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Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 05:39 PM
I ve read all the posts Thanks for all the good info. Question: if i pull a empty trailer with a gvwr over 10,000# i need a cdl? I am assuming that regardless of my weight if the trailer is rated over 10 k i need a cdl? Also if my combined "ratings" are over 10k i need what? Dot numbers, log book extinguishers medical card? Lol. My rig has 11,300 gvwr, so id like a 14 k trailer= 25,300 < 26,000 nice but im thinking i need a 9900# trailer to avoid a cdl. Is this correct? Forgive me for my ignorance.
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Darryl G
01-06-2013, 06:02 PM
I highly recommend that you disregard everything that anyone (including myself) has to say here and investigate it yourself with your local DMV/DOT. In my state, there are different rules if you are engaged in intrastate or interstate commerce. It is my undertanding that I am not subject to the CGVWR of 10.001K unless I cross state lines, but instead subject to them if I'm 18,001 pounds combined, so with my 3K gross trailer I'm not. But yes, generally it's the rating of the rig that triggers things, not whether you are actually over it at the time.

This has come up time and time again here and there is little concensus and a lot of misinformation. It's really best to check how things are in your state. There are also some rigs that automatically trigger the regulations, regardless of weight rating. There are also some exemptions. The key to it all...the applicablility...lies in the defintions and how they are interpreted and enforced.

Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 06:04 PM
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Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 06:13 PM
Problem is I live in the corner of four states. I know i should just get a cdl but it seems like such hassle. Figure i can get by w a 9900# trailer, but two pallets of brick and the weight of the trailer is pushing 10 000# lol
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Darryl G
01-06-2013, 06:18 PM
Well...you may not need a CDL, just to comply with some of the requirements, such as DOT numbers, safety equipment and medical card, etc.

Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 06:22 PM
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Darryl G
01-06-2013, 06:23 PM
Don't worry, you're not the only one who posts blank smartphone messages, lol.

Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 06:47 PM
Thx for the vote of confidence lol. It sucks they stick it to the actual hard working producing contractors. At least have a universal standard thats purely based on safety and not on confusion and revenue generation.
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david bailey
01-06-2013, 09:38 PM
I live in NC but the rules are mostly the same everywhere. The licenseing you need is based on GVWR. If your trailer is over 10k+1 you need a CDL. But keep in mind(at least here in NC)you have to buy enough weight rating when you buy your license plates as well to haul a given amount of weight.
I have my F-350 licensed for 24k because I pull a gooseneck or a dump trailer or a tilt deck,all 7 ton. I have to account for the weight of the truck,trailer and the load and not go over my limit.
On my F-750 I'm licensed for 45k so I can haul 8 tons,plus my trailer(10 ton) and a machine.
I have a class A CDL

Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 09:59 PM
Thanks guys. Im going with 9900gvwr dump trailer along w my f350 dually for now.avoiding a cdl.since my trucks gvwr is 11300# i figure ill need dot #/ dot safety stuff n log. Can i keep the equiptment in my personal name and register and use it commercially w business name on it? ?
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knox gsl
01-06-2013, 10:04 PM
Call your local DOT office and they will go over your equipment, paperwork and permits and tell you what you need to do to be legal. Don't call the sheriff or city cops as they won't know. Darryl is right about people's advice on here, the only thing they will have is a wrong answer when it comes to the DOT.

Darryl G
01-06-2013, 10:16 PM
Yup...and the fines can be realllllllly steep and they can red tag your equipment on the side of the road...happened to a friend of mine. It's really best to check it out yourself, and even then you might get different answers from different people at DOT and DMV.

Funfunfun
01-06-2013, 11:59 PM
Ok now after reading another post about the cdl requirement, duffster has convinced me i dont need a cdl with a 14 k trailer as long as im under 26k total. lets hope this is correct lol. to further my dilemma my hitch is rated for a 10 k trailer. as long as i keep my 14k trailers weight under 10 k im ok right ??? I want the extra payload in my trailer because it may come in handy ;).

Funfunfun
01-07-2013, 12:05 AM
Also, i will check with local dmv and get their answer in writing before i buy my dump trailer. I figure a dump trailer is most versatile though not perfect for everything.

Darryl G
01-07-2013, 12:25 AM
Just hang a hammock in it and call it a recreational vehicle and then you're exempt. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Funfunfun
01-07-2013, 12:51 AM
yeah and line it w epdm and fill it w water. :drinkup:

PlantscapeSolutions
01-07-2013, 12:58 AM
With a 14K axles trailer here south of you in Texas you wouldn't have a problem. My first big trailer purchased was a 21' triple 7K axle beast with 4' sides. The place in Ennis, TX that custom built it for me underrated the trailer. This kept it from being a CDL trailer and made the registration at least $50 less per year.

I drove that trailer from Austin to Houston and back 3-4 times, down the highway south of San Antonio to Bigfoot, TX multiple times and to other places as well. The weights and measures inspectors never even looked my way. The dump trucks, semi's, and other larger stuff was what they were watching for.

Now I have a 20' dump trailer with twin 10K axles and for that I did have to get a CDL. The ticket for getting caught without the proper class of license is usually $1500. This ticket can not be dismissed by correcting the license issue. You can no longer take defensive driving to get a ticket dismissed either. As far as even having a sip of a drink before driving forget it. You have to blow all zeros. No amount of alcohol is allowed.

zabmasonry
01-10-2013, 08:38 PM
I'll echo what other have said . . . don't take what we say, call your local dmv/dot office and get your local rules.

BUT . . .
here's what I know about VT. and I think that this is pretty typical

If your under 26k gross (rated, not actual or registered) you don't need a CDL
If your over 26k gross with a towed vehicle under 10k you need a CDL B
If your over 26k gross with a towed vehicle over 10k you need a CDL A

If your over 10k gross you need a DOT Med Card.

In VT if you don't cross state-lines you don't need a DOT#, I don't know what this means regarding other FMCSA compliance. Personally I will try to stay fully compliant regardless of if I have a DOT# or not.

PlantscapeSolutions
01-10-2013, 09:01 PM
I'll echo what other have said . . . don't take what we say, call your local dmv/dot office and get your local rules.

BUT . . .
here's what I know about VT. and I think that this is pretty typical

If your under 26k gross (rated, not actual or registered) you don't need a CDL
If your over 26k gross with a towed vehicle under 10k you need a CDL B
If your over 26k gross with a towed vehicle over 10k you need a CDL A

If your over 10k gross you need a DOT Med Card.

In VT if you don't cross state-lines you don't need a DOT#, I don't know what this means regarding other FMCSA compliance. Personally I will try to stay fully compliant regardless of if I have a DOT# or not.

Class B is for hauling with no trailer. Dumps trucks, cement trucks, and things along those lines. Bus drivers get a class B as well depending on how many passengers the vehicle holds. I have a class A.

metro36
01-10-2013, 10:04 PM
If your combined weight (truck gvw + trailer gvw) is less than 26k you dont need a cdl. So a 12k gvw truck can pull a 14k gvw trailer without any cdl. You can drive any truck up to 26k with a trailer up to 10k without a cdl. So a 26k truck + 10k trailer no cdl.

Truck over 26001 lbs + trailer under 10001lbs: Class B CDL
Truck trailer combo over 26001 lbs combined with a trailer over 10001lbs: Class A CDL

You shouldnt need MC#'s unless you transport goods for hire. In my case I only transport goods that I own so I dont need them. I buy goods from my supplier, transport them then sell them to my customers.

Dot numbers, and med cards vary from state to state. Call your state DOT office to find out for sure.

CLARK LAWN
01-14-2013, 09:41 PM
If your combined weight (truck gvw + trailer gvw) is less than 26k you dont need a cdl. So a 12k gvw truck can pull a 14k gvw trailer without any cdl. You can drive any truck up to 26k with a trailer up to 10k without a cdl. So a 26k truck + 10k trailer no cdl.

Close but no cigar. You can actually have a GCWR of more than 26K and not need a CDL.

you can have a truck with a GVWR if 25000 and a trailer at 9990 and not need a CDL.

Truck over 26001 lbs + trailer under 10001lbs: Class B CDL
Truck trailer combo over 26001 lbs combined with a trailer over 10001lbs: Class A CDL

You shouldnt need MC#'s unless you transport goods for hire. In my case I only transport goods that I own so I dont need them. I buy goods from my supplier, transport them then sell them to my customers.

Dot numbers, and med cards vary from state to state. Call your state DOT office to find out for sure.
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metro36
01-15-2013, 08:15 PM
Clark, If your trailer weighs more than 10001lbs then you must keep your GCVW under 26001lbs. Like I said originally you can have a 26000lb truck with a 10000lb trailer and not need a CDL.

CLARK LAWN
01-15-2013, 08:47 PM
So if I have a truck 25000# truck and an 8000# trailer would I need a CDL? If so what class?
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CLARK LAWN
01-15-2013, 09:09 PM
So if I have a truck 25000# truck and an 8000# trailer would I need a CDL? If so what class?
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PlantscapeSolutions
01-15-2013, 09:58 PM
So if I have a truck 25000# truck and an 8000# trailer would I need a CDL? If so what class?
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Yes you would need a class A which is what I have. If the truck alone exceeds 26K you would need a class B.

Here is the info pertinent to TX DL's

Commercial Driver License (CDL)

A commercial driver license (CDL) is a type of driver license an individual can apply for to transport interstate or intrastate commerce.

With the exception of motorcycles and mopeds, individuals who hold a valid CDL may drive all vehicles in the class for which that license is issued, including their personal vehicle.

Any vehicle that requires an endorsement (i.e. school bus, hazardous material, etc.) may not be driven unless the proper endorsement appears on the CDL.

Individuals are required to have a CDL if they operate a motor vehicle:

With a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds,
Which transports quantities of hazardous materials that requires warning placards (signs), or
Designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver.

Any individual whose driver license is currently suspended, cancelled or revoked in Texas or in any other state is not eligible for a CDL.
CDL Exemptions

Individuals who operate any of the following vehicles are not required to obtain a CDL but must have the correct type of driver license for the vehicle they are operating:

Military or commercial vehicles when operated for military purposes by military personnel,
A vehicle controlled and operated by a farmer, used to transport agricultural products, machinery or supplies within 150 miles of the individualís farm,
Fire-fighting or emergency vehicles necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions whether operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter,
Recreational vehicles driven for personal use (although a CDL is not required, individuals may need to obtain a Class A driver license), and
Straight trucks used exclusively for transporting an individualís tangible personal property not for sale.

Interstate versus Intrastate

Individuals may apply for a CDL that allows the transportation of either interstate or intrastate commerce. At the driver license office, individuals must specify if they are applying for interstate or intrastate commerce.

Interstate commerce means trade, traffic or transportation:
Within the U.S. between a place in a state and a place outside of such state or outside of the U.S., or
Between two places in a state through another state or outside of the U.S.
Intrastate commerce is the:
Transportation of property (a commodity) where the point of origin and destination are within one state and the state line, or
International boundary is not crossed.

The Bill of Lading will be an indicator as to whether a shipment or commodity is interstate or intrastate. If there is not a Bill of Lading then the origin and destination of the shipment will be an indicator.

PerfectEarth
01-15-2013, 10:57 PM
25000# truck towing a 8000# trailer does NOT need a class A.

The combination is clearly over 26000# - yes... BUT the trailer is not over 10000#!!

Anytime you step over a 10k trailer which pushes you OVER 26000# combined, that's class A

KS_Grasscutter
01-15-2013, 11:03 PM
PerfectEarth is correct as I understand. Google "CDL requirements flow chart" or something similar.

CLARK LAWN
01-16-2013, 05:57 AM
Yes you would need a class A which is what I have. If the truck alone exceeds 26K you would need a class B.

Here is the info pertinent to TX DL's

Commercial Driver License (CDL)

A commercial driver license (CDL) is a type of driver license an individual can apply for to transport interstate or intrastate commerce.

With the exception of motorcycles and mopeds, individuals who hold a valid CDL may drive all vehicles in the class for which that license is issued, including their personal vehicle.

Any vehicle that requires an endorsement (i.e. school bus, hazardous material, etc.) may not be driven unless the proper endorsement appears on the CDL.

Individuals are required to have a CDL if they operate a motor vehicle:

With a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds,
Which transports quantities of hazardous materials that requires warning placards (signs), or
Designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver.

Any individual whose driver license is currently suspended, cancelled or revoked in Texas or in any other state is not eligible for a CDL.
CDL Exemptions

Individuals who operate any of the following vehicles are not required to obtain a CDL but must have the correct type of driver license for the vehicle they are operating:

Military or commercial vehicles when operated for military purposes by military personnel,
A vehicle controlled and operated by a farmer, used to transport agricultural products, machinery or supplies within 150 miles of the individualís farm,
Fire-fighting or emergency vehicles necessary to the preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions whether operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter,
Recreational vehicles driven for personal use (although a CDL is not required, individuals may need to obtain a Class A driver license), and
Straight trucks used exclusively for transporting an individualís tangible personal property not for sale.

Interstate versus Intrastate

Individuals may apply for a CDL that allows the transportation of either interstate or intrastate commerce. At the driver license office, individuals must specify if they are applying for interstate or intrastate commerce.

Interstate commerce means trade, traffic or transportation:
Within the U.S. between a place in a state and a place outside of such state or outside of the U.S., or
Between two places in a state through another state or outside of the U.S.
Intrastate commerce is the:
Transportation of property (a commodity) where the point of origin and destination are within one state and the state line, or
International boundary is not crossed.

The Bill of Lading will be an indicator as to whether a shipment or commodity is interstate or intrastate. If there is not a Bill of Lading then the origin and destination of the shipment will be an indicator.

WRONG!!!!!!
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jrs.landscaping
01-19-2013, 04:40 PM
WRONG!!!!!!
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How did you get your CDL? He posted the laws for his state VERBATIM and you say he's wrong? Take out your book and study again :waving:

PlantscapeSolutions
01-19-2013, 04:57 PM
How did you get your CDL? He posted the laws for his state VERBATIM and you say he's wrong? Take out your book and study again :waving:

The rules posted are correct but after looking back there does appear to be some lingo else where about the trailer needing to be over 10K GWR. I don't deal with a medium duty truck pulling a light duty trailer so this is not something I have to deal with. It is also not something you will find on the CDL exam here in TX or likely else where.

I'm from Augusta, ME myself. Maine is not a state where it's easy to make a lot of money. If I told potential clients back home the labor rate was $37.50 an hour it wouldn't go over very well. November thru April is a tough stretch up north as well. Year round work down south is a huge benefit.

Landrus2
01-19-2013, 04:58 PM
In my opinion is just better to have a class B. at some point we all combine truck and trailer weight to be over limit you don't want DOT to stop you and you out of class:waving:

jrs.landscaping
01-19-2013, 05:09 PM
In my opinion is just better to have a class B. at some point we all combine truck and trailer weight to be over limit you don't want DOT to stop you and you out of class:waving:

Happened to me 2 years ago, got pulled over with a 450 hauling a 7 ton equipment trailer. The cop called it a learning experience. I'm glad he did, the fine was over 5k and I would have lost my license for 30 days :cry:

PlantscapeSolutions
01-19-2013, 05:48 PM
In my opinion is just better to have a class B. at some point we all combine truck and trailer weight to be over limit you don't want DOT to stop you and you out of class:waving:

In Texas it's the class A CDL that you would want the most. The class A will allow you to drive a 18 wheeler (with air brakes endorsement) or any F750 type medium duty truck with a trailer that you could want. I drive a 09' Ram 3500 dually and pull a 21' triple 7K axle gooseneck and a 20' tandem dually dump trailer rated at 25K.

Weights and measures police here really seem to concentrate on dump trucks and 18 wheelers. Most guys try hard to stay away from getting into CDL territory but I don't find it's a big deal.

CLARK LAWN
01-19-2013, 07:22 PM
How did you get your CDL? He posted the laws for his state VERBATIM and you say he's wrong? Take out your book and study again :waving:

He edited it to make his point. The laws are FEDERAL and do not vary from state to state. I have had my Class A CDL since the early nineties and o know how to read and follow a flow chart.
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CLARK LAWN
01-19-2013, 07:28 PM
Happened to me 2 years ago, got pulled over with a 450 hauling a 7 ton equipment trailer. The cop called it a learning experience. I'm glad he did, the fine was over 5k and I would have lost my license for 30 days :cry:

Class B wouldn't have helped you a bit.
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PlantscapeSolutions
01-19-2013, 08:25 PM
Happened to me 2 years ago, got pulled over with a 450 hauling a 7 ton equipment trailer. The cop called it a learning experience. I'm glad he did, the fine was over 5k and I would have lost my license for 30 days :cry:

I would think with trucking being in your company name you would have a CDL and a USDOT number as well. I would assume this was why the ticket could have been so large. Here in Texas the wrong class of license will get you a $1500 tickets but violating USDOT laws is probably a much bigger violation.

I know someone here who was using his status as a farmer to avoid having to have a CDL for his steel company as well. Weights and measures threw the book at him. For true farm use trucks in Texas you can operate within 150 miles of your farm without a CDL. This may be a federal law as well.

jrs.landscaping
01-19-2013, 09:01 PM
Class B wouldn't have helped you a bit.
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Funny that's what the cop told me, with my class B I was out of class because the trailer was over 10k and the combination exceeded 26k. Two days later we had a deckover rated for 9,950 lbs and parked the equipment trailer.

CLARK LAWN
01-19-2013, 09:05 PM
Then you would've needed a Class A
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jrs.landscaping
01-19-2013, 09:07 PM
Then you would've needed a Class A
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Really? I never would have guessed you need a combination license to pull a combination CMV :hammerhead:

Duffster
01-20-2013, 08:50 AM
How did you get your CDL? He posted the laws for his state VERBATIM and you say he's wrong? Take out your book and study again :waving:

You may want to srtudy again as Clark is correct.

In my opinion is just better to have a class B. at some point we all combine truck and trailer weight to be over limit you don't want DOT to stop you and you out of class:waving:

A "B" would be just about worthless then wouldn't?

Really? I never would have guessed you need a combination license to pull a combination CMV :hammerhead:

Well you obviously didn't know.

You bought a different trailer instead of just getting the license?

jrs.landscaping
01-20-2013, 11:12 AM
You may want to srtudy again as Clark is correct.



A "B" would be just about worthless then wouldn't?



Well you obviously didn't know.

You bought a different trailer instead of just getting the license?

No, I did it to avoid DOT compliance laws. We operate intrastate only and are not required to have DOT #'s/fuel tax tracking/truck logs/IFTA registration/random drug pooling/training other driver who do not have a CDL etc.... That's why we purchased another trailer Thumbs Up

What part was I incorrect about CDL requirements?

Duffster
01-20-2013, 11:21 AM
What part was I incorrect about CDL requirements?

Telling Clark to study. :hammerhead:

jrs.landscaping
01-20-2013, 11:25 AM
Telling Clark to study. :hammerhead:


:laugh: :drinkup:

Got me on that one.

david bailey
01-20-2013, 12:46 PM
thats a lot of money to get around a license. My CDL-A was pretty cheap compared to a change in equipment or a fine for being improper.

Plus side-I can haul/drive anything I might need to do a job. downside-.04 all the time so drinking is done carefully

jrs.landscaping
01-20-2013, 12:54 PM
thats a lot of money to get around a license. My CDL-A was pretty cheap compared to a change in equipment or a fine for being improper.

Plus side-I can haul/drive anything I might need to do a job. downside-.04 all the time so drinking is done carefully

So you'd pay to train 3 other drivers to get a CDL, or limit the truck trailer combo to one driver in place of buying a trailer anyone in the company can operate? If I was hauling a 10/20 ton tag I would agree, but hauling an extra 5k lbs? The money was well spent on the new trailer.

david bailey
01-20-2013, 01:06 PM
I have trained some guys to get their CDL and let them use my 750 and 10 ton deck over to do the driving exam. I don't really have employees so my situation is different but I would rather have qualified people than taking a chance. The guys I share my lot with got busted because of a trailer with no tail lights. Once the officer dug a little he found a bunch of other infractions to fine them for. One being no CDL driving a 650 pulling a 7t trailer that was overweight(gross and axle) with defective equipment.
My bizz is a little different and I guess the costs is there but I see as a way to get and keep qualified help. If they have a CDL they prolly already know how to operate equipment and drive a dump truck

jrs.landscaping
01-20-2013, 01:14 PM
We really only run two setups, a 16' utility trailer and a 20' deckover. They are hooked to either a 350 or 450. I know where you're coming from, if we had an install crew who were moving equipment all the time I would have done things differently.