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View Full Version : Geotextile use question


alldayrj
12-10-2012, 10:45 PM
I noticed over the past few months that some of you guys swear by it. I personally have never seen it being used in NY. However, I have a customer that has a terrible concrete driveway, a real anklebreaker. they want me to rip it out and put the base down now, then do the pavers in the spring and I'm interested in using geotex if thats the best way to do the job. This is my first paver drieway, I want it to hold up well.

Now hand in hand with this, I do my borders on a 6" concrete footing and mortared down. I've caught heat on here for doing it this way but I'm justifying it by looking at asphalt guys that don't use geotex and also set their paver and cobblestone borders on the same style concrete footing. I know that asphalt isnt permeable to water like pavers so maybe this is the reason that they don't, but it doesnt explain away the footings. I know to be real load bearing footings they would need to be below the frost line, but the driveway or patio is not below the frost line, and therefore moves with the frost.

Do I put the footings on the geotex, or let the geotex come to the inside of the footing? call me an idiot for doing it on footings but around here many contractors do and those who use plastic snap edge are looked down on as mower jockeys.

I'll throw a few pics on showing my footing system for those that cant visualize it
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/78BDB644-F8D1-4928-904C-CACD6AB03016-11597-000007C2BF7FDEBF.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/6FFAA0AE-8E7C-4C9F-AED1-C1AC084734A1-11597-000007C2C51A6225.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/13DC2D6D-5632-4C21-893B-D1128A32DE76-11597-000007C2B5B42C3F.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/4482D54A-6F8D-4B1E-AE7D-A63B9BC57F5A-11597-000007C2AC77044C.jpg
Really no way to use a plastic edge restraint on half of this walkway anyway.

and here is a blacktop drive that i removed and excavated for new base and pavers to be installed. (not my job, just hired for the excavating and hauling.) cobblestone borders on concrete footings to be left in place.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/silversuper/171C92DE-2B4C-4281-A497-D471C5661F28-2641-000002BE6DEF82F5.jpg

TomG
12-10-2012, 11:32 PM
Use geo-textile under the driveway and your "footings". We use geo-textile on 100% of our driveways. I would extend the geo-textile at least a foot beyond the outside of your footings. We usually put in multiple layers of fabric as well. Because of the vehicular load. Not one on top of each other but equally spaced out in the base aggregate.

alldayrj
12-10-2012, 11:39 PM
how many inches should I be putting? I know it depends on existing soils but most guys only put about 4/6" around here.

What does the geotex beyond the footings achieve

DVS Hardscaper
12-11-2012, 08:17 AM
I'm not a believer in concrete being used with pavers. Never was. And two years ago we had to repair a paver driveway done by others that had concrete on the perimeter. I believe that Longterm it created more problems than benefits. To each his own.

Just because you don't see something being used doesn't mean that's gospil. And then again - most of our jobs are in backyards or at properties that are off the road and not visible, so none of us really see much of what others do.

A roll of good fabric is around $600.00. Most contractors do not want to spend $600. So they craft every reason not to use it. This equates to around 9 cents per sq ft. It's cheap insurance. From day one all my paver jobs have always had fabric. And always will. The costs of the fabric is factored into the job at hand. There is waste. So I factor in an additional 15% to account for fabric waste. I don't care what ICPI says or doesn't say. We use it.

Don't worry about what others in your area do and or do not do. Set yourself apart.
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TomG
12-11-2012, 08:30 AM
Generally for a driveway we put in 8" - 12" of base. Some may say that is excessive, but there is nothing worse than driving by a house and seeing ruts in the paver driveway. Driveways are usually always highly visible, do it correct.

alldayrj
12-11-2012, 08:30 AM
Ok i just need to find a manufacturer that sells in my area. I don't want to get sold some weed barrier by accident
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DVS Hardscaper
12-11-2012, 09:49 AM
All our pavers used in vehicular applications have 12-inches of base.

Many folks say that 8-inches will suffice. Again, insurance. Why risk having to come back, what's another 4-inches?


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JFGauvreau
12-11-2012, 10:34 AM
You guys are lucky in the south! Less work for you! Up here in Canada for a standard vehicle driveway we dig down 24". Add the fabric, lay down a good base of 4" rock The rest is all GA 5/8-, watered and compacted every 4". Then we add a final 1/2" of stone dust to level our pavers.

SDLandscapes VT
12-11-2012, 02:53 PM
$600 seems steep for a roll of geotextile, but either way you will never regret installing fabric.

DVS Hardscaper
12-11-2012, 06:24 PM
$600 seems steep for a roll of geotextile, but either way you will never regret installing fabric.


for a 15' wide roll - it around $0.09 / sf. usually loaded and unloaded with a skid steer or fork lift.



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alldayrj
12-11-2012, 08:08 PM
Anyone have a manufacturer to look for or a supplier on LI?
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clipfert
12-11-2012, 08:13 PM
You want to look for Mirafi 500X or US Fabrics US200 Geotextile fabric.
12.5' X 432' Roll Weight 210 lbs.
Just bought a full roll last month $ 300.00 + tax
Like everyone says its cheap insurance. Use it.

zedosix
12-11-2012, 10:28 PM
You guys are lucky in the south! Less work for you! Up here in Canada for a standard vehicle driveway we dig down 24". Add the fabric, lay down a good base of 4" rock The rest is all GA 5/8-, watered and compacted every 4". Then we add a final 1/2" of stone dust to level our pavers.

The same here, we dig 24" at garage entry, extend sides 1', compact base and place geotex. We put in half base of 2" minus then 3/4" ga after. Sand for levelling, not dust.
Too bad our climate wasn't like the south we could do three driveways with all the base we put in!

custom patios
12-13-2012, 09:22 AM
dont you look back now at pics 3 and 4 and ask yourself why the hell you put concrete pavers on top of all that? You did all that nice brick work, selected a nice bluestone tread stock, and then smoked a fatty and forgot where you left off.
that little job could have had a very clean, classic look had you only wet laid that walk with the brick. You could have done it in less time too. just my opinion, but you got too much material change going on and no unity. youll have more problems with what you did down the road, than if you had stayed within the box.

KeystoneLawn&Landscaping
12-13-2012, 09:43 AM
The same here, we dig 24" at garage entry, extend sides 1', compact base and place geotex. We put in half base of 2" minus then 3/4" ga after. Sand for levelling, not dust.
Too bad our climate wasn't like the south we could do three driveways with all the base we put in!

Is part of the reason you guys in Canada put the large rock and so deep for drainage codes in Canada? Are there some places you can only build with permeable pavers?

zedosix
12-13-2012, 11:11 AM
Not any code, just from experience we know what it takes to keep the pavement intact. Permeable pavers are becoming more popular, I remember quoting one job a few years back where there was buildings all around the driveway and really nowhere for the water to go, permeable pavement there was ideal. I sold the customer on the product but another contractor ended up with the work
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alldayrj
12-13-2012, 06:44 PM
dont you look back now at pics 3 and 4 and ask yourself why the hell you put concrete pavers on top of all that? You did all that nice brick work, selected a nice bluestone tread stock, and then smoked a fatty and forgot where you left off.
that little job could have had a very clean, classic look had you only wet laid that walk with the brick. You could have done it in less time too. just my opinion, but you got too much material change going on and no unity. youll have more problems with what you did down the road, than if you had stayed within the box.

Taking that fatty comment with a gain of salt, however the homeowner wanted those specific pavers. Not really what this thread is about so i would like your opinion on the geotex
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DVS Hardscaper
12-13-2012, 07:03 PM
Taking that fatty comment with a gain of salt, however the homeowner wanted those specific pavers. Not really what this thread is about so i would like your opinion on the geotex
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Winners use geo-textile fabric.

Losers don't use geo-textile fabric.

So, do you wanna be like me, a winner, or do you wanna be like the 643 other patio guys on Long Island?

Find a building supplier in your area. Google works wonders for locating stuff.

End of story. Now go make money.




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DVS Hardscaper
12-13-2012, 07:12 PM
if you cant find a supplier for geo-textile fabric - try calling some of the manufacturers and ask them to help you find a supplier near you.



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alldayrj
12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Get it. Got it. Good. Been selling concrete, this time of year there arent many calls for pavers. I'll get on google later, im famiar with it, just havent had time during business hrs to make calls
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jbailey52
12-13-2012, 09:17 PM
DVS... Do you watch 'shark tank'.... If you do I have a feeling you cheer for the bald guy

custom patios
12-14-2012, 09:04 AM
Taking that fatty comment with a gain of salt, however the homeowner wanted those specific pavers. Not really what this thread is about so i would like your opinion on the geotex
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of course I was playing with the fatty comment. wasnt meant to offend. sorry bout that. just some things are meant to be simple, keep simple.
to answer your question, if I was going to build something the way you are doing it... I would use geo. always use geo.