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arl250
01-11-2013, 09:27 AM
I have been looking at mowers for awhile now and after i added up how much gas I ran through my current mowers this year I'm thinking diesel.. but they have always been way to heavy for me. While at my local dealer yesterday I was checking out either a turf tiger or tiger cat not sure which one yet.. but then he showed me the Kubota zd221 it is the same weight as turf tiger and said he could sale it for around10500 only thing is I'd have to go down to a 54 inch deck to get it but would it be worth it in fuel savings and longevity? I have 60 inch now and was planning to get a 61 in tt or tiger cat... what do I do?
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TMAC669
01-11-2013, 10:05 AM
Buy the Scag Turf Tiger with the 29HP fuel injected Kawasaki engine. I hear it sips the fuel and the cut quality is much better than the Kubota.

LandFakers
01-11-2013, 10:34 AM
Well if you worried about weight and having a 60" deck than I would get either the tiger cat or cheetah. I believe both those models are less weight than the TT and a ZD with a 60 and diesel motor. All the mowers are known to cut well and last so you can't really go wrong either way
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arl250
01-11-2013, 11:37 AM
Well I'm leaning towards the tt but knowing I can get a diesel and it be the same weight as a tt has really got me thinking.... only thing I have against the tt is its huge I like more of a compact mower and the zd221 and tiger cat are just that... but then with either of those I know productivity is going to suffer
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TriCountyLawn
01-11-2013, 11:46 AM
Diesel Turf Tiger for the Win ?

LandFakers
01-11-2013, 12:00 PM
Don't like the cheetah? Kind of the best of both worlds
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arl250
01-11-2013, 01:08 PM
Idk I'm just not to crazy bout the cheetah seems to me it just has to much to wear out... and as for the diesel tt its just to heavy and expensive for me
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WREBELMACHINE
01-11-2013, 05:43 PM
check out the massey ferguson thread.

arl250
01-11-2013, 06:04 PM
Well I could but I don't have a dealer near me
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arl250
01-11-2013, 08:24 PM
Also if I got the tt ive read so many good things about the vanguard35 hp what do you guys think
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LandFakers
01-11-2013, 08:32 PM
Well the TT is a great mower, but you were concerned about fuel and the Vanguard wont help you anywhere there.

arl250
01-11-2013, 08:44 PM
Yea that's my only issue with that engine... but i also read on here that the vanguard isn't to bad because it has so much power it never has to work hard
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LandFakers
01-11-2013, 09:53 PM
From what I can tell, its about 2 gph no matter what your cutting... Long or short it is very linear in its fuel consumption

arl250
01-11-2013, 10:38 PM
One guy posted on here that he was getting1.4 gph which was hard to believe but ive never had one so idk
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arl250
01-13-2013, 08:47 AM
Any more thoughts on these mowers? Do you think there is going to be a big difference in productivity between the 61 in tt and the zd221 with a 54in deck?
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JCLawn and more
01-13-2013, 09:19 AM
The tt is going to beat the zd221 with no question but the zd326 or the zd331 is going to beat the tt in productivity. I have a zd326 and no issues for 750hrs. Its a good 4000+ hrs machine. I got mine for $12,800 a tt diesel will set you back closer to 18 big ones and my kubota never sucks more than 1gph
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arl250
01-13-2013, 09:31 AM
Do you have any issues with weight and it sticking to hillsides?
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JCLawn and more
01-13-2013, 09:41 AM
It will stick to a hill as much as the turf will hold. It won't slide on the grass but I have had turf give away under my tires on hills that are over 60 degree hills and getting to the feeling of a roll over. Rutting is not worse than any other mower because the foot print is so large.
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djagusch
01-13-2013, 10:00 AM
Any more thoughts on these mowers? Do you think there is going to be a big difference in productivity between the 61 in tt and the zd221 with a 54in deck?
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Ask yourself. Is fuel a larger concern than labor costs?

Your fuel usage for the TT w/35hp briggs is on ave 1.8 gal/hr. Buddy has a zd331 w/ 60" deck gets .9gal/hr. So about half the amount of fuel but at a greater cost (in mn its 25% right now). $5.40 gas to $3.60 desiel currently. $1.40/hr difference.

54" deck is 11.5% smaller than a 61". It's a larger percentage after you figure cut width after overlap while the 7" deck size difference stays the same.

Let's say you have a employee costing you on ave $15/hr ($11/hr plus fica/ work comp/etc). 11% of that is $1.65/hr

You also need to look at the cost of running the mower and don't want to calculate it out. But my buddy with the zd331 always said kubota parts are not as unversal as scag/exmark/toro. Always kubota parts very little aftermarket parts on them.

I know my fuel for mowers/handhelds/etc is less than 3% of sales. I would think there would be larger savings somewhere else in your operation.

Fyi buddy with the zd331 (actually had 3) was running kubotas for over 10yrs and all 3trucks where diesel til this year. Sold a kubota to try a exmark and is happy. Traded a 07 cummings for 2012 hemi and is happy there also.

If everything in operations is super good. Look at propane as a way to save money on fuel. $1.40/gal, uses a ratio of 1.3 propane to 1 gas.
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arl250
01-13-2013, 12:42 PM
Very good point made here... thanks everyone for all of your input still not sure which I'm going to choose I'm planning to demo them both but I believe now I'm leaning toward the tt
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JCLawn and more
01-13-2013, 12:48 PM
Ok is your gonna compare apples to apples a zd 221 is gonna use 3/4 gph and you would have to have a 35hp vangard bb to keep up with a zd331 and off road disel is usually 10 cents cheaper than gas. At 4000 hrs you would save a little bit more than $13,000 in fuel alone and if you add maintenance your looking at 14-15 grand over 4000 hrs. This is not adding the productivity of a diesel in either.
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arl250
01-13-2013, 12:54 PM
When you put it that way that's alot of money saved... I'm going to have to visit the dealer again to check the zd331 out they weren't really pushing them because it was such a heavy machine and he claims that it wouldn't do good at all on a hillside
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JCLawn and more
01-13-2013, 01:04 PM
When you put it that way that's alot of money saved... I'm going to have to visit the dealer again to check the zd331 out they weren't really pushing them because it was such a heavy machine and he claims that it wouldn't do good at all on a hillside
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You have about over 1000lbs on 2 wheels and its a low center of gravity. I can do a 180 backing up a hill and I'm gonna say past a 45 degree slope. Most all the weight is on the rears. I even used mine snow plowing small parking lots. Also the smoothness of the hydos is a big plus and no belts! So nothing slacks up over time
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LandFakers
01-13-2013, 02:54 PM
My 1000 pound Lazer is like a goat on hills. If it can run up and down hills, stop and turn around in the middle, and all the rest, im sure the much heavier Kubota will have 0 problems with it. Gotta make sure your running the right air pressure and if need be drop it on certain areas

Sharps_lawn&landscaping
01-17-2013, 03:25 AM
I have a 35hp Tt and its not near as bad on gas. It's around 1.6 to 1.8 gph normally. It's had a ton of power which saves you time cutting thick grass. A lot more productive than my 29 efi Tt. Now it's the air cooled big block. The liquid cooled which they no longer put in them was a gas hog. Almost 3 gph.

LandFakers
01-17-2013, 07:39 AM
1.6 isn't too bad for a 35!! I thought they eat much more than that.
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arl250
01-17-2013, 07:49 AM
I thought they did too but ive done my share of searching and that's what I'm finding on here so hopefully these guys are right because I'm about to pull the trigger and the vanguard is what I'm leaning toward
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LandFakers
01-17-2013, 07:51 AM
What kind or price you getting? If you don't mind me asking
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arl250
01-17-2013, 08:09 AM
I think its a little higher that some but we have an excellent dealer but I'm getting the big block for 10900 or the kohler 27 hp for 10400 both have suspension seat and flat free front tires I was going to get the 31 hp kohler efi in a demo unit for 10000 but after I went to check it out it was in a little worse condition than I'd like looked like it had been demoed pretty hard
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LandFakers
01-17-2013, 08:22 AM
That's a real good price! I jump on either one, but that extra power for 500 more is great. Those 35's are supposed to last forever seeing as they don't ever have much of a load on them under most conditions. Good luck and throw up a picture when you get it
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arl250
01-17-2013, 08:32 AM
Yea ive read on here that them vanguard engines are bulletproof and they are simple to work on and are just pure raw horse power.... and yes I will post pics will probably be first of next week when I get it
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