To hydroseed or the standard way of seeding?

[bad_chad48]

Hello,
I am preparing a bid for a customer that wants their yard dug-up and re-planted this spring. The property is almost 3 acres. I have never used hydro befor or for that fact, I have never even seen it done before. In the past I have just used an areator/seeder and then starter furt then straw. But, I have called a guy that hydroseeds and he will do it for the same price that I was going to charge. For those of you that has used both methods, give me some feedback about hydroseeding and which way should I go and why. Or should I just seed it the same old way?
Thanks

[bad_chad48]

come on now...some of you must have some input on this. I did a search but didn't find any comparing the two.

[Premo Services]

I have never used the hydroseeders. It sounds like it would get better results though. The seed, straw, and fert all in one application. I did a slitseeding job last season, and someone mentioned to me about hydroseeding. I did it with a slit seeder and it came out very well. 3 acres is a lot of area, I might be inclined to see about hydroseeding for that.

[dougaustreim]

Hydroseeding works well in some areas depends a lot on wind and soil etc. The best case is to seed conventionally to get good seed soil contact and then hydromulch. Hydromulch seems to hold moisture much better than straw. More expensive though.

Our state does not allow hyroseeding on govt work unless the site is inacessible with conventional equipment, they do however spec a lot of hydromulch, particularly in urban settings where they do not want the mess of straw.

Doug
Austreim Landscaping

[AltaLawnCare]

Will depend a lot on the type and quality of the Hydro Seed...

Is their rig mechanical agitation, what type of slurry. any guarantees against run off? I don't know much about hydro seeding but I know there are differences in quality.

If you seed use weed-free straw....the single net rolls aren't that expensive.
:cool:

[MacKenzie]

I have NEVER seen a Hydroseeding job that I liked. I have had numerous freinds use hydroseeding, and have watched the progress of many hydroseeding jobs and I am always dissatisfied with them. I think AltaLawnCare probably makes a good point - what mix & quality of seed is the guy going to use.

Around here it seems that we have some shoddy work being done by hydroseeders. Sure it sprouts up quickly, but it doesnt seem to establish into a nice, healthy turf as time goes on. I know there are many factors to bear on this, however IMO I prefer old fashioned seeding to Hydroseeding so far.

Willing to proven wrong though...

[David Gretzmier]

since I own a hydroseeder, maybe I can answer some questions...
I have found that any seeding job is successful because of two reasons: site prep, and follow up watering. hydroseeding is no different. I have grown grass on bricks before, but without prep, i.e. good soil, it failed eventually. also, on perfect soil, even the best slurry, seed, and fert mixture in the tank is useless without proper watering or rainfall. you can ad a gel to help woth water retention, but it still needs daily water to be suceesful. sod farms know this with fescue sod.

the biggest advantages to hydroseeding are weed free mulch and speed of install after prep. with a good water source, I can apply seed, fert, mulch, to 3 acres in a good long day with an excellent water source.

If it is watered properly, it will be even, green and weed free.

The disadvantage of stray is weeds. straw is infested with wheat and other weed seed. weeds will come up, and some people actually think it is good because winter wheat is something. the straw tends to move and accumulate, and sometimes needs to be raked up in places.

If I could work a digital camera I would show you two hydroseeding jobs we did in the fall. they are weed free, dark green, and look like sod. we did the prep, shot the loads, and followed up with watering and a fertilization program. they are honestly the best looking lawns in the neighborhoods they are in , and they are in the $250k plus neighborhood.

In 1/2 tankload ( 5000sq. ft) and up, we do nothing else but hydroseed.

Dave g

[dougaustreim]

I think Dave got to the basics here. Too many people think that Hydroseeding is a replacement for the whole process rather than just the seeding and mulching phase. Good soil prep and follow up irrigation are still extremely critical.

That why I prefer the conventional seed and hydromulch, you get the best of both worlds with that process. If irrigation is not well done, this method will survive much better, because the seed has some protection from the soil and the hydromulch will help conserve as much of the water as possible.

Doug
Austreim Landscaping Inc

[Lombardi]

Chad,
If that other guy can hydroseed for the same price that you will be conventional seeding for, either your price is too high or he is offering a heck of a good deal to the homeowner in order to get the business.
In my area I have never seen a hydroseed job that looks good a couple of months after it was done. It starts out looking great but it starts to deteriorate fast. This may be due to lack of soil prep, etc. as the other guys mentioned, but I would hope that with all of the hydroseed jobs I have seen someone knew what they were doing. In the Midwest we have very hot summers which puts a lot of stress on any new lawn or old lawn.

[greenngrow]

Chad,

Let me see if you have all the tools to do either one Hydro or Conventional.

3 acres
Hydoseeding- A whole bunch of water. I mean a whole bunch....
Power rake or something to get the ground perfectly level. This is a must for Hydro seeding.

Conventional - A tractor and a seeder of some sort. Straw blower I certainly would not want to shake out 3 acres worth of straw....


I like to conventional way of putting in a lawn. I demo a Fine lawn Hydroseeder this past year. I did my parents lawn. I did not have my power rake at this time. The lawn was very rough and not well prepared. YOU must do this before you sprayed down your seed.

If you have any questions please feel free to email me and I can discuss with in depth the pros and cons of both.

I have put in over 100 lawns in the past 2 years. The only one that looks like **** is my parents. And it is the only one that was Hydro seeded.....

[Lawn Tek]

Green grow , Hydro seeding lawns do not have to be perfectly level . Thats one of the great things about it . Mixed properly it will grow grass on a very steep slpoe . It has no weed seed , like straw . It does not leach nitrogen from the soil like straw . It does not blow away like straw , It does not get all in newly installed landscapes . Like the fellow fro Arkansas said, if ground is preped right , and proper watering , you get sod quality grass for a third of the price .

[baddboygeorge]

you would be better of power seeding it in !! unless the customer just has to have a total renovation. does the property have a nice grade to it ,if so an i was gonna totally renovate it i would kill out ,bring in some dirt for about an inch overlay then seed straw an roll. let me know whats up an if ya got that new mower ok see ya

[jkelton]

I'll throw another option in on this discussion - terraseeding. For those who have never heard of this, this is basically taking a high quality compost product and adding seed to the mixture as this as it is blown on the soil. The compost provides an optimum environment for seed germination while slowly changing the soil characteristics. Excellent results can be obtained, especially if you are concerned with any sloped areas.

From my own experience, using a mature compost is vitally important in obtaining the best results. I've finally found a compost that I feel comfortable using, albeit several dollars more expensive per yard than other products in my area.

I don't know if you have anyone close that can do this for you (mulch blower truck), but it may be something for you to consider.

[bad_chad48]

thanks for all of the replys so far and I hope that you all will read this post and then reply somemore.
For starters, I have to remeasure but for this posts sake, I am going to say the actual size of the prop is 2.5 acres. The house is built on top of a hill so none of the property is flat. but on the other hand, it is not that steep of a hill. Ither way of seeding, I will be using Lesco's Team Mates tall fescue at a rate of 8lbs per 1000. I will also be using Lesco starter furt. 18-24-12 also ither way.
Prep-work: I will go in and spray the existing lawn with round-up pro to kill out the grass. Then come in with the tractor and tiller to turn the grass under. Then I will be bringing in and spreading topsoil over the whole prop at a depth of 1 inch.
now for seeding.
If I do as I have before, I will us the areator/seeder to spread the seed at 8lbs pr 1000. Then I will apply the starter furt at a rate of 3lbs per 1000. Then come in with 200 bales of straw and blow it on. Then let the rains come and do the rest.
Hydro-seeding.
The guy that I have contacted, will hydroseed for $300 per tank which will cover 7000 sq ft. seeding at 8lbs per 1000. As stated above, seed and fert will be Lesco, and paper mulch.
As far as equipment goes, I will be renting a tractor with front loader,areator/seeder,grader box,3pt tiller, and a straw blower.
My prices: Qty Rate Total
Non-selective weed killer 109000 0 0
Turn current grass under 10hrs $60 $600
Top soil (300 yards spread) 38 $125 $4750
Seed and spread 900 $3.53 $3177
Fert and spread(50lb bags) 7 $39.49 $276.43
Straw and blown 200 $8.25 $1650
fert (30 days later) 7 $39.49 $276.43
total of $10729.86

Price hydro-mulching
Non-sel weed killer 109000 0 0
turn soil under 10hrs $60 $600
top soil 38 $125 $4750
Hydro seeding 16 $300 $4800
fert (30 days later) 7 $39.49 $276.43
total of $10426.43

That is what I have came up with. So now you have some info about what I am facing.

[bad_chad48]

One of the main reasons that I am considering this is because I am working by myself and 200 bales of straw is alot for myself to work with. Also, 200 bales of straw is hard to come by this time of year around here. 2nd reason. his quote takes care of seeding fert and mulch all at once for the same price. The reason that I started this thread though is because I do not know enough about hydro-mulching and this reflects back onto myself and my business.
BBG yes I did get a new mower but I ended up getting one from my dealer in Bowling Green. I ended up getting the 2003 mower for about the same price that you was quoted for the 2002. My dealer has taken care of me in the past so I just sucked it up and paid the little more for his mower. I just can't wait for it to warm up so I can use it. Its one bad beast.

[greenngrow]

Chad, Chad.

I don't want to sound Big Headed But man that to Damn High.
The invitation is still open for you send me a email so we can discuss further.......

1st question.. Has this gut agreed to these figures????

2nd. I would not try to do this big of a job this spring. TOOO Risky on getting a good stand. +++ you are going to be to late. The prime time to seed a lawn in KY is FEB 15 to March 15. You say you are going to spray down existing grass. Then why are you tilling it all up. Use a power seeder. Don't disturb the ground.

Lawn Tek. I know how and the reason for Hydro seeding. I seen good jobs. BUT you have to have the equipment to get the ground just right. I don't think Chad has these.....

I my case I didn't have the equipment at the time... I DO NOW

I still don't think the you can get the sod quality for third price.