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Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 12:53 PM
I'm problay going to get a skid and wanted to know what's te going skid rate for tracked skid steers it would be a cat 279 I just Cana know what the going rate is for operator and skid
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Marek
01-23-2013, 12:57 PM
Around here there are guys working from 50 - 110 per hr .What type of work are you looking at doing

KrayzKajun
01-23-2013, 01:01 PM
Thts a pretty big machine for landscape work. Depends on the type of work. I charge anywhere from $85/hr to $150/hr with a 4hr minimum. Or i price the job bybthe day. To many variablse. Everybody will have a different number. What do you plan to pull this skid with?
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Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 01:28 PM
the 1500 will do it now but it wont win any races and struggle alot mayis or around their i hope to get a 2500-3500

KrayzKajun
01-23-2013, 01:31 PM
the 1500 will do it now but it wont win any races and struggle alot mayis or around their i hope to get a 2500-3500

Ummmm no. You might want to rethink that. That truck will not stop a trailer pulling that skid. Plus its illegal by DOT regulations.
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Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 01:31 PM
well its eather the 259b3 or the 279c

LandFakers
01-23-2013, 02:16 PM
What will this skid be used for? That will help you decide what size machine you will need in the first place. And you have to get a trailer to haul it around, and by the sound of it a truck aswell.

Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 02:20 PM
trailer will be bought when i buy the machine im getting a bigger truck this year.

LandFakers
01-23-2013, 02:21 PM
trailer will be bought when i buy the machine im getting a bigger truck this year.
What are you using the skid for???

Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 02:31 PM
grading ill use it on my land alot of different stuff and landscaping

LandFakers
01-23-2013, 02:33 PM
Id probably go with the 259 size machine, only interested in CAT?

711SnoPro
01-23-2013, 02:34 PM
Figure out your total cost per hour. That includes fuel, maintenance, depreciation ($ towards a future replacement machine), operator pay, etc.

With the skid steer and pusher I use for snow it's 85/hour with the minimum time charged depending on several things but typically one to two hour minimum. I wouldn't personally run for anything less than 85/hr, though you will be competing with billybobs excavating with their pos 1985 bobcat that they charge by the case of beer for. your operating costs will be higher with tracks and undercarriages as I've found doing research and with a few friends that have mtls and ctls. Don't know how much research you've done on your costs.

I wouldn't think of pulling either of those machines with a half ton. The trailer required alone is IMO too much for a half ton pickup. Let alone with a 9-11k CTL on it

Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 03:00 PM
Id probably go with the 259 size machine, only interested in CAT?

yea im only interested in cat it was gonna be bobcat but the guy rubbed me the wrong way theirs another thread about what happened

Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 03:01 PM
Figure out your total cost per hour. That includes fuel, maintenance, depreciation ($ towards a future replacement machine), operator pay, etc.

With the skid steer and pusher I use for snow it's 85/hour with the minimum time charged depending on several things but typically one to two hour minimum. I wouldn't personally run for anything less than 85/hr, though you will be competing with billybobs excavating with their pos 1985 bobcat that they charge by the case of beer for. your operating costs will be higher with tracks and undercarriages as I've found doing research and with a few friends that have mtls and ctls. Don't know how much research you've done on your costs.

I wouldn't think of pulling either of those machines with a half ton. The trailer required alone is IMO too much for a half ton pickup. Let alone with a 9-11k CTL on it

the truck rated for 6500 i believe towing ive towed about 7k and had problay about 2 k or river rock in the bed itll be overloaded for now but it should work for the short time ill be using it to tow for

Bates Lawn Care
01-23-2013, 04:28 PM
Figure out your total cost per hour. That includes fuel, maintenance, depreciation ($ towards a future replacement machine), operator pay, etc.

With the skid steer and pusher I use for snow it's 85/hour with the minimum time charged depending on several things but typically one to two hour minimum. I wouldn't personally run for anything less than 85/hr, though you will be competing with billybobs excavating with their pos 1985 bobcat that they charge by the case of beer for. your operating costs will be higher with tracks and undercarriages as I've found doing research and with a few friends that have mtls and ctls. Don't know how much research you've done on your costs.

I wouldn't think of pulling either of those machines with a half ton. The trailer required alone is IMO too much for a half ton pickup. Let alone with a 9-11k CTL on it

the truck rated for 6500 i believe towing ive towed about 7k and had problay about 2 k or river rock in the bed itll be overloaded for now but it should work for the short time ill be using it to tow for rated for 6500 means trailer and all. But if you wanna deal with DOT you go ahead and over load that 1500.

knox gsl
01-23-2013, 05:01 PM
That machine weights in at 9,000lbs plus attachments. A good trailer to haul it on is going to weight in at 2,500lbs and a bucket and forks will be another 1,200lbs. You'll need to carry fuel for it that will be another 700lbs for a 75 gallon transfer tank. Don't forget to tie all that gear down maybe 100lbs in securement gear. We are at 13,500lbs of gear just to do basic CTL work, I feel bad for your 1/2ton truck or anyone that is on the road ahead of you.

AEL
01-23-2013, 05:28 PM
I very very rarely work by the hour because if you do that is all you are going to make, but i cost my tracked machine out at minimum 110 /hr.

Towing 12-13k with a half ton is pretty crazy. I dont want to discourage you but not only is it extremely hard on your 1/2 tonne that is rated to tow half that weight, it is very very dangerous. If you happen to get into an accident and your insurance finds out , you will be in one heck of a law suit from them and the person you hurt.

Might be best to get the proper truck before you get the machine. In the end it will save you a lot of head aches and $$$

whiffyspark
01-23-2013, 05:40 PM
I was scared to pull my 4400 with bush hog with a 150 and that's half the weight of your skid steer. Find someone with a bigger truck to move it for you. It's not worth it.

Even loading the skid onto the trailer, you can pop the Parking pawl off in the transmission
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Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 06:03 PM
The only way I'm buying it is if I secure a job right down the street from my house I'd just drive it 5 mins their and back I don't plan on using it everyday so the truck situation is fine until I get a bigger one sometime spring I know I shouldent pull it with the half ton but it wouldent be pulling it all the time Mabey a few till I get a bigger truck and I need be I know people who's trucks I could tow it with
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whiffyspark
01-23-2013, 06:07 PM
5 minutes. I'd drive the skid down the street in that case lol. Im sure dealer would deliver to your house
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KrayzKajun
01-23-2013, 06:13 PM
Yur gunna go out and buy a skid for one job. Why not rent and charge accordingly.
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Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 06:45 PM
im notbuying it for one job but if i dont get this job i wont buy one the tracked machine i would rent runs me 500 a day from my cat rental place with the harley rake i would need i would get a used skid and my payment could be 600 a month it makes more sinse to me to buy and i have other jobs i could use it for also

AEL
01-23-2013, 06:51 PM
I give you lots of credit for being 14 and starting your own business. We need more young people like you, solid word of advice is to borrow the least amount of money when starting your business until you have the clientele, and work schedule to support you. It is much easier to make it through a slow slump in your business when you dont have large payments to make every month. My advise would be dont buy a machine until you have a large enough yearly rental bill to justify it, save your money and try to buy something mabee a little older and pay for it cash, or at least most of it.

Best of luck, and keep us updated.

alldayrj
01-23-2013, 07:28 PM
Easy way to do it is the rental rate for the particular machine plus the operator divided by hours. Always have a minimum.

Ps you(your dad) will kill yourself with that machine on a trailer. I would be surprised if the dealer even lets you pick it up
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Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 08:04 PM
One of my friends who's got a 250 said he'd help me out towing it until I got a bigger truck so that's not a problem now
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knox gsl
01-23-2013, 08:45 PM
One of my friends who's got a 250 said he'd help me out towing it until I got a bigger truck so that's not a problem now
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Does your friend have the proper DOT endorsements?
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Marek
01-23-2013, 09:17 PM
What numbers are they quoting you on the 259 and what options ?

Schrock Lawns
01-23-2013, 09:41 PM
What numbers are they quoting you on the 259 and what options ?

He only quoted me a 279 new with cab ac heat and the power tach thing and a gp bucket it was 70 and some change the 259 he only quoted me a used one with 800 hours and cab for 40k but with the same options as the 279 I think te 259 is 55-60 ish
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SVA_Concrete
01-24-2013, 12:53 PM
I intend this post to be polite.

Spend your 40K on education, at minimum English lessons. That will make you far more money than a skiddy bopper will.

I rented equipment for the first year and half of my business, at the year end i discovered that i was spending 25K per year on rentals. That made my decision fairly easy to purchase.

I purchased used/slightly used. Now I have a Deere CTL 322, and 50D, I paid around 50K for the pair.

Renting equipment will also force you to keep your price where it SHOULD be, when guys purchase, they end up cutting their price to get the job. They think that because the equipment is only costing ~600 per month, rather than ~250 per day. Now what about maintenance, insurance, and repairs?

You mention plowing snow, don't count on snow to make your payments in Hampton Roads. Snow tears equipment up, especially a CTL. I have one, I know.

I understand you are home schooled, I was as well. How do you plan on working that machine enough to pay for it when you have school? Using it on your land will not make you money.

Work ethic is great! Drive is great! Grow slow and profitably.

Caution you not to make a purchasing decision ever based on emotion.

jmacd
01-24-2013, 01:16 PM
Good post SVA. Just wondering how a 14 year old can get 40k to 70k dollars to buy a skid steer?

Most adults can't get that kind of credit. If he does have that kind of assets maybe he should look into spending it on a something other than a brand new skid steer.

Unless he is very wealthy and that kind of money is nothing to him or his family. If this is the case than get a good education, good schools are $40,000 per year.

Working with your hands can be tough when you get older.

jrs.landscaping
01-24-2013, 02:02 PM
One of my friends who's got a 250 said he'd help me out towing it until I got a bigger truck so that's not a problem now
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Chances are that 250 will be overloaded on the rear axle hauling the 279. $600 per month for 4 years is a HUGE commitment of capital. Good luck and personally I wouldn't dump a ton of money on a machine that has the "potential" to make money. My first skid was an 1835 Case that helped build the colonies in America. It was cheap and worked fine for what I needed it for, you don't always need an expensive piece of equipment to do the job.

stuvecorp
01-24-2013, 02:11 PM
It's great that you are ambitious but it makes no sense to buy a big skid/ctl. Go get a ASV/Terex PT30, you can pull that with what you have and you can really make a nice niche for yourself.

Schrock Lawns
01-24-2013, 02:24 PM
i wouldent be getting it my step dad owns the company so were all legal and that stuff, i basiclay just work for the company but will own it the day i turn 18 because i started it but he took over to become legal if that makes sense.
the company would apply for it and dad would cosign not me.

jrs.landscaping
01-24-2013, 02:31 PM
i wouldent be getting it my step dad owns the company so were all legal and that stuff, i basiclay just work for the company but will own it the day i turn 18 because i started it but he took over to become legal if that makes sense.
the company would apply for it and dad would cosign not me.

So you're Inc.?

Schrock Lawns
01-24-2013, 03:18 PM
Yes I'm fully licensed
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SVA_Concrete
01-24-2013, 03:29 PM
I wouldn't be getting it. My step dad owns the company so we are all legal and that stuff.
I basically just work for the company. When I turn 18 I will own the company 100%.
The company would apply for the equipment loan and dad would co-sign not me.


Easier to read..... no?

Schrock Lawns
01-24-2013, 03:31 PM
Easier to read..... no?

Oh well
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Deererunner
01-24-2013, 04:24 PM
So you're Inc.?

What he is asking, are you insured? Honestly a business license means nothing if your not insured.

Also on another note, how is it legal for a 14 year old to operate a skid steer, it's not. Doesn't matter if your dad owns the company, you do something wrong while operating it, your father is held reliable for it. The fines that could come out of it are huge. If you think it's not illegal to do,then go read OSHA.

Not bashing on you but you need to slow down your thinking. Ambition is great, getting in over your head is not.

On another note, have you ever done any gradin work, and machine operating, any other job possibilities then this "one" job?
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Schrock Lawns
01-24-2013, 05:01 PM
ive done small grading work with my uncales tractor, the first time i drove a skid i think i was 9 and ive been driving them sense. yes i do have other jobs i can use the skid for besides this one grading job, but i havent really lined any up because i dident know i was most likley going to be getting one,
as for osha yea i know its not legal but i can drive skids better then him and am very safe. as for liability insurance no should be done by the middle of febuary

jrs.landscaping
01-24-2013, 05:49 PM
I was asking if you were incorporated.... you say the business is buying the machine, so you must work for a corporation?

Schrock Lawns
01-24-2013, 06:43 PM
the business is a llc

jrs.landscaping
01-24-2013, 07:04 PM
Good to know. Good luck if you decide to purchase one, you won't go wrong with Cat. I love mine and I can't imagine how I used to do some things without it.

Schrock Lawns
01-24-2013, 08:15 PM
what model do you have?

jrs.landscaping
01-24-2013, 08:18 PM
257B3 :weightlifter:

muddywater
01-27-2013, 10:26 AM
I think it would be a neat toy for a 14 year old. The payment shouldn't be much since the kid has no overhead, lives at home, and no cost of living.

If it were me I would try to get a nice used machine for 25k or so.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAKEUCHI-TL130-LOW-HOURS-NEW-TRACKS-SUPER-NICE-MUST-SEE-/160913311584?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item25772e4760&nma=true&si=k2xKUFuEXBfjSveQSN74PjEtLW8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Takeuchi-TL140-FULL-CAB-HEAT-RUBBER-TRACK-SKID-STEER-MULTI-TERRIAN-LOADER-/300813587866?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item4609e3159a


And I think an education is important, but a work ethic is more important. How many college kids have useless degrees these days and still live at home with their parents?

I know if I went to college my net worth would be 25% if that of what is today. I have busted my rear since I was his age and I don't have regrets.

jay12
01-27-2013, 12:35 PM
Muddywater. I agree 100%. Unfortunately college does not teach people work ethic and an ability to know how to make money. I do not have a lot but I feel like I would have a lot less had I spent four years in college vs growing a business.

Well said

ksss
01-27-2013, 01:19 PM
I think it would be a neat toy for a 14 year old. The payment shouldn't be much since the kid has no overhead, lives at home, and no cost of living.

If it were me I would try to get a nice used machine for 25k or so.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TAKEUCHI-TL130-LOW-HOURS-NEW-TRACKS-SUPER-NICE-MUST-SEE-/160913311584?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item25772e4760&nma=true&si=k2xKUFuEXBfjSveQSN74PjEtLW8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Takeuchi-TL140-FULL-CAB-HEAT-RUBBER-TRACK-SKID-STEER-MULTI-TERRIAN-LOADER-/300813587866?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item4609e3159a


And I think an education is important, but a work ethic is more important. How many college kids have useless degrees these days and still live at home with their parents?

I know if I went to college my net worth would be 25% if that of what is today. I have busted my rear since I was his age and I don't have regrets.

A man (woman) with a strong work ethic will never go hungry. I think there are things you can do that may help open doors of opportunity and college, military are a couple of those doors. However a strong work ethic is the cornerstone of success. Without that, you can open as many doors as you like but you will never reach your potential.

Schrock Lawns
01-27-2013, 01:46 PM
I think what I've decided is I'm going to hold off on the skid unless the guys wants more work then I anticipated and/or I get some other jobs lined up for more skid work. I think at this point in time it would be best for my company to invest In marketing and a new truck which lettered up serves as marketing. Hopefully mid summer ill have the work to buy an skid and I feel like buying one now and it not having all the stuff I want on it ill regret it. Thanks for all your info tho guys
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ARP
01-27-2013, 03:04 PM
I think you're making the right move by getting a new truck and going after the marketing first. Don't worry, if you do things right a skid may only be the tip of the iceberg in terms or what machines you get to to play in (and pay for) in the future!

Good luck Schrock!

Daner
01-27-2013, 04:25 PM
Dragging a 8000 pound machine around on a 3/4 ton can be risky as well.
Bigger doesn't always mean better, a 5000 pound skid can fit into some tight spots and they can lift a fare amount....plus grade, run a rake etc....My advise is to get a used smaller machine and go make some profits.
Then later on down the road if you have the work get the larger machine and the proper truck and trailer to haul it. best of luck on your adventure

Schrock Lawns
01-27-2013, 06:22 PM
ill most likley get a 1 ton so towing shouldent be a problem. its eather thr 259 or 279 when i decide to get one tho

Junior M
01-27-2013, 11:00 PM
This thread makes my head hurt
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cdqat1432
01-28-2013, 12:51 AM
Sorry your thread got hijacked,280.00r. My answer to your original question is to approach equipment charges from the dealer perspective. I bid directly off of their weekly rental rates, add 12% for insurance, 7- 10 dollars/hr for fuel and then attachment rental charges. Here you go.

Bobcat t750 + bucket 1700.00 week
Attachment (rock hound) 400.00
12% ins (going rate) 252.00
40 hrs fuel@2 g/hr/3.50/g. 280.00
Delivery/pickup 125.00
Cleaning charge. 50.00

GT 2807.00 or 561.40 day or 70.00 per hour.
Never apologize for these charges. Too many guys leave equipment at 200 per day because they already "own it". Well you can't own it til you pay for it. And you can't pay for it til you charge accordingly. Don't be like so many others who can't afford repairs or lose the equipment to the bank because they left money on the table. Keep in mind that I run this equipment 4-5 days per week so these charges work for me. Also, 14 yrs is a bonus because you know that you dont know alot so you are willing to learn the right way. Good luck.

cdqat1432
01-28-2013, 12:52 AM
Sorry your thread got hijacked, Connor. My answer to your original question is to approach equipment charges from the dealer perspective. I bid directly off of their weekly rental rates, add 12% for insurance, 7- 10 dollars/hr for fuel and then attachment rental charges. Here you go.

Bobcat t750 + bucket 1700.00 week
Attachment (rock hound) 400.00
12% ins (going rate) 252.00
40 hrs fuel@2 g/hr/3.50/g. 280.00
Delivery/pickup 125.00
Cleaning charge. 50.00

GT 2807.00 or 561.40 day or 70.00 per hour.
Never apologize for these charges. Too many guys leave equipment at 200 per day because they already "own it". Well you can't own it til you pay for it. And you can't pay for it til you charge accordingly. Don't be like so many others who can't afford repairs or lose the equipment to the bank because they left money on the table. Keep in mind that I run this equipment 4-5 days per week so these charges work for me. Also, 14 yrs is a bonus because you know that you dont know alot so you are willing to learn the right way. Good luck.

cdqat1432
01-28-2013, 12:55 AM
Don't forget 35-40 an hour for yourself or employee operator. I charge 40.

Schrock Lawns
01-28-2013, 01:43 PM
Cdqat1432 thanks for your anser and not just knocking me for being 14 I've decided to get a one ton pickup now instead of 45k+ for a skid I'd problay use a few times a month
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AEL
01-28-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't think anyone here is knocking you bud. We are all just offering solid advice to help you be successful, not get hurt, or end up in a lawsuit. You have way more drive then 99 percent of kids your age which is a huge asset for you. Keep up the hard work , make good investments, don't get in over your head in debt, and I guarantee by the time you are 25 you will have a solid business and be making a great living. In the mean time take some business, and marketing courses. These will help you more then you will ever know.

Best of luck,
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Schrock Lawns
01-28-2013, 02:43 PM
Thanks TSS
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YellowDogSVC
01-28-2013, 08:00 PM
I would add that price per hour really doesn't mean much except to the penny pinchers and price shoppers.

I probably an nearly 12,000 hours in a skidsteer and additional hours in other types of machines. I have a college degree (don't mean much in my line of work), 17 years of experience, highly insured, a bunch of really productive attachments and tools, and some would say I do a good job. My price per hour can and often does get beat by someone renting a machine with half the horsepower or by a competitor who knows my basic prices. If the other guy is $10/hr cheaper but has very little experience, little care for whether or not the job looks, good, has a MUCH less productive machine and has virtually no attachments, tools nor the ability to run them, was the customer better off saving $80/day?

The reality is there a ton of people who will do that and think they got a good deal and then when they call JimBob a few months later his phone is disconnected. That's the frustrating part about pricing. I personally have kept my prices about the same for the last 4 years partly to help people out in this economy and partly because I feel comfortable there. The problem is, I get a lot of calls wanting to know what I charge per hour.. I guess some things you can just do by the hour but I prefer to work by the day or for small stuff, by the half-day. For example, I'm on a job right now where I'm going to use a tree shear, mulcher, grapple, several buckets and a compactor to start. The customer knows my day price but that price includes hauling, setup, my insurance both workman's comp and liability, my knowledge, and the use of a bunch of tools. The rental place is about $300 cheaper for smaller machine and one attachment but you never know what's available and what condition it's in. What I'm carrying tree-wise with a 9,000lb machine versus a 6,000 pound machine proves I'm a lot more productive plus I'm more flexible than a cheap guy (or someone who relies on renting what's out available) could afford to be. I charge more because I'm in that machine every day and have owned plenty just like it so I know it like the back of my hand. That knowledge is worth something too because it equals more productivity if the owner-operator is competent and I believe I fall into that category.

I understand the need to get into the market but don't be the cheap guy! Practice first and work cheap for your buddies but go into the market armed with experience and knowledge and charge a price that will allow you to grow. If you are booked solid for months either you are the best in your area and everyone wants your services or you are too cheap. Less customers paying more will allow you to breathe and grow.

Hope this helps... It can get frustrating and I wish I could figure it ALL out.. I just know what works in my case.

bobcat_ron
01-28-2013, 08:16 PM
We charge by the horsepower. 277C has 85 hp, so $85 per hour, and a bit more when applicable, like if someone refuses to pay the haul charge or the toll rate on top of the hauling, then we bump it up a bit.
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alldayrj
01-28-2013, 08:21 PM
We charge by the horsepower. 277C has 85 hp, so $85 per hour, and a bit more when applicable, like if someone refuses to pay the haul charge or the toll rate on top of the hauling, then we bump it up a bit.
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I need to get some performance upgrades to bump up the hp. I think this may be the first time money spent on performance parts is money well spent.
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bobcat_ron
01-28-2013, 08:26 PM
I need to get some performance upgrades to bump up the hp. I think this may be the first time money spent on performance parts is money well spent.
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I added a spoiler to the back of the 277C, now it's got more speed and goes like a muthaf*ka in high gear.
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YellowDogSVC
01-28-2013, 11:38 PM
don't forget to charge more for the spoiler and satellite radio, Ron. :)

excav8ter
01-29-2013, 08:13 AM
I'm at $90.00/hr. for my Taki TL130.

alldayrj
01-29-2013, 09:19 AM
Nos propane and methanol kits are en route. Plus lo pro tires and chrome rims.

Who makes the best lowering kit for a gehl 5640?

What size subwoofer do you recommend i replace the air cleaner with?
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Bigred350
01-30-2013, 09:25 AM
I ordered some crome bogie wheels and sprockets for my cat yesterday.
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Junior M
01-30-2013, 02:14 PM
I just put 22in spinners on my bobcat with a large sticker in the back window that says "22"
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alldayrj
01-30-2013, 07:25 PM
how much per hour for this guy?
http://www.plowsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122721&stc=1&d=1359577486

jrs.landscaping
01-30-2013, 08:32 PM
how much per hour for this guy?
http://www.plowsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122721&stc=1&d=1359577486

If they still run on the H pattern I couldn't charge by the hour, it would take me at least 2 hrs to get used to it again. Sweet machine, I wish it had some more chrome though Thumbs Up