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andyslawncare
12-13-2012, 07:46 PM
Hey guys,

We renewal prune all knock outs every year, and most of the plants have been pruned yearly since install so its all nice green wood. Some to about 12'' and some taller. My question is in regards to dormant buds on the older wood and your experience...I'm attaching a photo to help this make sense.

What I'm talking about is the very old wood at the base. If I cut into this old wood with a pruning saw, will dormant buds set out or will I kill the plant? Last year, we had to prune these high due to the same question and I would like to have more new growth lower on the plants.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Smallaxe
12-14-2012, 09:45 AM
It looks like you have only 2 trunks and they are lieing prostrate on the ground for several inches... is that true?

Cutting old dead wood during dormancy will not trigger bud growth... and any living branches left alone will bud normally in the Spring...
Pruning does not affect either of those scenarios... :)

clcare2
12-14-2012, 07:42 PM
also you can pretty much light the things on fire and K.O. will still grow like a weed and bloom.

Had one idiot this year take his hedge trimmers and prune a customers property because he was too lazy to do it by hand. Best looking roses in town when they bloomed.

Will P.C.
12-14-2012, 08:10 PM
I think I would just cut those back to a foot or 2. They look pretty bad in current shape. Get rid of all the deadwood at the base

andyslawncare
12-14-2012, 10:47 PM
This plant is in a pretty shaded area and either shade or stupid driver is the cause for the prostrate growth.

I wasn't referring to cutting the dead wood, I was talking about the live wood at the base. It looks likes its dead wood, but this plant has just 1 dead branch at the bottom of the photo. All other gray areas have green shoots off it.

Clcare2, I've actually had really good success with sheering the roses during the summer to extend the bloom period--most are still in bloom for Christmas here. We hand prune between January and March also.

Smallaxe
12-15-2012, 08:52 AM
The question about how close you can cut it at the base to renew the 'old wood' is more what is sought after with roses...

I consider wood that looks like that as dying, so eliminating it w/out losing the plant is the purpose of pruning out 1/3 of the old wood every year...

Is there nothing coming up from the roots at all??? It would be nice to just take that nasty prostrate trunk right out of there...

ed2hess
12-16-2012, 08:51 PM
I wouldn't do much cutting on those. I would take a look at using this fetilize next year. But growing em in shade is tough.

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/insects-pests/products/all-in-one-rose-flower-care

andyslawncare
12-17-2012, 06:30 PM
No new growth from roots, no layering due to our strict bed management. Its almost worth it to just take the winch to them and plant new at cost or experiment and see how far we can cut. I want more compact plants there; I was hired as landscape manager and I think I should take severe action with replacement risk. The only canes that can be cut are currently green. I've only been on site for 2 years of this growth, and I feel it wasn't pruned often before me.

ed2hess
12-17-2012, 07:10 PM
Those roses are anemic and need more fertilize. You have got to fertilize them monthly year round. New ones isn't going to solve the problem of them not growing. And don't overthink this pruning you can't hurt knock out roses but don't cut them to the ground. Take a winch to em:hammerhead: Those could be pulled out by hand.

andyslawncare
12-17-2012, 07:59 PM
I like to use my winch its fun and easy :) Are you jealous that you don't have one? HAHA

I'll check the soil first. I blame on old age and lack of juvenile pruning + shade. I've noticed very healthy azaleas and camellias in the same beds; the roses are healthy too, just old. The roses are still blooming today.

andyslawncare
12-17-2012, 08:01 PM
Those roses are anemic and need more fertilize. You have got to fertilize them monthly year round. New ones isn't going to solve the problem of them not growing. And don't overthink this pruning you can't hurt knock out roses but don't cut them to the ground. Take a winch to em:hammerhead: Those could be pulled out by hand.

Your willing to pull an established KO out with your hands, feel free. They do have sharp spines my friend, and there is not root root here. No thanks.

Landscape Poet
12-17-2012, 08:53 PM
I blame on old age and lack of juvenile pruning + shade. I've noticed very healthy azaleas and camellias in the same beds; the roses are healthy too, just old. The roses are still blooming today.

You have provided enough information for me to say you should know the problem. You have stated they are sparse and have been since doing a rejuv pruning last year, and azaleas and camellias are in the same bed but thriving. I do it would be stretch to imagine that those roses are not the right plant for that place.

Although I agree with ed that roses are generally heavy feeders, in your case I do not think fertilizer is the answer until they are moved to a location which allows more favorable growth conditions. More fertilizer could essentially cause more stress.

Smallaxe
12-18-2012, 07:25 AM
Good point Poet, that is just what I wanted to say about location. W/out sunlight the fertilizer isn't very helpful and may indeed cause additional stress...

Think Green
12-18-2012, 06:47 PM
Andy's
I agree.......late to read the posts.
Knockout Rose's need full sun to produce the best shape. The twisting trunk seems remnant of the plant growing toward the sunlight.
I also agree that these plants are not in the correct spot.......and yes fertilizing them even with extra phosphate for blooming will only hurt them.
If this customer allows, prune them back down to two feet tall and relocate them to a suitable location. After new growth starts according to your weather conditions, then add a low nitrogen fertilizer until blooms ensue.
I see people buying these plants from all over and planting them in place of other rose's that do not fair so well. The same issue of low light and poor air circulation causes any rose to be subject to leggy stems, powder mildew, blight, rose spot, stem borer and nematodes.

For me..........the problem has been Mosaic Virus on this species.

ed2hess
12-20-2012, 07:52 PM
I have not any problem with fertilizing causing more stress as long as you use the one I recommended. The other thing is.....these things need water the more the better.

LHS Lawns
12-27-2012, 01:12 PM
I have not any problem with fertilizing causing more stress as long as you use the one I recommended. The other thing is.....these things need water the more the better.

I agree with the water issue. At our home we have two area's of KO's. One area is a stand alone full sun bed. Just them and a few other accent plants but the KO's are the dominant plant.

I prune them down in the Spring about 18"-20". They are about four years old now and they are spectacular. I think I've fertilized them twice in four years. You couldn't ask for more out of a plant than what these beauties give.

The other area is part sun and shade in a bed with some Manhatten Euonoymus and they look like yours, very weak and frail. In the Spring and Fall they perk up with the rains but the Manhattens suck up too much moisture in the Summer months.

I think the combo of part sun and lack of good moisture is holding our KO's back and what I can see from your picture it might be the same problem.

When ours go dormant we are moving them to an area with full sun and plenty of moisture along with being a few steps from the water hose for easy watering if needed.

gunsnroses
01-03-2013, 09:46 AM
http://www.ars.org/?page_id=3241

Rose Rosette Disease will be something to look out for (or just kill all wild roses), I would pull those ugly things out and replace with something else. Roses are over rated in my opinion.

LHS Lawns
01-03-2013, 09:59 AM
We never had roses at our home before, just too much maintenance. When the KO's came out with their low maintenance rep we gave them a try and they have been great.

Smallaxe
01-03-2013, 10:22 AM
I still ain't sure what all the hassle is about "Too Much Maintenance" is all about... I've had various roses my whole adult life and to tell you the truth ,,, the old floribundas are no more hassle to care for than the knockout rose or anything else...

If people are thinking about those stupid Tea Roses that get fungaldiseases over winter because they have to be "Protected from winterkill" then I guess that would explain it,,, but those are just manmade freaks of nature and aren't really roses at all... they're expensive annuals...

Mahoney3223
01-10-2013, 12:32 AM
I usually prune my ko's in the fall and they come back nice. I don't like them getting huge. I have a property where the ko's are gigantic. They only let us prune a tiny bit off them. They look like trees, lol. I wanted to let mine @ home get bigger but then the animals came and ate them lol.