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zedosix
12-04-2012, 10:03 PM
I show up for an estimate today right on time and I see another contractor is speaking with the client. I have 2 clients to see, one at 11 the other just after. Back patio front walkway etc.. I decide to drive on and I'll check it out a bit later, I go do a few chores and drive by, around 1/2 hour later, still there, one hour later, guy is still there!! Forget it, I'm gone, don't need the hassle.

Get back to the office and I have a call waiting, its the guy who was supposed to meet me at 11. Says "where were you, we had an apointment and you didn't show" !!! . Seems like he thought nothing of it too have two estimaters there at the same time. Unbelievable. What's wrong with people these days? Anyhow I'm meeting him tomorrow and I'll fill him in on proper protocol while I'm there. Worst of this is that he had one of my competitors do some work there this year and its great. I'm hoping 2013 is not going to start like this!

Just had to get it off my shoulders! :)

alldayrj
12-04-2012, 10:10 PM
I wouldn't give him the time of day tomorrow. I know your business is levels beyond mine but we all have principles. To me it sounds pretty certain you wont get the job and he just needs your price for the bargaining against the other guys. If you go, GO HIGH. And bring us back stories
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zedosix
12-04-2012, 10:24 PM
I wouldn't give him the time of day tomorrow. I know your business is levels beyond mine but we all have principles. To me it sounds pretty certain you wont get the job and he just needs your price for the bargaining against the other guys. If you go, GO HIGH. And bring us back stories
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He asked me how long it would take to do the quote, that he has a sketch already, wtf. Does he think that I'm going to give him a price while I'm there. I'm going to confuse the #$$# out of him tomorrow. He won't know what to think when I'm done:laugh:

DVS Hardscaper
12-04-2012, 10:57 PM
I show up for an estimate today right on time and I see another contractor is speaking with the client. I have 2 clients to see, one at 11 the other just after. Back patio front walkway etc.. I decide to drive on and I'll check it out a bit later, I go do a few chores and drive by, around 1/2 hour later, still there, one hour later, guy is still there!! Forget it, I'm gone, don't need the hassle.

Get back to the office and I have a call waiting, its the guy who was supposed to meet me at 11. Says "where were you, we had an apointment and you didn't show" !!! . Seems like he thought nothing of it too have two estimaters there at the same time. Unbelievable. What's wrong with people these days? Anyhow I'm meeting him tomorrow and I'll fill him in on proper protocol while I'm there. Worst of this is that he had one of my competitors do some work there this year and its great. I'm hoping 2013 is not going to start like this!

Just had to get it off my shoulders! :)

I totally feel your pain. I hate stupid people and have no place for idiots in my business or my life.

My patience has gotten shorter with prospective clients. It's like people have no respect for other people's time.

If it was me - I doubt I would return. Your time was already wasted. Once one's blood boils - everything ended right there.

This past spring I had a guy ask me how long it would take to get the quote when he scheduled the appointment on the phone. Then when I met with him he asked again how long for the quote and wanted it the next day. I said "sir, it's already 6:30 pm, the day is over, you'll have the quote by Friday". 15 hours later he's calling me to see if I have the quote ready. Welp, that took care of that, I wasn't giving him a quote, he can take his prospective job and shove it up his tail.


I had a guy call me a few weeks ago for a patio estimate. Referred to me by a supplier. We're an hr north of DC. The guy says to me "I work in DC and don't get home until 8". Ok, well it normally takes an hr for me to meet with people and go over everything, so I would get out of there at 9. Thats PM. And another 35 - 40 minutes to get home. It could very well have been the job of the century. This guy could be someone who knows everyone on his block and could be a good referral for us to his neighbors. Oh well, life goes on, I have better things to do than chase after work at 8:30 at night.

zedosix
12-04-2012, 11:12 PM
Usually I would of closed the door on this one already, but since its real close to my shop I'm going to meet him tomorrow. If I see a sketch from any of my competitors I'm going to ask him if he thinks we do this for fun, I'm going to say "how many hours of work do you think this guy has in that plan, not to mention the driving time, wasted fuel etc) Like you Andrew, patience runs thin as I get older, weird thing is though I'm kinda lookin forward to meeting this guy. hahaha

alldayrj
12-04-2012, 11:20 PM
If I feel like this at 23, I'm curious how I'm going to feel at 40 lol. Do it for the story man!
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zedosix
12-04-2012, 11:52 PM
If I feel like this at 23, I'm curious how I'm going to feel at 40 lol. Do it for the story man!
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Its not so bad really, I started doing interlock installs when I was your age and I just turned 51. I have alot of stories to tell but usually I keep them to myself. This time I just wanted to vent, its not all bad.

DVS Hardscaper
12-05-2012, 12:11 AM
If I feel like this at 23, I'm curious how I'm going to feel at 40 lol. Do it for the story man!
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Your mentality really changes when you have kids. No so much when they're infants or toddlers, but more as they get older and active and you have to drive them places and be there for them and partake in activities with them. You cherish every moment with your kids and when you have a problem client or problem prospective client you think to yourself "screw this, I need to get home".

PaperCutter
12-05-2012, 11:11 AM
Kids, nothing. I don't have kids but I realized that if I don't value my time no one else will.

At least you didn't look at the other contractor and say "oh cool, they must have dropped the charges, huh?"

dKoester
12-05-2012, 12:42 PM
I've had this happen before. They want you to get in a bidding war against the others.

zedosix
12-05-2012, 01:14 PM
Won't happen
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DVS Hardscaper
12-05-2012, 07:18 PM
What "won't happen" - the job or the bidding war?
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zedosix
12-05-2012, 07:57 PM
What "won't happen" - the job or the bidding war?
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The bidding war won't happen, with me or with the guy who did his front entrance already. I actually called him up (my contractor friend) and told him the story, he was totally pissed which I could understand, in fact this is what is happening in our area lately, too many newbie contractors who have 1 or 2 yrs under their belt are lowballing the guys who have been in business for over 25yrs. Its a major pita lately, really just makes me sick how people think we have nothing better to do than draw up plans and deliver them to their doors with a quote and then they ask Joe blow contractor for a price using that very plan. I can smell these guys even before meeting them. Anyway....

I met with the two of them briefly and separately this aft on my schedule. Kindly told both that having two contractors show at the same time was taboo. I didn't get into it more than that, since they already knew why I didn't show yesterday. I'm going to price both of them out of the park, I'm not interested in it at all. Neither one will get a plan they will only get a few words by email with a brief outline of pricing. Case closed.

On a good note though earlier in the day I did pick up a nice job for spring. :)

PaperCutter
12-05-2012, 08:24 PM
So, I take it providing a free design is standard in your market?

P.L.
12-05-2012, 08:34 PM
I had a guy the other day who had been referred to me earlier that day and happened to be in the same spot where I eat lunch sit down with me while I was eating lunch. He preceded to tell me about a house he was going to buy on the beach and the work that he would like to have don, he even went so far as to draw up a diagram. He wanted me to go buy and give him a quote. With little to no intentions of doing so I said I would try to stop buy and give him some ideas if I got a chance. At the end of the conversation, after he ruined my lunch (which i usually a high point during the day) I asked him when he was closing on the house. He then informed me that he was going to put a bid in later on that week. At that point I decided that I definitely was not waisting my time even looking at the house. Yesterday He called to inform me that he did not get the house because it was sold at full asking price and even though he was sure he would get the house his low-ball bid did not add up. He apologized for any time that I had spent and said he would call me if they purchased a house. I do commend the fact that he even called me back about not getting the house, but all and all he had no regard for my time. In the past I would have jumped at a lead like that now he lost me as soon as he disturbed me during my lunch.

zedosix
12-05-2012, 08:40 PM
So, I take it providing a free design is standard in your market?

Yes and no, depends on what has to be done, if its just for hardscape then mostly and unfortuneatly no charge, if softscape is involved then yes, there is a consultation and design fee.
I work best with a too scale 2d design draft from which I can make my material list thereby giving an accurate cost of the project. I'll show up with the plan but no longer leave it with them, unless they are very good and reliable customers of mine from past. All new quotes come with a design,then a meeting, sort of a "show and tell", and it leaves with me.
In the past I have left the design with people, I've spent countless hours preparing plans for people with no interest but to save a dime. Not happening anymore, I'd rather be having a cold one with my feet up at the cottage.

DVS Hardscaper
12-05-2012, 09:08 PM
...... too many newbie contractors who have 1 or 2 yrs under their belt are lowballing the guys who have been in business for over 25yrs. Its a major pita lately, really just makes me sick how people think we have nothing better to do than draw up plans and deliver them to their doors with a quote......

That is what happened in my neck of the woods. The area flooded with so called "hardscape contractors" all working with rates they were going rates for me in 2002. Hence the reason why hardscapes now accounts for only about 30% of my sales. And I have written on this forum at least twice that if it hasn't happened in other's areas - to start preparing because it WILL sooner or later.

zedosix
12-05-2012, 09:28 PM
Well its happening and at a faster rate than expected, its turning the industry around. I can tell you what we are doing now more than ever and its repair work, I must get 20 or more calls a year doing repairs. Its huge and quite profitable I have to say.

PaperCutter
12-05-2012, 09:39 PM
I feel your pain re: the free design work. I'm currently working on making a pool and an outdoor kitchen work in an incredibly tight urban lot. Back when I lived in AZ I would have been stuck designing this for free, because that was what the market dictated. I sold a lot of work but it wasn't worth the hours. At least now, I don't put pencil to paper without a signed contract and a check.

zedosix
12-05-2012, 09:47 PM
I feel your pain re: the free design work. I'm currently working on making a pool and an outdoor kitchen work in an incredibly tight urban lot. Back when I lived in AZ I would have been stuck designing this for free, because that was what the market dictated. I sold a lot of work but it wasn't worth the hours. At least now, I don't put pencil to paper without a signed contract and a check.

But you must be dedicating some amount of time to these customers, people just don't write cheques based on the assumption you're going to give them what they want.

DVS Hardscaper
12-05-2012, 10:03 PM
Bidding War. Thats where my thread titled 'Repeat Customers - Double Edged Sword' derived.

The client more or less launched a bidding war between me and one other contractor for Phase I. I went along with it. But I was able to play into it because I'm the sole owner of my company and the other company is owned by two individuals, meaning too many hands in the pot.

Now the people are ready for Phase II. The guy told me he was going to have to get "other bids" and he said it in a way as if he expected me to suddenly drop my price. I'm very interested in doing the work and I hope we will end up doing it. But I already priced the work at rock bottom from the get-go, even if it was for my own parents I could not lower it anymore.

I have yet to hear back from this customer as far as yay or nay. I might do one follow up call, but I'm not gonna battle with anyone to get the work. I've already proven myself to these people with Phase I. If someone else does Phase II and if there is a problem with Phase I years or months down the road - it's going to turn into a finger pointing fiasco and end up infront of a judge. The home owner will sacrafice quality to save $1800.00 but they'll end up spending 10 G's taking the contractors to court if there's a problem. But you can't get a home owner to realize that.

Thats what the industry has become, contractors working for cheap.

PaperCutter
12-05-2012, 11:30 PM
But you must be dedicating some amount of time to these customers, people just don't write cheques based on the assumption you're going to give them what they want.

Typically, the initial consultation is free, unless they're outside my geographic area or I get the sense that all they're after is a free hour with a designer. During that time we walk the site, talk about the issues, what they want to do, and go through my portfolio. I then go back and work up what I expect the design to take me and send them a design proposal (flat fee) that outlines scope of work, deliverables, and timeframe. If they send me the signed contract and the deposit check, I schedule a time to go out and measure. If not, I send them a thank you card and move on to the next one.

I have had a couple here and there who expect me (and typically 3-4 other designers) to measure and basemap everything, then submit "a concept sketch that's all I need, shouldn't take you more than a couple minutes, just so I can be sure we're on the same page." Yeah, no. It doesn't work that way.

zedosix
12-05-2012, 11:46 PM
Typically, the initial consultation is free, unless they're outside my geographic area or I get the sense that all they're after is a free hour with a designer. During that time we walk the site, talk about the issues, what they want to do, and go through my portfolio. I then go back and work up what I expect the design to take me and send them a design proposal (flat fee) that outlines scope of work, deliverables, and timeframe. If they send me the signed contract and the deposit check, I schedule a time to go out and measure. If not, I send them a thank you card and move on to the next one.

If you haven't yet measured the job then how were you able to get them to sign a contract? I'm assuming that you can't give a price until the measurements are taken.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but in my case I must do all field measurements and a rough draft before being able to give a rough quote. If I get a positive response I'll take it to the next level and meet up with them. Second time around I'm prepared with a written contract. Its what we are used to and we find what works best. Your way or my way, end results are the same.

PaperCutter
12-05-2012, 11:58 PM
The contract is just for the design work to start. Because I'm design only, I make darn sure I've accounted for everything in my proposal. I've done enough projects at this point that I can get them in the ballpark for what the job will cost (the screen porch $30-40k, patio $20-25k, plantings $10k, etc) so we at least know if what they want designed is realistic for their budget. My design fees run anywhere from $400-500 to $3000-4000, depending on what we're designing.

When I worked for a design-build, we mostly did a flat rate design fee. Everything was $700 for the design, unless there were a lot of grading or framing issues, in which case it was $1200.

MDLawn
12-06-2012, 12:44 PM
When I first got into the business on my own 6 years ago I had a similar situation arise although I should've seen it coming based on where the people lived. I show up at the requested time and there was another person/contractor/not sure what there in his string tank top taking measurements with his worker/business partner (first bad sign of it not being worth my time). I sat around the corner for 30 minutes and finally talked with the guy. Then the walk around started like this "I need these wall bricks from (name any big box store)." Second bad sign. Even just starting out on my own I knew that was no good. The yard was a complete mess and needed a complete redo. I asked about a budget, then they said "Well what do you think?" Hearing that I shot some ridiculous number off the top of my head. I knew it was over then... But still showing up and some other guy is also just showing up??? I feel the annoyance....

Eventhough I'm still relatively new to this industry I even feel the same way with any of the work. I know hardscaping has more planning and executing than mulch, sod, trimming, etc... but it's still tough work and like was already said doing it for prices less than when I worked for a friend of mine 11 years ago! Really a shame....

DVS Hardscaper
12-06-2012, 01:01 PM
I have been on estimates once or twice where there was another contractor there. It's very uncomfortable because a savvy contractor is going to hold back on realling selling hinself. Yet on the other hand it gives you an opportunity to see how others think.

MDLawn
12-06-2012, 01:18 PM
I think the main thing is it's just uncomfortable and awkward. I know as soon as I left that one estimate another truck pulled up. But at least it was after! I thought about parking my truck, which had signs on it and theirs did not, right next to the property and just wait staring at the property. Put the pressure on a little. Buuuutt I was soft and parked around the corner.....

But this year I had an estimate for sod installation (2500sq ft) and landscaping around a newly installed pool. The customer chose me and because I'm newer I asked why (just as a way to gauge my selling and pricing). Now yes she can lie all she wants but she did say that I was much more informative, listened better, talked about different ideas and ways of doing things, and we were all similar priced. Again she said that so take it as you may truth or not. I'm a talker and I like to sell I guess and now she wants me to do the landscaping in the front of the house. $2500 budget so nothing remotely fancy. So two contractors on site is just bad for me.

zedosix
12-06-2012, 07:44 PM
I priced myself out of the job, quoted roughly 26 per sq.ft. for front and back yard. I feel that its better than having to deal with a price war. You see he doesn't know who I am, or the other two guys, I'm just another name in the book even though it came from his neighbour, he still regards me as a means to base his decision. Now I just made it easier for him.

alldayrj
12-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Wait til he tells the other guys your price. Then everyones head will be spinning!! So you did the price on the spot?
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zedosix
12-06-2012, 08:14 PM
Same as usual .... Take it to dynascape 15 20ins later I have quantities then email a price
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scagrider22
12-06-2012, 11:07 PM
Same as usual .... Take it to dynascape 15 20ins later I have quantities then email a price
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How do you like Dynascape, is it easy to learn? Do you need CAD experiece, which dynascape program do you have?

zedosix
12-06-2012, 11:38 PM
How do you like Dynascape, is it easy to learn? Do you need CAD experiece, which dynascape program do you have?

Well think about it, you take measurements home, or to the office, you pull out the 11x17 drafting paper, and now you start with a ruler and pencil, marking out the perimeter of the house, then you take the plastic templates and draw the squiggly line to mimic the edge of the walkway and flowerbed, but wait a minute its not quite right, so a little bit of whiteout ok maybe alot of whiteout and that line is fixed. Oh damn spilled a bit of coffee on it, start over..... hahaha I remember those days well.

Ya I love it, for more than that, its a complete tool, measures and makes it a breeze to calculate materials. As long as you follow those measurements and your original measurements are accurate there is hardly a brick left over at times. Clients love it as well, but now I'm real selective about who I leave a plan with.

I had no computer experience when I started dynascape in '99 now its like putting a pen in hand.. only quicker. Here is an example of one drawing and then the real thing. Trees were just planted and next year its a gazebo and shrubery.

alldayrj
12-06-2012, 11:49 PM
What does that one cost? I started using realtime landscaper pro (100 bucks) and you can also input costs and get instant updates with changes in design. I brought my laptop to an estimate today with a little predone drawing. We changed some curves and it put the price up a couple hundred. Changed it back real quick lol. But i can see how this thing (when accurate) can be an incredible sales tool. Facing a dilemma, she wants me to send her a screen shot :(. I hope its just to show her husband and not a competitor but at this point in my business i can't really afford not to.
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zedosix
12-07-2012, 12:03 AM
Sending a screen shot may as well be the drawing, but sometimes you just have too trust people! I think I paid close too 3500 but it included a 3 day course
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AztlanLC
12-07-2012, 04:14 AM
Can u send me a screen shot?
Sure as soon as I receive the check for the deposit or if u write it now I can email it right now. That is my answer all the time.

zedosix
12-07-2012, 08:04 AM
Can u send me a screen shot?
Sure as soon as I receive the check for the deposit or if u write it now I can email it right now. That is my answer all the time.

This is hard to tell someone who you've worked for in the past, but that was the past and now its only a select few who I send a screen shot.
Most people want to believe that they will be getting the same work, one contractor whom they know is good and reliable they are comparing to a new kid on the block and they want to believe so much that they are getting the same thing but for thousands less.

A guy I know from karate asked me for a quote, I didn't even want to bother with it but I told him I'd go check it out. He had a patio done about 2 yrs earlier that he wanted me to extend and then another small patio where he could set a small bar. The existing patio was done so poorly so I recommended we remove it and redo the cutting as well, I mean there were 2" gaps between the soldier on the sharp curves and the cuts were literally pathetic. I didn't go on about it except to say with our attention to detail the two patios would clash. Long story short, he got someone else I never even heard of at almost exactly half price, his words to me were "why would I pay you x amount if I can get the same thing for half the price". Didn't bother me in the least.
Funny part is he is a "friend" on facebook and he was showing off the patio from start to finish. This job I had accounted 2 days 3 men maximum. It took this company one week with 4 men and they made a mess of it. At one point they recommended that he remove the old patio because the base wasn't any good, so they had to charge him more for it, then they reinstalled the brick but parts of it were upside down. #%@%hilarious to say the least. You see if this company had any real hardscape time under their belt they would of know that even though you can lay some brick (brussels block) both sides, if the stone is sitting on stone dust for more than a year or so it takes on a very dull whitish color that is highly noticeable when installed "upside down". Just hilarious really, #%#^# hilarious.

MDLawn
12-07-2012, 08:26 AM
"why would I pay you x amount if I can get the same thing for half the price".

This is the problem right now with a lot of industries. It's truly NOT the same thing but some people just don't know and others I think don't care. I did some landscape maintenance for a friends parents and his dad was asking me about fixing his paver walkway. The pavers were just laid in straight lines next to each other, just like how the come on a pallet, and was as wavy as a lake on a windy day. I told him I wasn't doing hardscapes yet but could imagine it would be quite expensive to repair. I even pointed out the faults listed above. He wasnt shy about telling me he paid very little for it and almost seemed proud of that fact. Just like the person who wants a BWM and buys a rusted early 90's one. BWM? Well sure but not in the sense most would think.
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Darryl G
12-07-2012, 10:42 AM
If he had told you it was a pre-bid meeting up front I think that would have been fine. In many businessess it's not uncommon for the customer to have a pre-bid meeting with all of the potential contractors there to present the scope of work and have a question and answer session. Competitive bids are a fact of life and getting at least 3 bids is SOP for many.

DVS Hardscaper
12-07-2012, 11:03 AM
If he had told you it was a pre-bid meeting up front I think that would have been fine. In many businessess it's not uncommon for the customer to have a pre-bid meeting with all of the potential contractors there to present the scope of work and have a question and answer session. Competitive bids are a fact of life and getting at least 3 bids is SOP for many.


Darryl, which post are you responding to? You didn't quote it.

Never heard of a "prebid meeting" in the residential world. Most residential contractors don't even fool with "bidding". We submit a proposal with intentions of turning out a top notch product and leaving with a profit. In the commercial world they have "prebid meetings" and yes, they "bid". And the margins are much much smaller. Usually the quality is not there.

Just curious which post you're referencing?

zedosix
12-07-2012, 11:19 AM
A per-bid meeting or whatever you want to call it is only about one criteria and that is finding the lowest priced contractor.. I would not likely so well in that situation, I offer a specific level of quality and detail that cannot be offered at a discount. Those situations are typical of government or commercial work projects, yet some homeowners believe they can do the same. In the end these guys are the hardest to please.
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alldayrj
12-07-2012, 11:23 AM
I love when homeowners brag about how much they saved on other projects, at least I'm entertained while i waste my time. " the drieway was done by johnnys uncle for 2grand, the stoop by his brother for free, the patio guys i paid cash and they did it for 5k". I love it. Its the best
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DVS Hardscaper
12-07-2012, 11:49 AM
I love when homeowners brag about how much they saved on other projects, at least I'm entertained while i waste my time. " the drieway was done by johnnys uncle for 2grand, the stoop by his brother for free, the patio guys i paid cash and they did it for 5k". I love it. Its the best
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So I have a business aquaintance whom wanted a paver walk last winter. I go to his house to get measurements and I notice a horrible asphalt paving job and I notice the driveway allignment is all out of whack. I kept my thought to myself and had forgotten all about it.

I call the guy a couple days later with the pricing. We are buddies so I priced it at rock bottom from the get go.

He says "I have x dollars to spend on this, if you don't want to do it for this I understand".

So I try to explain that his budget is just not realistic and that we had left over pavers that I am supplying for free and that he's already getting a deal.

He says to me "I work with contractors for projects at my house routinely, I know what I'm doing".

I almost fell over in my chair because as soon as he said that it reminded me of his piss poor driveway job I saw!


.

MDLawn
12-07-2012, 11:49 AM
I offer a specific level of quality and detail that cannot be offered at a discount.

I hope there are still people out there who want this.........

PaperCutter
12-07-2012, 12:13 PM
If he had told you it was a pre-bid meeting up front I think that would have been fine. In many businessess it's not uncommon for the customer to have a pre-bid meeting with all of the potential contractors there to present the scope of work and have a question and answer session. Competitive bids are a fact of life and getting at least 3 bids is SOP for many.

I get this occasionally from prospects who are in some sort of a purchasing position for the govt or a big company. Low-level staff architects and engineers for commercial firms can be as bad, too. I did a design for an architect who also wanted me to coordinate the install. After getting pricing nailed down and everything set he comes back with "ok, I was able to get these trees at discount here, the boulders were cheaper here so they're being delivered tomorrow, half the shrubs will need to come from here..." Dude, I'm cooking, GTFO of my kitchen. That's one I was happy to walk away from. I went by six months later and the yard was still torn up.

Bottom line, the approach that works in the commercial world isn't directly applicable to custom residential. Your $15k front yard doesn't hold the same sway as a $400k school complex.

Darryl G
12-07-2012, 12:21 PM
Darryl, which post are you responding to? You didn't quote it.

Never heard of a "prebid meeting" in the residential world. Most residential contractors don't even fool with "bidding". We submit a proposal with intentions of turning out a top notch product and leaving with a profit. In the commercial world they have "prebid meetings" and yes, they "bid". And the margins are much much smaller. Usually the quality is not there.

Just curious which post you're referencing?

Sorry...was kind of responding to the OPs orignial post and replies in general I guess. I agree that in the residential world a pre-bid meeting with multiple contractors is not the norm. But I could see a homeowner who thinks he's "important" and has limited time to have more than one contractor there at the same time. Everyone knows that pencils get sharper when there's competition involved. It's hard to be yourself in a situation like that though.

If the homeowner made it clear up front that there would other contractors and that it was a competitive bid situation it would be different than showing up and finding another contractor there. A homeowner who sents everything to bid and shows no loyalty and desire to build a relationship probably isn't the best prospect....as others have mentioned...it all comes down to the lowest bid with them.

DVS Hardscaper
12-07-2012, 02:08 PM
...... A homeowner who sents everything to bid and shows no loyalty and desire to build a relationship probably isn't the best prospect....as others have mentioned...it all comes down to the lowest bid with them.

Well Said!

alldayrj
12-07-2012, 02:11 PM
Haha lets not get rolling on low level archies who know they can get it done for 9/sf. The next can if worms is insurance adjusters over here. Tree uproots half a driveway eith no expansion or control joints and wants me to replace 417 sf only...
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Gilmore.Landscaping
12-08-2012, 09:06 PM
Well think about it, you take measurements home, or to the office, you pull out the 11x17 drafting paper, and now you start with a ruler and pencil, marking out the perimeter of the house, then you take the plastic templates and draw the squiggly line to mimic the edge of the walkway and flowerbed, but wait a minute its not quite right, so a little bit of whiteout ok maybe alot of whiteout and that line is fixed. Oh damn spilled a bit of coffee on it, start over..... hahaha I remember those days well.

Ya I love it, for more than that, its a complete tool, measures and makes it a breeze to calculate materials. As long as you follow those measurements and your original measurements are accurate there is hardly a brick left over at times. Clients love it as well, but now I'm real selective about who I leave a plan with.

I had no computer experience when I started dynascape in '99 now its like putting a pen in hand.. only quicker. Here is an example of one drawing and then the real thing. Trees were just planted and next year its a gazebo and shrubery.

Love dynascape, do you use the Quotescape side of it as well? Have you ever done a Color Drawings from it?

zedosix
12-09-2012, 11:57 PM
I haven't used quotescapes never really took the time to figure it out. I have the basic system, colour drawings won't help me or my business at this point in my career
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