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View Full Version : Kohler CH16s will not start. Fuel issue.


Gulkanariver
01-21-2013, 08:59 PM
I have a Cub Cadet model 2166 with a kohler single cylinder 16 hp engine. The engine is model #CH16S with a Spec #45509. The problem started like this: I would be cutting grass and the engine would began running rough and quit. I would try to restart and it would flood out. When I would take the air filter off there would be gas poring out of the carburetor. Most of the time if it sat a little while it would start and I could cut more grass. Thought it might have been the carb So we replaced it. Still had the same issue and has gotten to the point now it won't start. I can get it to start by squirting some starting fluid into the carb. Once the starting fluid runs out it will quit. If I unhook the fuel line it will pump plenty of fuel through the line. I still replaced the fuel pump. Someone told me that it could be trash in the bowl and once it sat for a few minutes it would settle back to the bottom of the bowl and it would start. There seemed to be a lot of trash in the bowl so I did he following: cleaned out the fuel tank, replaced the gas line, put on a new kohler gas filter and put new gas in the tank. It will start as long as I squirt starting fluid in the carb. I read where the solenoid on the bottom of the carb could be bad and to check it I take it out and could screw the plug in the bottom of the carburetor to see if it would start. The plunger on solenoid looked rusty so I screwed the plug in the bottom of the carb. It still won't start unless I squirt starting fluid in the carb. Got any ideas?

teckjohn
01-23-2013, 09:55 AM
If you did, you have trash in the new carb. And is it the right filter? I have seen where a universal filter was put on and it wouldnt allow fuel to pass thru. Try cleaning the new carb first. Clean the gas can you are using and then refill it with new gas. And clean the tank on the machine and flush the lines to the carb

piston slapper
01-23-2013, 10:18 AM
Sounds like the fuel solenoid isnt operating...the plug you installed may have closed off the jet..
Put 12 pos to the solenoid terminal...and ground the side of it...it should pull in (click) when voltage is applied..
Crack loose the fuelcap to insure that its no clogged...causing the fuel to stop flowing ...
Backflow the fuel line to the fuel pump...blow air through the hose back into the tank...might have a fuelline obstruction or a kink in the hose...
Backflow the fuelhose again...this time with the fuelcap tight...just a little air...check your fuelflow..should be good..

Gulkanariver
01-23-2013, 09:28 PM
Thank you for the reply. I read on here somewhere that some Kohler engines will not run with an off brand gas filter so I purchased a Kohler gas filter from Cub Cadet. I cleaned the gas tank, replaced the gas line and filter, used a clean gas can and put fresh gas in the tank. I did the air check on the fuel tank. Everything seemed fine. I took the plug that came with the carb kit out of the bottom of the carb, put the solenoid back in and took the carb to get it cleaned or rebuilt if needed. I had already bought a rebuild kit. He said a couple of days. I'll let you know.

piston slapper
01-24-2013, 09:45 AM
They make fuel filters for basically 2 types of fuel systems...gravity feed and those with a fuel pump..
The filters for gravity feed do not filter as well...larger micron filters...to allow fuel to flow without pumping it thru it..
The filters for engines with fuel pumps have smaller micron filter media...allowing better filtering of the fuel..
Either filter will work on an engine with a fuel pump...

Gulkanariver
02-02-2013, 10:54 AM
Had the carb rebuilt and put back on. That must not have been the problem. Seems to get plenty of fuel to the carb but will only start with starter fluid sprayed in carb.

piston slapper
02-02-2013, 11:23 AM
Does it stay running after you get it started with the fluid..??

Landrus2
02-02-2013, 02:48 PM
Sounds like you have something keeping the needle from seating in the float bowl or the tip of the needle is shot. Not a big deal to pull the top of the carb off and check it out.:waving:

Patriot Services
02-02-2013, 03:28 PM
Sounds like you have something keeping the needle from seating in the float bowl or the tip of the needle is shot. Not a big deal to pull the top of the carb off and check it out.:waving:

Unless that thing has a slide throttle type carb (typical motorcycle) mounted on in it there is no top to pull off.
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Landrus2
02-02-2013, 04:27 PM
Unless that thing has a slide throttle type carb (typical motorcycle) mounted on in it there is no top to pull off.
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And if it's up side down:waving:

Patriot Services
02-02-2013, 04:30 PM
And if it's up side down:waving:

Are you attempting humor?
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Landrus2
02-02-2013, 06:03 PM
Are you attempting humor?
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Lest get back on track and don't derail the topic?:waving:

Gulkanariver
02-02-2013, 07:09 PM
It would stop running as soon as it burned all the starting fluid up. Got tired of fooling with it so I put ANOTHER new carb on it today. It started up immediately. I guess the shop that rebuilt the carb didn't know what they were doing.

piston slapper
02-02-2013, 07:33 PM
It would stop running as soon as it burned all the starting fluid up. Got tired of fooling with it so I put ANOTHER new carb on it today. It started up immediately. I guess the shop that rebuilt the carb didn't know what they were doing.

Sorry to hear that...it looks like the only thing that shop was good at...was taking your money..
I hear there's more than a few of those shops in Alabama...

Landrus2
02-02-2013, 09:00 PM
It would stop running as soon as it burned all the starting fluid up. Got tired of fooling with it so I put ANOTHER new carb on it today. It started up immediately. I guess the shop that rebuilt the carb didn't know what they were doing.

Did the shop refund you the money for the bad rebuilt.:waving:

piston slapper
02-03-2013, 10:53 AM
It is getting harder to find people that understand what makes carbs work...
Which is really something good to know when you are rebuilding one..
The cost in finding...and employing qualified technicians...is not a high priority for a lot of shops...
If they sell you a new carb...the dooboy in the shop can probably bolt it on and make it work...
Its all about money...your sales are higher when you use $8 hr help and sell new carbs..

BigFish
02-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Sorry to hear that...it looks like the only thing that shop was good at...was taking your money..
I hear there's more than a few of those shops in Alabama...

I heard the same dam thing!!!!!!

royl
05-05-2013, 09:02 PM
I'm not sure if this thread is still active.....but I am having a very similar problem on the very same engine. The engine sputters about an hour into use after it warmed up and excess fuel gathers in the bowl outside the carburetor. So much once in fact that it leaked onto the hot engine and caught fire! I must confess, I am not a landscaper and do not have a lawn business however, I have a couple acres to cut every week or so in the spring so it feels like a full time entity....but I digress.....I'm an electrical guy. I asked a fairly seasoned small engine mechanic about this and he mentioned that it could be the ignition coil....Being the electrical guy I am, I thought about this....Ignition coil windings wire is dipped in varnish at the factory...this is to insulate one winding from the next. If the coil is old, there very well may be some of the varnish that cracks due to temperature cycling over a period of time. My tractor is about 13 years old so the ignition coil certainly could be considered old. In any case, when things heat up, they expand...if a few of these windings expand and short out, (not the whole coil...but several windings). The coil can still operate normally when cold but if heated and several windings short it could send a considerably less powerful spark to the plug. This certainly could result in misfiring and excess fuel in the bowl. I have purchased a new coil and I am installing it now (MAJOR PITA on the Cub 2166). I would be happy to share the results if you guys are still interested.

Patriot Services
05-05-2013, 10:01 PM
A weak coil will not cause excess fuel to build up in a carb float bowl. Apples and oranges. Your problem is most likely a defective and sinking float or a needle valve issue. Either one will allow excess fuel to build up in the bowl and flood out through a vent or into the engine. A proper carb rebuild will likely solve your problems.
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royl
05-05-2013, 10:28 PM
The carburetor rebuild was step 1 and did not change the behavior in any way. (Yes, I was surprised too) The fuel solenoid was checked, the fuel filter is new, air filter is new and 2 shops had already looked at this and could not solve the problem. This was suggested by a fairly seasoned guy so I would hope he had seen this before he mentioned it....I thought it made sense. So if the solenoid is good, the carb has been rebuilt, there's good higher octane gas, the plug isn't fouled, and this only happens when it heats up what else is left except the ignition coil?

herler
05-06-2013, 09:40 AM
This is why I don't rebuild carburetors.

I just replace them, whole.
Yes, it's more expensive.
But less headache, too.

Patriot Services
05-07-2013, 11:19 AM
I would like to hear from some of the other top wrenches on here. This would be a first for me, having a coil cause a carb issue.
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royl
05-07-2013, 12:01 PM
FYI, I just finished the installation last night. It runs (Seems to run stronger but that could be wishful thinking). I'll see what it does in use in the next few days in real use....and I'll let you know if it solved the issue.

royl
05-11-2013, 04:23 PM
OK so a few days ago, I posted that I was told that I could probably solve this problem(same as yours) with a change of he coil. I installed it last week (no trivial matter) and got a chance to test it today. A complete success! I ran it for at least 6 hours today. Not once did it sputter. It started every time..and whenever I checked the bowl...no excess gas! I am now almost positive that this was the issue. a few more sessions should verify it for sure...but things look very encouraging!!!

royl
06-02-2013, 07:00 PM
My second run was a week ago. Ran for 8 hours, no issues...I am calling this one solved I think.

Patriot Services
06-02-2013, 09:11 PM
Congrats. I for one am still trying to figure out a bad coil causing flooding. Rich, yes. A wet plug sure, but fuel pouring out the carb. Oh well if mechanicals were easy there would be no need for good mechanics.
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royl
06-02-2013, 10:22 PM
The only thing I can think of is that it (the condition of the spark) was so bad that there was a significant amount of fuel just not getting fired....I know that sounds a little weird, you would think that if some ignites it all ignites but hey the results speak for them selves. I'm glad I spoke with that mechanic....(who by the way doesn't work on Cubs at all.....its a Kubota/Husqvarna/Stihl Dealer). (all orange ...no yellow) I was in purchasing a Stihl leafblower when just out of the blue I asked him because 2 other shops couldn't figure it out. He did say that he has seen that before and if I had exhausted all the fuel related possibilities then to give it a shot. Bought the part from Amazon for less than $50.00 ....that and about 3 hours of labor got me there.....much of the labor was trying to figure out how to get at the darned thing. But once figured out, I guess it wasn't all that bad. So Kudos to Norfolk Power Equipment in RI!!!