Customer wont pay

[lasher66]

Hi,
I was just wondering if there was anything I could do about a customer who wont pay. Every time I talk to them they say they are going to mail me a check and they never do. They owe me $230 that is due since June 2002. They have been giving me the run around ever since. Can I take them to small claims court or something? They wrote me one check in July and it ended up bouncing. I dont get why they are doing this, they both work at Jeep and they seem like very good people. They never said anything to me about doing a bad job on the lawn or anything like that. Some help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Lasher

[MCGRAIL LAWN]

SEND THE ACCOUNT TO COLLECTION!!!!!!!!!!

LOOK UP COLLECTION AGENCYS IN THE PHONE BOOK AND CALL THEM

If you cant find one e-mail me @

McGrailLawn@Hotmail.com

I will give you a collection agency here in Chicago, IL

They will collect nation wide.

Collection rates vary from 25% - 50%

******
Just remember if they dont pay you dont pay
But their Cedit Report
will have you added to it for an uncolected account
and that balance MUST be paid (By law) before they can be issued any more credit.


Hope this helps

[cos]

Threaten their credit. Call their work! Threaten a lean on their assets. Collection agents are a waste of money!!! For a little extra money, take them to small claims.

[menchhofer]

Simply take them to small claims.

Most people upon receiving the summons will pay up.

[MCGRAIL LAWN]

As long as you put

"Customer pays any/all collection fees"
in you contract

Then go with a collection agency.

The collection agency
will collect your money'and then
will collect there money from the customer.


You get all you money back.

Also If you notify the collection agency within 120 days
they can place a lein on the title of the house.

What that does is prevent them from selling their house untill they pay you.

May take 15 years but you will get your money

[brucec32]

One mistake was letting it go this far. They sized you up and figured you weren't someone to worry about in terms of consequences. People in debt usually pay only those who will cause them "pain" if they dont' pay. The easy going debtors go unpaid. For example, I bet they paid their electric bill all these months! I haven't had more than a few past due accounts in recent years because I got more strict on terms and am glad I did.

1. Of course they're immediately cut off from other work, but that problem isnt' relevant here in winter.

2. I like to send a bill with "PAST DUE" stamped in red ink (cheap to buy a stamp like this) on the envelope and invoice to hardcore deadbeats. People get embarrassed that their mailman knows they are not paying bills, I guess. I've had more than a couple pay up after receiving this.

Have them served if they fail to respond, with a summons to appear in court. That will shake money out of a lot of people. Costs some money, but sometimes it's worth it.

3. For the future, be sure to give customers WRITTEN terms of payment when they sign on. It's been shown that people obey written rules more than spoken ones, as if they're handed down by god, not you, and also it makes it clear from the start what you expect.

4. Try to get money as soon as possible, to identify people who don't pay and reduce your risk as soon as possible. I send customers a bill for each month by the first of that month, based on scheduled work to be done. Any unscheduled work done will show up on the next month's invoice. I give them till the 15th to pay. That's two weeks. Enough time to cover people out of town and such. But I secretly really give them till the end of the month before I say anything. So they get 30 days. If I gave them 30 days up front, many would take 45. But If they can't pay in 30 days, they're either broke and can't really afford your service long term, or are just being disrespectful enough not to care if you get paid on time. I cull these types out each year so that eventually I have almost no payment problems. I include "prompt, reliable, on-time service deserves prompt, reliable, on-time payment" on my payment terms policy sheet.

I used to wait till the end of the month to send out a bill for the work I'd done, and had tons of late payers. They would string me out, and of course they now know they owe you a lot of money, so they have the upper hand. If you cut them off, they feel they got a free month's service and won't pay. If you keep mowing, the unpaid balance keeps growing.

Take the quick pain of losing a few accounts who aren't happy with your payment terms, rather than endure years of collection problems from being too generous on your terms.

The lien is a good idea too, once you receive a judgement, but you can't put a lien on for maintenance I believe, just for improvements like landscaping.

[Scraper]

No offense, but for $230...I'd write it off as a loss and a lesson learned. You'll spend more trying to get it.

[Lombardi]

I use small claims. If you win, they pay all fees in addition to your amount owed. Documentation is very important. Dates and times that you called or spoke to them at their house and what their response was. For small amounts as this you will not get a collection agency that will be as aggressive and prompt as you can be. Depending on the state there is only so much time that you have to file a lien, ie: 6 months from the last job completed.
If none of this works go to their house late at night and spray Roundup on the front yard spelling; DEADBEAT. Just kidding.

[Rhett]

Check with your local police department. Several of the states I have lived in have offices within the local departments that deal with nothing but bad checks. They will either pay or they will be arrested. I personally would have a hard time walking away from 230 that I earned.

Good Luck
Rhett

[polecat63]

I don't know what it's like in Ohio, but here in Va the judges don't like deadbeats. Send them a few past due notices and keep records and any responses along with the bounced check to small claims court. They will either pay before or after.

[nubbie]

Do you have a contract? If you do the following steps and suggestions might help:

1. Do not call their work or any other number they have not provided because that can be considered harassment to to the Fair Debt Collection Act.

2. In response to posting past due on a envelope, that is a great way to get their attention but can be construed as liabilist in a court because matters of personal debt are considered private info.

3. Get them on the fact that their check bounced, passing a bad check is an offense. Let them know that you have contacted the bank and plan to contact the sheriff to inform them about their financial practices. Also contact the bank on where the check was drawn because they can give you further alternatives and most will be happy to cooperate.

4. Small claims court is a great way to get their attention, usually the filing fees are minimal but the fact that you did not let them walk all over you and that they either have to show up and take time away from work, family, etc.. or not show up and receive a default judgement, which gives them 30 days to appeal or pay. If they do not pay you can impose a lean on said property, freeze personal bank assets and incur interest on said moneys.


Hope everything works out in the long run. Also let the next guy know what the people are like so he/she does not have to endure the same headaches.

Bill
Pinnacle Enterprises

[lawnworker]

You have let this go to long. I am not saying to give up, but in the future, stay on these types till you get your money. Most people will pay, if given enough pressure.

Bruce, I like your idea of the big red stamp on the front of the envelope, shame them into paying.

What really gets me mad is when people hire someone to do work they could do themselves and then not pay:angry:

[mowerman90]

lasher66,

You say you know where they work. Just park your truck in their driveway at.....say 6am on a work day. When they tell you to move so they can get to work would be a great time for you to ask them if they had a check for you. Do this a couple of days in a row and they'll get the idea. I had a friend of mine that owns a lawn service and he has a dump insert in his pickup. He filled the dump up with sand and dumped it at the end of the driveway blocking all access. He told'm to payup and he'd shovel up. Worked for him.

[polecat63]

Yeah, and maybe you could use a blackjack and some electrical cord!! I think he was trying to keep it legal.

[SR Landscaping]

This is a very interesting subject, I'm in the same boat. I was hired by a women, not knowing her and her husband were getting a Divorce.
The third cut HE asked me who hired me. Then he informed me his wife was passing bad checks all over town. I Quit cutting immediatly, and have been "hounding the B-tch". The Husband actually felt bad and showed me the Judges order that she was to pay the outstanding Landscape bill. So I guess she's even going against a Judges order.
Guess I'm rambling. This is ONLY 135.00, BUT I WANT MY MONEY!
I do her whole street, and the neighbors already hate her so the red won't work!!!:angry:

I always look at the bright side though. When I really have a BAD DAY, and am in a real bad mood!
I have a # to call and Vent my Frustrations! I even have her Cell phone # for those emergency must vent calls! :D

Thats gotta be worth something! I hate to say this, but if she pays I'll really miss that!:blob3:

Maybe I should share my goodfortune with you guys? Then if you have a BAD DAY you could call her also!

Just remember 1800-collect, save the ones you love some $!!!lol

[Casey]

Some of you might want to talk to your attorney to ask how far you can go with this. Harassing phone calls, especially to a cell phone, calling people at their work if they ask you not to, dumping anything on someone's property, can end up costing you way more than you will ever get in return. The bad part is you can get away with it many times and then you run into someone that won't take it and has the knowledge to turn the table on you. I had a friend that received a bad check from a customer, thought it would be cool to enlarge the check and post it on the guys house, didn't work out like he thought. The judge threw out the check and made my buddy pay damages. One of the local rental companies thought it would be cute to tape a house up with packing tape because the occupants wouldn't answer the door so they could repossess the furniture they had rented, even had a court order to repo, but they ended up losing in court because of the rental managers antics and had to let the customer keep the furniture no charge. What you need to remember some people that don't pay their bills are "professional" bill dodgers and are waiting for you to cross the line. Tread lightly

[Bob Minney]

I'd pursue the bad check, thats probably your best bet.
Take some time to learn your local bad check, small claims and debt collection laws.

[KDJ]

Buy a magazine subscription for them, something like gay porn.
Get their name right but their adress off by one number. Let next door hand deliver it. Would love to see and hear that one.

[paponte]

Take them to court. It's quite apparent you did the services if they wrote you a check already. Plus writing bad checks is illegal. Take them to court for their old balance, interest, and a bounced check fee. GET YOUR MONEY!! Even though it's 200 and change, if every customer thinks they can get away with it, it will add up fast!!

[lasher66]

Thanks for all the help. I am going to send them a final notice saying legal action will take place if they dont pay before the due date. Then after that I am going to charge $15.00 a month for late fees. I wasnt charging them late fees, so that probably is part of the prob. Hopefully they pay up.

P.S. I like the gay porn idea (ha,ha)

Lasher

[Jusmowin]

Pole cat said it best"keep it leagal" also keep everything on file just in case It reaches to the small claims level. You might want to try enforcing a late fee in this years billing, say $10 or $20 if they run past a certin date.
BTW, Pole cat 63 glad to see a few more Virginia Beach folks on this site. What part of the beach are you from?

[Holloway Lawns]

Small claims here would cost $62 to file and I almost filed on a customer last season for owing $80 it's the point of it. I would file on them. Do not call them at work there are laws against that.

Good luck

[chemtech]

Send to collection agency. I had to do that to 2 of my customers and got paid within 2 months. Also don't offer credit to them anymore. Make the either pay before you start working or DON"T WORK .

[kickin sum grass]

dont know if it will help but i think a lean on the house is $15. you have to have prof of duing the work and prof of trying to repeatedly collect on the balance due. if you still have the boinced check it is in your favor. You wont get your money until they try and sell. I would first go to the court house and find out all info on what needs to be done. Then write these people with a certified letter and explain that you are giving them xxx days to pay or a lean is being filed. also put in their the details of fileing a lean so that they know you have chercked it out and know what you are tyalking about.
I feel this is the best way for only a couple hundred bucks. by the time you waste in court and filing and all you could be out makin some money doing something else. you know your court date will be set in the middle of the busy season.
if it was more then court would be a better option.

[JimLewis]

I didn't read everyone's response. But did you say you have a bad check???? Don't you know that you can eventually get money for bad checks??? Unless they don't bank there anymore, all you have to do is go to their bank every day or two. EVENTUALLY, they have to have $230 in there!!! How else would they pay their mortgage payment. Everyone has $230 in their account at one time or another.

Just because a check has been returned to you with tons of stamps, cencelled endoresments on the back, etc. doesn't mean you can't still use the check! You can keep presenting that check over and over and over until funds are there to cover it. But best to do it in person, not via an ATM machine. Most banks even let you call and verify funds over the phone before you go in and try to cash the check.

So I'd try that. But if for some reason you don't still have the check then use the LEIN letter I have attached. It's worked wonders for me. 99% of the time I'll have a check in my hands in less than 5 days after I send the letter.

[McNeal Lawn]

Jusmowin and Plocat, I work out of the Va Beach area also, right now I am trying to collect $250.00 owed to me from Oct. 2002, repeated invoice mailings have not brought any action on thier part to pay up, they also have moved to a new address since October, and no phone listed, sent out a certified letter on Feb 14, which was a "demand for payment" letter I found in a search on this site, I haven't been notified as of yet on the delivery, 30 days and then I will go to small claims court, it may cost me more money then it is worth for such a small debt, but at least I will have the satifaction that they have paid one way or another.
I am sure that $250.00 is nothing to them, he is a LCDR, XO of a nuke sub.
Maybe we all should get together and share deadbeats names that we have ran across, to prevent us fron going through this BS to get paid.

[polecat63]

Hey Mcneal and Jusmowin, I'm over near S. Independence now, but I grew up on the oceanfront. Been doing this for about 8 years now and lovin' it. I haven't had to take anyone to small claims yet, but if you win you can make them pay court costs. I also haven't had to charge a late fee, but I've come close a few times. I try to offer a small discount for prompt payement and that seems to work for almost all of my clients. There will always be a few that pay late, but as long as they pay.......

[garyslawn]

I won at Small Claims court. It is then up to you to collect.What I didn't know was the court put a lean on the property. 10 years later he called beging to pay because he could not sell the house. ( His wife filed for divorce plus court gives you 10%.)

[Andrew S]

why should you not collect your money, you've worked hard for it

otherwise it would be easier not doing the job and playing golf instead!

I pursue my debtors that have run away as much as possible...this does not mean I act illegally or dump clippings on their driveway etc.

unfortunatley this is a part of running a business and bad payers will always be around

thanks

Andrew

[gslam88]

Keep in mind that if they knowingly wrote a bad check that that is a crime, just one force to help them along to pay, but I would not use a collection agency lossing upto 50% is a lot to loss. Try small claims court, in CT the most you can sue for is $3,500. You are well under that. See if you can not get a lawyer to write a letter for you and letting them know what next steps you are taking.

Hope it works out



Pete

[lasher66]

The bad check they wrote was for only $80 of the $230.00 they owed. I am going to pursue this until they pay. Not just because I could use the extra money for the winter, but I cant stand knowing that they are thinking they got away with a bunch of free mowings. I dont care if this drags out 4 years, I will get the money some way or another. Also, I was wondering what happens if they are in bad debt and file bankruptcy? Does this change the situation? I dont know if they are or not but I was just wondering.

Lasher

[Gravely_Man]

I would recommend that you take them to court. What is all of this talk about taking too much time? It is not yet spring (what else are you doing) and you did the work and need to be paid for it. Best of luck getting your money.


Gravely_Man

[Green430]

Boy have you hit a sore spot with me. I can't stand people that are late or won't pay their bills. To me it is no different than putting a gun to my back and robbing me. I had this problem with one person last year, and it fired me up.
1. Make sure you can prove they reicieved the invoice. I sent mine certified mail. She said she didn't have time to pick it up at the post office. But guess what I had proof in writing that the invoice was attempted to be delivered now I had something that would stand up in court.
2. Next I documented all attempts and conversations I had with the costumer. Just jot the date, time, and what happened in the conversation. I had some good stuff on these people.
3. Once I sent certified mail and they still did not respond I placed one more call to them, and sent one more letter. In both I stated what my intentions and deadlines were. Simply if I didn't not reicieve full payment but this date, I was going to place a lein on the property. If account was still not settled by such a date, I would take them to small claims court.
4. They didn't pay by the date so I placed a lein on the property. Once it was placed, and I sent a copy to them, They called me and paid me within one week.

I would only do this as a last resort. The conversations were not pleasent at all. People are a!!holes, and they will try to get by whenever they can. I later found out that they didn't pay the guy from last year either, but he just went away and didn't do anything about it. In turn I got burned the next year. They had probably being doing this for several years, but I bet they won't now. People think of us as PAPERBOYS and we just do this to make time pass in the summer. Screw them get every penny you can out of them.
:angry:

[bastalker]

I am a new user and very glad I found this site. Lasher I have to agree with scraper..chalk it up to lessons learned.It will cost more in time, and a few bucks to recoupe.
I have been in the same scenario, but i will cut 2 times max. if they dont pay, i dont cut anymore. If they then decide to pay i will ask for the money owed up front. If they decide to get some other company(I always keepm an eye on my accounts) and i happen to see them I will definately let them know what kind of people thaey are dealing with. I know most of the lawn care co. in my area. Just MTC..:D :waving: :drinkup:

[pjslawncare/landscap]

I dont know about Ohio, but in Indiana if they write a bad check, you can collect tripple face value of check after funds are not available in two weeks time. Not to mention that its a crime. Call police dept and ask what recourse you have in your state

[BB36]

Two things i found out here in North Carolina:
1. Small Claims Court costs $55 court fee/file plus $5.00 (per defendant ) for Sheriff to deliver summons. Only the sheriffs dept. can serve the summons to appear. If the sheriff can not serve the summons to the defendant (ie. refused to answer door ,not home etc. ) the judge will not considered the defendant served.
You only find this out when you appear in court.The judge will then suggest to you to file for another summons at a cost of $5.00 .and come back for another court date.You still won't know if the defendant ever got the summons till you go back to court.
The judge will not file a judgment against the defendant UNLESS he is served and loses the case or refuses to answer the appearance summons after being served .
A big waste of my time and my money!
2. I looked into collection and this looks like a easiest for me .Let them handle all the cr-p.They do charge in this case 33%.
They might not collect all the time but they don't get paid until they collect from the debtor.
I do contracts,monthly billing,late fees,late notices,certified mail/ return receipt for late paying customers ,phone calls,visits etc.etc.etc.etc. .I realize that if somebody doesn't want to pay they won't.I found that some LCC companies chalk it up as a cost of doing business and move on or go to small claims court or send it to collection.I prefer collection. Just my 2 cents.

[lasher66]

I wish I could do that bastalker. But I bill all my customers on a monthly basis. Then I give them 2 weeks after that to pay the bill. So that could be 6 mowing before I realize they arent going to pay. I use to bill on a weekly or biweekly basis when my business was much smaller, but it got to be to much paper work and time as I took on more customers. It eats me up knowing that they are going to get away with it. So there is no way I will just let them go. With me having the winter time off, i have much extra time to deal with this till lawn season starts.

Lasher

[lawnjockey]

I know you have had many replies on what to do but I have to tell this....I'm currently in the same boat. A woman, divorced, 4 kids, lives in a high class sub. and drives a Linclon Navigato, and 2 minivans. She owe's $160.00 since Sept. 2002. It has been in collection for 2 mo. and after Feb 28 I will go to court. ;) But the funny thing about it is what comes around goes around. I seen in the paper yesterday where crimes are published that her house was broken into... ha ha...They caused $1200.00 in damage to the house and stole $4000.00 worth of riding sadles..Now, I may not be the sharpest tool, but I say "Way ta go thieves". And I'll see her in court.....
Good Luck, as long as you have invoices your in good shape....

Mark

[Lombardi]

Mark,
I am a former investigator and any time a person that was having financial difficulties reported a crime as you describe or had a fire, the red flags went up. 90% of the time it was insurance fraud.
Actually, she might be able to pay you now since the stuff was probably insured.

[CoachLinz]

Just a quick comment on some people who have discouraged you from calling there place of work. Unless they specifically say do not call, you can call them at any number you have or can find between the hours of 8 am and 9 pm. I used to work in collections and am very familiar with the rules. Do not make threats of anything illegal, but simply inform them of the consequences (legal ones preferably) of not paying. Inform them of any late fees, interest, etc. Once you have established this initial contact, move on to other means of collection. If you have talked to them more than once already and have sent multiple bills, you're not goign to get it on your own most likely. If you have not already done so, inform them on your final notice that you will be filing with small claims court as of a certain date if payment is not received and then follow through. Just be sure you keep everything very business-like, no emotion or personal feelings in it. Even though you have a right to pissed and tell them so, leave that out.

[tiedeman]

that is so true Coach...many people don't leave out their feelings when they are trying to get payment from someone which can come back and bite them. Be professional about the collections matter and don't make any threats or rude comments.

[colonel landscaping]

hell id go for that 230 any way possible.... can get a couple 30 packs for that! sure makes the weeknd a hell of alot better, lol

[Expert Lawns]

I have a customer who is $200 outstanding. To some, it's not a lot of money, to me it is. It is the principle of the thing.....people like this cannot go through life using people, especially LCO's. I'm sure since I have cancelled service with him, he has hired someone new, and will rack up a bill with them. Just as he probably has done before. I would take him to court or send him to collections just to teach him a lesson. Money is not the issue here, it is morals and ethics. Someone needs to instill some into these people. People like this really get under my skin.

[nelbuts]

check your local and state law concerning bad checks

That amount is probably going to be a grand theft charge of some sort or udderence.

Then explain to them that they have 24 hours to give you cash or you will go to the sheriff's office and press charges.

THEN DO IT!

[KenH]

Make sure you add all these deadbeats to the Clientcheck.net database.