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clayslandscape
10-18-2012, 06:55 PM
I have a customer that I have been treating his lawn for 2 years now. That includes aeration, seed, lime, fertilizer, weed killer and so on....

The entire yard looks great except for this one spot that is not that big but its a big deal to the customer... The soil test simply says it is registered at 5.7 on the pH scale and thats all that deficient...

I have aerated before and then topdressed with peat moss but that did not help any either...

Smallaxe
10-18-2012, 07:19 PM
It looks like artificially high ground that rises up to meet the base of the tree... try tilling it up with an extraordinarily large amount of compost and try it again... could be tree roots, sand, shade, compaction, or something else...

clayslandscape
10-18-2012, 09:23 PM
Not to mention, when they built the house, they had the entire area laid in sod and then had it redone a year later.

nealster
10-18-2012, 09:44 PM
What kind of tree is that in the background. Many times trees - certain types of fruit trees can have an adverse affect on turf surrounding them or within the drip line of the tree.

clayslandscape
10-18-2012, 09:54 PM
The area is covered in oaks.
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Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:01 PM
I saw acorns in the first picture and then what appears to be sand or agri. lime on other areas. What is that white stuff???
Looks like slime from total over watering!! I know the Melich 3 soil tests will not tell you of impending disease unless you acknowledge to the State that you want a toxicology report. This will probably cost you and the customer needs to know up front. Find out how much first. Under those trees will have grub issues, possible armyworm issues....and I noticed a pine tree.......sap problems because of insect attacks.
It is hard to tell from pics and more in depth studies needs to be done first. I mean, disease or fungus has to be detected with microscopes and involved tests.

What grass type is this??

Cadzilla
10-18-2012, 10:02 PM
Probably lack of water due to that serious incline the lawn is planted on. It just runs off!

Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:14 PM
Lack of water in the woods maybe as it appears to have been cleaned out. All pertinent leaf litter removed. All water drains down the hill..........yes, and ends up next to the house! The turf is green! Unless the soil is tested to make sure and a divider or retainer enclosure is made at the drip line of those trees, then this hillside will not improve.
I can guarantee that the tree roots were severed at the time of construction, so there is nothing but roots down on that slope. Aerating is impossible!!!at first glance. You may only get down 2 inches at best. Build a divider.........add more soil, resod that hill. Plant some native plants to slow down or divert water. Anything to reduce soil and silt loss on that slope will improve turfgrass growth.

clayslandscape
10-18-2012, 10:15 PM
Probably lack of water due to that serious incline the lawn is planted on. It just runs off!

He waters with his irrigation twice a day.
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Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Slime mold!
Nutrient loss....silt loss and compacted region on that hill. Grass will grow down hill better than growing uphill. Gravity 101!!!
Still build a divider separating that woodline and start over with new topsoil and sod!

clayslandscape
10-18-2012, 10:25 PM
I saw acorns in the first picture and then what appears to be sand or agri. lime on other areas. What is that white stuff???
Looks like slime from total over watering!! I know the Melich 3 soil tests will not tell you of impending disease unless you acknowledge to the State that you want a toxicology report. This will probably cost you and the customer needs to know up front. Find out how much first. Under those trees will have grub issues, possible armyworm issues....and I noticed a pine tree.......sap problems because of insect attacks.
It is hard to tell from pics and more in depth studies needs to be done first. I mean, disease or fungus has to be detected with microscopes and involved tests.

What grass type is this??
It is TTTF.
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Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:27 PM
I cannot help you further as in my experiences TTTF doesn't do well in these shaded areas too well. Slopes isn't better suited to grass of this growth patterns. Fungus, damping off, and other problems of water and drought.....heat keeps it from fairing well.

Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:31 PM
In cases like this......I opt to the customer to build a retainer wall, allow for drainage, backfill and plant shrubbery. Then the area where the TTTF is growing well, there is not more problems of getting new seed to take on a slope. Problem solved as I have seen other LCO's in my area break their back, subdue to constant migraine's and scratch their heads in seeding areas like this. I don't fool with things like this that may lead distrust and money costs with customer's. I like repeat business, but the wrong repeat business isn't fair to any customer..

clayslandscape
10-18-2012, 10:32 PM
Lack of water in the woods maybe as it appears to have been cleaned out. All pertinent leaf litter removed. All water drains down the hill..........yes, and ends up next to the house! The turf is green! Unless the soil is tested to make sure and a divider or retainer enclosure is made at the drip line of those trees, then this hillside will not improve.
I can guarantee that the tree roots were severed at the time of construction, so there is nothing but roots down on that slope. Aerating is impossible!!!at first glance. You may only get down 2 inches at best. Build a divider.........add more soil, resod that hill. Plant some native plants to slow down or divert water. Anything to reduce soil and silt loss on that slope will improve turfgrass growth.
When I aerated two weeks ago, I went over this area with my exmark stand on very heavily and pulled pretty decent plugs.
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Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:33 PM
You can go even less expensive with border blocks and ground cover in the ivy or pachysandra family.

Think Green
10-18-2012, 10:47 PM
In any case, don't allow for headaches. This area may not be prime for seed growth. Too much shade, wrong time of the season for sowing, poor drainage, no organic matter, poor seed quality, birds eating up the seeds........something.
I don't allow to become involved with headaches like this. Either plan out a solution.....it will cost the same up front to do the improvements or the customer will pay it out in the long run with repeated non-effective seeding.

I am only advising based on my area experiences. We are on a rock embossed clay ridge surrounded by the Mississippi river Delta basins........great for AGriculture.
Our Ridge....Crowley's Ridge is nothing more than rocks!! There is soil in there somewhere but mostly rocks.
Unless you can build up that hillside with 5-6 inches of topsoil to make a good seedbed, then that hard looking tree root infested soil will be futile to fool with. The shade and poor nutrient effects that soil looks terrible.
Normally, I will terrace areas like this and add groundcover, or low growing shade plants. Problem solved.

Smallaxe
10-19-2012, 10:26 AM
twice a day watering, is not the smart way to go at all... the surface of the soil becomes as smooth and as waterproof as asphalt, 2 weeks after your aeration is done... besides,,, too much water and too much fert is all wrong for shade... look 3" below the surface of the soil with a tiller and have the client do it right... twice a day irrigation under trees is about as mis-managed as one could possibly get,,, unless you are on sand... are you on sand???

clayslandscape
10-23-2012, 09:52 PM
Any more opinions? What should I do or tell this customer?

Smallaxe
10-24-2012, 09:51 AM
Any more opinions? What should I do or tell this customer?

What do you mean? tell the customer?

Either give the money back or make it right...

You thought aeration helped create a seedbed that would grow grass, while suffocating the seedlings with too much water... big mistake...

Here's what you do for free to make it right:
slit seed and leave the watering out of it at this point... dormant seed when the ground is about to freeze and add more seed in the early Spring... learn from this error and forget the opinions and excuses... :)

bigslick7878
10-26-2012, 06:50 PM
What do you mean? tell the customer?

Either give the money back or make it right...

You thought aeration helped create a seedbed that would grow grass, while suffocating the seedlings with too much water... big mistake...

Here's what you do for free to make it right:
slit seed and leave the watering out of it at this point... dormant seed when the ground is about to freeze and add more seed in the early Spring... learn from this error and forget the opinions and excuses... :)

Please stop propagating this nonsense.

And that is what it is, despite what you may believe.

He isn't getting good results because grass isn't meant to be grown under the dark, dry conditions right under a tree whose root system is sucking the life out of everything around it. It isn't that complicated.

Dig out a mulch bed, that is what should be under the canopy of a tree. Not grass. I know homeowners hate this because they are lazy and cheap, but that is what should be there.

cgaengineer
10-26-2012, 07:36 PM
A slope...under a tree...there's your answer.
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Smallaxe
10-27-2012, 10:39 AM
I have no idea how southern grasses grow in filtered light, shade or around the base of trees,,, but our standard mix of KBG, PR and CRFescue all survive at some point in the forest lawns, here in the North...

The biggest error that LCOs make is the assumption that grass germinates according to a formula... or that sod takes root according to a formula...

When LCOs acknowledge that different environments will cause different problems WITH Germination and respond according to the need of the seeds, then they could start to develop the ability to make grass germinate on cue...

Kiril
10-27-2012, 10:54 AM
Any more opinions? What should I do or tell this customer?

Get the irrigation under control .... end of discussion.