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jbailey52
11-04-2012, 10:07 AM
Hey everyone... Im not a common poster on this side of the forum, but I think this thread is best posted here. Last December we purchased a new skid steer. For now I will leave out where, and what brand name, I really dont want to start the "Well thats what you get for buying that machine VS this machine.

The problem is this, is has a little over 200 hrs on it. It has been back the the dealer (an hour and 15 mins away) about 7 times. It has blown various hydraulic lines on job sites, spewing 12 gallons of hydro fluid over customer yards and driveways about 4 times. Had to either sit and wait for the parts to be flown into the dealer and fixed on site, or had to be towed away. Last week it actually died in the middle of an innersection on a road, do to some electrical failure. The police actually had a backhow up the street and drugged it (is that a word?) to the side of the road. It was about 3 hours until the machine was picked up.

So my question is where do I stand with this machine? If there was no problems, the dealer would never hear from me. I purchased this expensive, new piece of equipment so I would not have down time from breakdowns of a used machine. Yet I have had multiple with only 200 hours on the machine. The dealer told me the first couple times that with a new machine its "Common for the machine to work out its kinks from manufacturing" Well I think I should be well past that point. The dealer has accomodated me. They have given me a machine to use the last two times it has broken down, but I still feel something needs to be done with the machine.

I guess what im asking from you guys, is your opinion or experiences with this. I hope I dont get to many "Man if that was my machine I would be in his office holding him up by the neck until I get a new machine". I would probably say that also if it was someone else's problem but its not practical/professional. I checked into lemon law in PA and it doesnt cover machinery, only automobiles. So far the sales man said he would talk to the manufacturer but I have heard anything yet.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jeff

AWJ Services
11-04-2012, 10:42 AM
You can only ask the dealer too help you and they do not satisfy you then contact the manufacturer. If they cannot resolve the situation then it may take legal action. There is no easy or right answer too your problem. Each dealer and each manufacturer resolve each situation differently. What they do for someone else they may not do for you. Unless you have a performance contract on the equipment you are at there mercy.

I will add that the manufacturers do watch forums. It may be beneficial too post a detailed account of what is going on in a professional manner with proper grammer and spelling. Sometimes dealers will take the" hope it goes away" approach too problems so your problem may not ever reach the manufacturer.

Also equipment should rarely break down. It is not common for a machine to have major problems that early on.

AEL
11-04-2012, 11:22 AM
I know you will get the goofs on here who will say that you should of boughten brand x instead , but at the same time it would be nice to know what brand it is so one of us can use your scenario when comparing and buying new machines.

There was a guy on the tbn forum that had a problem with asv, he made a detailed post about it and actually had a representative from asv who was a forum member contact him and straighten everything out
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tnmtn
11-04-2012, 11:49 AM
so far you are handling this the correct way by keeping the brand name off the boards. Many people see these and I am sure reps from all manufacturers check in from time to time. At this point I would begin to keep a log of detailed info about every contact you have with the dealer. It may help if you have to play hardball later. If the dealer doesn't help, then as the other fellow said contact the manufacturer. Make sure to keep names and job titles of everyone you speak with as well as date and time. If you don't get help from the manufacturer then post the brand name here and let the bashing begin. At this point call the manufacturer again and let them know you have been documenting
on here your problems. I imagine they will come up with a solution quicky at that point so you can then say what a great job they did to help you when you found the right contact person. Good Luck,

ksss
11-04-2012, 11:57 AM
I had a machine that had numerous problems. It was a 1999 CASE 85XT. It could not run at high elevation, numerous breakdowns. CASE did the right thing by that machine (and kept a customer that bought numerous additional machines since).

Inform your saleman you want to speak (or arrange a face to face meeting) to the regional sales/service rep. These guys have pull within the OEM. Have a complete list of the issues with the machine and the cost in fixing them. If its under warranty then the your lost time due to the breakdowns.

Dont be a Dbag. It sounds like your being reasonable so continue to take the high road.

I have gotten a lot of mileage from various OEMs due to my high activity on large forums such as this one. No one wants to lose sales. You have to post the OEM for that to be effective.

ARP
11-04-2012, 01:47 PM
I'll second KSSS on that. Get your regional rep involved. We had a major issue with a previous Bobcat, and they went above and beyond to make things right for us. Because of the help we got in that situation, I will recommend Bobcat to anyone looking for a machine.

AWJ Services
11-04-2012, 02:07 PM
Every manufacturer will build a small percentage of "Bad Machines" as no one is perfect. I have found that the Dealer can help and hurt getting the machine fixed. Remember the dealer just sales the equipment and he does not give you the warranty, the manufacturer of the machine does. The dealers goal is too support the sale for future profit( through future sales) and they will only lose so much money in the process. The dealer foots the bill for Warranty work and then the Manufacturer reimburses approved claims.

YellowDogSVC
11-04-2012, 03:35 PM
If you make enough noise on here (the manufacturers watch and read these forums), you will get some relief if the machine is truly a lemon. It's in the dealer's and manufacturer's best interest to take care of you and to keep their name out of forums that have thousands of readers. Competition is fierce and they know that and they also know that you can't work if your machine is always broken down. I don't know why it takes so long to get things sorted out but I guess it all boils down to what it costs both sides.

Please post the machine make, year, model, and your options and what you use it for. Be as specific as possible about your experience running it, etc. Pictures help. I would also contact technical support at the manufacturer and make them aware of your pains. Don't bash your brand or the dealer, just state the facts and outline where you have been inconvenienced or lost money over these failures.

I had some issues with CAT and they stood up, took notice, and did the right thing. Bobcat has always stood up, too, when I had problems that were not my fault. Though I currently operate Bobcat, because my local CAT dealer (Holt) did the right thing, I will always consider them and recommend their management as stand-up guys even though they did not have to go to the lengths they did. It was a sore spot for a long time but everything worked out but it took a little whining to get my story out. Not all of us own 20 machines and can afford to have 1 lemon in the shop for months at a time.

I'm not as much of a believer in "bad machines" as I am bad parts or bad manufacturing processes. I've seen my Ford's and Dodge's go from Lemons to reliable with a few part swaps but it took awhile to get it figured out. I wish you good luck in sorting this out. I know it's hard to deal with..

bobcat_ron
11-04-2012, 07:13 PM
If it pops another hose or fitting, just let it run itself right out of oil, and drop it off at the dealership, then if they claim the starved pumps are your fault, just tell them it was a matter of life and death to move the machine or something to that effect. My Dad had the same issue with a Cat excavator that came from the dealer with veggie hydraulic oil, he got pissed off and let it run to the point of hydraulic oil boiling over, then the dealer listened and took it out, but only after threats from my Dad.

jbailey52
11-04-2012, 09:30 PM
I didn't make this thread to throw anyone under the bus, I just wanted to know others experience and recommendations. I have not given the manufacturer or dealer time to respond yet so I think it's best to not mention them until they do so. I just hope they step up and correct this situation because I am not looking for anything other than that. I am a small business ad buying a piece of equipment like that is expensive and if it continues this way can have huge effects on my business. I know how I stand behind my work, I had a question on a finished patio job we did today, and I was standing with the homeowner in his house on a Sunday. I know what I need to do to make my customers happy, and I assume they will also.
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turboawd
11-05-2012, 03:26 AM
I didn't make this thread to throw anyone under the bus, I just wanted to know others experience and recommendations. I have not given the manufacturer or dealer time to respond yet so I think it's best to not mention them until they do so. I just hope they step up and correct this situation because I am not looking for anything other than that. I am a small business ad buying a piece of equipment like that is expensive and if it continues this way can have huge effects on my business. I know how I stand behind my work, I had a question on a finished patio job we did today, and I was standing with the homeowner in his house on a Sunday. I know what I need to do to make my customers happy, and I assume they will also.
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you're doing the right thing, but now you got us wondering what brand? :laugh:

bobcat_ron
11-05-2012, 08:39 AM
I say Raccoon skid steer.
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alldayrj
11-05-2012, 09:04 AM
Its definitely a skat trak
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bobcat_ron
11-05-2012, 09:33 AM
But I would sh!t my pants laughing if it was a Bobcat.
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ksss
11-05-2012, 08:13 PM
Being a landscaper, I would say ASV/CAT MTL or Ditch Witch multifunction backhoe track loader. Those DW machines sound like they have a lot of hyd hose issues.

YellowDogSVC
11-05-2012, 09:37 PM
I don't understand the reluctance to give up a brand name. It's not throwing them under the bus.. it's facts. Maybe someone with similar experience can point to a fix to solve the problems.

Back when my Toolcat was a fairly new piece of machinery my dealer's service department didn't have a lot of experience troubleshooting a particular problem. It took me posting on another forum to get some ideas of where I could look. This was after I spent about $600 at the dealer fixing a component that turned out not to be the problem. Since I kind of led the dealer down that road with what "I thought", I didn't ask them for a refund. Had I been more diligent in searching out the problem, I would have saved myself $600 and about two years of living with a problem. Even Bobcat Technical support was a mile off on their diagnosis of "what it could be" via email. After a few posts online, I got ideas of where to look and found a simple answer to why my machine was leaning. The part was about $10 of my time... :hammerhead:

Digdeep
11-05-2012, 09:42 PM
Being a landscaper, I would say ASV/CAT MTL or Ditch Witch multifunction backhoe track loader. Those DW machines sound like they have a lot of hyd hose issues.

I think it's a JCB??????

AWJ Services
11-06-2012, 09:47 AM
I think it's a JCB??????

Yes it is a JCB and it may come across the wrong way but why would anyone want one.LOL

bobcat_ron
11-06-2012, 09:53 AM
I'm leaning towards the Ditch Witch compact tracked loader backhoe unit, neat little unit, but there's a lot of complex electronics and hydraulics squeezed in them.
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AWJ Services
11-06-2012, 09:59 AM
I'm leaning towards the Ditch Witch compact tracked loader backhoe unit, neat little unit, but there's a lot of complex electronics and hydraulics squeezed in them.
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So do you really think he would have bought one and not posted pictures of it? He has pics of his shiny new JCB and stated he loves it!:drinkup:

bobcat_ron
11-06-2012, 10:19 AM
Where's the pics?
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AWJ Services
11-06-2012, 03:58 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=369037


Here you go.

ksss
11-06-2012, 08:39 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=369037


Here you go.


You and Dig Deep are like LawnSite Detectives NICE!


Interesting discussion on that picture thread.

Unfortunately the poster may actually learn the hard way that resale does matter.

Dig Deep I think I may now know why Dave on HEF has been so quiet.

jbailey52
11-06-2012, 09:04 PM
Well there you go. I didn't say it was a JCB because I didn't want to just bash them without giving time to make it right. I guess it's like your wife, you love her, until she's your ex wife right? Still haven't heard from my salesman so I guess I need to contact JCB directly. Today I was speaking with a client who is an attorney and I mentioned my issues. He said he actually has experience with lawsuits involving heavy trucking equipment malfunctions and warranty issues, so I guess we will see what happens.

ksss
11-06-2012, 09:17 PM
Well there you go. I didn't say it was a JCB because I didn't want to just bash them without giving time to make it right. I guess it's like your wife, you love her, until she's your ex wife right? Still haven't heard from my salesman so I guess I need to contact JCB directly. Today I was speaking with a client who is an attorney and I mentioned my issues. He said he actually has experience with lawsuits involving heavy trucking equipment malfunctions and warranty issues, so I guess we will see what happens.


How much warranty time do you have left on the machine? How many days of work has the machine lost? How much of the repairs have required rework? How many hours are on the machine? Do you work this machine hard? Do you feel its basically a good machine and this one has issues, or do you feel like it lacks proper engineering?


I dont see any of the regulars on this forum bagging on you for buying a JCB. I dont think mentioning the OEM is bagging on them either. Actually it can be a bonus for them. They take care of you after having problems, and you post that story, that can sell more machines than a glowing report would. Everyone has problems, just like every job that all of us as contractors perform is not perfectly done, how we handle those issues, is really what sets companies apart. This is an opportunity for JCB to step up, what they chose to do is up to them. JCB spent a gazilion dollars on this new series of skid steers. They doubled down on the NA market in skid steers. I would be really surprised if they left you hanging with this machine. If it can be agreed that your machine is a problem machine, I think they will make it right. The last thing JCB can chance at this point with these new machines is a bad reputation for 1. having a poorly engineered machine and 2. not standing behind their machines.

bobcat_ron
11-06-2012, 09:39 PM
It's fun to throw people under the bus sometimes, especially here and on HEF.

jbailey52
11-06-2012, 09:49 PM
The machine has 240 hours on it. I have lost many days due to it being down, and have had HUGE cleanups on customer driveways cleaning up 10+ gallons of hydraulic fluid. One of which is not cleaned and looks like im going to be on the hook for. Each breakdown has been something different. Last week was a kicker machine just died in the middle of an intersection (residential) and had to have a police backhoe pull me to the side. We don't use it hard, it loads mulch at our shop, and excavates patios and moves modified stone. I just don't know what to do, I buy a new machine to not have headaches and that's all I have had. The machine comes with a 2 year warranty and a lifetime warranty on the arm.

Cornell
11-06-2012, 10:30 PM
I really don't see the need to bag on a manufacturer unless they either showed negligence or carelessness when dealing with a customer. I know people bag on Bobcats constantly but I love our T770 and T750. I had a drive motor go out because of a defect on my machine (T770) and they were there in 2 hours to pick it up, left me a rental, fixed it the next day and I was out nothing (I had a second CTL on site by cahnce for those two hours)

Any time there is a TSB I get a call about it as a heads up and am given a rental.

If a dealer and manufacturer are stand up and honest they will always get our business.

The color and name of the machine doesn't matter to me.

Hope it works out the best for you.

YellowDogSVC
11-06-2012, 10:58 PM
I really don't see the need to bag on a manufacturer unless they either showed negligence or carelessness when dealing with a customer. I know people bag on Bobcats constantly but I love our T770 and T750. I had a drive motor go out because of a defect on my machine (T770) and they were there in 2 hours to pick it up, left me a rental, fixed it the next day and I was out nothing (I had a second CTL on site by cahnce for those two hours)

Any time there is a TSB I get a call about it as a heads up and am given a rental.

If a dealer and manufacturer are stand up and honest they will always get our business.

The color and name of the machine doesn't matter to me.

Hope it works out the best for you.

That's really good service. My CAT dealer brought me a loaner when my machine was down. Though the issue couldn't be resolved, I still tell folks that my dealer stepped up. Mentioning a brand good or bad, as long as you are stating facts, helps the whole industry.. in my opinion.

I

Digdeep
11-06-2012, 11:07 PM
Dig Deep I think I may now know why Dave on HEF has been so quiet.

:rolleyes::drinkup:

AWJ Services
11-07-2012, 08:11 AM
Well there you go. I didn't say it was a JCB because I didn't want to just bash them without giving time to make it right. I guess it's like your wife, you love her, until she's your ex wife right? Still haven't heard from my salesman so I guess I need to contact JCB directly. Today I was speaking with a client who is an attorney and I mentioned my issues. He said he actually has experience with lawsuits involving heavy trucking equipment malfunctions and warranty issues, so I guess we will see what happens.

JCB is not a very popular machine so not many of us can comment from experience about it's reliability but regardless of Brands, how your dealer treats you should have nothing too do with brands. If anything your Dealer will get bashed first as there your first and primary line of support. In my opinion you seem too have been waiting long enough. I would be on the phone first thing this morning bending everyones ear that would listen. Better to get it resolved as soon as possible.

AWJ Services
11-07-2012, 08:12 AM
You and Dig Deep are like LawnSite Detectives NICE!




Looks like I may have plenty of time on my hands after the election results.LOL

ksss
11-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Looks like I may have plenty of time on my hands after the election results.LOL

You and me both. Sad day.:cry:

KTM
11-07-2012, 04:19 PM
You and me both. Sad day.:cry:

x3 hard to be a proud american anymore:confused:

YellowDogSVC
11-07-2012, 07:03 PM
You and me both. Sad day.:cry:

Last night was very, very hard. :franceflag:

JNB Construction
11-07-2012, 09:01 PM
Last night was very, very hard. :franceflag:

I was still in a funk this morning. :confused:

bobcat_ron
11-07-2012, 09:40 PM
Donald Trump's tweets made me laugh, he is such a racist.

Digdeep
11-07-2012, 09:50 PM
Last night was very, very hard. :franceflag:

Very much so. I thought that there was a chance WI would turn red after the recall this summer.

KTM
11-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Very much so. I thought that there was a chance WI would turn red after the recall this summer.

I thought you were the teacher on here?? From Madison and you were hoping the state would go red?!!? I knew the media was wrong when they said every teacher was for the recall:laugh: Just kidding!

YellowDogSVC
11-07-2012, 11:04 PM
I was still in a funk this morning. :confused:

I'm still feeling it. :cry:

AWJ Services
11-08-2012, 07:55 AM
Herman Cain made a very pertinent argument that there needs to be a new recognized 3rd party that represents the Republicans and democrats that no longer feel there parties are in there best interest. Most conservatives do not feel that the Republican party is properly representing them as most Democrats are not super liberal. Maybe thats why only half of American Voters cast there vote for President. Obama won with 50 million votes. Thats 25% of America. Romney to be was like a better plug for the leak than Obama would be but still neither are what America needs and we all know that Incumbents rarely ever lose. Time to put on on your "Big Boy" and "Big Girl" pants and get too work. Obama failed too comply with releasing his regulatory agenda twice this year.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/03/inhofe-obama-wont-release-regulator-agenda-because-terrible-impact-as-job/?intcmp=obnetwork

As a small business owner it may or may not impact you but this and amended tax codes, change in capital gains tax and many more things will affect us. Good Luck.

ksss
11-08-2012, 10:11 AM
I was pulling for Herman Cain in the Primary election. He actually had a plan to remake the tax code, the flat tax. I liked what he had to say. To bad he did not have enough big money behind him.

YellowDogSVC
11-08-2012, 02:11 PM
I was pulling for Herman Cain in the Primary election. He actually had a plan to remake the tax code, the flat tax. I liked what he had to say. To bad he did not have enough big money behind him.

I had a long rant written out... but I'm with you on this.

Digdeep
11-08-2012, 02:20 PM
I was pulling for Herman Cain in the Primary election. He actually had a plan to remake the tax code, the flat tax. I liked what he had to say. To bad he did not have enough big money behind him.

9-9-9 was the name of his plan and it had some merit.

Digdeep
11-08-2012, 02:27 PM
I thought you were the teacher on here?? From Madison and you were hoping the state would go red?!!? I knew the media was wrong when they said every teacher was for the recall:laugh: Just kidding!

I am an educator:drinkup:

However, we do have some free thinkers and I am a true free market capitalist. I still think the worst thing to happen in my profession was tenure. It's a travesty that there are some who feel that time spent teaching guarantees them a perpetual position. I think that we should be evaluated just like any employee in any good business. Pull your load and work hard, and you can stay and move up, but loaf around and sit on your A$$ and you're gone!

YellowDogSVC
11-08-2012, 03:35 PM
9-9-9 was the name of his plan and it had some merit.

Yes it did. I didn't want to get too political in this thread (God knows we need it) but because Cain's plan made sense and was a radical departure from the norm, he was destroyed. A few years back they made Steve Forbe's flat tax seem like a crackpot idea from a crazy old man.

For every $1000 extra I spend in taxes, that's one less durable good I can purchase or repair I can make. I do not see how "they" don't recognize that you can lower taxes, spur growth and spending, and reap even more revenue. It's so simple but because it doesn't demonize the high income earners and coddle the takers, that rationale thinking won't be embraced. Russia had a 15% flat tax or something very similar. They get it but they use strong-arm tactics to ensure the power of the party favorite whereas we use free cell phones, promises of paying someone's mortgage, and amnesty as enticements to keep the status elite in power. It's pandering at the lowest level and it's obvious and frankly, disgusting.

KTM
11-08-2012, 07:21 PM
I am an educator:drinkup:

However, we do have some free thinkers and I am a true free market capitalist. I still think the worst thing to happen in my profession was tenure. It's a travesty that there are some who feel that time spent teaching guarantees them a perpetual position. I think that we should be evaluated just like any employee in any good business. Pull your load and work hard, and you can stay and move up, but loaf around and sit on your A$$ and you're gone!

I knew many teachers and other public employees that thought like that and were against the recall, They just were not able to speak out for fear!! I totally agree with you on tenure, Interesting time for WI!:drinkup:

AWJ Services
11-08-2012, 07:37 PM
Herman Cain is local too me and he was a bit of a flip flopper. His stances as a political candidate did not match his actions in the private sector and his skeletons where is downfall. He had the backing. Thats the bad thing about politics. Your actual ability too govern is irrelevant. It s a popularity contest plain and simple. I am in no way saying he would not have been a good president but he was unelectable. Newt Gingrich was the best qualified too get things done but he was not a true republican like Romney.

ksss
11-08-2012, 07:45 PM
I supported Cain, then when he washed I was a Gingrich supporter and then when Romney won the nomination, I somewhat grudingly at least initially, supported him and we know how that turned out. I think my support is the KOD (kiss of death).



Any word from JCB or your salesman?

JNB Construction
11-08-2012, 07:57 PM
Any word from JCB or your salesman?

Oh yeah...that's how this thread started. :laugh:

I rolled the same way as far as choices. Cain, Gingrich then Romney. I like Gingrich a lot, but apparently his knowledge wasn't something the voters cared about much.

muddywater
11-08-2012, 08:24 PM
The machine has 240 hours on it. I have lost many days due to it being down, and have had HUGE cleanups on customer driveways cleaning up 10+ gallons of hydraulic fluid. One of which is not cleaned and looks like im going to be on the hook for. Each breakdown has been something different. Last week was a kicker machine just died in the middle of an intersection (residential) and had to have a police backhoe pull me to the side. We don't use it hard, it loads mulch at our shop, and excavates patios and moves modified stone. I just don't know what to do, I buy a new machine to not have headaches and that's all I have had. The machine comes with a 2 year warranty and a lifetime warranty on the arm.

Is it just hoses bursting? Or is it other problems?

One of my friends that is a farmer has a jcb with 6000 hours.

ksss
11-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Oh yeah...that's how this thread started. :laugh:

I rolled the same way as far as choices. Cain, Gingrich then Romney. I like Gingrich a lot, but apparently his knowledge wasn't something the voters cared about much.

No I dont think the voters much cared about Gingrich's knowledge base, like AWJ said its a popularity contest and knowledge of the issues seems to take a "back of the bus seat" to much more trivial methods of deciding who is most fit to lead.

YellowDogSVC
11-08-2012, 08:49 PM
No I dont think the voters much cared about Gingrich's knowledge base, like AWJ said its a popularity contest and knowledge of the issues seems to take a "back of the bus seat" to much more trivial methods of deciding who is most fit to lead.

Just like the teachers, politicians should be held to a standard and graded on their performance. Term limits. The President has a distinct advantage in air time, fund raising, and when you have no real policies other than obstructing progress, you are the darling of the far left. My grandpa was a "Yellow Dog" democrat and he supported Carter.. Geesh.. but I don't think he would support the current administration. I want to believe in the office but there just seems to be so much dirt that it's hard to trust that a single member of the current administration wants us to prosper. I don't know anyone who isn't hurting.. at least in what I would call the middle class. I have hired guys that basically brag about eating steak every night because they are on food stamps. Even had a relative state that they couldn't work much or they could risk losing their welfare. GEESH.. That's the problem right there. If everyone had to pull their fair share, we would be at the top again and you could leave the tax code alone and revenue would stream in because of productivity but instead we are facing a crisis where about half of us are pulling the rest along for a ride. It makes me sick. I work hard and my family works long, hard hours and I watch them write big, fat checks every year while other people get free medical care and steak and eggs every night.

Digdeep
11-08-2012, 08:53 PM
As soon as enough people realize that they can "vote themselves money" we're toast. We're becoming a nation of takers instead of makers. Sad.
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jbailey52
11-08-2012, 09:08 PM
It has been 3 or 4 hydraulic issues. Never an actual ruber hose. One was the fluted end of a hard line snapped off, a different hard line broke which they told me they had to remove the engine for and I don't even remember where the other hydro leaked was. Then the valve that controls the float feature burst. Last weeks issue I was driving from one house, to the end of the street to another house we were on and while in the high gear (the thing is very fast when engaged) it stopped dead while I was in an intersection. And when I say stopped dead the brakes locked up and I almost went through the windshield. The computer kept saying water In fuel, but the mechanic that came on site find a blown fuse, worked fine when replaced except when you engaged the left joystick it blew the same fuse everytime. This time I think was a wire harness issue.
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Junior M
11-08-2012, 09:43 PM
Hopefully the dealer will come through for you..

Have to say my bobcat dealer came through for me a few weeks back.. My 773 lost a centering spool valve or something way more complicated than I can comprehend. But it lost all the hydraulic fluid right in the middle of a big clearing job.. Bobcat came through and gave me another machine to use while mine was being fixed.. And I havent spent hardly any money with them, much less bought a brand new machine from them..

ksss
11-08-2012, 11:12 PM
It has been 3 or 4 hydraulic issues. Never an actual ruber hose. One was the fluted end of a hard line snapped off, a different hard line broke which they told me they had to remove the engine for and I don't even remember where the other hydro leaked was. Then the valve that controls the float feature burst. Last weeks issue I was driving from one house, to the end of the street to another house we were on and while in the high gear (the thing is very fast when engaged) it stopped dead while I was in an intersection. And when I say stopped dead the brakes locked up and I almost went through the windshield. The computer kept saying water In fuel, but the mechanic that came on site find a blown fuse, worked fine when replaced except when you engaged the left joystick it blew the same fuse everytime. This time I think was a wire harness issue.
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I think your going to have to make your case to JCB why this machine should be replaced. Like I said, get all your facts together and have a sit down and lay it all out. Hopefully your machine problems is an isolated incident, because they are not likely to give you your money back, the best I think you would see would your machine replaced with a like machine. I went through a similiar situation and was rolled into a newer and better machine. They basically charged me for the hours I put on the old one (we negotiated that number) and what I paid for that machine was put toward its replacement. Pretty simple.

bearmtnmartin
11-09-2012, 01:41 PM
I have a JCB backhoe. I am not very brand conscious and I shop the the best deal from the best dealer. But I have always been surprised at how little the various brands seem to care about customer retention, and how poor their quality control is. It is not like a piece of excavating equipment is as complex as a car or pickup, and for the most part the layout and systems do not change for a long time. But they can't seem to get it right, and they don't seem capable of making improvements over a model run. On the whole, My JCB has been pretty good, but there have still been a number of issues, and they absolutely refuse to take ownership of them. Its frustrating. Maybe the reason I change brands so often is that they make no effort to retain me as a customer. Cat was the worst. The message that came across to me was "we are the best, this is the machine and this is the price. If you don't buy it someone else will."

ksss
11-09-2012, 02:16 PM
I have a JCB backhoe. I am not very brand conscious and I shop the the best deal from the best dealer. But I have always been surprised at how little the various brands seem to care about customer retention, and how poor their quality control is. It is not like a piece of excavating equipment is as complex as a car or pickup, and for the most part the layout and systems do not change for a long time. But they can't seem to get it right, and they don't seem capable of making improvements over a model run. On the whole, My JCB has been pretty good, but there have still been a number of issues, and they absolutely refuse to take ownership of them. Its frustrating. Maybe the reason I change brands so often is that they make no effort to retain me as a customer. Cat was the worst. The message that came across to me was "we are the best, this is the machine and this is the price. If you don't buy it someone else will."


I agree that it is surpising when a new machine has the issues they seem to have at times. I have had a very small glance into the thought proccess involved when trying to get an OEM to make changes in product. Its huge, even when its obvious improvements need to be made. Things are brought up like the necessary changes to parts inventory, updates to all service and owners manuals yada, yada. Things you would not think about, matter to bean counters. While one would think that fielding the best product possible would be job one, I think its really fielding the best product for the least amount of money and one that yields the greatest profit potential. Which I get, an OEM, like us, are in it to make money. Obviously though there comes a point of diminished returns, when cheap skate ways destroy the product.


I have a nearly two decade relationship with the same dealer and the same OEM. I treated well by both and it would take a serious breakdown on someones end for that to require a change. I think to some extent the dealer and the OEM have to know your also committed to them. It cuts both ways. As to CAT, they seem to cater to the large contractor judging by what the smaller contractors seem to say. The more you buy, the more pull you seem to have. I think that can vary by dealership, but overall that seems to be their philosophy.

Reference the JCB in question. I really think JCB will step up as long as everything is as its been laid out here.

jbailey52
11-09-2012, 06:19 PM
Spoke with the dealer and also the JCB rep. He said he is going to talk to management and get back to me. We shall see.
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cat320
11-10-2012, 10:57 PM
some machines are just cursed no matter what you do it will always be a #13 I'm not talking brand but the machine itself. If your having that much problems with a new machine i would be talking to the dealer and MFG maybe get another machine put it thru you own paces to see if anything happens to that one or just have them buy back that one and get a new one.

AWJ Services
11-11-2012, 01:26 PM
some machines are just cursed no matter what you do it will always be a #13 I'm not talking brand but the machine itself. If your having that much problems with a new machine i would be talking to the dealer and MFG maybe get another machine put it thru you own paces to see if anything happens to that one or just have them buy back that one and get a new one.

Ite seems to be that way with anything Manufactured.

jbailey52
11-18-2012, 09:50 AM
So here is the update. Last week I called my dealer to see where we were at. He said "talked to JCB and they are not going to do anything, if anything will be done it will be between you and I" He said he wanted to put pen to paper and get me in a model with a newer manufacturing date (apparently when your machine is a year old, it's ancient and you should need one with a newer manufacturing date to function) I asked to speak with the JCB rep, so he had him call me. We went over the problems, he said let me run it by management and that was over a week ago and have not heard from anyone since.

DUSTYCEDAR
11-18-2012, 10:38 AM
hang in there the local sales rep and maint dept will be the ones the will fix it in the end so dont pisssss them off.
jcb will have to ok the fix to get them to do it.
if they r trying to sell you a new machine i bet there is something really wrong and they dont want to tell you.
now if they can put u in a new machine for the right deal take it.
best of luck.

AWJ Services
11-18-2012, 10:39 AM
So here is the update. Last week I called my dealer to see where we were at. He said "talked to JCB and they are not going to do anything, if anything will be done it will be between you and I" He said he wanted to put pen to paper and get me in a model with a newer manufacturing date (apparently when your machine is a year old, it's ancient and you should need one with a newer manufacturing date to function) I asked to speak with the JCB rep, so he had him call me. We went over the problems, he said let me run it by management and that was over a week ago and have not heard from anyone since.

Man that stinks. I really hope you can find a solution that works for you.

I know several companies here where I live go through a similar situation with Bobcat and there wheel motors on there tracked machines years ago. Bobcat did little for them and out of 5 companies they either let the machines get repoed or they got rid of them at a loss. One company had 10 Bobcat machines at the time and they got little help. You will find similar stories with every manufacturer if you look. It is tough for small buisnesses too survive much less take 50k hit on a machine you cannot use.

KTM
11-18-2012, 11:30 AM
Man that stinks. I really hope you can find a solution that works for you.

I know several companies here where I live go through a similar situation with Bobcat and there wheel motors on there tracked machines years ago. Bobcat did little for them and out of 5 companies they either let the machines get repoed or they got rid of them at a loss. One company had 10 Bobcat machines at the time and they got little help. You will find similar stories with every manufacturer if you look. It is tough for small buisnesses too survive much less take 50k hit on a machine you cannot use.

The wheel motors were happening even before the trackes machines. One went out on my old man's 873. 870 hours and no help from Bobcat or the dealer. When he bought it 873's were the hot machine that was not on lot's or available as demo's. We allowed a dozen or so perspective buyers demo our machine on our jobsites, for free and BC still stuck him!
Don't let JCB push you around with so few hours!

ksss
11-18-2012, 12:58 PM
If they are trying to get you in a newer machine there is a reason. Changes on machines, especially on "new from the ground up" machines like the JCB are continual. Whether all your issues with your machine have been addressed, is of course unknown. However it certainly will be an improved machine over your current machine.

If JCB is unwilling to help, you are unlikely to get the amount of recourse your looking for, unless your dealer really steps up (and you provided the dealer a very nice profit margin on the orginal sale).

Be diplomatic but you will need to have a "stick" in your hand. That would be informing them of your activity on internet forums, word of mouth and letting them know about the hardship that has been caused by JCB ownership. When all is lost, I have heard of people parking machines at major intersections with signs hanging off of them depicting issues with brand.

I still think JCB will step up if they agree your machine has been a problem. If your dealer is willing to do something for you, I take that as a sign that your dealer agrees with you.

Good luck. Dont let them take too long to get back to you. Every day that they procrastinate the closer your machine is to losing the original warranty period. I think your case is stronger while your machine is under factory warranty.

jbailey52
11-18-2012, 04:26 PM
I hope someone steps up. I know doing what is right is at the core of my business even over profit. Buying a new machine was a huge step for a small business like mine, and to have to make these huge repairs after a warranty period is frightening.
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ksss
11-18-2012, 05:05 PM
I hope someone steps up. I know doing what is right is at the core of my business even over profit. Buying a new machine was a huge step for a small business like mine, and to have to make these huge repairs after a warranty period is frightening.
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Well as a last resort, try to at least make an arguement for a free extended warranty for 3-4 years. Run it under warranty and get out of it as soon as the numbers make sense to do so.

tnmtn
11-18-2012, 05:35 PM
Does your dealer handle any other lines of equipment?

BrandonV
11-18-2012, 09:49 PM
as you may know this Ford did the same thing to me with our LCF switch-n-go truck. the big manufactures are so scared to death to help anyone out because the higher ups want every unit's bottom line to look good and fixing/replacing units that are already sold doesn't help that. the best thing you can do is raise as big a stink as possible (contact your tv station etc) and honestly telling us on lawnsite and other boards (since we all are very likely to let this lack of service sway us on future purchases)

jbailey52
12-03-2012, 06:25 PM
Hey everyone,
So we are a month since the initial post and I figured you guys should know the turnout of this situation, since this thread has over 11,000 views.
Well briefly speaking with the JCB representative Bob from Maryland a few weeks back, he took my info and problems and said he would talk to management and would get back to me. That has not happened. I then asked my dealer to have him contact me, since I did not get his direct contact when we spoke. My dealer Contacted him and said he was on a week vacation (2 weeks ago) but would get a hold of me in the next couple days. ( it has been 12 days since that email). I guess it is important to know how you are treated after the sale. I do feel the dealer has helped me out... i.e. giving me machines to use while mine was being towed away and repaired, but I feel the manufacturer could not care less about a small company who bought one machine. I do think they are missing the scope of my concerns reaching the purchasing public on here.

I hope this whole ordeal benefits someone on here.

ksss
12-03-2012, 08:41 PM
Well I guess JCB is proving me wrong. I really thought they would step up. Maybe try a different point of contact at JCB.

tnmtn
12-03-2012, 11:59 PM
their website has been deleted from my favorites list. also, will no longer mention their machines when discussing tlb's. the 2cx was one I was considering for replacing the bobcat. don't they use lucas electronics? lol

Digdeep
12-04-2012, 12:21 AM
Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully you have a positive outcome.

I would have figured they would have stepped up to the plate given their newfound stated concentration on the North American SSL market.

ksss
12-04-2012, 01:07 AM
Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully you have a positive outcome.

I would have figured they would have stepped up to the plate given their newfound stated concentration on the North American SSL market.

That was the basis for my optimism as well.

AWJ Services
12-04-2012, 07:27 AM
I would now start a thread on several forums with JCB in the title so that Google and the other search engines will properly find it so that it will show up in searches. Right now it is just a blip on the radar.

Digdeep
12-04-2012, 10:25 AM
That was the basis for my optimism as well.

I guess its hard to change a leopard's spots.

ksss
12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
I would now start a thread on several forums with JCB in the title so that Google and the other search engines will properly find it so that it will show up in searches. Right now it is just a blip on the radar.


Yea I would dial up the pressure.

NEUSWEDE
12-04-2012, 01:11 PM
Like the saying goes, squeaky wheel gets the grease. I would call them every day talk to whoever and annoy the crap out of them. Hassle them enough online and to their face and things will get done. Definitely surprised that jcb blew you off like that, I have never been a fan but have a friend whose much larger company was looking to get away from cat and go to jcb I guess I will have to give him a call before he makes a big mistake.
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nepatsfan
12-04-2012, 02:26 PM
I was actually looking at a JCB backhoe. Not anymore!

AEL
12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
Doesn't jcb stand for junk coming from Britain?
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nepatsfan
12-04-2012, 05:49 PM
EDIT- I had another acronym that I thought better of leaving. Pretty common around here. I'll give the last two. Contractors Backhoe. The first one I'm not gonna say but they are known to be cheap

jbailey52
12-04-2012, 09:33 PM
Yea its a real shame. I feel like I have a constant knot in my stomach anytime I think about it. Spent a lot of money on this machine, and it has me thinking its going to cost me tons more, that it shouldnt. I hate feeling taken advantage of.

ksss
12-05-2012, 01:50 AM
Yea its a real shame. I feel like I have a constant knot in my stomach anytime I think about it. Spent a lot of money on this machine, and it has me thinking its going to cost me tons more, that it shouldnt. I hate feeling taken advantage of.


You might want to take the machine to a competetive dealer and see how bad it would hurt to trade it out. If its still under warranty, that would be appealing to a salesman selling it. It might be good information to have. Taking your asskicking now might be better than a much more painful asskicking later.

alco
12-05-2012, 03:25 AM
I'm really sorry to hear they're not helping you out on this. I have been looking into micro excavators recently, and JCB was in the running due to there being a dealer in town. Not any more!

Now, before anybody jumps on me for this, let me state up front that it's meant jokingly, but..........have you got fire insurance on that thing?

BrandonV
12-05-2012, 10:33 AM
Let me ask is the JCB also the Volvo machine? I like the look of both (door mostly) but if JCB is building the Volvo it doesn't bode we'll for either make.
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Digdeep
12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
Let me ask is the JCB also the Volvo machine? I like the look of both (door mostly) but if JCB is building the Volvo it doesn't bode we'll for either make.
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Yes. Same machines. While the issues with the machines may be the same, the way that Volvo handles a machine/customer concern may be 100% different than the way JCB handles it.

Volvo is just buying the machines from JCB and can most likely handle warranty and product support for their machines as they see fit.

Digdeep
12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
Doesn't jcb stand for junk coming from Britain?
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That was one term, but their skids and CTLs are built in Georgia, and these new machines were supposedly designed from the ground up with the US market in mind.

Mark Oomkes
12-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Ddin't read the whole thread, but I have a JCB 212SU that has been an outstanding machine. Used almost exclusively for plowing, I have lost maybe 3 hours of plowing time in 15 years.

Digdeep
12-05-2012, 02:29 PM
Ddin't read the whole thread, but I have a JCB 212SU that has been an outstanding machine. Used almost exclusively for plowing, I have lost maybe 3 hours of plowing time in 15 years.

I might be mistaken, but weren't those Massy-Ferguson designed and JCB branded, or joint developed?

Mark Oomkes
12-05-2012, 02:36 PM
No idea, they were built in England though. Perkins diesel. PITA when it comes to hydraulic hoses because they use some stupid exclusive fittings from England, not pipe thread or JIC or whatever. Morons.

Digdeep
12-05-2012, 04:21 PM
No idea, they were built in England though. Perkins diesel. PITA when it comes to hydraulic hoses because they use some stupid exclusive fittings from England, not pipe thread or JIC or whatever. Morons.

Yeah, their skid steer fittings were the same until they started building them in the US.