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Chilehead
01-23-2013, 04:41 PM
I put some Startron (for the first time) in my 2-mix gas can along with fresh gas/oil. All ratios were proper for my equipment. I filled my blower with this mix, and not 2 minutes later, the blower dies with a lingering white smoke coming out of the muffler. it was not the bluish-white associated with 2-cycle oil, but rather white with a hint of light gray. It was also very, very hot. It would not restart.
So, back to my shop I go to investigate the problem. My first thought was that the Startron broke up all the carbon deposits inside the engine and other various parts.:dizzy: Great.
I proceed to do the following: Take muffler off/disassemble and clean thoroughly (all pieces). Take carb off/disassemble and clean thoroughly. Clean air filter (didn't really need it). Clean all seals. Put everything back together.......
I get it to start. it runs for 2 or three seconds, and then dies. it will not restart. The fuel at the pump was labeled as containing "up to 10% ethanol". My thoughts now are that the engine is all clogged up with deposits that have loosened due to the Startron. What do you all think?:dizzy:

Chilehead
01-23-2013, 10:54 PM
Bump it, man!:usflag:

rob7233
01-24-2013, 12:15 AM
Here are some of my thoughts. If you have been using E10 (Ethanol) gas then you might want to remember that Alcohol (Ethanol) in itself is a very good cleaner. From what I understand is that with older engine that have not used E10, the risk of letting loose some debris/deposits is high at the time of recent use. After some point in time with E10 use, whatever is going to come loose already has.

Try to tell us more detail about the engine and how long have you had it?

piston slapper
01-24-2013, 06:24 AM
Here are some of my thoughts. If you have been using E10 (Ethanol) gas then you might want to remember that Alcohol (Ethanol) in itself is a very good cleaner. From what I understand is that with older engine that have not used E10, the risk of letting loose some debris/deposits is high at the time of recent use. After some point in time with E10 use, whatever is going to come loose already has.

Try to tell us more detail about the engine and how long have you had it?

As I understand it...and I may be wrong...???
Startron converts any water in the fuel into a burnable alcohol that mixes in with the fuel..
If there was higher than normal amount of water already absorbed into the fuel when you pumped it in your can...it would have resulted in a leaner fuel with a higher alcohol content.
Sounds like you smoked the piston ...were there any scratches visable on the piston when you had the muffler off..???

Rob....in response to your signature....
If your vote could make a difference...they wouldn't let you do it....

Chilehead
01-24-2013, 09:27 AM
As I understand it...and I may be wrong...???
Startron converts any water in the fuel into a burnable alcohol that mixes in with the fuel..
If there was higher than normal amount of water already absorbed into the fuel when you pumped it in your can...it would have resulted in a leaner fuel with a higher alcohol content.
Sounds like you smoked the piston ...were there any scratches visable on the piston when you had the muffler off..???

Rob....in response to your signature....
If your vote could make a difference...they wouldn't let you do it....

There weren't any scratches from what I could tell--the piston looked good, but has a brushed as opposed to polished appearance. The blower is a hand-held that is 5 years old. FYI, I have OCD when it comes to equipment maintenance.:laugh:

piston slapper
01-24-2013, 09:31 AM
Check your compression...rings might be sticking.???

Nothing wrong with OCD when it comes to maintenance...

Chilehead
01-24-2013, 09:56 AM
Check your compression...rings might be sticking.???

Nothing wrong with OCD when it comes to maintenance...

Thanks. Yeah, I think I am going to take apart the whole engine tomorrow (it's supposed to rain). I have to go to work right now, so I'll be back with an update.

Valk
01-24-2013, 11:39 AM
I learned, the HARD way of course, NOT to run Startron in my 2-strokes. I was finding chunks of carbon in the sparkplug gap. No issues with Seafoam in my 2-strokes, fwiw. And no issues with Startron in my 4-strokes...including my truck.

Chilehead
01-24-2013, 06:22 PM
I learned, the HARD way of course, NOT to run Startron in my 2-strokes. I was finding chunks of carbon in the sparkplug gap. No issues with Seafoam in my 2-strokes, fwiw. And no issues with Startron in my 4-strokes...including my truck.

Thanks for the heads up. I don't think Startron is a bad product for 2-strokes if used from when an engine is new. On the other hand, you take a 5-year-old blower like mine, and infuse it with that stuff--you're going to have problems. It makes sense.

Valk
01-25-2013, 11:04 AM
Startron's tag is the inclusion/use of enzymes, fwiw. And IFF these enzymes are actually useful for knocking loose carbon deposits, then it would seem like one should use it with every tank - since 2-strokes are inherently more carbon-prone.

Jason Rose
01-25-2013, 10:10 PM
I used Startron for several months religiously and as per the instructions in ALL of my 2 stroke equipment 2 summers ago (for about 2 months total). 1. it caused no problems that I could note in anything. 2. it solved NOTHING. Frankly, regardless of the claims on the website and the bottle, I think it's just another "snake-oil" sold to lighten your wallet. Only solution I found to the problems I was having with out Ethanol laden fuel was to source fuel that was ethanol free. Problems solved!

As for the mysterious problem the OP had, well I'm rather curious as to what's found there... Seems VERY odd that startron or any other "magic stuff in a bottle" could cause a catastrophic failure in just a couple minutes. You DID use your usual 2 stroke oil mix too, right?

Chilehead
01-25-2013, 10:23 PM
I used Startron for several months religiously and as per the instructions in ALL of my 2 stroke equipment 2 summers ago (for about 2 months total). 1. it caused no problems that I could note in anything. 2. it solved NOTHING. Frankly, regardless of the claims on the website and the bottle, I think it's just another "snake-oil" sold to lighten your wallet. Only solution I found to the problems I was having with out Ethanol laden fuel was to source fuel that was ethanol free. Problems solved!

As for the mysterious problem the OP had, well I'm rather curious as to what's found there... Seems VERY odd that startron or any other "magic stuff in a bottle" could cause a catastrophic failure in just a couple minutes. You DID use your usual 2 stroke oil mix too, right?

Yes, the proper oil/ratio was used.

Exact Rototilling
01-26-2013, 01:07 AM
Seafoam’s web site is down but the main ingredient is IPA Isopropyl Alcohol, mineral oil and naphtha.

Chilehead
01-26-2013, 09:40 AM
Seafoamís web site is down but the main ingredient is IPA Isopropyl Alcohol, mineral oil and naphtha.

Great.....all of which are much cheaper than Seafoam.

BigFish
01-26-2013, 10:38 AM
I used Startron for several months religiously and as per the instructions in ALL of my 2 stroke equipment 2 summers ago (for about 2 months total). 1. it caused no problems that I could note in anything. 2. it solved NOTHING. Frankly, regardless of the claims on the website and the bottle, I think it's just another "snake-oil" sold to lighten your wallet. Only solution I found to the problems I was having with out Ethanol laden fuel was to source fuel that was ethanol free. Problems solved!

As for the mysterious problem the OP had, well I'm rather curious as to what's found there... Seems VERY odd that startron or any other "magic stuff in a bottle" could cause a catastrophic failure in just a couple minutes. You DID use your usual 2 stroke oil mix too, right?

I would have to agree! There's no need to add anything to your 2cycle mix! Just use good, name branded oil, is all. Read the label! Most, if not all, of the good oil already contains fuel stabilizers and additives.
And I ain't talkin about that high dollar stihl stuff, just read the label.

To the Chile, sounds like ya thinned out the mix and cooked the piston.

Exact Rototilling
01-26-2013, 04:49 PM
IPA is the ingredient in HEET red bottle. Works vastly better.than.yellow bottle methonal.

Remember science class. 5 units of water + 5 units of IPA = less than 10 units.
Posted via Mobile Device

newz7151
01-27-2013, 12:35 AM
I would have to agree! There's no need to add anything to your 2cycle mix! Just use good, name branded oil, is all. Read the label! Most, if not all, of the good oil already contains fuel stabilizers and additives.
And I ain't talkin about that high dollar stihl stuff, just read the label.

To the Chile, sounds like ya thinned out the mix and cooked the piston.

SO, tell me which magical oil you have found that will bond to ethanol without a proper additive to ... ..... (the word just left me) the two.

Charles
01-27-2013, 05:54 AM
I love StarTron. I have been running it for years now in everything, including Marine engines. Kohler was ticking and sputtering and Star tron cleared that up when Sea foam had no effect. Echo trimmer was surging and cutting off during hot humid days. Startron fixed that problem too. I have tested it with and without and my equipment runs noticeably better with this additive. I only use 1/4 OZ in 2.5--5 gallon cans

piston slapper
01-27-2013, 10:01 AM
Charles...faith and testimonials do not fix engines...they boost sales...
I've used Startron in boats for years..it helps keep water out of the fuel during long periods of inactivity..
Mechanics is based on science...facts that can be proved...When the makers of these products can show me what they fixed..and how they fixed it...and also give. Me a list of the things their product can't do...
Then...I may give them some credence...

Charles
01-27-2013, 10:12 AM
Charles...faith and testimonials do not fix engines...they boost sales...
I've used Startron in boats for years..it helps keep water out of the fuel during long periods of inactivity..
Mechanics is based on science...facts that can be proved...When the makers of these products can show me what they fixed..and how they fixed it...and also give. Me a list of the things their product can't do...
Then...I may give them some credence...

Well I don't have any scientific evidence, just experience using the product. The mower was ticking and sputtering. Within one week of using ST the problem started fading away until it was completely gone. Stopped using it because I thought the problem was cured. The problem came back, so I just made ST a permanent add on to fuel. Same thing with the weedeater and hedge trimmer. All were having problems even though I use 89 octane. My equipment is out of use for 2 months out of the year. I dump all the fuel after the 2 months because of dirt accumulation in the bottom of the cans ie black specs etc

Chilehead
01-27-2013, 10:39 AM
Alright people, here's what happened to my blower. It turns out there was NO lubrication inside the piston cylinder nor on the piston--dry as the Sahara. It appears to me that Startron dried out my gas-oil blend. Conversely, there were no carbon chunks anywhere on the spark plug/socket, nor in the muffler. This is my "raw data".
I bought a new blower and will only use Startron in my 4-stroke engines. My initial reason for purchasing Startron was to negate any issues that ethanol would have on my equipment. I'm sure we've all seen the photos of gummed-up parts and corroded seals that ethanol can and will cause.

BigFish
01-27-2013, 10:54 AM
Alright people, here's what happened to my blower. It turns out there was NO lubrication inside the piston cylinder nor on the piston--dry as the Sahara. It appears to me that Startron dried out my gas-oil blend. Conversely, there were no carbon chunks anywhere on the spark plug/socket, nor in the muffler. This is my "raw data".
I bought a new blower and will only use Startron in my 4-stroke engines. My initial reason for purchasing Startron was to negate any issues that ethanol would have on my equipment. I'm sure we've all seen the photos of gummed-up parts and corroded seals that ethanol can and will cause.

Do yourself a favor....forget the additives! What for?? Isn't the gas you buy expensive enough? Sheesh!!!

piston slapper
01-27-2013, 10:55 AM
OK...let me clarify the RUB I have with these magic potions...
Most of these products have some redeeming quality...if they didn't...everybody would start selling blue and green colored alcohol..
It is the vagueness of their "One Product Fixes Everything " marketing..that lures people into buying this stuff..
The idea that it fixed someone elses problem..so its worth throwing $10 at the problem to see if will fix mine...has made millions of dollars for these companies... All the time never being forthcoming about what their products can't do...
These companies have the money to research the true effects of their products...and are probably aware of their shortcomings..
Truth in advertising...along with disclosure...may cost them some sales...but it would go a long way for their credibility..

If the stuff works for you....use it....trust the power...

BigFish
01-27-2013, 11:10 AM
I've used Startron in my Shamrock boat ( inboard 302Ford ), 'cause it sits quite a bit, the same with my 77 F250 4X4 Highboy.
I can also say that I have , on several occasions, drained the 2cycle mix out of backpacks that have been sitting in the shop for like two months or more waitin' on parts, and used it in the unit I was working on, and had no problems, started right up, and ran great. No evidence of "phase separation" etc. with the old mix.
In fact, the two cycle mixed fuel is mixed and stored in like a couple hundred gallon tank! Sittin' outside, covered in snow as I type. Very little use this time of year. I don't know what brand oil they use, but I'll find out Monday.

BigFish
01-27-2013, 11:28 AM
Its been mentioned several times before: If you can get non-ethanol gas in your area, it can save you some headaches, and money. I try to use it in all my personal equip. and I generally use it in my customers stuff around my shop.

This site can steer ya to a station in your area: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

Chilehead
01-27-2013, 12:09 PM
Its been mentioned several times before: If you can get non-ethanol gas in your area, it can save you some headaches, and money. I try to use it in all my personal equip. and I generally use it in my customers stuff around my shop.

This site can steer ya to a station in your area: http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

Thanks for the link! :usflag:

ricky86
01-27-2013, 01:32 PM
Just wait till they start running on E-15.

piston slapper
01-27-2013, 01:40 PM
Just wait till they start running on E-15.

Just trying to cheer us up....Huh. Ricky.????

I've already seen what happens when you try to run E85 in these engines...
A pissed off customer...with a repair bill...

newz7151
01-27-2013, 09:24 PM
Just trying to cheer us up....Huh. Ricky.????

I've already seen what happens when you try to run E85 in these engines...
A pissed off customer...with a repair bill...

E85 with a good 2 cycle oil and the correct mix of Ethanol Shield will run a good long time. It's not great for the unit or any of its components and should not be done, but when it's been tested, it is what it is..

laman
01-27-2013, 09:42 PM
E85 is 85 percent alcohol. No small engine that I know can run this much alcohol...

Chilehead
01-28-2013, 01:18 AM
E85 is 85 percent alcohol. No small engine that I know can run this much alcohol...

This much is true.

newz7151
01-28-2013, 03:05 AM
E85 is 85 percent alcohol. No small engine that I know can run this much alcohol...

You missed the point I was trying to make concerning the B3C Ethanol Shield product. If adding that to a blower tank of E85 and 2 cycle oil can keep the blower running well beyond 3 tanks, then it's going to do just as equal a wonder when used with E10 or heaven forbid even E15. Of course this was done under test conditions with a new blower which require the carburetor be adjusted to even run that ratio, but it still shows the product works. Without the addition of the Ethanol Shield using E85, the oil won't even fully mix with the "fuel" in the tank and you end up burning up the engine in much shorter time due to lack of oil (since the oil is only able to mix with the 15% of gas that remains in an E85 blend).

Chilehead
01-28-2013, 09:12 AM
It seems to me that the logical thing to do is make one's fuel mix richer than usual when using E10. My equipment is labelled to use a 50:1 gas/oil ratio, but I may want to step it up to 40:1.....yes?

newz7151
01-29-2013, 12:07 AM
It seems to me that the logical thing to do is make one's fuel mix richer than usual when using E10. My equipment is labelled to use a 50:1 gas/oil ratio, but I may want to step it up to 40:1.....yes?

Why would you want to do that? Without using, for lack of a better word, an emulsifier, like Ethanol Shield to create a bond between the ethanol in the fuel and the 2 cycle oil, your mix is still going to be running up to 10% of the contents through your 2 cycle engine without any oil. I mean, you can do what you want, it's your equipment to protect or ruin, it's up to you. Oil will NOT bond/mix with ethanol alcohol without an additive to induce it, so you're still going to have no oil mixed with the portion of the fuel in your tank that is the ethanol. Adding more oil is just going to increase the oil mixing with the gas portion and muck up your system.

Chilehead
01-29-2013, 11:48 AM
Why would you want to do that? Without using, for lack of a better word, an emulsifier, like Ethanol Shield to create a bond between the ethanol in the fuel and the 2 cycle oil, your mix is still going to be running up to 10% of the contents through your 2 cycle engine without any oil. I mean, you can do what you want, it's your equipment to protect or ruin, it's up to you. Oil will NOT bond/mix with ethanol alcohol without an additive to induce it, so you're still going to have no oil mixed with the portion of the fuel in your tank that is the ethanol. Adding more oil is just going to increase the oil mixing with the gas portion and muck up your system.

Look, no need to be rude...it's not like I knew oil would not mix with ethanol.

newz7151
01-29-2013, 10:27 PM
Look, no need to be rude...it's not like I knew oil would not mix with ethanol.

i told you in my post 6 hours before your post stating the logical thing would be to start using 40:1 instead of 50:1. I wasn't being "rude", I simply was unaware that you did not read the newest post in the thread before posting yours.

Chilehead
01-30-2013, 08:49 AM
i told you in my post 6 hours before your post stating the logical thing would be to start using 40:1 instead of 50:1. I wasn't being "rude", I simply was unaware that you did not read the newest post in the thread before posting yours.

Then, hey....it's cool. :usflag: