Bad Credit Hurting Biz Start-Up

[Daleman]

OK guys I am having a major problem getting financing to purchase some equipment to start up my lawncare business. I lost my job in september 2002 making 50,000 a year. All I could find after that was a job making 25,000 a year. So I have obviously have had some late payments on a regular basis. I also have a 1997 F150 that I am going to "voluntary repo" because I can't afford the 400 a month truck payment. Also I co-singed a car loan for my brother (he lost his job at same time as me because we worked together) and he is 2 payments behind on it. I really need this lawncare biz to work to help bring in some extra income. I just want to buy 2 walk behinds so don't need a ton of money. Do any of you know where I could get a loan with mega-bad credit? Thanks for any info that you guys can provide. Do you think with a good business plan and some contracts already any bank would give me a loan?

[walker-talker]

Tough situation. If you have to, start off small. I mean with postage stamp lawns and with a couple small mush mowers or find ya an 'ol craftsman rider. Do you have something you could pawn? Don't have to pawn, just get a loan against it.

Good luck
MATT

[Organix]

If you have a credit score of 630 or higher you should be able to get up to 10k mirco loan from http://www.sba.gov You can get a free credit score from http://www.experian.com Do the score, not the report. If you have not turned in your truck yet, you may want to check it now. 630 is really not that high, so you may want to check it out. Of course there is always places that do the high interest loans like benifical or norwest I think it is. You could also check the dealer itself to see if you could get approved there. But you should probably try to do it before you get the vehicle charged off.

[Gravely_Man]

Best of luck in getting this straightened out! I would just do web searches on loans. Sorry I don't have any better info for you.


Gravely_Man

[Ed Ryder]

If you can't buy it, rent it. Then later you can buy. Simple.

[Daleman]

I got denied by beneficial. They are one of those places you borrow 6000 and actually pay back 9000 (what a rip). They said that me being a coowner on my brothers car which is 2 payments behind us the reason they would not give me credit. Man I am screwed.

[Hawkeye5]

Is a home equity loan a possibility? How about a loan from your whole life insurance policy or even cashing it in for the surrender value?

[Daleman]

Good ideas Hawkye. Unfortuneatly I have lived in our current house for less than a year, and the surrender value of my life insurance is like a whopping 90 bucks. Thanks for trying though. Man I am screwed.

[hboyd_com]

While it is easy to feel sorry for yourself... resist that challenge. Everybody gets down... what's important is to get back up. You have your health, and in the end, not much else matters other than family.

Start small with a couple of used, small mowers and start building of income..... and get rid of the $400 month truck.

You'll pull out of it... what other choice do you have? Do it Man!

I know it is easy to say, but nobody can stop you but yourself.

Good luck.

[precisionlawn]

Do you have any start-up cash? Id so, how much, I started with only $5000, I suffered but, it is better than renting, the other bonus is, I have to make no payment on ay equiptment or truck. The down side is no warranties on my mower truck, trailer, However I bouth my line trimmer edger and blower new, they have a warranty. You are in nw Indiana, There is a shop, not sure of the name, but they are in South Holland, If you know where that is. They are right on 162 st. in South Holland. Check them out.

[precisionlawn]

Originally posted by Organix
If you have a credit score of 630 or higher you should be able to get up to 10k mirco loan from http://www.sba.gov You can get a free credit score from http://www.experian.com Do the score, not the report. If you have not turned in your truck yet, you may want to check it now. 630 is really not that high, so you may want to check it out. Of course there is always places that do the high interest loans like benifical or norwest I think it is. You could also check the dealer itself to see if you could get approved there. But you should probably try to do it before you get the vehicle charged off.

How do you get the free credit score, it seems like you have to buy it.

[Awilkinson]

Daleman-
What kind of jobs do you have lined up?
Have you gotten many cutomers yet?
YOur best bet would be to see how busy you are going to be before you buy anything.
The reason I am asking is that if you are only busy a couple of days a week with your business, I just might be close enough that we might be able to work out lease program until you start generating some income to purchase your own stuff. I would not have a problem with you using some of my equipment a day or so a week until you get going. Send me a private message and lets see what we can work out.:angel:

[xpnd]

Let's see; it is already documented that you can't make the payments on your existing loans. You can't make the payments on your brother's loan that you guaranteed. Hmm. You're now asking a lending insitution to trust you for more money when you can't make the payments on the existing loans and you can't figure out why everyone says, "No and please don't let the door hit you on your butt as you leave." Even the legalized loan sharks see you as an unacceptable risk. You need to get a grip on reality both financially and in terms of equipment you will need. 1 good 21"commercial mower, 1 disposable trimmer with interchangeable head units, and one hand held blower. Total cost <$2K. Figure on working 10-12 hour days by yourself. Figure on working into the wee hours of the night repairing equipment that by all rights should have hit the scrap pile two months ago or last year, and then getting up the next morning and start it all over again. Figure on not having a life the first year, working on Sundays, accepting prices below market level because of sheer desperation, and working for unresonable, cheap, overdemanding customers that no one else would touch by a mile. I worked this way for the first year, the second year, I upgraded to a stick edger and weed eater, the third year a back pack blower, the fourth year I got rid of all those nasty customers. Each year I was working 60 yards a week and each year I reinvested in my business and upgraded equipment inventory. If you're not prepared to accept the above as real life or have the self confidence to spend your own money, stop pursuing the loan idea and DO NOT spend the ~2K of your own money because it won't be a profitable venture.

Next year, take your financials into a lending insitution, preferably one that you did right by after being in default this year, show them how you invested yourself in the business, show your bottom line and a sound business plan for the coming year and you MAY get a small loan for equipment upgrades. Real life sucks, welcome to it.

[Sean Adams]

There is some good advice here. xpnd's advice may have seemed harsh, but it wasn't - it is true. One of my favorite sayings is....

"Don't sing it, bring it."

In other words, all the talk, hope, and prayers won't get you what you need. It's not going to be easy, but if done correctly and with a little luck and a lot of hard work, it will be very rewarding.

If you can live a year or two of frustration, with back pains and dirty hands, and rarely seeing your friends and family, you can make this work.

Have you looked into the possibility of a private investor - family member or friend - just to get you moving. If you haven't you may want to consider it. Be professional, show you are serious, present a business plan.

Good Luck.

[HOMER]

Why 2 walkbehinds to start with? What's wrong with 1 good one?

This might be a stretch but you might try going with Telmark. They are a leasing company and sometimes they might be a little more lenient than a bank. www.telmark.com I think is their web site. This may sound harsh too..........if the reason you needed 2 mowers is because you and your brother are going to be sharing this income..............go to work at McDonalds and scrap your present idea. There won't be enough to support 2 families my friend. You need to concentrate on you and yours right at the moment.

[Albemarle Lawn]

Very tough. You are actually BLESSED by bad credit, because if you had good credit you would have already went out and bought a bunch of stuff, then proceeded to REALLY get creamed.

I started broke, 9 years ago, and am making a decent living now.

But the first year was ROUGH. It wasn't until at least the third year that I had anything like $25K.

My advice, for what it's worth:

Turn the 97 Ford in, and somehow come up with about $2500 for a clean, used, full size truck pref 3/4 ton.

Buy one (only one) good mowing machine, about 48"-54" cut walk behind, with a velke. This is a very versatile combo. Now I own 3 ztr's and 4 w/b mowers, but I started with the 48" plus a cheap push mower.

Buy a good weedeater such as Redmax, my favorite. Do not skimp on this, you will torture yourself with curved-shaft junk.

Buy a good handheld or backpack blower.

Buy a nice single-axle trailer, or ramps so that you can put a 48" walk behind into the truck.

I made the initial mistake of a huge trailer and it was a hassle.

FLIERS FLIERS FLIERS, next year a yellow page ad.

STAY OUT OF DEBT.

I'll repeat that:

STAY OUT OF DEBT.

Just incase you missed it:

STAY!!! OUT!!! OF!!! DEBT!!!

Best of Luck!

KB

[Albemarle Lawn]

Just be glad you were making $50k at age 22 in this economy!!!

You got the one thing on your side most of us don't have:

Time and a young back!!!


Get away from the computer and get to work you'll do fine!!!

[rcav8er]

Daleman , don't dispare there are alot more of use out here than you think. I can really sympathize with your situation as I to lost my job in Sept of 2001. Being in the airline industry used be a pretty good living and as solid as anything else. Currently I'm driving 200 miles a day to the closest airline job I can find and trying to get a LC business off the gound in the 5 hours a day I have to spare. But hey there are alot of people out there these days that don't have that, so I guess we can be thankfull for what we have.
One piece of advice - Be honest with your creditors - Explain your situation and what your are doing, and what your projections are. Basically it's no different than presenting a business plan to a bank. Sell yourself and your work ethic. Make your creditors believe you are making every possible attempt to make good on your obligations. I have had pretty good results so far, it cost the creditor alot more to procede against you rather than working with you to bring the debt current.
As these guy's have allready said, start small. I'm running a basic 42" hydro. lawn tractor and have managed to pick up some good second hand blowers. Basically you can get started with what you have to care for your own lawn. It might not be new and the sexy but it works. Hang in there and good luck, your not alone!:blob1:

[Dependable Lawncare]

First of all, my condolences for the situation you find yourself in. This is an example of typical American lifestyle. Living without a safety net.

I learned early in my adult life that living on borrowed money is a tough road to hoe. One setback can ruin you. To that end I only get a loan if it is an absolute necessity.

I am starting a lawn care business this year myself. I sold my Iroc Camaro (which I bought and owned free and clear) and bought an '85 Dodge Ram truck for $500. It ain't pretty but it will probably get me through one season.

I did get a loan to buy a new 36" exmark mower (20% down) but I fully expect to be able to pay it off this season.

People in this country are living beyond their means and a lot of times it comes back to bite them. Hopefully this experience will give you a new perspective. I wish you the best of luck. The situation is not hopeless, you just need to accept the reality of the situation and do the best you can do.

[Rhett]

Get to work! If that means that you are cutting with a 22 inch Murray and Ryobi equipment, just do it ( About 300 dollars) Do a good job and add equipment as you can. Stick with the day time job. Course I am far from the most knowledgeable and more important, profitable one on this site. Good luck

[Casey]

Do you have any equity in the truck you are getting ready to turn back, if so can you hold on to it long enough to find someone that has an older truck they will trade and take over your loan. Not sure what the auto market is where you are located but sometimes around here, if the vehicle you have is in demand you can find a dealer to do something like that. And then beg or borrow a homeowner type of lawn mower, go to the pawn shop and look for a trimmer, might have to trade your VCR or DVD player, blowers are nice but they used to use brooms. You might even consider lining up lawns and then going to the local time rental type of place and renting a lawn mower for the day. It wouldn't be the most profitable way, but if you can line up 6 or 7 $30 lawns and pay the rental place $25 for the day you are ahead $155 3 or 4 days of that you can then buy a homeowner type of mower.

[Dependable Lawncare]

When I first started mowing lawns a few years back I found a guy that had about 3 acres who was moving out of state. We struck a deal where he would give me his Craftsman riding mower if I would cut his lawn for the remainder of the season.

Not a common situation but just goes to show that there are opportunities to help your situation if you can manage to find one.

By the way, the guy moved back at teh end of the summer and wanted to buy his mower back. So I got to use it most of the summer cutting all my accounts, then sold it back to him for $600. Not a bad deal!

[gusbuster]

It was suggested that a family member loan you the start up fee, but have you tried such places(this is just an example) catholic charities or thru you church.

I know a lot of Mexicans in my area are getting started thru a pilot program that one of the local churches in Mt. View Ca. These guys have no credit to speak of or proof of income. They are loaned up to $3000 for start up cost in what ever trade they wish to start in. All they have to do is besides pay back the loan within the year, they also have to get, call it testimonials by 10 different people that say you are a hard worker, will pay back the money and a good church going person.

Frankly, I think this program sucks and the churches Should not be increasing a big problem of non-insured owner\workers, but at least it keeps these people off the streets.

I would see if there are any similar programs in your area.

John

[HOMER]

Hey Rhett.............that's exactly what I started with!

A 22" high wheel Murryay and a Ryobi with an edger attachement........a craftsman hand held blower and a truck.

Wasn't fun
Wasn't pretty

But I can honestly say it got me where I am today....good, bad or indifferent.

Ya..........I'm in debt........but I ain't askin'(begging) nobody for a day off either!

[bobbygedd]

well looks like u r not gonna get a loan, therefor, u wont have any "luxeries" to work with. ill get bashed for this, but here goes: the truck is the most important, if u can scrape up $3000, u can get what u need. listen to this, how i started. used, old, crappy looking pick up=$700(it ran 2 seasons), used , self propelled snapper lawn mower, 21"($25 at a garage sale), home depot weed wacker, $65 , blower about the same price. add in paper, $60 for 4 weeks. insurance? yea right, what for? so they dont take your $25 lawn mower when they sue u? u have alot of hard work ahead of u, if u have almost no money to work with, u will be busting yur ***, but it can be done.

[Albemarle Lawn]

If I hurt someone, I want them to be taken care of.

Plus, a liability claim can be huge and it will follow you around.

It will crush your initiative: you won't want to ever make money because it will be taken away as it comes in.

Insurance is not that expensive. Mine is about $3600/year for 2 trucks (one with a plow) plus $2 million liability and full coverage against loss/theft/damage of 3 ZTR's and a few other things.

Backed into an $1800 lamp last week plowing. Late last year it was a $2200 claim when a tree damaged my new truck. Premium already paid for itself this year.

Ken

[bobbygedd]

dale , just thinking, im in jersey. i have a family member who lives in iniana, drives a truck so shes down this way every now and then. i have several walk behinds, one is a 36" snapper. i took the12 hp kawi off of it to put on a bobcat that needed it. the mower is in perfect condition, but needs an en engine. maybe for a few bucks u can get a used motor for it, then u will have a perfect 36' cutter. u want me to try to arrange getting it to u? i dont want anything for it, its just taking up room in my garage. i also have a used (but working) echo weed wacker i can send. these are things just taking up space in my garage. again i want nothing for the equipment, just happy to help u out. let me know

[bobbygedd]

dude, when i say screw the insurance, i mean, cmon, lets see, do we eat this week or make the insurance payment......ok, we make the insurance payment and eat dirt! sounds to me like this guys hurtin. thats y on a bare bones minimum, the last thing i would worry about is insurance

[Daleman]

Hey guys I really appreciate the input, and I am so glad you guys were so honest. My father today sold me his 1990 Silverado for a dollar to help me get started. I am taking my 1997 F150 which I owe mrgabucks on back to the dealer this week to try and make a deal. My wife and I are working on our tax return right now, and hopefully if we get enough I can afford a trailer and 1 walk behind. That will be enough to get me started. I have a craftsman weed wacker for my own lawn I'll use, and a broom. Thanks again for all the info, I love this site.

[Daleman]

bobbygedd wow that is awful kind of you. I could really use anything I can get my hands on right now. I could try to send you some kind of payment once the biz gets off the ground. Send me an email at kroldawg@aol.com and maybe we can figure something out.

[bobbygedd]

payment? here are my terms: I WANT NO MONEY!!!!!!! EVER

[Daleman]

ok ok Bobby I get the idea. Maybe if you ever need a favor down the line ..............

[cos]

Originally posted by HOMER
This may sound harsh too..........if the reason you needed 2 mowers is because you and your brother are going to be sharing this income..............go to work at McDonalds and scrap your present idea. There won't be enough to support 2 families my friend. You need to concentrate on you and yours right at the moment.

I would recommend the same. DO NOT voluntarily repo the truck. SELL IT! This will kill your credit. I will not turn this into bashing, but it is your own fault when you lost your job. You should always plan for the future. You are not ready to start a business right now. If you voluntarily turn it in and that repo goes on your report, forget about getting a good loan. Work 2 jobs, do whatever is needed and scrap this idea of a business. You will sink yourself further than you will ever imagine. Businesses, especially ours, don't see a real stable income on investment for atleast 3-5 years.


Just trying to help. Don't take it to heart.

[Daleman]

COS I have only had the truck for like 7 months. I owe 14,500 on it and there is no way in h%^& I am going to find someone to but if for what I owe on it. As for wroking 2 jobs instead of lawncare-- The only jobs in this area pay 8-10 dollars an hour. I know absolutely positively I can start a lawn care biz this spring and make way more than that (even cosidering lawn biz expenses.) I have takem small biz managemt courses in college, worked as a salesman for 3 1/2 years (job I lost), I know I can do this, was just trying to find a way to finance some equip.

[cos]

Good luck to ya!!!

Everyone here gave advice on how hard it is to start a business and the hardships. I would recommend a job with benefits. Try UPS, FEDEX, or a grocery store part time. This is something that has to be done for your health (just in case). I pack away $50 a week for days like this and will probably up that to $75. Are you doing anything now? Job under the table? Unenjoyment, I mean unemployment? LOL

My girlfriend is a collector for the oldest bank in America. She sees this all the time and can't lend advice on the phone to these people. It is a shame that people live beyond their means (not necessarily you), and when the time hits, bam, they are now down on their luck.

[xpnd]

Originally posted by Daleman

My wife and I are working on our tax return right now, and hopefully if we get enough I can afford a trailer and 1 walk behind. That will be enough to get me started. I have a craftsman weed wacker for my own lawn I'll use, and a broom. Thanks again for all the info, I love this site.

At this time you don't have need for a trailer. That's extra expense that should either be invested in quality commercial equipment or bank rolled. At the most all you need is a couple of 2X6 that aren't longer than the bed. Second, a broom will not cut it. You will be spending more time brooming concrete and porches than you will be cutting edging and line trimming a job combined. A hand held blower at a minimum is a must if you expect to turn jobs in a reasonable amount of time. Been there, done it.

If your wife is unemployed and w/out children, teach her how to weedeat and edge and run the blower. You will be amazed how operations worked concurrently shorten the time on a job.

[cos]

Don't buy a trailer!!! Use ramps and the back of your truck bed. I think you are thinking too big. You will have to justify this cost and a trailer would mean you are holding more than one walk behind. What happen to the start up last year when you were working this $50,000 a year job? Just wondering!!!


http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16082

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17568

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17506

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24792

[Daleman]

cos

I was working 60 hours a week to make that 50,000 a year ( 6 10hour days from like 5am till 3 p.m.) I actually had the money back then but not the drive because I was way to wore out to put my heart into the business and was making enough money that I didn't need the biz.

[kenp]

Hi Daleman,

I think that the advice to get a scheduled, maybe part-time job is excellent.

Anytime you decide to start a business, you still have to be certain that you are paying the nuts and bolts daily bills. Then, the new business isn't having to produce all of your income from day one.

UPS was mentioned. It can be great. You can work part-time early mornings (like 3 a.m.) or afternoons (like 5 p.m.), 3-5 hours each day. They also provide COMPLETE HEALTH INSURANCE, including dental. I worked there years ago while in college and with a family. It was a lifesaver.

Just think about it. It doesn't mean don't start a business, it just means to see to make sure you go into it with some balance. And, even a job that pays $8-$10/hour, guaranteed, gives you and more importantly your wife some feeling of security. That counts for something.

Ken

[kenp]

And Daleman,

Don't even think about allowing your truck to be repo'd.

You will have to work, for at least a while, maybe a lot more than the 60 hours/week you worked in sales. This will be a defining time in your life, and you can and will come through. But you will probably have to work harder than ever. You should find the "regular" job or jobs that will pay all of your bills, and build your lawn care business.

[bobbygedd]

yea what r the terms of this "voluntary repo?"as apposed to unvolintary?

[Stihl036pro]

Stay out of Debt, I started my Landscaping bisnuess 3 years ago. I'm coming up on my forth year, My only advice is to keep your over head low. Its taking me 3 three year to finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Trust me on this one. This is good advice. (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID) Thats how I like to say it. I was stupid at one time. Now I work on keeping it simple. Good luck to you!

[cos]

You have a pick truck now that can make you money. You had the funds to start back then with a good job and the desire with your past posts were VERY HIGH or seemed to be. Now you are saying the desire was really low due to working many hours at the other job. Now you lose that great paying job and you now want to still start a lawn biz with no funds.


My advice and this is only advice, is to go get a job! You will ruin yourself by trying to start a lawn business or any business for that matter especially with bad credit. There are options that allow you to hold a payment off for a month and you may have 2 a year. There is a fee for it.

Hope everything works out!!

[1stclasslawns]

I'll have to second the part about getting a job, at least for a while. A dock hand job at a trucking co. would be great for ya. If your wife dosen't have insurence on ya she better get some. Does she work? A stocker at the local Wal-marts.

I admire you for wanting to pull your self up by the bootstrap but somtimes you got to go lower then that.

And Ins is improtant you can go with out it for a while but remember stuff happens!

Good luck!!!!!


Jim

[Daleman]

Hey Guys, I think you misread one of my replies. I have a job right now working midnights at a grocery store unloading trucks, etc. I want to do lawn care IN ADDITION to my current job.


Bobby Gedd "voluntary repo" is where you take your vehicle back to the dealer you bought it from and say you can't afford it. Then you try and work out a deal (I guess I have never done this before or know anyone who has done it. I read about it on the net)

[cajuncutter]

Originally posted by HOMER
Hey Rhett.............that's exactly what I started with!

A 22" high wheel Murryay and a Ryobi with an edger attachement........a craftsman hand held blower and a truck.

Wasn't fun
Wasn't pretty

But I can honestly say it got me where I am today....good, bad or indifferent.

Ya..........I'm in debt........but I ain't askin'(begging) nobody for a day off either!
Homer I started with the 22 inch Murray as well but I had the homelite!!! Good thing about the Homelite was before the 2 year old mark I could just take it back to the Depot and they would give me a new one. I started 16 years ago when I got my DL at 15. Was making more than the average college grad!! I did not have a family that fed me with a silver spoon. I worked my way up. I am still considered small in this industry but every thing is paid for in full with the exception of my crew cab F350. Last full payment is this month with the remaining ballance due in April which is usually less. I currently have a 36 exmark belt drive, Hustler Short Cut 54 inch, 2 RedMax EB 7000's, Shin T230, Echo stick Edger, Lesco weedeater and Mauryama hedge trimmers, tillers and the list just goes on. Point is I had to work my way up the ladder. There were some very very long hard hot days down here in Lousiana with those 22 Murrays and it paid off. Daleman even though it sounds glorious and the guys here are making the bucks I am sure, for the most of us, there were a lot of sacrifices and for most probably no regrets. I wish you the best of luck..just roll with the puches

[Envy Lawn Service]

DO NOT LET THE TRUCK GO!!!

A repo is a repo is a repo and it stays on your credit forever and a day!

Don't be fooled by thinking you can lessen the effect by turning it in. All this does is save the bank from paying the repo thief his %. They will tell you many things. But they will send the truck to an auction, sell it for nothing and charge off the remaining balance on your credit. Then you will be really ruined.

A very good friend of mine turned his car in and that's what went down. He felt that was his best choice because he couldn't foresee being able to make payments for a long time.

Keep that truck at all costs if at all possible. Sell it, trade it, sell something else, do anything until you can unload it for something much cheaper.

Since your credit is already hurting, look into lowering your other unsecured debt by making agreements with your creditors. Or you can try your local United Way office. Here one of the offices has a credit counseling service that will do the legwork for you and lower your payments. Lots of times they can get interest knocked off ect and get you decent payment terms that will save your credit, wallet, mind and get you out of debt fast! This could help out enough for you to keep that truck.

As for equipment, do the best you can and seek jobs you can handle easily with it. Get a volume of jobs not volume jobs. You don't have to have expensive equipment to turn a profit. Make do with what you can afford.

Keep a truck, for get a trailer, its only more tires on the road and more overall expenses right now. If you take that free offer, it will fit in the back just fine. If you don't do that, get the most cut you can afford/haul in the truck. Then hunt down and take every good paying practical job you can until you are to the point your income is only limited because you simply can't take on anymore jobs without an equipment upgrade.

Then you must work hard and sacrifice. Eliminate any unnecessary expenses. Pinch every penny and be so tight you squeak when you walk. Then you'll start to build savings and grow your business with cash purchases.

NOTE: sacrifice may mean many hours of work, getting rid of the cable bill, cutting extras on the phone, cutting out eating out, conserving electricity, coupon shopping, quitting expensive habits/hobbies and living without a lot of stuff you'd rather not. But it will be worth it in the end. One day you might just become financially independent!!!

JUST MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE COMPUTER AND INTERNET SO YOU CAN COME ON HERE!


"Internet service $20....One hour on Lawnsite.....PRICELESS!!!"

[Haley Lawn Care]

Originally posted by Daleman
COS I have only had the truck for like 7 months. I owe 14,500 on it and there is no way in h%^& I am going to find someone to but if for what I owe on it. As for wroking 2 jobs instead of lawncare-- The only jobs in this area pay 8-10 dollars an hour. I know absolutely positively I can start a lawn care biz this spring and make way more than that (even cosidering lawn biz expenses.) I have takem small biz managemt courses in college, worked as a salesman for 3 1/2 years (job I lost), I know I can do this, was just trying to find a way to finance some equip.

With your attitude you are already a successful person. Take your refund and buy a trailer. Looks like you already have a walk behind lined up. You need to get some flyers made up and advertise. You can DO IT. Best of luck.

David

[stang358]

This is all great advice. I started my lawncare last year with a used 48" wb that I paid $300 for. Needed work, but the engine ran and had to replace all the belts and spindles. Put another $300 in it. I still have that mower and also have a 60" ZTR that I was able to pay cash for. My advice would be to get the FREE mower from bobby and put an engine on it. Practically new 14 HP engines around here can be had for under $500. Then get yourself a Weedeater brand hand held blower for $89 at Home Depot. I have one and for just blowing grass clippings off drives it works great. Use the trimmer you have and when you can, get an Echo strait shaft trimmer from HD. Once you learn how to use them, you can do a good job edging with them. Like others have said, use the truck and forget the trailer, for now. It is inconvenient without a trailer, but not a necessity.

DO NOT TURN IN THE TRUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get out there and start selling yourself. Do WHATEVER jobs you can get. Once you have more than you can handle, then you can start looking at ways to become more profitable. Hope this information helps and good luck.

[cos]

I was wrong in one of my posts after asking my girlfriend. This is not a voluntary repo. It is called a VTI (voluntary turn in). It is very wise not to do this. The truck will go to auction and you are STILL responsible for ALL fees and for the difference of the auction money that didn't cover the charge off. They, the bank, will still go after you for the balance. This VTI is different from a repo. It still is documented on your credit and is not good. If it was me, I would not turn it in and just sell it at any cost. Slow payments is better than VTI or even a repo. And FYI you do not turn it back into the dealer, you must make arrangemnts with your bank. DON'T DO IT!!!!

If you can, I would get that extension I talked about, it will give you time and options for when the time comes for a decision.

[bobbygedd]

yea really, what have u got to gain by handing over the truck? these people arent your friends, they gave u a loan, only to make money on the interest. damn, if i did that, they would put me in jail for loan sharking.

[baddboygeorge]

i was in a situation like this years ago its a hard one to get out of but you can do it . how i did it is i went to the bank with signed contracts an showed them the kinda money that i was gonna bring in at that time i had a partner on the mowing end an was going to mow alot of bigg commercial property together an at the last minute he backed out an i wasn't about to lose the contracts that i worked my rear off to get ..but i needed more equipment asap . another rider used for about 5 grand would get thru a few months until the money started rolling in so my bank gave me a 5000 dollar loan .to make a long story short 30 days later the loan was paid off an i was making it . so the following month i went back to the bank an got another 5 grand to buy some additional equipment an again 30 days later i was in the good .play your cards smart an get contracts signed an go see your banker an tell him the situation i promise he can help you an remember smaller local banks are the best !!

[Lawn Cops]

Have you called your local Consumer Credit Counseling office. They are a nation wide non profit orginaztion that helps people in your situation by working with the creditors to help get you back on your feet. THey are not like the ones you see advertised on TV. They are legit and do a great service. If you are interested just look in your yellow pages. Also many churches have a credit service available to its members.......Just an idea that could help you out.

[cajuncutter]

Lawn Cops the Consumer Credit Counseling is a good idea but should be the last resort. If he already has credit cards and he is paying the minimum for the time being he should not do this. Consumer Credit Counseling will make him forfit all credit debt and will not have access to any of his already open credit recources.

[brucec32]

Daleman's situation is a good example of how poor a job our educational system (and parents) do of teaching people how to handle money and credit. $50,000 is a nice income for age 22, but the key is not to live a $50,000 a year lifestyle and always live below one's means so as to not become overextended in just these situations. Before taking on a home you should have at least 6 months living expenses in savings, to avoid just these kind of problems. Just because someone will foolishly loan money doesn't mean it's a good idea to borrow it. The financial industry is now getting slammed over all the bad credit they gave out during the boom 90's. Job losses and income interruptions are always a risk, and one should plan for them.

My wife is losing her job (a financial company office closing down!) in 4 months, but we will be fine because we dont' spend everything we make. In fact, due to a very nice severance package, we will actually make MORE money this year if she finds another job paying much at all. But until then, we can still pay bills w/o any problems.

A good goal once your income returns to a high level is to try to live on half what you make if you can, until you've built up substantial savings, and with every year that passes life will become easier and less stressfull because you have money in the bank. Nobody ever looks back and gos "I wish I didnt' save so much money". One financial advisor calls this "attitude money" and it is worth a LOT. You will have a different outlook on the little things in life if money is not a big concern.

Of course all this is too late for Daleman, so my advice for now is:

1. Do whatever you can NOT to voluntarily repo your car. It will still count against your credit rating as a repo, and forget getting credit again for a long time, maybe as long as 7 years. Clark Howard, a radio consumer talk show host here, strongly advises against these "voluntary" repos. The lender also still will come after you for a "deficiency" , the money you still owe after they wholesale the car off. You will also find that they have little incentive to get top price for the car, so they will just sell it at an auction, meaning they get far less for your truck than it's really worth. Sell it yourself as soon as you have saved enough to pay off the difference of what you owe vs. what you can sell it for. This means you will have to go to the bank upon selling it and give them cash to release the title to the new owner. Boy that zero down financing is great, eh?

But better yet.....Keep your truck. I disagree with some of the advice to sell yours and buy a cheap clunker. You might be able to go with a used compact p/u, but I still think the '97 F150 is about as cheap as you can get in long term costs. $400/month is $100/week. You can make that delivering pizzas one or two nights a week if you have to, right now. You'll also need a reliable vehicle to work out of, not a junker. And lord help you in this business if you buy a cheap truck and it breaks down and you don't have money to get it fixed! You're history since your customers will all go elsewhere since you can't show up on time. As soon as you get enough ahead for your lawn business, you can start that on weekends to replace your pizza job.

2. Get a 21" self propelled rear bagging mower that converts to discharge or mulching($400 new will suffice, less if you buy a good used unit), a $200 echo srm 2100 straight shaft trimmer, and a hand held or used backpack blower and you can start mowing some lawns. They all fit in the back of a pickup (no trailer or ramps to buy) and for $800 you're in business. None of this equipment is the best value long term, but you're more concerned with digging out of trouble now and you can replace it in a year or two. Concentrate on small postage stamp lawns (which often have to be mowed with a 21" anyway) and you can be competitive. Spend $200-300 and put some ads in local papers. Some are as little as $50/week. If you really want replies, put "$10 first mow to see if you like my work" in the ad. Flyers and stuff are time consuming (this is your 2nd job, remember) and probably cost more in the long run for various reasons I won't go into. But if you are not willing to work hard and do the job right every time and not cut corners, you will probably fail at this biz. As you get your head above water, you can look into upgrading equipment.

3. Put your brother who let you down to work mowing lawns if you have to, but he needs to get the cosigned loan deal straightened out. And NEVER EVER COSIGN FOR SOMEONE AGAIN! Give or loan them the money before cosigning. You have no power otherwise. And people w/ little or no savings have no business cosigning for others anyway. The bank officer who approved this is probably in a little trouble him/herself if someone finds out.

4. If you are due any kind of refund (likely if your income dropped) be sure to file right away electronically so you can get your hands on it sooner. You should probably NOT go the quickee refund loan route, you'll probably get ripped off for much of your money.

5. Obviously, do NOT quit your day job! You'll need time to develop into a business that can replace this income. It also may be providing expensive benefits like health insurance that you'd have to pay for otherwise. And do NOT get tempted to go w/o it. One trip to the hospital or a medical test will have you right back in the red. Uninsured medical costs are said to be one of the top reasons for bankruptcies.

6. If you have a spouse, is she working? If you have kids, and she's staying at home, she still needs to work some. There are lots of part time opportunities to make a little cash. Some women with kids here do pet-sitting part time to make some cash. They can drag the kids along while they go feed and walk peoples' pets, unlike an office or retail job. Services here are always looking for reliable people to do this. Pays maybe $10/hour.

7. You don't need a trailer. That's money you don't have for something you don't need. You can drive a midsize wb right into the bed and still have space for your other equipment. A couple of sturdy boards, some ramparts tips and safety chains, and you're good to go. But if money is really as tight as it seems, you CAN make extra money "push mowing" lawns with a 21". Just advertise in areas with small lawns, that's all.

Slowly but surely you can climb out of this, but the key I think is to avoid the current "have it now, pay for it later" culture that has popped up in recent years. I'm not saying you were living a caviar and limo lifestyle, but even 20 years ago this kind of borrowing was unheard of. People simply did without until they could pay for it. 50 years ago mortgages were for 10 years, if that. You saved first, then you enjoyed things. Be patient, every dollar of spending you forgoe now means you will have 2 or 3 dollars to spend in 10 years.
I started in this business myself after a job loss during the last recession in '91, but I had saved and had enough in the bank to pay cash for my equipment, so it went really smoothly. I just got into it because I was tired of applying for corporate jobs I didnt' really want and after doing lawncare part time while I job hunted, working for a friend, I decided to go full time.

[Daleman]

brucec32

Bruce that is probably about the best advice anyone has ever given me. Thank you so much for the info, I plan on doing exactly what you said. I am applying now at local places for a part time job at least until mowing season starts. I also put an add in the paper to sell my truck or let someone take over the payments. I already got the form from Ford Credit to do this. Thanks Again, I really appreciate it.

[hboyd_com]

Good Post Brucec32. I agree with much of what you said, however I think a $400/month truck is unnecessary. Nice to have... yes. Need to have... No. A $200 a month truck payment on a good, reliable, slightly used truck is an easy way to cut your vehicle expenses in half. Of course, this assumes that you can get out of your $400 payment without it costing you additional $'s.

You don't have to be the biggest outfit with the best equipment to be succesful. Good Luck.

[brucec32]

Originally posted by Albemarle Lawn
If I hurt someone, I want them to be taken care of.

Plus, a liability claim can be huge and it will follow you around.

It will crush your initiative: you won't want to ever make money because it will be taken away as it comes in.

Insurance is not that expensive. Mine is about $3600/year for 2 trucks (one with a plow) plus $2 million liability and full coverage against loss/theft/damage of 3 ZTR's and a few other things.

Backed into an $1800 lamp last week plowing. Late last year it was a $2200 claim when a tree damaged my new truck. Premium already paid for itself this year.

Ken

At least till you get your next year's premium notice and your rates have doubled! Two claims in two years, you're lucky if they don't cancel you completely.