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EARTH5
01-20-2013, 06:58 PM
I gave my laser z hp engine to a friend to rebuild. It's a Kawasaki fh680 v 23 hp. Well he is a professional motorcycle mechanic and took the entire engine apart and started making a parts list which I ordered all except what he called crank or main bearings.
I looked online and figured out that they don't have a main bearing on crankshaft instead a sleeve that fits in the cases and the crank rides on that.
So my problem remains he removed only one of these ( thank god) and Kawasaki doesn't offer it as a separate part. They want you to buy the entire case for $450.
Does anyone know where I can find that sleeve/ bearing or any other help or solutions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :dizzy:

pugs
01-21-2013, 09:31 AM
There was a post on this a while back. I forget what the outcome ended up being but try doing a search in this particular forum(Mechanic and Repair).

Honestly if those are in need of replacing its time for a new engine.

laman
01-21-2013, 12:11 PM
how many hours on this engine?

ricky86
01-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Did he remove it, or did it fall out during teardown? If it fell out, I'm with Pugs. New engine.

D C
01-22-2013, 07:47 AM
Did he remove it, or did it fall out during teardown? If it fell out, I'm with Pugs. New engine.

If you're doing a rebuild and can replace the worn bushing, what is gained by spending a LOT more on a new engine?

D C
01-22-2013, 08:08 AM
Here's a past thread with good info on the topic: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=231911

pugs
01-22-2013, 03:10 PM
If you're doing a rebuild and can replace the worn bushing, what is gained by spending a LOT more on a new engine?

A 3 year warranty. A new starter motor. A new carb with all new linkages and no wear on the shafts or body. I would hope the engine rebuilder would be installing new valves and cutting the seats but who knows...so a new engine would have all of that new.

Also the newer engines have a better system of oiling that upper bushing that seems to be a problem in the older ones where they oiled it through the crankshaft instead of through the block as on the newer versions.

piston slapper
01-22-2013, 03:31 PM
Did he remove it, or did it fall out during teardown? If it fell out, I'm with Pugs. New engine.

I'm with you guys on this one....
If the bushing fell out of the block during disassembly....its junk...
The gearset would have wear issues ..and the rods would be sloppy..
A Boomerang engine...any re used parts would come back on you...

teckjohn
01-22-2013, 06:15 PM
Go here to buy your bushing
http://tewarehouse.com/921397009

here is where I posted it last time
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=385586

http://zeroturnman.com/25kit.jpg

teckjohn
01-22-2013, 06:30 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/Crook038/DSCN4357.jpg

piston slapper
01-22-2013, 06:30 PM
Sooooooo.....you are saying to go ahead and replace the bushing...
If the block was worn to the point that the bushing fell out.???

teckjohn
01-22-2013, 06:34 PM
Quoted from the poster I gave my laser z hp engine to a friend to rebuild. It's a Kawasaki fh680 v 23 hp. Well he is a professional motorcycle mechanic and took the entire engine apart and started making a parts list which I ordered all except what he called crank or main bearings.
I looked online and figured out that they don't have a main bearing on crankshaft instead a sleeve that fits in the cases and the crank rides on that.
So my problem remains he removed only one of these ( thank god) and Kawasaki doesn't offer it as a separate part. They want you to buy the entire case for $450.
Does anyone know where I can find that sleeve/ bearing or any other help or solutions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Quote

piston slapper
01-22-2013, 06:53 PM
I read the same thing....
So you don't want to answer the question....

You guys take this one....long workday...not up for semantics...

BigFish
01-22-2013, 07:07 PM
Sooooooo.....you are saying to go ahead and replace the bushing...
If the block was worn to the point that the bushing fell out.???

Ain't nobody said the bushing fell out!!!!! Where'd you get that at????
The OP said his guy knocked it out, is all.

I've replaced a couple or two over the years and never had a problem.

BigFish
01-22-2013, 07:22 PM
Ain't nobody said the bushing fell out!!!!! Where'd you get that at????
The OP said his guy knocked it out, is all.

I've replaced a couple or two over the years and never had a problem.

Actually the OP said his guy removed it. Which to me, means it was in the case.

piston slapper
01-22-2013, 07:25 PM
Did he remove it, or did it fall out during teardown? If it fell out, I'm with Pugs. New engine.

Cmon Fish...I don't make this stuff up....

As Earth5 has neither confirmed or denied the ease in which thr bushing was REMOVED...
My question remains hypothetical....and unanswered...

Landrus2
01-22-2013, 07:31 PM
[QUOTE=teckjohn;4652747]Go here to buy your bushing
http://tewarehouse.com/921397009

here is where I posted it last time

Great work John you seem to be ahead of everyone :waving:

BigFish
01-22-2013, 07:37 PM
[QUOTE=teckjohn;4652747]Go here to buy your bushing
http://tewarehouse.com/921397009

here is where I posted it last time

Great work John you seem to be ahead of everyone :waving:

Did you not read DC's post from this morning??? I'd say he's the one who be way ahead. In fact, TJ's pic of the bushing came from the thread that DC linked to!!!

piston slapper
01-22-2013, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=joesimoes2;4652859]

Did you not read DC's post from this morning??? I'd say he's the one who be way ahead. In fact, TJ's pic of the bushing came from the thread that DC linked to!!!

Looks like you were way ahead....of those that were way ahead...

Landrus2
01-22-2013, 07:56 PM
[QUOTE=BigFish;4652867]

Looks like you were way ahead....of those that were way ahead...

God gave us the road to share stop runing over everyone :drinkup:

piston slapper
01-22-2013, 08:08 PM
[QUOTE=piston slapper;4652881]

God gave us the road to share stop runing over everyone :drinkup:

God created all men as equals....I measure with the same stick...

teckjohn
01-22-2013, 08:10 PM
Mine were in the package and couldnt get a good view. So to make the children happy I opened it. End of story. I was trying to help the poster, not satisfy the Kids.
http://zeroturnman.com/DSC08204.JPG
http://zeroturnman.com/DSC08206.JPG

D C
01-22-2013, 10:05 PM
On a related note, does anyone know what the design gap is between the bushing/bearing and the crank? or to put it another why, what are the respective diameters of the crank and bushing ID?

It's not likely that Kaw is going to design a brand new, never before seen, bushing for this application, so it should be a standard part. (Plain PAP bearing 4020 from what I have gathered. 40mm ID, 20mm width, 44mm OD)

Excess crank wear beyond tolerances is the only thing that would make bushing replacement insufficient in a rebuild. A worn crank around the rods should be the only other reason a crank would need replacement. Though, if Kaw sells bearings for an undersized crank, that would solve that issue.

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 07:51 AM
http://zeroturnman.com/25kawcrankinfo.jpg

D C
01-23-2013, 08:00 AM
Outstanding! Thanks John!
Posted via Mobile Device

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 08:05 AM
Atleast someone likes me on here, LOL .. Just trying to help the guys.

Landrus2
01-23-2013, 08:14 AM
http://zeroturnman.com/25kawcrankinfo.jpg

Good work John :waving:

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 08:19 AM
I might need to slow down with the help. Dont want to ruffle any feathers

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 08:36 AM
you can get guides for the heads here. http://www.goodson.com/Universal-Repair-Valve-Guides/

They will have to be machined to fit
http://zeroturnman.com/25valve.jpg

pugs
01-23-2013, 01:09 PM
Go here to buy your bushing
http://tewarehouse.com/921397009

here is where I posted it last time
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=385586

http://zeroturnman.com/25kit.jpg

Just so you know the poster is working on a Vertical shaft engine. The parts may all be the same. I do not know and not going to check as I never see Horizontal shaft Kawasakis. Just wanted to point that out that some parts could be different between an FH680V and FH680D.

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 01:37 PM
http://zeroturnman.com/680v.jpg

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 01:53 PM
http://zeroturnman.com/680vb.jpg

D C
01-23-2013, 06:53 PM
A 3 year warranty. A new starter motor. A new carb with all new linkages and no wear on the shafts or body. I would hope the engine rebuilder would be installing new valves and cutting the seats but who knows...so a new engine would have all of that new.

Also the newer engines have a better system of oiling that upper bushing that seems to be a problem in the older ones where they oiled it through the crankshaft instead of through the block as on the newer versions.

Not sure what an engine builder would get for a rebuild, but as a DIYer, the difference in cost between a rebuild and a new FH680V is enormous. Looks like a rebuild should be able to be done for <$300 parts & labor for a moderate amount of machining, if required. Of course, if the crank or rods are toast, that goes up quickly and changes the cost/benefit ratio. If it came to that, and as bad as the Kaws are, I think I'd buy 2 lesser-model Kohler or Briggs engines for the same $$ and call myself ahead in the long run.

piston slapper
01-23-2013, 07:41 PM
Not sure what an engine builder would get for a rebuild, but as a DIYer, the difference in cost between a rebuild and a new FH680V is enormous. Looks like a rebuild should be able to be done for <$300 parts & labor for a moderate amount of machining, if required. Of course, if the crank or rods are toast, that goes up quickly and changes the cost/benefit ratio. If it came to that, and as bad as the Kaws are, I think I'd buy 2 lesser-model Kohler or Briggs engines for the same $$ and call myself ahead in the long run.

The going rate for rebuilding a Kawasaki twin cyl is 8 to 10 hours at shop labor rate ...plus parts..
That includes machine work and a 90 day warranty on parts and labor...
Oversizing the cylinders or grinding the crank are generally not worth doing...by the time you add the extra parts and labor involved...
Don't forget about the sales taxes. They add up quick when you get near $1000...

D C
01-24-2013, 07:17 AM
The going rate for rebuilding a Kawasaki twin cyl is 8 to 10 hours at shop labor rate ...plus parts..
That includes machine work and a 90 day warranty on parts and labor...
Oversizing the cylinders or grinding the crank are generally not worth doing...by the time you add the extra parts and labor involved...
Don't forget about the sales taxes. They add up quick when you get near $1000...

Thanks. That could certainly turn the tables against a rebuild in most cases. Especially for a Kaw (imho, based on the problems I've seen as prevalent)

Since my ZTR isn't being used as a plow this year, I think I'll dive in for a look-see in the next month or so. Thumbs Up