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andersman02
01-07-2013, 05:46 PM
I am preparing my first paver project and looking for some advice on the design. Its a pretty simple design, they just want some more sitting area around the grill and possibly a place for a movable fire place. Could you guys critique a couple mock up designs I've done. Cost is a factor so I didnt get to fancy. Most likely will be using some sort of cobble look i.e. Anchor Kingston.

The first one will use a circle kit along with an area for the BBQ.
The second is a bit larger, simple concurve look.

Both with have a rectanglular soldier course.

My estimated cost of the circle design is roughly 2500.00
For the concurve its 3100.00 roughly

A few things:

-They have a deck with stairs leading to the yard. They do not want to move the steps (I told them this would be best) and want the patio on the right of the deck
- I was tossing around the idea of a 2-3' planting buffer between the deck and patio to hide the underside and footings of the deck, also to move people to the stairs instead of hopping off the deck (dont want Mr. to get cocky with a plate full of burgers and trip hopping up)
- There is a 2.5' overhang, I was thinking doing a 2.5 buffer of rock or mulch and some drought/shade tolerant perennials

Let me have it, these people are family friends also

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee469/andersman02/2013-01-07162943.jpg
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee469/andersman02/2013-01-07162401.jpg

These are really rough drawings, not ready to present but you get the picture

andersman02
01-07-2013, 05:58 PM
Forgot heres a picture within a picture of some pictures of the house :rolleyes:

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee469/andersman02/Halloween/2013-01-07165221.jpg

alldayrj
01-07-2013, 06:19 PM
I prefer the second design. More usable SF
They need a second set of steps or move the existing.
Buffer area is a good idea
How many SF is each design and how is the access to the area? What equip do you have?
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DVS Hardscaper
01-07-2013, 06:58 PM
i dunno bout any of the designs.

the existing deck is hideous. plopping a patio beside it will look tacky.

talk them into taking the deck down.

DVS Hardscaper
01-07-2013, 07:01 PM
and if the (hideous) deck must stay - then there should be steps built on the side of the deck (steps the same length as the deck) leading to the patio. the little 3-footers on the end have no architectural aspects

andersman02
01-07-2013, 07:46 PM
Ill try to sell them on new steps, taking down the deck would be uneconomical for them unfortunatly. Luckily they know its hideous and are going to paint it so trying to sell them on new steps shouldn't be to hard. Also helps i have a friend that does decking even though steps wouldnt be to hard. Then maybe even cutting the walkway to save them $$ (make up for the steps if they wanted)

I beleive the concurved design would be 180 sf w/o the walk, 160sf ish with the buffer. The one reason i like the buffer is you can see below the deck quite easily

Question. If you ended up doing a simple 4' wide step (i know, ugly) do you build around the step or build under the step?

alldayrj
01-07-2013, 08:41 PM
I go under, it looks more finished. If they don't want to landscape between hideous mcdeck and the patio you could install lattice after to complete the look
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andersman02
01-07-2013, 08:55 PM
I go under, it looks more finished. If they don't want to landscape between hideous mcdeck and the patio you could install lattice after to complete the look
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thats good! thanks for the idea

CowboysLawnCareDelaware
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
Use the "plastic" polymer lattice, it looks much better and lasts longer than wooden lattice.

-Michael

DVS Hardscaper
01-07-2013, 09:59 PM
i bet they have a nice big TV inside

zedosix
01-07-2013, 10:28 PM
I don't like the bulbous patio, it really doesn't look right with the square deck. Plus its a waste of brick with the tapered ends. The walkway doesn't flow well either. A quality job starts with a quality design. Work with rectangles and right edges instead of the curves. Saves you a bunch of time and they get more for the money.

Birchwood
01-07-2013, 11:23 PM
I like the first layout. Add steps off of the deck off to the side of the patio the same size of the area there, keep the circle but drop the little bump by the fence, keep it a smooth circle. Hope that makes sense. Drop the walk it doesn't work with either.

PaperCutter
01-08-2013, 12:42 AM
You're making it more complicated than it needs to be. If you *have* to work with those deck steps, asking a user to walk down them, turn hard right, and then shwank back towards the house doesn't make sense. Why not have a bigger planting area against the house and slide the whole patio forward? Then you're flowing down into the patio and eliminating the dinky problematic little lead walk.

neighborguy
01-08-2013, 09:55 AM
I think the second design makes best use of space and looks best. Agree with everyone about adding steps towards the patio, the walkway would be way too awkward. If they have to keep the deck; at least you are not cutting off access to replace it later. By putting the patio in the corner; they can still easily access the deck to replace it later.

andersman02
01-08-2013, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the input guys, a couple things.

- there is a gate along the fence that leads to the driveway right in front of the garage, thats what the extra patio area is along the right side on the circle pattern.
- I wanted them to be able to use this during the winter so i wanted to create a complete paver walk way from the fence to the deck, she originally didnt want to do new steps, but i think i can get her to go with that idea instead of an awkward walkway (it definately is awkward) and it wouldnt be much of a price difference either, probly would save her $$
- she brought up the idea of using simple flagstone for the walkway and between the fence and patio, yes it would be cheaper but also a nightmare to shovel in the winter so i got her off that idea.
- i like the idea of bringing out the patio farther into the yard but there are a few things that wouldn't allow this.

another thing, there is a downspout as you can see in the top right corner between the house and fence, i brought up the idea of a rain barrel there because, otherwise the water will flow off the patio and that could be bad news in the future. She really liked that.

Would another easy way to deal with this be simply having the downspout go under the fence onto the driveway? I think there should be enough room under to do this and it would be more cost friendly

andersman02
01-08-2013, 11:37 AM
mmmmmmmm also for pricing, heres a few things

- we have a dump for all the materials, also have a skid steer but the gate is too small for it
- could rent a dingo for one day to help excavation and bring in the base (plan would be to get everything ready for excavation, excavate for 6" base, sand and pavers and possibly start to bring in base the first day) so i could rent one. One main reason id like to is because currently there is a lot of old river rock that needs to be taken out (she wants it put in the far back yard, even though itll be dirty) and that could be hell to do with a shovel, excavation wouldnt be to bad without the dingo, same with bringin in class 5
-we can back the dump right up to the gate entrance
- we have a jumping jack but would need a plate compactor, would you guys say its ok to compact the base with a jumping jack or no? ive heard different opinions

so over all the only things needed to rent are compactor and possibly dingo (if you think its worth it)

DVS Hardscaper
01-08-2013, 01:34 PM
Take the gate apart and use skid loader
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DVS Hardscaper
01-08-2013, 01:36 PM
And I agree with the others - get rid of the radiuses, they're taking up useable square footage. Make it square.
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DVS Hardscaper
01-08-2013, 01:49 PM
No rain barrels. They need emptied. People don't even clean their clothes dryer vents and change their furnace filters. They certainly won't fool with a rain barrel.
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andersman02
01-08-2013, 03:21 PM
Take the gate apart and use skid loader
Posted via Mobile Device

And I agree with the others - get rid of the radiuses, they're taking up useable square footage. Make it square.
Posted via Mobile Device

No rain barrels. They need emptied. People don't even clean their clothes dryer vents and change their furnace filters. They certainly won't fool with a rain barrel.
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Ill have to take a second visit to see if taking down a part of the fence will be possible, I think ill originally present with a square patio, making points that it should be a little cheaper per sq ft due to less cutting on top of more usable space. Then open them to the other ideas that are most costly.

For the rain barrel ill also try and explain to them about emptying. Although the ones I was planning on using have a spigot at the bottom to use for watering plants (not sure how it would work as theres no pump and its working off gravity) and there is also a overflow on it so im not sure how much emptying will be involved. Either way its a unnecessary cost to them and they could always add one later on.

CowboysLawnCareDelaware
01-08-2013, 11:50 PM
On second thought,

Charge them $250 to tear out the whole deck, if you know the basics it should only take 2-3 hours to remove Everything and then you have maybe $50 in a Landfill trip (included in $250). Then you can lay a nice rectangular patio and have 2 or 3 wooden steps come down from the back door.

It saves them hours of sanding the deck(which they probably weren't going to do anyway. Plus the $50 worth of paint.

Save the old steps that way you have an outline to use incase you don't know how to make steps.

-Michael

alldayrj
01-09-2013, 12:12 AM
If he went that far i would hope he could make some nice brick or block steps
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CowboysLawnCareDelaware
01-09-2013, 12:25 AM
It's his first, or one of his first jobs, just stick with the basics and don't worry about the steps unless you really know what your doing, AND the owners are okay with the additional cost.

Where are you located?

-Michael

andersman02
01-09-2013, 03:26 PM
we are in bloomington MN