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View Full Version : Poor Maintenance On Echo 261T Trimmer


ed2hess
12-26-2012, 07:48 PM
This is what happens when you don't have any scheduled maintenance. The crew just run it until it dropped. I just found this in one of the trailers. This unit was last checked in 10/2009. At that time it had ports cleaned plug new shoes filters. Keep in mind this unit was over 5 years old in 2009. So it ran two more years.

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Yes all that gloupy stuff is oil/clutch debris all mixed together. I don't know
how the oil got into the clutch area because the crank seal behind the flywheel was dry.

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And you can see that the shoes are down to bare metal.

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So the unit wouldn't start.....Put new crank seal behind recoil, had to put
a replacement coil, put carb thru ultacleaner, new plug, and had to remove and clean oil out of the on/off switch it was shorting. The unit cranked up and runs fine. And new clutch shoes. I am planning to pull the head off to check condition of the piston rings and bearing.

ed2hess
12-29-2012, 11:06 PM
This may be my first unit that I couldn't get going. Replaced coil(warranty just under 10 years), new off/on switch it was full of oil, new seal on recoil side. The unit started a couple times and stopped. I pulled the head and cleaned all the transfer ports and muffler side port. They weren't bad. Put it back together nothing. Cleaned carb and put in kit. There is a hunk of the skirts on piston that got knocked off and was apparently ground up inside the engine. That may be my problem. I will put a used piston in to see.

Landrus2
12-29-2012, 11:25 PM
If you got seven years out of this machine forget the poor maintenance.
My trimmers with top maintenance don't last more than two seasons:weightlifter:

grassman177
12-30-2012, 03:23 AM
yeah, def who cares. dont put money into it, not worth it esp for that much use.

we get about 4-5 years with little to no major maint. we occasionally replace clutches, but rarely.

ed2hess
12-30-2012, 08:37 PM
This unit is almost 10 years old......I am going to get it running one way or another and for less than $20, not counting labor. It helps me understand how to fix stuff quick on new machines.
I put another piston on it since the one on the unit had a little chunck out of the skirt. As expected that changed nothing. I did verify my carb is working by putting it on another machine. I did a compression test and it was 90. I tested another 261T with about same age and it tested 90 and starts and runs fine.

I guess I should bump this up to the stump the mechanic:laugh: I think I now know what the problem may be and I missed the biggest clue that is shown in those first pictures. Anybody have an idea?

fatboynormmie
12-30-2012, 09:03 PM
Hey Ed are you sure you still have good spark.Check the ground wire heck disconnect it off the coil and see if she lights off.Prob something simple good luck.

Also wanted to give you props on all your echo threads and pics much appreciated. :waving:

BigFish
12-30-2012, 10:23 PM
This unit is almost 10 years old......I am going to get it running one way or another and for less than $20, not counting labor. It helps me understand how to fix stuff quick on new machines.
I put another piston on it since the one on the unit had a little chunck out of the skirt. As expected that changed nothing. I did verify my carb is working by putting it on another machine. I did a compression test and it was 90. I tested another 261T with about same age and it tested 90 and starts and runs fine.

I guess I should bump this up to the stump the mechanic:laugh: I think I now know what the problem may be and I missed the biggest clue that is shown in those first pictures. Anybody have an idea?

From the looks of things, you should have replaced the seal behind the flywheel. All that grit, you might wanna take a close look at the shaft/ seal
contact area.

Do you not have a vac./pressure tester?

ed2hess
12-30-2012, 10:51 PM
From the looks of things, you should have replaced the seal behind the flywheel. All that grit, you might wanna take a close look at the shaft/ seal
contact area.

Do you not have a vac./pressure tester?
I thought sure that the seal behind the flywheel was out but it was clean
and dry as could be. There was a little leakage on the other end of the crank behind the recoil but no gue like in the picture. I put a new seal behind the recoil. Yes I got a pressure tester rig that will be used next. So both crank seals are good and I verified that the cyclinder gasket was good when I pulled the cyclinder off twice.

44DCNF
12-31-2012, 12:25 AM
Do I see a pinched/possibly broken ign wire?

Breezmister
12-31-2012, 01:17 AM
Do I see a pinched/possibly broken ign wire?

As long as that wire is not grounding out, even if you take it off from the coil, if the coil is good, it wouldn't stop it from giving spark.

One wire comes from the tab on the coil to the switch, the second wire come from the switch to a ground on the coil. When you turn the switch off, it grounds the coil.

I have had a wire (the one coming from the coil) where the covering was worn, and rubbed against the housing causing the coil to ground out.

fatboynormmie
12-31-2012, 02:19 AM
As long as that wire is not grounding out, even if you take it off from the coil, if the coil is good, it wouldn't stop it from giving spark.

One wire comes from the tab on the coil to the switch, the second wire come from the switch to a ground on the coil. When you turn the switch off, it grounds the coil.

I have had a wire (the one coming from the coil) where the covering was worn, and rubbed against the housing causing the coil to ground out.

Thats what I was getting at in my previous post.I too have had an intermittent no run caused by a chaffed compromised grounding wire.Thats why I suggested to completely unplug it from the coil and eliminate it from the equation . Could be bleeding off enough current in the spark to not allow it to fire under compression.Spark plug in open air you may see some spark there.

piston slapper
12-31-2012, 09:54 AM
This unit is almost 10 years old......I am going to get it running one way or another and for less than $20, not counting labor. It helps me understand how to fix stuff quick on new machines.


I guess I should bump this up to the stump the mechanic:laugh: I think I now know what the problem may be and I missed the biggest clue that is shown in those first pictures. Anybody have an idea?

Determination separates the wannabe mechanics from the truly gifted...
Most think the job is easy just because you diagnosed and fixed a trimmer in 5 minutes..
They don't realize how many engines kicked your ass to make you so smart...
They also complain about paying a minimum charge when you make it look easy...
Pay Your Dues.....To The Victor Go The Spoils....

Thanx for the pictoral threads Ed....
Happy New Year.....Slapper

BigFish
12-31-2012, 10:42 AM
I thought sure that the seal behind the flywheel was out but it was clean
and dry as could be. There was a little leakage on the other end of the crank behind the recoil but no gue like in the picture. I put a new seal behind the recoil. Yes I got a pressure tester rig that will be used next. So both crank seals are good and I verified that the cyclinder gasket was good when I pulled the cyclinder off twice.

The only thing left is a sheared flywheel key/crank keyway.
What caused the piston to bust up a skirt?
And how can you possibly work on anything that filthy????

piston slapper
12-31-2012, 10:49 AM
Cracked or leaking isoblock....the only thing with a clean spot on the engine..

BigFish
12-31-2012, 11:03 AM
Cracked or leaking isoblock....the only thing with a clean spot on the engine..

I'm assumin' he already checked that out, since he had the carb and cylinder off.

I could be wrong, but from readin' some of his other posts, it appears as though he re-uses gaskets, wrist-pin clips etc., so anythings possible!

piston slapper
12-31-2012, 11:29 AM
I hear you Fish...
Could be a chinese sparkplug...I had one that would spark when laid against the cylinder...
But wouldn't hit a lick under compression...

Breezmister
12-31-2012, 01:54 PM
. I did a compression test and it was 90.


You are just at the edge at 90 psi, anything less and I would do a complete rebuild or strip it for parts.

If you are leaking oil, it's got to be coming from a bad/leaking/warped cylinder base or a warped isoblock

A couple tricks you can try, double up on the cylinder gaskets, or get some high temperature gasket sealer and put some on both sides of the gasket (s)

If it is the isoblock, take some fine emery paper, on a flat smooth surface and sand it down untill you are flat on both sides. If the isoblock is warped, your first few passes will highlight the high points. You can also use the high temp gasket sealer here too.

Happy New Year

ed2hess
12-31-2012, 06:45 PM
In taking it apart to do the vac test I pulled the flywheel. To my surprise there was a lot of caked gunk back there, something I couldn't see when I peeped behind with the flywheel on.

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I did the vac test and it was holding at about 45...don't know parameters...in. of mercury or something.
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Then I got the bright idea to do a pressure test. But instead of using my brake vac device I got the leak tester. So I sit pressure at 40 and though i felt a small leak so I went to 50.

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This got in before the picture of glasses
I decided to put on NEW gaskets and a NEW seal on flywheel side(other side already done) and give her a try. I checked the iso plate for flatness. But it was changed out anyway.

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Just as I was lowering my face toward the air leak the crankshaft seal blew out and hit my grasses:hammerhead:

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Got to order seal....Happy New Year

dboyd351
01-03-2013, 06:50 PM
You are just at the edge at 90 psi, anything less and I would do a complete rebuild or strip it for parts.



I agree with Breezmister, 90 psi is borderline. Add anything else, like a weak/intermittent spark and it probably won't run. You may well have 2 problems interacting, with one of them being the compression.

ed2hess
01-04-2013, 08:46 PM
I agree with Breezmister, 90 psi is borderline. Add anything else, like a weak/intermittent spark and it probably won't run. You may well have 2 problems interacting, with one of them being the compression.

Coil replaced under warrant. I kinda have to agree but don't know where else to go. It passed vac test. The carb works on another unit that measured 90psi.

Breezmister
01-04-2013, 09:56 PM
Coil replaced under warrant. I kinda have to agree but don't know where else to go. It passed vac test. The carb works on another unit that measured 90psi.

Here is another old trick. take the plug out, bring the piston up to tdc and, then pull on the rope until the piston is half way down. Without going pass the exhaust port.

Take a tea spoon of straight mix oil and pour it in the cylinder, let it sit for half an hour so that the oil will soak down around the piston and behind the rings.

Now this is the important part ;) Take a shop rag or paper towel, with out blocking the spark plug hole cover it, turn it on it's side, give it a hard pull and get the extra oil out of the cylinder. (switch off)

Once this is done, put a new gaped plug
in and see if it will start. If it does, it will smoke really badly. Run it at WOT until the smoke/oil burns out of the muffler.

If this dosen't work, the only other thing I can think of is replace the rings with new, if you havn't already. As long as the cylinder is not scored. Any scratches, no matter how small, and it will never run.

Good Luck