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Mike M
12-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Who are the key manu's of spec-grade retrofit LED bulbs available on the market?

Like Tim said on another thread, it's like starting all over again. I was annoyed at some retro bulbs I bought this summer from my distributor that did not include much on specs or recommended info on voltage range for installation. I didn't see optimal voltage or even a safe range in the paperwork. I'm certain it most likely matters, and that is going to be different from one LED manu to another, as the electronics, drivers, and assembly components are very different from manu to manu.

Thanks :)

Illumicare
12-08-2012, 05:57 PM
Hi Mike,
You are correct. It is important to have all the pertinent information, when making any buying decision. We at Illumicare Group have always believed in providing you the information needed to make an informed decision, and a beautiful design. Please see our website http://www.illumicaregroup.com/resources/downloads/
All of our specs, including photometrics, and spectral analysis reports are available for download. If you require any other information, please feel free to contact me, I'd be happy to answer any additional questions.

Thanks,

John Higo

S&MLL
12-08-2012, 11:35 PM
John.how.do your retros do with "dirty" power. Any problem with transients emitting noise out of your drivers
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Illumicare
12-08-2012, 11:47 PM
John.how.do your retros do with "dirty" power. Any problem with transients emitting noise out of your drivers
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Hi Matthew,
Yes, there have been a couple of cases of noise or humming from some of our lamps. I believe on of them was your job just over a year ago. As I recall it was a peculiar case, limited to one specific transformer, on a large condo project? The other case was a crappy big box store transformer.
We have since made some improvements in our drivers, and I have not heard of any problems recently.

John Higo

S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:06 AM
Well it was on 4 transformers. Mdls-jeffersons-even buck and boost acmes. After multiple investigations by power company and numerous transient deterrent devices still no resolution. One day i would like to fix the issue. Would new retro lamps do the trick...... the humming noise kills me and the 45 plus homeowners
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S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:08 AM
I also am to lazy to check your specs. What is lumen output for 3000k vs 2700k mini lamps?
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Illumicare
12-09-2012, 12:14 AM
Well it was on 4 transformers. Mdls-jeffersons-even buck and boost acmes. After multiple investigations by power company and numerous transient deterrent devices still no resolution. One day i would like to fix the issue. Would new retro lamps do the trick...... the humming noise kills me and the 45 plus homeowners
Posted via Mobile Device

Hi Matthew,
I just emailed you. I would like to help you solve this.

John Higo

S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:18 AM
Thanks i i just got it. Didnt reply to make it public. But thanks. Would like a response to lumen output for your new 2700k lamps vs 3000k minis
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Irrigation Contractor
12-09-2012, 12:25 AM
The Buck Boost transformers is where you need to start looking and it probably will end there.

S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:27 AM
That came out wrong. I didnt post on this topic to make "our" issue public. I posted to see a response to an issue that might or might not be public. But thank you for emailing me. Still wanna know where my plaque is? Hahah
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S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:32 AM
The Buck Boost transformers is where you need to start looking and it probably will end there.

Although i appreciate your attempt to assert your professional wisdom a buck boost was used as a troubleshooting method.
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S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:34 AM
As a professional lighting contractor i would never spec a buck and boost transformer on one of my installs
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Illumicare
12-09-2012, 12:44 AM
Thanks for asking! When we launched our 2700K miniatures, we began using a new LED chip. This allowed us to increase lumen output, and lower consumption, making the lamps up to 25% more efficient.

The 2700K miniatures are at least as bright as the original 3000K miniatures.
SCB 255 lm
G4 195 lm
T5 220 lm
G5.3 230lm
S8 260 lm
All data can be downloaded from our website also.
http://www.illumicaregroup.com/downloads/Illumicare%20Miniature%202700K%20Sheet%20112012.pdf

Thanks,
John Higo

S&MLL
12-09-2012, 12:50 AM
What were the 3000k scb's circa 2011?
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Illumicare
12-09-2012, 01:07 AM
What were the 3000k scb's circa 2011?
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Average 220lm

John Higo

S&MLL
12-09-2012, 01:13 AM
Thank you. Will be nice to spec 2700k minis and get similar output(minus humming) haha jk.john
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steveparrott
12-09-2012, 06:36 PM
Re: humming LED's. Our tests found that some LED circuits emit an audible hum when used with an inefficient EI Laminated Type transformer. The more LED's on a line - the louder the hum, sometimes accompanied by flickering.

When you use an osciliscope to look at the current of humming LED's, you see huge voltage spikes - some of them high enough to exceed acceptable voltage limits. A humming or flickering LED is bound to fail long before its predicted life.

This is why we discontinued our 2 transformers that had EI cores and replaced them with toroids. Well-constructed toroidal transformers never produce this problem.

S&MLL
12-09-2012, 06:58 PM
Re: humming LED's. Our tests found that some LED circuits emit an audible hum when used with an inefficient EI Laminated Type transformer. The more LED's on a line - the louder the hum, sometimes accompanied by flickering.

When you use an osciliscope to look at the current of humming LED's, you see huge voltage spikes - some of them high enough to exceed acceptable voltage limits. A humming or flickering LED is bound to fail long before its predicted life.

This is why we discontinued our 2 transformers that had EI cores and replaced them with toroids. Well-constructed toroidal transformers never produce this problem.


Funny that under generator power there was never a hum. Btw your mdl transformer hummed just as bad on this same system as any other transformer i tried

Mike M
12-19-2012, 11:42 PM
Do manu's include optimal voltage range at the bulb? I didn't see anything included with the ones I purchased.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-20-2012, 03:22 PM
Mike, before buying any LED lamp or fixture you should be getting all of the specifications. It the manufacture is not providing them, then you have to ask why.

Lumen Output
CCT
CRI
L70
Efficacy (Lm/W)

These are the bare minimum of specifications I would want to see before even sampling.

starry night
12-21-2012, 07:45 PM
Do manu's include optimal voltage range at the bulb? I didn't see anything included with the ones I purchased.

Mike, I asked your question last June. See here http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=381114&highlight=optimum+voltage+LEDs.

Mike M
01-26-2013, 11:34 AM
Thanks, Phil, I checked your thread.

Research on LED's and drivers is much more complicated than halogens.

Mike

Mike M
01-26-2013, 12:07 PM
So, back to my question, which manu's are considered to be the "key" leaders of LED products for outdoor applications?

starry night
01-27-2013, 12:03 AM
So, back to my question, which manu's are considered to be the "key" leaders of LED products for outdoor applications?

Without getting involved in the argument of what constitutes a "manufacturer":

Trying to speak for the consensus from earlier discussions on this forum, here are the leading "providers":
Illumicare and Brilliance for retrofits;
maybe Unique, too, although I have only noticed their slick advertising but haven't heard any feedback from anyone using their LEDs.

Cast and Kichler for integrated LED fixtures.

Mike M
01-29-2013, 10:10 AM
Thank you, Phil!

What about Toshiba, Ushio, Philips, etc., for MR-16 retro's?

I'm searching the internet for reviews but this is not as easy as it sounds.

I went with Toshiba's for a job last year and they look very good.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-29-2013, 07:15 PM
Mike, you have to ensure that LED lamps used in landscape lighting applications carry two very important designations. 1: Suitable for use in damp/moist environments (in that they are moisture proof) 2: Suitable for use in enclosed fixtures. These are rare indeed. It means the lamps have been designed and built with advanced thermal properties that will allow the components to operate below their max temperature limits even when sealed inside a fixture.

The manufacturers of LED lamps you named all make decent to very good products, but if you are planning to use them in a landscape lighting application you will be disappointed. Better to stick with LED lamps that have been designed specifically for our industry.