade cuts the blade of grass, then sends it to the next two blades and then it's cut twice more which means the clippings have to travel the full width of the deck before their discharged. It requires more HP to do all of this-the laws of physics will tell you this is so.

johnnybravo8802
10-20-2012, 05:30 PM
Do you guys realize this thing has an MSRP of $30,000!!!!:cry::cry:You could buy 3 Super Z's for the price of one of these machines. That means that one flex wing for this mower costs as much as an entire Super Z!!!!!!!!!!:dizzy:That's completely ridiculous. I assume this machine is meant to replace the range wing which had an 11' swath. However, what you have to remember is that the range wing was an industrial machine and had two engine options-38 HP Kubota diesel or a Ford 54 HP engine:weightlifter:. In essence, this machine won't really compare if you're looking at apples to apples and will probably be underpowered.

What you also have to look at is practicality and productivity. I tried out a Lastec 100' with a 38 HP kubota and wasn't impressed. This thing was so slow and cumbersome, it was a joke and was only practical out in large open spaces. You can forget about maneuvering around trees with a mower this size-it just won't do it!! Also, when the Lastec was pointed a little down hill, it just slipped and slid because the weight of 100' of deck was always dragging it down hill. My 60" Scag was literally running circles around this machine and the rep got mad about it and accused me of turning up the mower, which I didn't. The Lastec was also a rear discharge and left a really crappy cut in contrast to my velocity deck.

I think they said the ground speed on this mower was 10-11 MPH. Trust me, 3 Super Z's(Cost of mower) at 15-16 MPH will far out cut this mower. Great concept and nice looking mower but not practical from a productivity and economical standpoint.

Ridin' Green
10-20-2012, 07:15 PM
That's actually not correct. A rear discharge requires less HP. This is true because a rear discharge only cuts the blade of grass once and then spits it out the back which means it doesn't have far to travel and this requires less HP. With a side discharge, the furthest blade cuts the blade of grass, then sends it to the next two blades and then it's cut twice more which means the clippings have to travel the full width of the deck before their discharged. It requires more HP to do all of this-the laws of physics will tell you this is so.

I understand exactly how they work bro. You can argue with the manu's if you want, but they say more HP is required, and the link I posted shows that to be true. It's also my experience. The rear discharge decks cut the clippings more than once as well, because the clippings get cut at the front then sent back over and round the blades all the way to the rear before going on out the exit at the back of the deck. Each blade gets wrapped up in/by the clippings from front to back, not just at the front like a side discharge deck does, and that drains HP. Run both sometime on the same exact machine on the same day, on the same turf. You'll get to experience it for yourself firsthand. The difference isn't drastic, but it is there.:)

johnnybravo8802
10-20-2012, 07:58 PM
I understand exactly how they work bro. You can argue with the manu's if you want, but they say more HP is required, and the link I posted shows that to be true. It's also my experience. The rear discharge decks cut the clippings more than once as well, because the clippings get cut at the front then sent back over and round the blades all the way to the rear before going on out the exit at the back of the deck. Each blade gets wrapped up in/by the clippings from front to back, not just at the front like a side discharge deck does, and that drains HP. Run both sometime on the same exact machine on the same day, on the same turf. You'll get to experience it for yourself firsthand. The difference isn't drastic, but it is there.:)
You're experience is obviously different than mine. I have run both decks and have experienced the difference first hand also. I've run just about every brand out there and every salesman and mechanic I've ever spoken to have told me that the rear uses less HP. Everyone I've ever spoken to who do this for a living every day have also said the same thing. That's been my experience. Logically, to me, since the clippings only have to travel out the back of the deck instead of the full width of the deck, it should require less HP.

Groomer
10-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Hey, maybe the guy that posted the 28 acre thread should be looking at one of these! (C'mon kid, we got some easy finance terms.)

Realslowww
10-20-2012, 08:27 PM
Do you guys realize this thing has an MSRP of $30,000!!!!:cry::cry:You could buy 3 Super Z's for the price of one of these machines. That means that one flex wing for this mower costs as much as an entire Super Z!!!!!!!!!!:dizzy:That's completely ridiculous. I assume this machine is meant to replace the range wing which had an 11' swath. However, what you have to remember is that the range wing was an industrial machine and had two engine options-38 HP Kubota diesel or a Ford 54 HP engine:weightlifter:. In essence, this machine won't really compare if you're looking at apples to apples and will probably be underpowered.

What you also have to look at is practicality and productivity. I tried out a Lastec 100' with a 38 HP kubota and wasn't impressed. This thing was so slow and cumbersome, it was a joke and was only practical out in large open spaces. You can forget about maneuvering around trees with a mower this size-it just won't do it!! Also, when the Lastec was pointed a little down hill, it just slipped and slid because the weight of 100' of deck was always dragging it down hill. My 60" Scag was literally running circles around this machine and the rep got mad about it and accused me of turning up the mower, which I didn't. The Lastec was also a rear discharge and left a really crappy cut in contrast to my velocity deck.

I think they said the ground speed on this mower was 10-11 MPH. Trust me, 3 Super Z's(Cost of mower) at 15-16 MPH will far out cut this mower. Great concept and nice looking mower but not practical from a productivity and economical standpoint.

Like I said the machine has a purpose but for the professional cutter not really,you will see this thing at the college where the state pisses money away without a care. it is a nice mower how ever.

I have been looking at components just to get an idea of what is needed to take the z technology foward and like you wrote these 100 inch cut machines are a joke on a few fronts, come on manufactueres at least put some real wheels and tires on them.

Somebody needs to make a Z with 31 X 13.5 or 15.5 tires or bigger for good traction as an option for a big Z with 2 speed wheel motors for doing hills as well as speed.

I was just looking at a 51 HP diesel engine on a site and that would be great it only weighs 350 pounds. A 12 to 15 hundred CC gas fuel injected engine would be great to.Everything is getting to be so outrageously expensive that good tires and wheel motor's would add alot to the price.

A big Z with quality light weight pull behind capabilty is the way to go for a do it all machine for large jobs that can fit on a 16 or 20 foot trailer.

By the way you are right about the rear discharge, I have been looking at them for over 6 years.

Ridin' Green
10-20-2012, 10:10 PM
You're experience is obviously different than mine. I have run both decks and have experienced the difference first hand also. I've run just about every brand out there and every salesman and mechanic I've ever spoken to have told me that the rear uses less HP. Everyone I've ever spoken to who do this for a living every day have also said the same thing. That's been my experience. Logically, to me, since the clippings only have to travel out the back of the deck instead of the full width of the deck, it should require less HP.

I do understand that everyone's experiences can be different, but the statements in bold are something any of us, including me can post/say, but they are not provable on a forum like this. So, since I don't have a scanner to show you these, I simply took some pics of a Land Pride brochure to show I am not just posting my own opinion. I also understand that to many it seems logical that a rear discharge deck should use less HP, so they post that as fact (not saying that's what you did since I don't know that for fact or you as a person, but it happens here all the time on LS with many different subjects).

The first pic is the cover of the brochure, then one of the two facing pages showing their finish mower decks, and finally what LP says about the rear discharge decks (which is the deck in the lower right corner of the pic of both pages).

johnnybravo8802
10-20-2012, 11:42 PM
I do understand that everyone's experiences can be different, but the statements in bold are something any of us, including me can post/say, but they are not provable on a forum like this. So, since I don't have a scanner to show you these, I simply took some pics of a Land Pride brochure to show I am not just posting my own opinion. I also understand that to many it seems logical that a rear discharge deck should use less HP, so they post that as fact (not saying that's what you did since I don't know that for fact or you as a person, but it happens here all the time on LS with many different subjects).

The first pic is the cover of the brochure, then one of the two facing pages showing their finish mower decks, and finally what LP says about the rear discharge decks (which is the deck in the lower right corner of the pic of both pages).

I can't attest to the Land Pride brand but what I do know is that you're referring to a three point finish mower pulled behind a tractor and I'm referring to a ZTR with a rear discharge deck. Maybe that's the difference.

johnnybravo8802
10-21-2012, 12:26 AM
Ridin Green-You asked for proof so I found it for you. Go to www.grasshoppermower.com and look under 4X rear discharge decks. It says it twice-"requires less HP." With the land pride brochure, they're referring to a finish mower versus a rotary, requiring more HP. Again, I'm talking from experience-I owned a New Holland TC30 with a Bushhog brand 60" rear discharge finish mower. I know exactly how they perform. A finish mower behind a tractor requires more HP over a rotary simply because it's pulling more RPM. You're welcomed to call a dealer and find out for yourself. Ask Puppy-he can tell you all about tractors.

retrodog
10-21-2012, 12:54 AM
I am a grasshopper and hustler dealer. I own a 2013 325d with 4x rear discharge deck, and a 725d5427 side discharge demo. I can honestly say from first hand experience with basically same mower and engine side by side. The rear discharge set up runs much less blade tip speed than the side discharge. You can tell the motor is turned down too. The rear discharge on the hopper manages grass much better as it has 3some regular 21" blades like normal, then a 4th blade turning the opposite direction mangling the clippings. Since i got my own rear setup and let people use, alot have switched over. Can say how nice it is to cut yards and not have dust grass and dirt all over me and the mower. My mower has 16 hours so far, and it still looks just like my new ones...
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
10-21-2012, 05:32 AM
Ridin Green-You asked for proof so I found it for you. Go to www.grasshoppermower.com and look under 4X rear discharge decks. It says it twice-"requires less HP." With the land pride brochure, they're referring to a finish mower versus a rotary, requiring more HP. Again, I'm talking from experience-I owned a New Holland TC30 with a Bushhog brand 60" rear discharge finish mower. I know exactly how they perform. A finish mower behind a tractor requires more HP over a rotary simply because it's pulling more RPM. You're welcomed to call a dealer and find out for yourself. Ask Puppy-he can tell you all about tractors.

Puppy can tell you about anything, hey Puppy how did the universe get here? what is the missing dark matter that makes it up, who is going to win the Super Bowl this year? :)

Realslowww
10-21-2012, 05:34 AM
I am a grasshopper and hustler dealer. I own a 2013 325d with 4x rear discharge deck, and a 725d5427 side discharge demo. I can honestly say from first hand experience with basically same mower and engine side by side. The rear discharge set up runs much less blade tip speed than the side discharge. You can tell the motor is turned down too. The rear discharge on the hopper manages grass much better as it has 3some regular 21" blades like normal, then a 4th blade turning the opposite direction mangling the clippings. Since i got my own rear setup and let people use, alot have switched over. Can say how nice it is to cut yards and not have dust grass and dirt all over me and the mower. My mower has 16 hours so far, and it still looks just like my new ones...
Posted via Mobile Device

how does the cut look compared t o side.

johnnybravo8802
10-21-2012, 08:46 AM
Puppy can tell you about anything, hey Puppy how did the universe get here? what is the missing dark matter that makes it up, who is going to win the Super Bowl this year? :)
I hear ya!!!!!!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

johnnybravo8802
10-21-2012, 08:56 AM
I am a grasshopper and hustler dealer. I own a 2013 325d with 4x rear discharge deck, and a 725d5427 side discharge demo. I can honestly say from first hand experience with basically same mower and engine side by side. The rear discharge set up runs much less blade tip speed than the side discharge. You can tell the motor is turned down too. The rear discharge on the hopper manages grass much better as it has 3some regular 21" blades like normal, then a 4th blade turning the opposite direction mangling the clippings. Since i got my own rear setup and let people use, alot have switched over. Can say how nice it is to cut yards and not have dust grass and dirt all over me and the mower. My mower has 16 hours so far, and it still looks just like my new ones...
Posted via Mobile Device
Hey Retro, you still selling Badboy? I believe you on the blade tip speed. I ran a Hustler with a rear discharge about 3 yrs ago and noticed that it seemed to be running slower but I didn't really put much thought into it. It makes sense because the clippings don't have as far to travel, just like I mentioned before. I had to keep looking back to see if the mower was actually cutting the turf-I was used to seeing and feeling clippings come out the side. How does the cut on the rear grasshopper compare to the Hustler? Does the Hustler have that fourth blade also?

Realslowww
10-21-2012, 09:54 AM
My biggest thing is can you mow with a rear discharge at high speed and knock down in one pass.

retrodog
10-21-2012, 10:59 AM
You can mow full speed on a regular yard, but heavy growth and you need to slow down of course or double cut. Ok, its hard to explain, but the 4x leaves a strange stripe, it looks good just different than anything else. On the hustler only rear i cut with was a 72" and it was the older style deck. Ther rear on the hustler then was just 3 blades, i think hopper is the only one that does the 4 set-up. And actually, we finished the year as the largest volume bad boy dealer in the world, so yes i still sell them...lol. we only have a 3000 square ft store and one other full time employee besides me. I just really get in the field with these guys and demo alot with them. I am this small and have 11the demoes right now all but one is the field this weekend.
Posted via Mobile Device

kawasaki guy
10-21-2012, 02:23 PM
I want!! :laugh:

Ridin' Green
10-21-2012, 07:47 PM
Ridin Green-You asked for proof so I found it for you. Go to www.grasshoppermower.com and look under 4X rear discharge decks. It says it twice-"requires less HP." With the land pride brochure, they're referring to a finish mower versus a rotary, requiring more HP. Again, I'm talking from experience-I owned a New Holland TC30 with a Bushhog brand 60" rear discharge finish mower. I know exactly how they perform. A finish mower behind a tractor requires more HP over a rotary simply because it's pulling more RPM. You're welcomed to call a dealer and find out for yourself. Ask Puppy-he can tell you all about tractors.

No dude, read it again. Those two pages are solely on their finish mowers, not any of their rear rotary (or bush hog) mowers. Frontier says the same thing and so does Woods (no surprise since they make many of the Frontier mowers). So does/did Sitrex and several other manu's I have literature from. No need for me to ccall anyone or ask anyone either. I've been running various tractors for probably a lot longer than you've even been alive. I worked on a farm all my teenage years. I have quite a bit of hands on experience.

johnnybravo8802
10-21-2012, 08:24 PM
No dude, read it again. Those two pages are solely on their finish mowers, not any of their rear rotary (or bush hog) mowers. Frontier says the same thing and so does Woods (no surprise since they make many of the Frontier mowers). So does/did Sitrex and several other manu's I have literature from. No need for me to ccall anyone or ask anyone either. I've been running various tractors for probably a lot longer than you've even been alive. I worked on a farm all my teenage years. I have quite a bit of hands on experience.
Are we talking about mowers or tractor's man? I believe this thread is about a Hustler ZTR not a tractor. Read the article I gave you and lets move on. Nuff said.:walking:

Ridin' Green
10-21-2012, 08:39 PM
Are we talking about mowers or tractor's man? I believe this thread is about a Hustler ZTR not a tractor. Read the article I gave you and lets move on. Nuff said.:walking:

We're talking mower decks, whether they go on a tractor or a ZTR. Either way they are the same, and the rear requires more HP if everything is equal, as in BTS, ground speed, tires size, wheel pumps/motors- whatever you want to add to the list. Maybe you need to read it again or ask more questions from others that actually have hands on long term experience with several different deck designs and machines to run them.

Retro said the read discharge Grasshopper has lower BTS, which generally works an engine less, so less HP is required. Turn those same blades up to equal a side discharge deck and then you're gonna need more HP.

Is this really that hard to understand? I am starting to doubt from what you are posting that you have very much experience with either tractors, ZTR's or different type and designs of decks.

It appears that you have your mind made up simply because it seems that it should be the way you have been figuring it, and not based off reality/real world hands on experience.

Call Land Pride and tell them they have it all wrong.:rolleyes:

Yep, nuff said. have a good night bro.:)

johnnybravo8802
10-22-2012, 08:09 PM
We're talking mower decks, whether they go on a tractor or a ZTR. Either way they are the same, and the rear requires more HP if everything is equal, as in BTS, ground speed, tires size, wheel pumps/motors- whatever you want to add to the list. Maybe you need to read it again or ask more questions from others that actually have hands on long term experience with several different deck designs and machines to run them.

Retro said the read discharge Grasshopper has lower BTS, which generally works an engine less, so less HP is required. Turn those same blades up to equal a side discharge deck and then you're gonna need more HP.

Is this really that hard to understand? I am starting to doubt from what you are posting that you have very much experience with either tractors, ZTR's or different type and designs of decks.

It appears that you have your mind made up simply because it seems that it should be the way you have been figuring it, and not based off reality/real world hands on experience.

Call Land Pride and tell them they have it all wrong.:rolleyes:

Yep, nuff said. have a good night bro.:)
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:Yea, you certainly got me on that one...........Chuck. Now, if I can just find the men's section in this joint.;)

Ridin' Green
10-22-2012, 08:35 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:Yea, you certainly got me on that one...........Chuck. Now, if I can just find the men's section in this joint.;)

What the heck are you talking about now? I suppose that calling me "Chuck" is supposed to be some kind of redneck putdown or something. :rolleyes:

When you can't back up your argument with facts, resort to name calling.:hammerhead: Sounds like maybe you do need to grow up some bro.

johnnybravo8802
10-22-2012, 09:59 PM
What the heck are you talking about now? I suppose that calling me "Chuck" is supposed to be some kind of redneck putdown or something. :rolleyes:

When you can't back up your argument with facts, resort to name calling.:hammerhead: Sounds like maybe you do need to grow up some bro.
You know....Chuck.....Norris......You da man bro. Laying all jokes aside-If I'd known you couldn't read when I referred you to the grasshopper website, I'd just sent pictures.:laugh::laugh:You da man bro.........

Ridin' Green
10-22-2012, 11:06 PM
You know....Chuck.....Norris......You da man bro. Laying all jokes aside-If I'd known you couldn't read when I referred you to the grasshopper website, I'd just sent pictures.:laugh::laugh:You da man bro.........

Not sure exactly what Chuck Norris got to do with anything in this thread.:confused:

I can read alright bro, and I don't need pictures to understand the story, which you apparently do.

johnnybravo8802
10-23-2012, 06:48 AM
Not sure exactly what Chuck Norris got to do with anything in this thread.:confused:

I can read alright bro, and I don't need pictures to understand the story, which you apparently do.
It's actually "what Chuck Norris has to do with anything not got to do with anything." You're into martial arts, according to your profile, aren't you? A little slow on the uptake Chucky boy..........:nono:

Patriot Services
10-23-2012, 10:39 AM
And this thread veers straight into the Bucklebrush.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
10-23-2012, 04:05 PM
It's actually "what Chuck Norris has to do with anything not got to do with anything." You're into martial arts, according to your profile, aren't you? A little slow on the uptake Chucky boy..........:nono:

No genius, I got it. I just wanted to see you come on out and say it instead of implying it like a weasel. BTW, calling me Chuck(y) isn't really a put down.:nono:

So far, acting like a tool is about all you've done here. I guess that's all that's left to do when you're wrong. It's been fun rattling your chain, but Patriot is right- this thread has gotten far enough off course .:waving:

Realslowww
10-23-2012, 05:30 PM
It doesn't look like anybody is placing a order?

johnnybravo8802
10-23-2012, 07:25 PM
No genius, I got it. I just wanted to see you come on out and say it instead of implying it like a weasel. BTW, calling me Chuck(y) isn't really a put down.:nono:

So far, acting like a tool is about all you've done here. I guess that's all that's left to do when you're wrong. It's been fun rattling your chain, but Patriot is right- this thread has gotten far enough off course .:waving:
You know, the thing I don't understand here is, you asked for proof and I found an article that specifically states that a ZTR(not a finish mower) with a rear discharge deck requires less HP than a side discharge. You are the only one I've ever heard say anything different. Everybody who comes on here has heard what I've stated, not your statement. Every dealer and mechanic this side of the Mississippi will tell you the same thing. So......you're telling me that you are right and everyone else in the industry is wrong? Don't down me for going by what everyone in the industry agrees on and even grasshoppers website states.

Realslowww
10-23-2012, 07:51 PM
I tried a 72 reardis with a 27 Kohler and it was not enough and then tried a 74 Dixie side shooter with a 32 generac and it was awsome for cutting thick grass..

gcbailey
10-23-2012, 08:13 PM
didn't read through all 13 pages to see if this was posted or not...

http://www.rurallifestyledealer.com/pages/Feature-Hustler-Introduces-13-Line-Up,-Including-Raptor-Priced-at-Under-$3,000.php

hustlermidwest
10-23-2012, 10:07 PM
I skipped by some of the threads but I don't know how the 104 got to Chuck Norris. I see a lot of talk on hp draw of the rear discharge vs the side discharge. It being the political season I'll make everybody happy and say you are all right. Horsepower draw is more than what type of deck you have. Does a 72" side discharge draw more ponies than a rear discharge, the answer is maybe. How the blades are driven, do all the blades run the same direction, how may belts, Gear box, blade tip speed, in what conditions? Many more questions still unanswered. I would suggest focusing the question on similar decks sizes made by the same vendor and driven in the same manner. If I had a new Super Z HD 60" and a new Super Z HD 60"RD the RD unit will draw less HP to operate. The difference in draw will increase as the conditions worsen.
Will the Hustler 60" side discharge draw more power than another product RD platform nobody knows for sure with out testing torque of both units at the blades. Are there RD units that drawn more HP than a side discharge, I'm sure there are.

Brian O

lawnman4
10-23-2012, 10:11 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:Yea, you certainly got me on that one...........Chuck. Now, if I can just find the men's section in this joint.;)

You are all that and a bag of chips
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
10-24-2012, 10:39 AM
I skipped by some of the threads but I don't know how the 104 got to Chuck Norris. I see a lot of talk on hp draw of the rear discharge vs the side discharge. It being the political season I'll make everybody happy and say you are all right. Horsepower draw is more than what type of deck you have. Does a 72" side discharge draw more ponies than a rear discharge, the answer is maybe. How the blades are driven, do all the blades run the same direction, how may belts, Gear box, blade tip speed, in what conditions? Many more questions still unanswered. I would suggest focusing the question on similar decks sizes made by the same vendor and driven in the same manner. If I had a new Super Z HD 60" and a new Super Z HD 60"RD the RD unit will draw less HP to operate. The difference in draw will increase as the conditions worsen.
Will the Hustler 60" side discharge draw more power than another product RD platform nobody knows for sure with out testing torque of both units at the blades. Are there RD units that drawn more HP than a side discharge, I'm sure there are.

Brian O

The statement in blue of course has the most influence on hp drag, but the statement in red is what should be considered the most accurate way of defining an answer to this question...kind of like that old saying, "you've got to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges."

johnnybravo8802
10-24-2012, 09:18 PM
The statement in blue of course has the most influence on hp drag, but the statement in red is what should be considered the most accurate way of defining an answer to this question...kind of like that old saying, "you've got to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges."
You know puppy, as much as I hate to admit this, and I really hate to admit this:cry:, you're right.:confused:

puppypaws
10-25-2012, 02:21 PM
You know puppy, as much as I hate to admit this, and I really hate to admit this:cry:, you're right.:confused:


If you live long enough the pendulum will eventually swing the ability to be right in your direction, just keep hanging on...;)

TLS
10-25-2012, 04:32 PM
Looks decent.

But for the price point ($28K???) I think they will be collecting dust.

I cant see another $14K above a SuperZ

Plus....STILL 12 gallon tanks???

STILL 13" front casters???

johnnybravo8802
10-25-2012, 05:34 PM
If you live long enough the pendulum will eventually swing the ability to be right in your direction, just keep hanging on...;)
Real funny puppy, real funny!!!:rolleyes:You have to remember, you have over 20 yrs. on me. I have a ways to go before I can be right about everything....:laugh::laugh:

puppypaws
10-25-2012, 06:33 PM
Real funny puppy, real funny!!!:rolleyes:You have to remember, you have over 20 yrs. on me. I have a ways to go before I can be right about everything....:laugh::laugh:

There is no doubt, if you live another 20 yrs, you...will learn a great deal. I learn something about every day, I'm just getting to the point of having a hard time remembering what is was I supposedly learned.

johnnybravo8802
10-25-2012, 06:48 PM
There is no doubt, if you live another 20 yrs, you...will learn a great deal. I learn something about every day, I'm just getting to the point of having a hard time remembering what is was I supposedly learned.
I must have blossomed early:rolleyes:because I'm already there on that one.:cry:I'd love to try out this Hustler 104. You seem to be a master at getting demo's-you need to try this thing out and give us a review. I'd love to see how it does. I've been following Hustler since 98' and have always believed in their product. The biggest downfall with this machine as far as I can see is their price. I bought a 3200 in 02',which was their flagship industrial mower, and it only cost $20,000, with a quadcycler deck.

hustlermidwest
10-25-2012, 07:12 PM
Jonnybravo,
We can make that demo happen. Right now they are playing at GIE/EXPO. Once the dust settles and production catch's up with demand we can get a demo out to a play-yard in your area that is large enough to handle the 104. The 104 is not for everyone but there are pretty many markets for it.

Brian O

Sprinkler Buddy
10-25-2012, 07:16 PM
I have looked at this Hustler I don't know how many times now. lol It's Insane!

It would be ideal for paddock mowing around me.

johnnybravo8802
10-25-2012, 07:41 PM
Jonnybravo,
We can make that demo happen. Right now they are playing at GIE/EXPO. Once the dust settles and production catch's up with demand we can get a demo out to a play-yard in your area that is large enough to handle the 104. The 104 is not for everyone but there are pretty many markets for it.

Brian O
Man, you shouldn't have told me that!!!:clapping::clapping::clapping::dancing::dancing::dancing:I may have to take you up on that one.

hustlermidwest
10-25-2012, 07:48 PM
Just make it in the dead of winter, would love to leave Chicago and enjoy the sunshine of Georgia!!

StanWilhite
10-25-2012, 08:35 PM
There is no doubt, if you live another 20 yrs, you...will learn a great deal. I learn something about every day, I'm just getting to the point of having a hard time remembering what is was I supposedly learned.

:laugh: I agree 100% ! There's one thing about me that is getting noticably better with age......my "forgetter" !

puppypaws
10-25-2012, 08:39 PM
Just make it in the dead of winter, would love to leave Chicago and enjoy the sunshine of Georgia!!

I can definitely understand that...I was once told if someone died and went to H*ll after living in Chicago; the Devil would take a day off for each spent residing in the "Windy City."

4 seasons lawn&land
10-25-2012, 08:40 PM
okay so whyd they skip over 2 deck sizes on their way to 104? 84 would be nice.

Chilehead
10-25-2012, 09:02 PM
I'd rather go with these guys: http://www.lastec.com/lastec2/

KV9064
11-04-2012, 01:54 PM
Hustler's website in updated for 2013

KV9064
11-04-2012, 01:56 PM
I'd rather go with these guys: http://www.lastec.com/lastec2/

They look really nice untill you see the prices WOW

Monroe74
11-11-2012, 09:28 PM
Looks like a four year old Lastec design I saw at the GIE expo 20-24k no thanks

MONTE
11-27-2012, 02:18 PM
Any pics of the underneath side of the mower deck?

Realslowww
11-27-2012, 06:19 PM
A couple 36 or 48 inch pull behinds on a 72 would be much more productive.

You could build a 36 or 40 inch pull behind in the 300 to 350 pound range with a 72 and it would stomp that mower bad. To me the machine is really a novelty item.

WREBELMACHINE
12-01-2012, 09:38 AM
I would love to see one of these in person. I do not like the idea of a kawasaki engine running the thing. But I do have a good 4 days of mowing that this machine could sit on and work.

hustlermidwest
12-01-2012, 09:56 AM
That's no problem! Southwest MO, you are in our back yard. US54 to Wichita turn right. I would have no trouble getting a demo set up for you on your grounds.
Please respond to me on my Hustler email and we can get the ball rolling whenever you like.

Brian O
hustlermidwest@aol.com

Tinkerer
12-01-2012, 02:45 PM
Its gonna take a crane to load that on a trailer.

hustlermidwest
12-01-2012, 04:52 PM
If I drive fast enough I can go through any opening and up any trailer!!
Accually, with the wings up it loads very nicely on many standard trailers.(72.5" at deck base)
You just need the area to justify it's cutting volume.

Brian O

grassman177
12-01-2012, 10:49 PM
The 4120 makes a great deal more sense to most, and by far more usable, but there are people and institutions with money (not necessarily their own) that will buy the 104, but I don't see it being a really good seller.

If you think the 104 is priced high, this 16.5' cut Toro 5900; of which I checked the price day before yesterday is, ARE YOU READY... $90,000.00, and the area rep told me this was not their best seller, he said their best seller was the 4100 with the 10.5' cut, he tried to make me believe this was a much better bargain at $70,000.00.

When you add the cab to this 5900 is goes to 105K...When he quoted these prices I was shocked to say the least.

http://media.toro.com/PublishingImages/ProductCatalog440X510/Groundsmaster-5900GM5900_31598.jpg

our city has some of these mowers right here, both models actually, and they are sweeeeet

a clear difference lawn
12-02-2012, 06:52 AM
I rarely post on this site anymore, however, I thought I would chime in. I think there sometimes seems to be confusion between productivity and profitability. I read this thread and heard a lot of "buy 2 72's ot three sixty inch super z's" etc etc. In my opinion, what is being forgotten here is that you have to pay someone to operate these mowers. Around here, its going to cost you $100 a day per employee for someone decent. If you buy 3 super z mowers, that is $300 a day - every day work - extra you are paying to get the grass mowed. That alone is $8000 a month. Plus you have the extra maintenance of 2 more mowers. Another guy suggested pulling mowers. That ruins all the agility you but a z for in the first place. I definitely see an application for this mower in Florida where the land is flat. An lco with one good worker, this mower and a walkbehind (and obviously handhelds) could handle small to medium (maybe even large) hoa communities and make good money. As far as the rear discharge debate that seems to be raging, why not just mulch with this mower - it has an available kit. All the big companies around here are mulching now. You would have to slow down a little, but with a 104" cut you could still blow through some serious grass. This mower, in my opinion, needs to be used on grass that is maintained regularly. Large, upscale communities, I think, would perfectly suit it.

puppypaws
12-02-2012, 07:56 AM
I rarely post on this site anymore, however, I thought I would chime in. I think there sometimes seems to be confusion between productivity and profitability. I read this thread and heard a lot of "buy 2 72's ot three sixty inch super z's" etc etc. In my opinion, what is being forgotten here is that you have to pay someone to operate these mowers. Around here, its going to cost you $100 a day per employee for someone decent. If you buy 3 super z mowers, that is $300 a day - every day work - extra you are paying to get the grass mowed. That alone is $8000 a month. Plus you have the extra maintenance of 2 more mowers. Another guy suggested pulling mowers. That ruins all the agility you but a z for in the first place. I definitely see an application for this mower in Florida where the land is flat. An lco with one good worker, this mower and a walkbehind (and obviously handhelds) could handle small to medium (maybe even large) hoa communities and make good money. As far as the rear discharge debate that seems to be raging, why not just mulch with this mower - it has an available kit. All the big companies around here are mulching now. You would have to slow down a little, but with a 104" cut you could still blow through some serious grass. This mower, in my opinion, needs to be used on grass that is maintained regularly. Large, upscale communities, I think, would perfectly suit it.

Large flat areas where speed can be utilized at 80% efficiency (20% loss due to turn around time) a mower such as this "104" which has an 8.67' cut while traveling at its top rated speed of 11 mph will cut 9.25 acres per hr., whereas the new Super Z HyperDrive cutting at a width of 6', but running a top speed of 16 mph (and yes it will cut grass at that speed) will cut 9.31 acres per hr.

This tells you that one 72" Super Z (due to speed) is capable of cutting as much as this 104" mower. Most people do not realize speed makes this type difference. The 72" Super Z is also much more maneuverable than the 104", which also add additional productivity to the equation.

a clear difference lawn
12-02-2012, 08:26 AM
Large flat areas where speed can be utilized at 80% efficiency (20% loss due to turn around time) a mower such as this "104" which has an 8.67' cut while traveling at its top rated speed of 11 mph will cut 9.25 acres per hr., whereas the new Super Z HyperDrive cutting at a width of 6', but running a top speed of 16 mph (and yes it will cut grass at that speed) will cut 9.31 acres per hr.

This tells you that one 72" Super Z (due to speed) is capable of cutting as much as this 104" mower. Most people do not realize speed makes this type difference. The 72" Super Z is also much more maneuverable than the 104", which also add additional productivity to the equation.

Funny how I got blasted on this site a year ago for saying I could cut dry grass at 11 mph and now the guru says that a hustler will cut at 16 mph! I get it that you are the "know all" genius on this site but i am going to have to call you on that one. No way is a 72" going to cut grass around here in the dead of summer at 16mph. I hope all the Florida guys back me up on this. Quite frankly, I rarely see anyone cutting thick St. Augustine at over 10mph around here and we want to get done just as much as evryone else in the country. It is just too much grass to handle at that speed - and still look good. When the bahia gets thick - it is even worse. I said in my original post that if you mulch you would have to slow down anyway. There are a lot of really open communities around here were I think this mower could work well. Obviously a 72" would do the job too. But remember - if you are cutting grass at 40mph you must be side dischrging so you will have a lot more blowing to do vs mulching.

WREBELMACHINE
12-02-2012, 10:44 AM
I and a few others in my area could use this machine. I am just concerned about the use of a kawasaki engine running the thing.

TLS
12-02-2012, 10:50 AM
They do offer a big Kohler as well IIRC.

Not that this matters, but I think your thinking that a big diesel is something this size mower needs.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
12-02-2012, 12:09 PM
Funny how I got blasted on this site a year ago for saying I could cut dry grass at 11 mph and now the guru says that a hustler will cut at 16 mph! I get it that you are the "know all" genius on this site but i am going to have to call you on that one. No way is a 72" going to cut grass around here in the dead of summer at 16mph. I hope all the Florida guys back me up on this. Quite frankly, I rarely see anyone cutting thick St. Augustine at over 10mph around here and we want to get done just as much as evryone else in the country. It is just too much grass to handle at that speed - and still look good. When the bahia gets thick - it is even worse. I said in my original post that if you mulch you would have to slow down anyway. There are a lot of really open communities around here were I think this mower could work well. Obviously a 72" would do the job too. But remember - if you are cutting grass at 40mph you must be side dischrging so you will have a lot more blowing to do vs mulching.


What I gave was only an example and is all relative, if you need to slow down a certain percentage to do a satisfactory job with a 72" deck, you must also slow down (possibly more) to do an equal job with a 104" deck. There is not enough hp offered with the 104 to keep it at full rpm while mowing grass with any moisture or thickness, much less mulch with any speed relative to productivity. To mulch with an 8.67" deck and do a reasonable job, you will need a 45+ hp engine, you need a strong 40+ hp to side discharge and maintain relative rpm's.

Toro calculates 5.5 to 6 diesel hp per foot of deck width on their wide area mowers.

I run a 35 hp Kawasaki on a 72" Super Z, and believe me it needs every hp in average cutting. So for a person to believe Hustler is offering enough engine hp to adequately pull a deck that is over 2.5' wider is ridiculous.

The 38 hp Kohler is no stronger than the 35 Kawasaki, it is relative to each companies standard of hp rating, and Kawasaki's rating method is much more accurate than that of Kohler's.

Realslowww
12-02-2012, 06:34 PM
Funny how I got blasted on this site a year ago for saying I could cut dry grass at 11 mph and now the guru says that a hustler will cut at 16 mph! I get it that you are the "know all" genius on this site but i am going to have to call you on that one. No way is a 72" going to cut grass around here in the dead of summer at 16mph. I hope all the Florida guys back me up on this. Quite frankly, I rarely see anyone cutting thick St. Augustine at over 10mph around here and we want to get done just as much as evryone else in the country. It is just too much grass to handle at that speed - and still look good. When the bahia gets thick - it is even worse. I said in my original post that if you mulch you would have to slow down anyway. There are a lot of really open communities around here were I think this mower could work well. Obviously a 72" would do the job too. But remember - if you are cutting grass at 40mph you must be side dischrging so you will have a lot more blowing to do vs mulching.

The area I am in in northern FL you can mow at 15 with a Super, Services doing big areas are finding out 2 Super's 72 models can be much more cost effective and faster than their 15FT Bat Wing setup's.

If you just are mowing to knock down and the grass is not to thick 15 is no problem but in southern FL no way,northern FL is way easier.

Realslowww
12-02-2012, 06:38 PM
What I gave was only an example and is all relative, if you need to slow down a certain percentage to do a satisfactory job with a 72" deck, you must also slow down (possibly more) to do an equal job with a 104" deck. There is not enough hp offered with the 104 to keep it at full rpm while mowing grass with any moisture or thickness, much less mulch with any speed relative to productivity. To mulch with an 8.67" deck and do a reasonable job, you will need a 45+ hp engine, you need a strong 40+ hp to side discharge and maintain relative rpm's.

Toro calculates 5.5 to 6 diesel hp per foot of deck width on their wide area mowers.

I run a 35 hp Kawasaki on a 72" Super Z, and believe me it needs every hp in average cutting. So for a person to believe Hustler is offering enough engine hp to adequately pull a deck that is over 2.5' wider is ridiculous.

The 38 hp Kohler is no stronger than the 35 Kawasaki, it is relative to each companies standard of hp rating, and Kawasaki's rating method is much more accurate than that of Kohler's so mounting it on the older Super should be a good fit.

The high compression Generac is supposed to be 10 percent more powerful than a 37 Kaw and it is about the same compact size as a 30 HP Kohler.

Realslowww
12-02-2012, 06:39 PM
What I gave was only an example and is all relative, if you need to slow down a certain percentage to do a satisfactory job with a 72" deck, you must also slow down (possibly more) to do an equal job with a 104" deck. There is not enough hp offered with the 104 to keep it at full rpm while mowing grass with any moisture or thickness, much less mulch with any speed relative to productivity. To mulch with an 8.67" deck and do a reasonable job, you will need a 45+ hp engine, you need a strong 40+ hp to side discharge and maintain relative rpm's.

Toro calculates 5.5 to 6 diesel hp per foot of deck width on their wide area mowers.

I run a 35 hp Kawasaki on a 72" Super Z, and believe me it needs every hp in average cutting. So for a person to believe Hustler is offering enough engine hp to adequately pull a deck that is over 2.5' wider is ridiculous.

The 38 hp Kohler is no stronger than the 35 Kawasaki, it is relative to each companies standard of hp rating, and Kawasaki's rating method is much more accurate than that of Kohler's.

The high compression Generac is supposed to be 10 percent more powerful than a 37 Kaw and it is about the same compact size as a 30 HP Kohler so it should fit nice on the older Super.

puppypaws
12-02-2012, 09:46 PM
The high compression Generac is supposed to be 10 percent more powerful than a 37 Kaw and it is about the same compact size as a 30 HP Kohler so it should fit nice on the older Super.

I've run both and the Generac because of reacting more quickly to changing conditions due to the responsiveness of its E-Governor, definitely feels more powerful. I put a mower with a Cat 28 hp diesel in tall thick grass, beside a 33 hp Generac powered mower, and the Cat diesel in comparison performed like a 20 hp engine. You could stall the Cat, where the Generac never changed sounds, I honestly could not believe the difference, and I was watching both perform.

Realslowww
12-03-2012, 08:34 AM
I've run both and the Generac because of reacting more quickly to changing conditions due to the responsiveness of its E-Governor, definitely feels more powerful. I put a mower with a Cat 28 hp diesel in tall thick grass, beside a 33 hp Generac powered mower, and the Cat diesel in comparison performed like a 20 hp engine. You could stall the Cat, where the Generac never changed sounds, I honestly could not believe the difference, and I was watching both perform. The problem with the Gen is no EFI but I hear they are testing it. The High Compression model is supposed to be 10% more powerful than the standard version but you have to run 93. They claim it makes more HP through added torque and not RPM so that is great.

I hear the 28 Cat is a turd.

Richard Martin
12-28-2012, 08:20 PM
Didn't he sell the rights to Dixi Chopper..........They were advertizing his combination at one time.

Dixie had (past tense) the rights to build their own version. It was much more robust than the one that Brad sold. They may still have the rights but I haven't seen a Flex-Deck mounted to any Dixie except the one they used to demo with.

johnnybravo8802
12-28-2012, 11:17 PM
Large flat areas where speed can be utilized at 80% efficiency (20% loss due to turn around time) a mower such as this "104" which has an 8.67' cut while traveling at its top rated speed of 11 mph will cut 9.25 acres per hr., whereas the new Super Z HyperDrive cutting at a width of 6', but running a top speed of 16 mph (and yes it will cut grass at that speed) will cut 9.31 acres per hr.

This tells you that one 72" Super Z (due to speed) is capable of cutting as much as this 104" mower. Most people do not realize speed makes this type difference. The 72" Super Z is also much more maneuverable than the 104", which also add additional productivity to the equation.
I have to agree with you on this one Puppy...from first hand experience. I mow a 30 acre industrial plant with some really wide open areas but also has areas by the retention ponds with rows of trees. We tried out a Lastec 100' mower in 08', thinking one man on a big mower vs 3 men on 72"s and found out that a WAM can only be utilized if their are very few objects to mow around. The problem is, where do you have areas like that....not in the real world. The extra size of a WAM and slower speed makes these mowers slugs when it comes to maneuvering. My Scag 61" ran circles around the 100"-in fact, the rep was so embarrassed, he accused me of turning up my mower:laugh:. I also agree with the extra speed of the Hustler. I rented a Hustler Super Z a few times and it ran circles around my TT, on this same property. The extra speed makes a big difference when you have acres and acres of grass to mow. The key is to keep the blades sharp. The speed makes such a difference, I'd really consider a Hustler in the future. I even ran a cheetah and didn't find it near as fast or responsive as the Hustler. The speed, optional suspension seat, and flex forks make the Hustler untouchable in my opinion.

puppypaws
12-29-2012, 07:41 AM
I have to agree with you on this one Puppy...from first hand experience. I mow a 30 acre industrial plant with some really wide open areas but also has areas by the retention ponds with rows of trees. We tried out a Lastec 100' mower in 08', thinking one man on a big mower vs 3 men on 72"s and found out that a WAM can only be utilized if their are very few objects to mow around. The problem is, where do you have areas like that....not in the real world. The extra size of a WAM and slower speed makes these mowers slugs when it comes to maneuvering. My Scag 61" ran circles around the 100"-in fact, the rep was so embarrassed, he accused me of turning up my mower:laugh:. I also agree with the extra speed of the Hustler. I rented a Hustler Super Z a few times and it ran circles around my TT, on this same property. The extra speed makes a big difference when you have acres and acres of grass to mow. The key is to keep the blades sharp. The speed makes such a difference, I'd really consider a Hustler in the future. I even ran a cheetah and didn't find it near as fast or responsive as the Hustler. The speed, optional suspension seat, and flex forks make the Hustler untouchable in my opinion.

The new 72" Super Z I bought; of which I had flex forks installed before it was delivered rides a little better than my old Super Z with flex forks and the flex seat base added to the suspension seat. The difference is the wheel base being longer and just enough additional weight to help the flex forks react a little easier.

This is also with the flat-free tires on the bigger machine, which as we both know; tires with low air pressure absorbs a great deal of shock. I honestly thought the flat-free tires would give me a ride problem, but the only thing I've noticed is when it sits overnight there is a flat spot that must be rolled out. These flat spots move out of the tires amazingly fast compared to what I would have thought, meaning it has not been a concern so far.

I've had some argument (from one) that the additional weight should make the ride more rough, and this is not true, the additional weight removes many of the smaller jolts associated with slightly rough terrain. I tried to explain to him there was terrain you could cross on a D-9 Caterpillar and never feel any roughness due to its weight, but if you crossed the same area with a lower weight rubber tire machine it may beat you to death. I don't think he ever believed what I was trying to get across, but that's what makes the world go round, different people, with different opinions.

Mowingman
12-29-2012, 08:43 AM
I kind of wonder about why Hustler is making this type of mower again in the first place. Years ago, Hustler reinvented themselves by canning the whole line of mowers they had with these big decks, and coming out with a new series midmounts. Now, they are back to trying to build these wing-type mowers.
I guess they did not learn their lesson the first time around. Hustler already has way too many models. Why bring out a mower that wil have very limited demand, and one where JD and Toro already "own" the market?
Someone at Hustler is on an ego trip. Reminds me of some of the foolish and costly mistakes Dixie Chopper has made over the years.

johnnybravo8802
12-29-2012, 08:45 AM
The new 72" Super Z I bought; of which I had flex forks installed before it was delivered rides a little better than my old Super Z with flex forks and the flex seat base added to the suspension seat. The difference is the wheel base being longer and just enough additional weight to help the flex forks react a little easier.

This is also with the flat-free tires on the bigger machine, which as we both know; tires with low air pressure absorbs a great deal of shock. I honestly thought the flat-free tires would give me a ride problem, but the only thing I've noticed is when it sits overnight there is a flat spot that must be rolled out. These flat spots move out of the tires amazingly fast compared to what I would have thought, meaning it has not been a concern so far.

I've had some argument (from one) that the additional weight should make the ride more rough, and this is not true, the additional weight removes many of the smaller jolts associated with slightly rough terrain. I tried to explain to him there was terrain you could cross on a D-9 Caterpillar and never feel any roughness due to its weight, but if you crossed the same area with a lower weight rubber tire machine it may beat you to death. I don't think he ever believed what I was trying to get across, but that's what makes the world go round, different people, with different opinions.
I had flat free tires on my TT and they were great. I'll tell you one thing though, before the flat free tires, I had my tires on an Exmark filled with foam and they rode terrible-no flats but a drastic trade off. I almost took them back off. The weight thing is like driving a big truck-the more weight, the better the ride.

puppypaws
12-29-2012, 09:11 AM
I had flat free tires on my TT and they were great. I'll tell you one thing though, before the flat free tires, I had my tires on an Exmark filled with foam and they rode terrible-no flats but a drastic trade off. I almost took them back off. The weight thing is like driving a big truck-the more weight, the better the ride.

You need to explain the weight thing to "Realslowww," for some reason he has a hard time getting a grip on this.

The tires on my mower are manufactured under the name of OTR, below is what their claim is.

The OTR Semi Pneumatic tire's main design features are:

Improved Semi Pneumatic design. Benefit: heavy duty flat proof tire that performs like a pneumatic tire.

Locked Tire design. Benefit: when mounted on a wheel creates a true one piece wheel assembly.

Smooth tread design. Benefit: stays clean and creates minimal turf disturbance.

Enhanced rubber technology in design. Benefit: reduces shock and lowers vibration during operation.

johnnybravo8802
12-29-2012, 09:36 AM
I kind of wonder about why Hustler is making this type of mower again in the first place. Years ago, Hustler reinvented themselves by canning the whole line of mowers they had with these big decks, and coming out with a new series midmounts. Now, they are back to trying to build these wing-type mowers.
I guess they did not learn their lesson the first time around. Hustler already has way too many models. Why bring out a mower that wil have very limited demand, and one where JD and Toro already "own" the market?
Someone at Hustler is on an ego trip. Reminds me of some of the foolish and costly mistakes Dixie Chopper has made over the years.
I agree 100% on that one. It appears that they D/C'd the range wing and have made an ill attempt to replace it. The thing is, the range wing was an industrial unit with a 38HP Kubota diesel and made to handle day in and day out mowing. The odd thing is that the price point wasn't much different than this 104". This mower is nothing more than a Super Z with wings and a price that's way out of line. It's a beautiful mower but I don't see them selling many...that's my prediction. I also agree with Hustler reinventing the wheel and having too many machines. I will say that they are the most proactive company I've ever seen but they have been all over the map with their product line since I started with them in 98'.

puppypaws
12-29-2012, 10:12 AM
I agree 100% on that one. It appears that they D/C'd the range wing and have made an ill attempt to replace it. The thing is, the range wing was an industrial unit with a 38HP Kubota diesel and made to handle day in and day out mowing. The odd thing is that the price point wasn't much different than this 104". This mower is nothing more than a Super Z with wings and a price that's way out of line. It's a beautiful mower but I don't see them selling many...that's my prediction. I also agree with Hustler reinventing the wheel and having too many machines. I will say that they are the most proactive company I've ever seen but they have been all over the map with their product line since I started with them in 98'.

The 104 will never be a big seller, and I look for them to pull it from their lineup rather quickly, either that or make significant changes, with engines being the most needed change. There will be a few sold to people that want to spend money, and look to others as if having the biggest and baddest Super Z made. Then there will be a few buying them to try on large open area cutting such as a sports complex. I can promise if anyone attempts to cut damp or slightly (not greatly) overgrown grass, they will find out immediately the 104 is extremely weak.

StanWilhite
04-11-2013, 03:51 AM
I just tripped up on this video of a Hustler salesman showing the Hustler 104 and commenting on the HP required to operate the rear discharge setup on the mower.

While watching the video I remembered this discussion here on LS about whether a rear discharge deck required more, or less, HP to operate than a side discharge deck.

Don't mean to stir the pot, but I thought it was interesting that reps of different companies seem to have a difference of opinion when it comes to this topic. This salesman says the RD deck takes less hp to operate, but like Ridin' Green, I've also seen/heard reps state the opposite.

(The statement he makes about the hp required to run the RD deck is at 1 minute.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPYRLzHyro8

Snyder's Lawn Inc
04-11-2013, 04:17 AM
Reminds me of some of the foolish and costly mistakes Dixie Chopper has made over the years.What mistakes you talking about Do tell

Mickhippy
04-11-2013, 04:35 AM
I just tripped up on this video of a Hustler salesman showing the Hustler 104 and commenting on the HP required to operate the rear discharge setup on the mower.

Good find mate! Love to see a vid of it actually mowing though.
Be good if it could lift the "wings" individually!
I dont think the 35hp would be enough to run it over here unless it never rained again.
RD needs less HP. Its not trying to throw all 108" worth through a 15" or what ever hole. Hell, cant even throw 60"! Sorry, had to be said!:weightlifter:
The scalp wheels on the rear edge of the "wing" arent pivoting like a caster.
What happens if or WHEN the "wings" get folded while the blades are still engaged? Its a rhetorical question!
Great hydro system though.............

puppypaws
04-11-2013, 07:35 AM
Good find mate! Love to see a vid of it actually mowing though.
Be good if it could lift the "wings" individually!
I dont think the 35hp would be enough to run it over here unless it never rained again.
RD needs less HP. Its not trying to throw all 108" worth through a 15" or what ever hole. Hell, cant even throw 60"! Sorry, had to be said!:weightlifter:
The scalp wheels on the rear edge of the "wing" arent pivoting like a caster.
What happens if or WHEN the "wings" get folded while the blades are still engaged? Its a rhetorical question!
Great hydro system though.............

That's a very good point, you've seen times in your area where the full 35 hp was needed on your 60" deck. I understand having a larger discharge opening as with a rear discharge deck should ease hp requirements somewhat, but when thinking about adding 2.66' more cutting width to that 35 hp, it's hard for me to believe it can handle it properly in all cutting scenarios.

There could be a safety switch integrated to stop the deck immediately if the wing raise switch was activated, hopefully, there is something in place.

ztman
04-11-2013, 07:46 AM
Don't mean to stir the pot, but I thought it was interesting that reps of different companies seem to have a difference of opinion when it comes to this topic. This salesman says the RD deck takes less hp to operate, but like Ridin' Green, I've also seen/heard reps state the opposite.

(The statement he makes about the hp required to run the RD deck is at 1 minute.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPYRLzHyro8


Nice video. I think the salesman chose his words carefully. He said it didnt require the hp of a side discharge. He didnt said the rear discharge requires less.

Turning tall grass short
04-11-2013, 08:26 AM
I've been told the wings can flex 15 degrees up or down for hillsides and slopes. There's a slot in the lifting arm allowing that. When the clutch is on you can't raise the wing. 179 post and there are still questions. I don't require something this big but I still drove it and it was sweet. The machine is out, hasn't anybody mowed with it yet? It's still in the 30 up here and lots of rain but no mowing yet.

TTGS

Tinkerer
04-11-2013, 11:19 AM
And for $26,500 it doesn't make sense to me. I bet it weighs around 2,000 pounds. At least you won't see 12 year old kids mowing neighbors lawns with it.

Ridin' Green
04-11-2013, 01:50 PM
That's interesting Stan, good find.

A couple points come to my mind right off though-

1- the guy is trying to sell their machine with the engine they have on it so yea, he is going to say it requires less HP. I suspect that they would have had to do some major redesigning to use a different type engine or one of more HP, so they are using the biggest one they have on hand from the company they do volume buys from.

2- Woods and Land Pride have been making rear discharge decks in this size category a lot longer than Hustler, and they have always claimed that a rear discharge deck requires more HP. They made a point of it in their literature and ads so that a person didn't buy a mower too large for their tractor's PTO output.

Yes, the rear of the rear discharge deck is wide open, but the entire volume of material is constantly wrapped up in all the blades from front to rear, not just across the front air flow area like a side discharge.


Regardless of all that, the thing is interesting to look at, but I seriously doubt they'll sell that many of them considering the price.

mtmower
05-11-2013, 11:33 AM
from what I hear it requires way less power to run a rear discharge.

X2. I ran one for a short time at a dealer on grasses that were and easy 6-8" and thick. Rear discharge uses way less hp to run. I could feel it and hear it immediately. Cuts more like a sickle bar mower. Drops pretty much full size clippings. I wouldn't be surprised if the hp offered is doable. Of course as long as you have plenty of gas there no such thing as too much hp!

Realslowww
05-11-2013, 02:33 PM
X2. I ran one for a short time at a dealer on grasses that were and easy 6-8" and thick. Rear discharge uses way less hp to run. I could feel it and hear it immediately. Cuts more like a sickle bar mower. Drops pretty much full size clippings. I wouldn't be surprised if the hp offered is doable. Of course as long as you have plenty of gas there no such thing as too much hp!

Half the power consumption is pushing it across the deck and getting it out the side shoot. A rear discharge just drops it.

Swank1975
09-10-2013, 11:10 PM
Last week I had the opportunity to demo one of these machines for a couple of hours. We mowed an elementary school site and a high school.

The elementary had a considerable hill that we were able to test the slope hold and control of two different hustler mowers on. They hold well but like most machines you wouldn't want to touch those hills when wet.

The high school is a pretty large campus and I was on the 104. The grass was around 6" and was cut at 3.5" One of my employees was on our year old Toro 5900 WAM and we mowed the entire site in 30 minutes including the baseball field, softball field, soccer field, and lawn surrounding the school. I have to say I was very impressed with it's maneuvering and cut speed (especially in the trees). The finish is also as good as our current side and rear discharge machines. There would have been less trimming after the 104 vs our front deck Deere 72" machines due to the added agility which also saves labor. When dealing with government pricing it is nowhere near the MSRP on the Hustler or the Toro 5900.

One major factor I have to consider with my crews is that a seasonal mower operator for 6 months costs me approximately $12,000 each. It is even worse when I have to fill a vacancy due to seasonal worker attrition and I'm forced to have a full time tech cover the route. In some situations schools and universities just don't have the option of staffing up when you start to include the costs of benefits and having to employee staff who are insurable and can pass background checks to be around kids. A handful of day laborers with questionable backgrounds won't cut it. If I go with smaller mowers that only cost $10k I still need an additional operator or more depending on which machine it replaces. I currently run 9 mow routes for 160 sites (one machine per route). The big mowers save us money for sure. We have had Jacobson 16' WAMs and 72" front deck machines, The Toro 5900 16', Deere 11' WAMs, Deere 72" front deck mowers, Deere Ztrack mowers, Exmark Lazer, and some other machines over time.

We are still shopping around but the 104" Hustler has some very appealing features. Tomorrow (weather permitting) we are going to demo some other Exmark machines. Scag will also be checked out before we spec some new machines.

I know there are some old stereotypes and perceptions about "government workers" but coming from the private world for most of my career I can say things are very tight on the education side and they will always cut support department budgets before they will cut the classroom budget. I cannot speak for the University side.

Sprinkler Buddy
09-10-2013, 11:21 PM
This is just Awesome, every time I see it.

mtmower
09-11-2013, 01:22 AM
Swank, Thanks for the info and opinions you shared. Even though a 104 is not in my future I enjoyed reading your write up and hope to hear your final thoughts once you demo the other brands. It would also be great to hear what machines would be your choice, budget allowing, and what your final purchases are.

Swank1975
09-11-2013, 11:17 AM
I will update on this when we decide.

weaver
09-11-2013, 04:10 PM
Subscribed...

DK35vince
09-11-2013, 06:04 PM
I have 2 rear finish mowers I run on my tractor.
A 72" side discharge and an 84" rear discharge.
The 72" side discharge takes more power to run it than the larger 84" rear discharge

Realslowww
09-11-2013, 07:17 PM
It's just common sense, a rear discharge just cuts it and drops it and does not push it across the deck.

I just finished talking to some guy's about this and they had a 72 side chute and a 72 rear discharge and both were Hustler HD's and they said they will not be buying more rear discharge because the rear dis does not cut well at top speed so the 15 MPH Super is a waste with the rear discharge deck.

They basically told me if your were mowing normal accounts that were not big the Super HD was overkill. They had Big Dogs and liked them as well but said on big open accounts the Hustler HD was more productive.

mtmower
09-11-2013, 10:52 PM
They basically told me if your were mowing normal accounts that were not big the Super HD was overkill. They had Big Dogs and liked them as well but said on big open accounts the Hustler HD was more productive.

Whats overkill for one is just right for others. My next two mowers will more than likely be HDs or Cheetahs for me.

Been running SZs for the last 12 years and it would be an adjustment to go to a lesser model when it comes to ride and speed. Ran a HD 60" side discharge for almost 40 hrs. and other than maybe adding a turbo baffle, make the deck adjustment for pitch and height a simpler quicker adjustment, and adding EFI or DFI, it is one of the best mowers I've had the pleasure of using. One other negative is at 16 mph on any hard surface the caster are dancing like they're gonna fly off. Considering this is when these high speeds are most commonly used I question the caster set up. Rep told me that the caster dance is not as bad with FFs which is what I noticed on my 14.5 mph XR7. Still this a another spot that could used a little tweeking for us overly picky guys.

Sure a guy can save a few bucks and still get a heck of a machine, but if your running solo and don't have hourly employees running them, the higher series sure are nice.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
09-12-2013, 12:55 AM
It's just common sense, a rear discharge just cuts it and drops it and does not push it across the deck.

I just finished talking to some guy's about this and they had a 72 side chute and a 72 rear discharge and both were Hustler HD's and they said they will not be buying more rear discharge because the rear dis does not cut well at top speed so the 15 MPH Super is a waste with the rear discharge deck.

They basically told me if your were mowing normal accounts that were not big the Super HD was overkill. They had Big Dogs and liked them as well but said on big open accounts the Hustler HD was more productive.

What is this stuff he said she said stuff Glad you have some common sense
When is a 72'' is a over kill Its never a over kill back in the 90s people thought my 60'' mower was over kill since everybody else was running 50'' and smaller
In a small lawn I can do it less passes and less turning around with 72''

The guys miss you in your thread Generac blowing Rods You need come back and play some more See if we can fix your Z some more:laugh:

Ridin' Green
09-12-2013, 01:10 AM
It's just common sense, a rear discharge just cuts it and drops it and does not push it across the deck.



That's not common sense, and they don't just cut it and drop it. If that were true at all, no manu of any brand deck would bother putting baffles under their RD decks to help direct air and clipping flow out the rear. The blades under a RD deck have to deal with large volumes of clippings at any one time, wrapping them all around the entire cutting chamber and blade before exiting under a RD deck, so common sense should tell you that it is going to require a bit more HP. Plus, the wider rear opening makes for much less discharge pressure, so again, the clippings stay under the deck longer draining power.

I am not using any he said/she said reference for my argument either. I have posted links to various manu's own printed info about this subject, but apparently they don't know anything since they don't agree with you here I guess eh?

GMLC
09-12-2013, 07:09 AM
I always get a kick out of the "stories" some post as fact. Several LS members do this consistently. Once in a while is fine but it gets suspicious after a while.
Posted via Mobile Device

baileylawnservice
09-12-2013, 07:27 AM
I always get a kick out of the "stories" some post as fact. Several LS members do this consistently. Once in a while is fine but it gets suspicious after a while.
Posted via Mobile Device

You have to love the classic topper :cool2:

Disciple X
09-12-2013, 10:58 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
09-12-2013, 01:29 PM
Whats overkill for one is just right for others. My next two mowers will more than likely be HDs or Cheetahs for me.

Been running SZs for the last 12 years and it would be an adjustment to go to a lesser model when it comes to ride and speed. Ran a HD 60" side discharge for almost 40 hrs. and other than maybe adding a turbo baffle, make the deck adjustment for pitch and height a simpler quicker adjustment, and adding EFI or DFI, it is one of the best mowers I've had the pleasure of using. One other negative is at 16 mph on any hard surface the caster are dancing like they're gonna fly off. Considering this is when these high speeds are most commonly used I question the caster set up. Rep told me that the caster dance is not as bad with FFs which is what I noticed on my 14.5 mph XR7. Still this a another spot that could used a little tweeking for us overly picky guys.

Sure a guy can save a few bucks and still get a heck of a machine, but if your running solo and don't have hourly employees running them, the higher series sure are nice.

I run flex forks of which aren't suited to all, but I personally would not be on any Super Z without them. I drive on pavement and extremely hard packed (rolled with a 10 ton vibrating packer) gravel, and have yet to see my front wheels deviate from anything but perfectly straight on my HyperDrive 72" Super Z. I have seen the shimmy with my 2006 Super Z which also has flex forks, I remedied that by pulling the bolts, putting Locktite on the threads, and tightening them to where the shimmy was totally removed. The Locktite keeps the bolts from loosening and bringing the shimmy back into play. I feel assured the same procedure can be used to alleviate the problem on a mower not using flex forks.

Realslowww
09-12-2013, 07:56 PM
Whats overkill for one is just right for others. My next two mowers will more than likely be HDs or Cheetahs for me.

Been running SZs for the last 12 years and it would be an adjustment to go to a lesser model when it comes to ride and speed. Ran a HD 60" side discharge for almost 40 hrs. and other than maybe adding a turbo baffle, make the deck adjustment for pitch and height a simpler quicker adjustment, and adding EFI or DFI, it is one of the best mowers I've had the pleasure of using. One other negative is at 16 mph on any hard surface the caster are dancing like they're gonna fly off. Considering this is when these high speeds are most commonly used I question the caster set up. Rep told me that the caster dance is not as bad with FFs which is what I noticed on my 14.5 mph XR7. Still this a another spot that could used a little tweeking for us overly picky guys.

Sure a guy can save a few bucks and still get a heck of a machine, but if your running solo and don't have hourly employees running them, the higher series sure are nice.

I don't like the slower mowers now either but on alot of normal accounts a 12 MPH Z is fine and a 15 MPH Z will really not make a difference. I bought a Super for this one account I had and it would shave about 2 hours off compared to my Deere same deck size but since I no longer do this one big account a 12 MPH Z would work just as well for me now.

I also really like the way the XR7 Super rides compared to the Exmark, Deere, Scag I have owned.

Realslowww
09-12-2013, 08:01 PM
Whats overkill for one is just right for others. My next two mowers will more than likely be HDs or Cheetahs for me.

Been running SZs for the last 12 years and it would be an adjustment to go to a lesser model when it comes to ride and speed. Ran a HD 60" side discharge for almost 40 hrs. and other than maybe adding a turbo baffle, make the deck adjustment for pitch and height a simpler quicker adjustment, and adding EFI or DFI, it is one of the best mowers I've had the pleasure of using. One other negative is at 16 mph on any hard surface the caster are dancing like they're gonna fly off. Considering this is when these high speeds are most commonly used I question the caster set up. Rep told me that the caster dance is not as bad with FFs which is what I noticed on my 14.5 mph XR7. Still this a another spot that could used a little tweeking for us overly picky guys.

Sure a guy can save a few bucks and still get a heck of a machine, but if your running solo and don't have hourly employees running them, the higher series sure are nice.

A Cheetah is no match for a HD in build or quality, actually for the money a HD is a steal.

Realslowww
09-12-2013, 08:04 PM
That's not common sense, and they don't just cut it and drop it. If that were true at all, no manu of any brand deck would bother putting baffles under their RD decks to help direct air and clipping flow out the rear. The blades under a RD deck have to deal with large volumes of clippings at any one time, wrapping them all around the entire cutting chamber and blade before exiting under a RD deck, so common sense should tell you that it is going to require a bit more HP. Plus, the wider rear opening makes for much less discharge pressure, so again, the clippings stay under the deck longer draining power.

I am not using any he said/she said reference for my argument either. I have posted links to various manu's own printed info about this subject, but apparently they don't know anything since they don't agree with you here I guess eh?

I don't know what deck you are talking about but the rear discharge I have looked at do not have near the baffle arrangement as a side shoot, the reason the grass comes out in longer uncut pieces on a rear discharge is because it gets rid of it much faster, drops it out the back.

Realslowww
09-12-2013, 08:08 PM
What is this stuff he said she said stuff Glad you have some common sense
When is a 72'' is a over kill Its never a over kill back in the 90s people thought my 60'' mower was over kill since everybody else was running 50'' and smaller
In a small lawn I can do it less passes and less turning around with 72''

The guys miss you in your thread Generac blowing Rods You need come back and play some more See if we can fix your Z some more:laugh:

The 72 part is not overkill the rest of the mower is, the gas a 37 HP Kaw eats the weight of the HD, the 16 MPH drive. The mower is an industrial beast and unless you are mowing big industrial areas it is not necessary.

For normal cutting the preferred their Big Dogs because they eat less fuel!

Snyder's Lawn Inc
09-12-2013, 11:21 PM
The 72 part is not overkill the rest of the mower is, the gas a 37 HP Kaw eats the weight of the HD, the 16 MPH drive. The mower is an industrial beast and unless you are mowing big industrial areas it is not necessary.

For normal cutting the preferred their Big Dogs because they eat less fuel!

If you didn't have one you would have the other

You don't have be mowing industrial areas With one I have some Resi. homes are acres

When you have one you target larger big jobs but might have small ones So guys has them will buy one mower to cut many different size jobs

Realslowww
09-13-2013, 03:58 AM
If you didn't have one you would have the other

You don't have be mowing industrial areas With one I have some Resi. homes are acres

When you have one you target larger big jobs but might have small ones So guys has them will buy one mower to cut many different size jobs

I am talking about specifically the Hustler HD not the :laugh: Dixie:laugh: Chopper:laugh:. Dixie made a twin engine beast, the HD is not that bad but you get the point.

Yes if you do alot of 1 acre plus accounts then a HD makes sense but even Mchippy say's he misses the agility of a lighter smaller Z and he is only using a 60. He even claims for most it is overkill and he owns one.

mtmower
09-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Again.

To each there own.

In almost 40 hrs. of demo time, not once did I find that the HD was just too much mower for me to justify. This of course is partly due to being part of the market group which these high end mowers are shooting for. I'll pay for the speed, cut, ride quality, dependability and status. Whether I actually use it to 110% of it's potential or not is not the end decision for me. My clients appreciate when I pull up in a respectable, clean rig, with cutting edge equipment (:laugh:I know, I know, but I had to say it:laugh:). Shoot if I feel good mowing on it that's something too. Pride of ownership. I could use an MTD and keep my overhead down and take longer but and HD is more fun. It's like going from a tricycle to a motorcycle.

I mow anything from a postage stamp trailer court lot to 70,000 sqft yards in addition to common areas/road sides of HOAs. As long as there isn't a gate I can't fit through, my 66" is on it in most cases. The HD was no different. Maybe even used slightly more easily due to it being a 60".

Once my mowers reach approx 1500 plus hrs. I tend to sell them to large acreage home owners and have done respectively well doing so. It helps that my mowers were some of the better-to-be-had-in-there-day to begin with when it comes to resale also. What is the over kill? Warranty? Mower for the dollar? Speed? Hp? :weightlifter: Personally it's tough to get too much hp for me. It's like being to0 good looking! Now GPH is a different story.:walking:

Realslowww
09-13-2013, 12:56 PM
That is the thing about GPH, some of these outfits mowing big time all week with lots of mowers a carb 37 HP enginend mower will add 100's of $ a week to your mowing bill.

That was the point this crew was making, they mow alot and did not like the 1000 Kaw on that merit.

For the money on a top of the line mower the HD Super is by far the most bang for the $. I priced the replacement hydro components and they only want a little more than the old mid grade Super components and we know the HD stuff probably cost alot more to buy from the manufacturer.

They added 1100 $ to the sticker over the old XR7 Super and you get alot more mower for the money, I just wish the mower was more compact, lower and a 100 pounds lighter.

Snyder's Lawn Inc
09-13-2013, 04:31 PM
I am talking about specifically the Hustler HD not the :laugh: Dixie:laugh: Chopper:laugh:. Dixie made a twin engine beast, the HD is not that bad but you get the point.

Yes if you do alot of 1 acre plus accounts then a HD makes sense but even Mchippy say's he misses the agility of a lighter smaller Z and he is only using a 60. He even claims for most it is overkill and he owns one.

You was talking about 72'' mower That is what I was talking about didn't say nothing about Dixie Chopper

If bid the job right should have worry about gas
Like my self I have gas charge I add when gas goes over my base price I had set

Realslowww
09-13-2013, 05:24 PM
You was talking about 72'' mower That is what I was talking about didn't say nothing about Dixie Chopper

If bid the job right should have worry about gas
Like my self I have gas charge I add when gas goes over my base price I had set

Not all 72's are created equal, take if you are mowing an area like Puppy. Most people really cannot utilize the full potential of a 72 let alone a Super.

Take your standard 12 or 13 MPH Z 72, Puppies 72 HD with the 26 tires will on a property like his make you get done hours faster than a normal 72. Only if you have accounts to where you can mow that fast other than that a HD is overkill not the 72 part.

Ridin' Green
09-13-2013, 07:14 PM
Not all 72's are created equal, take if you are mowing an area like Puppy. Most people really cannot utilize the full potential of a 72 let alone a Super.

Take your standard 12 or 13 MPH Z 72, Puppies 72 HD with the 26 tires will on a property like his make you get done hours faster than a normal 72. Only if you have accounts to where you can mow that fast other than that a HD is overkill not the 72 part.

You are constantly saying stuff like this, but always overlooking one main thing..... there is a speed at which the BTS can no longer come close to keeping up with the ground speed traveled. That comes at around 13-14 mph max, and then only in stiff southern grass. Anything you post to the contrary is BS and goes against science and math.

TLS
09-13-2013, 07:19 PM
Ridin',

I understand your issue with speed vs BTS.

But I've seen plenty of commercial and residential properties cut with various brand ZTR's that are NOT fast mowers and they're leaving them with a LOT of stringers and missed blades of grass.

There were several situations that my SuperZ did a fine job at full stick (whatever that may have been mph wise ~ 14+??). Thick grass, no way, but on thin drought stressed grass, it was a big times saver to blast to these speeds if only for a hundred feet or so.

This was on a version 1.0 XR-7 running close to 3800 rpm in light conditions.

Ridin' Green
09-13-2013, 07:29 PM
Ridin',

I understand your issue with speed vs BTS.

But I've seen plenty of commercial and residential properties cut with various brand ZTR's that are NOT fast mowers and they're leaving them with a LOT of stringers and missed blades of grass.

There were several situations that my SuperZ did a fine job at full stick (whatever that may have been mph wise ~ 14+??). Thick grass, no way, but on thin drought stressed grass, it was a big times saver to blast to these speeds if only for a hundred feet or so.

This was on a version 1.0 XR-7 running close to 3800 rpm in light conditions.

I know guys do it. I've seen several near me doing it, but the math (I did it this summer for another thread that was running here about something similar) shows that at about 13-14 mph the BTS can barely stay even with the ground speed, meaning at least 1 strike of the cutting edge per inch of forward travel.

Anything above that and stringers are going to become a big problem. Realslowww's talk of 15+ mph mowing speeds is not realistic at all unless what the finished product looks like doesn't matter at all. Since this is a professional cutting forum mainly concerned with nicely maintained areas and not road side ditches, it needs to be pointed out IMO for newbies reading along.

WayneJessie
09-13-2013, 08:39 PM
I've read of several guys having relatively short deck belt life on the regular Super Z. I wonder how this long belt will fare.

Realslowww
09-13-2013, 09:15 PM
I know guys do it. I've seen several near me doing it, but the math (I did it this summer for another thread that was running here about something similar) shows that at about 13-14 mph the BTS can barely stay even with the ground speed, meaning at least 1 strike of the cutting edge per inch of forward travel.

Anything above that and stringers are going to become a big problem. Realslowww's talk of 15+ mph mowing speeds is not realistic at all unless what the finished product looks like doesn't matter at all. Since this is a professional cutting forum mainly concerned with nicely maintained areas and not road side ditches, it needs to be pointed out IMO for newbies reading along.

Hustler specifically designed the XR7 for light southern pasture grass and that model Super would mow 2 week old road grass fine at full stick and do a acceptable job, None of my other mowers mowed road way grass like the XR7. Puppy gets the same results for what he does and by the way you can raise the BTS a little with pulley changes and it will be just fine.

If a Hustler is wearing deck belts out more than likely the pulleys are worn out or something else is not right. I love the one belt do it all deck.

mtmower
09-13-2013, 09:40 PM
I've read of several guys having relatively short deck belt life on the regular Super Z. I wonder how this long belt will fare.

I average about 1000-1200 out of a deck belt. About the same on a hydro belt. I'm very happy getting these types of hours out of a belt.

Realslowww
09-13-2013, 10:54 PM
Yaa after using a design like this one belt blade deck drive I do not want to go back to a drive shaft or a 2 belt system for deck drive.

Ridin' Green
09-13-2013, 11:51 PM
Deere has been using a one belt deck drive for quite some time. It's a long belt for sure, but I'd rather have only one to deal with then two any time.

TLS
09-14-2013, 04:37 AM
I don't think I ever "wore" a Hustler deck belt out. There was always some sort of outside force involved in its demise! Usually a stick, branch, debris, or an idler pulley.

As for hydro belts.... Probably 4 per season! ALL due to sticks and branches!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
09-14-2013, 05:37 AM
I don't think I ever "wore" a Hustler deck belt out. There was always some sort of outside force involved in its demise! Usually a stick, branch, debris, or an idler pulley.

As for hydro belts.... Probably 4 per season! ALL due to sticks and branches!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Hey TLS if the hydro wheel motors , deck cut fixed and more HP were provided on your old Hustler would you have liked the mower?

TLS
09-14-2013, 09:11 AM
Yes! I'd probably still have it!

Mine had the perfect storm of issues!

Weak hydro system.

Poor excuse of a Free Flow Triangle XR-7

Not enough power
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
09-14-2013, 11:51 AM
Yes! I'd probably still have it!

Mine had the perfect storm of issues!

Weak hydro system.

Poor excuse of a Free Flow Triangle XR-7

Not enough power
Posted via Mobile Device

That mower design was close to being great, it needed 13 MPH wheel motors not 15 with those pumps and a 33 Generac and a better deck design for multi purpose cutting.

I wonder what would happen on a XR7 if you pull the front channel baffle completely out and make more room for grass to travel and get out? you said put the mew VX4 blades on it correct ?

GMLC
09-14-2013, 04:35 PM
Hustler specifically designed the XR7 for light southern pasture grass and that model Super would mow 2 week old road grass fine at full stick and do a acceptable job, None of my other mowers mowed road way grass like the XR7. Puppy gets the same results for what he does.

What goes on in the pumpkin patch isnt really real world conditions....
Posted via Mobile Device

TLS
09-14-2013, 05:01 PM
That mower design was close to being great, it needed 13 MPH wheel motors not 15 with those pumps and a 33 Generac and a better deck design for multi purpose cutting.

I wonder what would happen on a XR7 if you pull the front channel baffle completely out and make more room for grass to travel and get out? you said put the mew VX4 blades on it correct ?

It needed pumps and motors that lasted more than 3-500hrs.

It needed the VX4 blades

It needed smooth rear baffles. Not the junky filler pieces that were made to correct the Free-Flow-Triangle abortion.

It needed everything else done that was improved upon on the newer models. But it needed to keep the 15gal fuel capacity.

And it needed my 1-Liter EFI Big Block Kohler to spin things efficiently.

I'm OK with the VX4, except for the discharge.


There are a LOT of companies making ZTR's that are Sooooo close to being perfect. You simply need to pick the thorn that your OK with!

puppypaws
09-14-2013, 05:21 PM
What goes on in the pumpkin patch isnt really real world conditions....
Posted via Mobile Device

This is my pumpkin patch, let's see a picture of yours for a comparison.

GMLC
09-14-2013, 05:22 PM
There are a LOT of companies making ZTR's that are Sooooo close to being perfect. You simply need to pick the thorn that your OK with!

This statement is so true. Good call.
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
09-14-2013, 06:20 PM
What goes on in the pumpkin patch isnt really real world conditions....
Posted via Mobile Device

Yaa it is if you use that mower for big mowing jobs, Puppy is Puppy and the Pumkin Patch is the Pumkin Patch, God bless the Pupster! :usflag: :laugh:

Realslowww
09-14-2013, 06:34 PM
It needed pumps and motors that lasted more than 3-500hrs.

It needed the VX4 blades

It needed smooth rear baffles. Not the junky filler pieces that were made to correct the Free-Flow-Triangle abortion.

It needed everything else done that was improved upon on the newer models. But it needed to keep the 15gal fuel capacity.

And it needed my 1-Liter EFI Big Block Kohler to spin things efficiently.

I'm OK with the VX4, except for the discharge.


There are a LOT of companies making ZTR's that are Sooooo close to being perfect. You simply need to pick the thorn that your OK with!

Exmark was using the same pumps? I don't think the pumps were the problem but the wheel motors they were being used with.

TLS
09-14-2013, 06:49 PM
I don't know what it was, but no other company was using a FAN and stacked coolers! So this thing should have lasted forever!

But it didn't.

And it stranded me SEVERAL times on lawns and cost me considerable money and lost time to address.

Thing is, Hustler kept acting like they never had hydro issues in my era SuperZ's!!!

They had SEVERAL opportunities to step to the plate and make sure I was satisfied.

I couldn't trust the machine or them.

I moved on.

Except when someone pulls off the scab (threads like this)!!!

Realslowww
09-14-2013, 07:31 PM
I don't know what it was, but no other company was using a FAN and stacked coolers! So this thing should have lasted forever!

But it didn't.

And it stranded me SEVERAL times on lawns and cost me considerable money and lost time to address.

Thing is, Hustler kept acting like they never had hydro issues in my era SuperZ's!!!

They had SEVERAL opportunities to step to the plate and make sure I was satisfied.

I couldn't trust the machine or them.

I moved on.

Except when someone pulls off the scab (threads like this)!!!

I think what the problem was on paper the White wheel motors looked great and Hustler did not test the system enough. The wheel motors had a good price and good specifications but did not live up to what the specs said for any period of time.

Hustler used them because they were fast and cheap so they could advertise a hot rod mower, the new lower grade Super uses Parker 280 wheel motors and only goes 13 MPH and you know what I bet it is a good system? The Exmark only goes 13 using those pumps and 280 wheel motors, big pumps are good if you do alot of hills or move alot of weight but you need the power and right wheel motors to make the system correct and Hustler did not have that on the older generation Super.

The new pumps on the HD move alot of fluid and require even more power. Only if you need a system like that is it necessary other than that it cost extra fuel to push the whole system and is not worth it.

If you are in an area where you can only mow 8 or 10 MPH the big hydro system will just suck power and fuel and is a waste unless you have a lot of hills and then you need torque wheel motors with big pumps..

Mickhippy
09-14-2013, 07:37 PM
The new pumps on the HD move alot of fluid and require even more power. Only if you need a system like that is it necessary other than that it cost extra fuel to push the whole system and is not worth it.

If you are in an area where you can only mow 8 or 10 MPH the big hydro system will just suck power and fuel and is a waste unless you have a lot of hills and then you need torque wheel motors with big pumps..

That pretty much sums up what I meant when I said the HD SZ (or what ever you want to call it) is overkill in some situations. If you only do small or flat props then there is no need for such a machine but, if you have a mixture of big and small and add hills (which I guess most do) then the HD is a great option (im not talking about the deck mind you).

GMLC
09-14-2013, 08:18 PM
This is my pumpkin patch, let's see a picture of yours for a comparison.

Is this where we compare our manhood?

If you want me to post pics of my home and lifes work I will. Just remember I live in gods country.
Posted via Mobile Device

Realslowww
09-14-2013, 09:25 PM
Is this where we compare our manhood?

If you want me to post pics of my home and lifes work I will. Just remember I live in gods country.
Posted via Mobile Device

Please no obscene nudity! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

mtmower
09-14-2013, 10:35 PM
Now wait a minute..... Puppy's pics may show a little piece of heaven but God's country is not out east as far as New Hampshire or NC! Shoot even though Mic has palm trees he's still not quite there. Montana is God's country!

Snyder's Lawn Inc
09-14-2013, 11:50 PM
Now wait a minute..... Puppy's pics may show a little piece of heaven but God's country is not out east as far as New Hampshire or NC! Shoot even though Mic has palm trees he's still not quite there. Montana is God's country!

You are getting close to Gods Country little farther south west of Kan. is Gods Country That's in lower 48

Ridin' Green
09-15-2013, 01:32 AM
Let's face it. It's all God's country. Man has just screwed some of it up pretty badly.

Realslowww
09-15-2013, 06:06 AM
Puppies paradise is pretty close to God, he just needs a Dixie Chopper to go with it.

GMLC
09-15-2013, 07:04 AM
Now wait a minute..... Puppy's pics may show a little piece of heaven but God's country is not out east as far as New Hampshire or NC! Shoot even though Mic has palm trees he's still not quite there. Montana is God's country!

LOL...This is true. My best vacation ever was Glacier National Park!!
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
09-15-2013, 08:47 AM
If you want me to post pics of my home and lifes work I will. Just remember I live in gods country.

I would love to see a few pictures of God's country, not really interested in your life's work, but laying all jokes aside, I do believe New Hampshire to be a beautiful state. Then again, I believe all land to be God's country; of which has its own special beauty, this for the fact He designed it in different forms for a reason. Please never lessen his name by not capitalizing the first letter, this is "GOD" you are speaking of.

GMLC
09-15-2013, 09:21 AM
I hope I don't offend anyone having a hard time in this economy. Its not my intention to show off. My wife and I have worked very hard to get to where we are today. We were very fortunate to buy a piece of land and spend two years designing our dream home. Its not a mansion but we love it.

GMLC
09-15-2013, 09:31 AM
Continued pics...

puppypaws
09-15-2013, 12:23 PM
Continued pics...

I love this, your home and landscape is absolutely beautiful. I at one time was an avid trout fisherman, and from the looks of this stream my guess is the trout are there for the taking.

This is true serenity in its finest form, and as far as offending anyone, so be it if they are that ignorant. I really appreciate these photos and would love to see more of your area, it truly is beautiful, and your home matches the landscape wonderfully.

I could easily picture a Moose grazing in your yard.

GMLC
09-15-2013, 12:38 PM
I love this, your home and landscape is absolutely beautiful. I at one time was an avid trout fisherman, and from the looks of this stream my guess is the trout are there for the taking.

This is true serenity in its finest form, and as far as offending anyone, so be it if they are that ignorant. I really appreciate these photos and would love to see more of your area, it truly is beautiful, and your home matches the landscape wonderfully.

I could easily picture a Moose grazing in your yard.

Thanks Puppy. Your place looks amazing as well. Love your farmers porch!
We do have plenty of trout and moose.http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=252044&stc=1&d=1341008225

weaver
09-15-2013, 02:00 PM
House is gorgeous GMLC, but what are the chances for having three little girls? With all that wooded area and a property like that for for building forts and camping seems like three little boys would have a blast.. I guess the girls have fun picking berries with there mom though...:laugh:

GMLC
09-15-2013, 02:17 PM
House is gorgeous GMLC, but what are the chances for having three little girls? With all that wooded area and a property like that for for building forts and camping seems like three little boys would have a blast.. I guess the girls have fun picking berries with there mom though...:laugh:

LOL..Actually only two are mine. But if I had three Im sure it would be another girl with my luck! Both my girls do love camping, fishing and the outdoors. Not looking foward to the teen years...
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
09-15-2013, 04:49 PM
Awesome GMLC!! You and your wife's taste in design is very much like my wife's and mine. I love all the rustic exposed beam and woodwork. Being a carpenter, exposed wood has always captured my attention . Beautiful home and property you have. Anyone should be proud of that, and no one should be offended or jealous (well, I am, but I won't admit it:laugh:).

GMLC
09-15-2013, 06:18 PM
Awesome GMLC!! You and your wife's taste in design is very much like my wife's and mine. I love all the rustic exposed beam and woodwork. Being a carpenter, exposed wood has always captured my attention . Beautiful home and property you have. Anyone should be proud of that, and no one should be offended or jealous (well, I am, but I won't admit it:laugh:).

Thanks bro! That means a lot to me coming from a craftsman like yourself!
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
09-15-2013, 07:12 PM
If I had just a single penny for every nail I've driven in my life, I'd be a very wealthy man! I never used air guns (I have, but only while helping others). Just a good hammer and arm power. I have been the contracted carpenter on many rustic homes over the years. I always cringed when I found out they were going to paint or stain beautiful wood. Never understood using it then covering it.:hammerhead:

Glad you were smarter than that. I see you have casement windows up high over the beams in the one pic. Do you they stay closed, or do you bother opening them ever. I know they have auxiliary extension handles that allow you to open second story windows from the main floor.

GMLC
09-15-2013, 08:21 PM
If I had just a single penny for every nail I've driven in my life, I'd be a very wealthy man! I never used air guns (I have, but only while helping others). Just a good hammer and arm power. I have been the contracted carpenter on many rustic homes over the years. I always cringed when I found out they were going to paint or stain beautiful wood. Never understood using it then covering it.:hammerhead:

Glad you were smarter than that. I see you have casement windows up high over the beams in the one pic. Do you they stay closed, or do you bother opening them ever. I know they have auxiliary extension handles that allow you to open second story windows from the main floor.

Funny I have the rod and handles to open those but never have. I wanted triangle windows there but the cost was crazy.
Posted via Mobile Device

LibertyFarmLandscaping
09-15-2013, 11:36 PM
Funny I have the rod and handles to open those but never have. I wanted triangle windows there but the cost was crazy.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wow, that is beautiful GMLC.

I live in the cow patty patch instead of the pumpkin patch.

We have a ranch that has been in my family since 1865 and it has shrunk to only 85 ac now with 20 head of cattle.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ridin' Green
09-15-2013, 11:46 PM
Wow, that is beautiful GMLC.

I live in the cow patty patch instead of the pumpkin patch.

We have a ranch that has been in my family since 1865 and it has shrunk to only 85 ac now with 20 head of cattle.
Posted via Mobile Device

That's worlds ahead of living in the concrete jungle.;) Besides, that's pretty cool to have that much family history in your home.

GMLC
09-16-2013, 05:52 AM
Wow, that is beautiful GMLC.

I live in the cow patty patch instead of the pumpkin patch.

We have a ranch that has been in my family since 1865 and it has shrunk to only 85 ac now with 20 head of cattle.
Posted via Mobile Device

I love old homes! Just shows how well it was built and how well those who have taken care of it all these years. The history at your property must be amazing.
Posted via Mobile Device