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kootoomootoo
03-11-2003, 09:45 PM
Hi Guys,
Have a job that requires seeding 100,000 sq ft.

Approx 65000 is bare and newly graded and 35000 is
the original Bluegrass, Rye & Tall Fescue Lawn.

I plan on cutting existing lawn very very short and then spraying the exisiting lawn areas with roundup because
customer wants bluegrass / rye and no fescue. I plan on using a harkey rake to go over it. (Would rockhound be better ?)

Would you guys do it this way or please suggest alternatives.

I guess my only concern is excess grass from the harley rake going over the existing dead lawn areas.

Around here Hydroseeding is $0.08 a sq ft. There is a dam on the property for water. Bale chopper/straw is whatever

How would you guys approach this job & what would you guys charge for an area like this.

paul
03-11-2003, 10:26 PM
It's hard to say I don't know where you are located, but here it would go for .85 a sq yd complete.

As for the harley rake go for it...........best tool you can use on a tractor should be able to grade it out in one day. Only see two maybe three days work.

plowboy81
03-11-2003, 10:47 PM
I worked for a landscaping company for 2 years. We seeded a whole lot. There is a tool called a TR3 for a tractor. If you can rent one of these, then it will do the whole job. Hands down the best dressing tool in the industry. It has teeth on the front, a floating scrape blade in the middle to level dirt, and long fingers in the back to feather out the dirt. One step operation. As for the price, we charged 1100.00 and acre to dress, seed, fert, and straw. We also hydrotacked for an additional 300 per acre. If you can, seed and fert first, blow straw second, and then spray tack on the straw to hold down and to keep moisture in. This works better than just hydroseeding. Good luck, maybe this helps. Sight unseen, I would price 100,000 sqft at around 2000 to 2500 turnkey depending on your area and overhead. Of course bluegrass runs a little more expensive than K31 fescue. You could try mixing your own blend, that might do better for you because the different seed in the mix would extend the mowing season, and thus there is more mowing time and money.

paul
03-11-2003, 10:57 PM
Plowboy81

Two (2)+ acres for $2500
100,000 sq ft = 2.3 acres
250 lbs of seed per acre at 1.35 per lb = $776
12 bags of fert at $10= $120
labor 3 men at $50 per hr for 3 days= $3600
Tractor or skid steer??????
I'm allready over the $2500.........

You want to come here and do seeding for me????????

plowboy81
03-11-2003, 11:18 PM
Here's my deal:

250lbs seed=450
10 bags fert=(4.25x10) 42.50
150 bales straw=(150x2.00) 300
4 men@ 12 per hour for 1 to 1.5 days(10 hours)= 480
tractor fuel and wear and tear= 150

Total cost= $1422.50
Estimated=$2500.00
Money in pocket=$1077.50

Not to bad for 2 days work. You will never get the job at your labor and expense cost. You have to look at what your cost is. You can either make to much on one job per month or either alot on 15 jobs per month. Who actually gets 50 per hour per man when only paying them 8.50 to work. Your costs are way to high. This is the real world. I do it so I know. Maybe go to 2800 or even 3000. You will have to figure in your own overhead and priorities. You don't want to screw these people to bad if you intend on mowing the grass after you grow it. This job shouldn't take no longer than 2 days unless you are using rakes instead of a tractor.

paul
03-11-2003, 11:20 PM
Labor rates here are much higher we are paying laborers $35 per hr here.

I don't mow grass.....

here off the web page for march 2003
LABORER ALL 28.000 28.750 1.5 1.5 2.0 3.580 2.970 0.000 0.170

Lanelle
03-11-2003, 11:39 PM
This thread illustrates many things.
1. Union vs. non-union wages
2. Market differences for various areas
3. Difference in costs which may denote a difference in products used.
4. Figuring overhead costs into the final price as well as profit. I know that paul pays insurance, licensing, certifications, bonding, taxes and the list goes on......
5. Knowing costs is only part of the price---figuring the most efficient way of doing the job also changes the final number.

By the way, have you seen a picture of the tractor paul uses for large seeding jobs?

paul
03-11-2003, 11:41 PM
My little tractor........

plowboy81
03-12-2003, 02:56 AM
Well that explains it. Things up north are quite a bit more expensive than down here. Surely you don't use your "little trator" to dress up land for seeding.

DaddyRabbit
03-12-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by plowboy81
Here's my deal:

250lbs seed=450
10 bags fert=(4.25x10) 42.50
150 bales straw=(150x2.00) 300
4 men@ 12 per hour for 1 to 1.5 days(10 hours)= 480
tractor fuel and wear and tear= 150

Total cost= $1422.50
Estimated=$2500.00
Money in pocket=$1077.50

Not to bad for 2 days work. You will never get the job at your labor and expense cost. You have to look at what your cost is. You can either make to much on one job per month or either alot on 15 jobs per month. Who actually gets 50 per hour per man when only paying them 8.50 to work. Your costs are way to high. This is the real world. I do it so I know. Maybe go to 2800 or even 3000. You will have to figure in your own overhead and priorities. You don't want to screw these people to bad if you intend on mowing the grass after you grow it. This job shouldn't take no longer than 2 days unless you are using rakes instead of a tractor.

Not bad for 2 days, well, maybe it is, it depends on what profit looks like to you I guess. For 2 acres I wouldn't't touch it for less than $3400 to $3500..period. You neglected to install trailer and truck wear, fuel for the truck, insurance for the aforementioned as well as the lovely taxes that we all must pay. If you're getting 18.24.12 fertilizer for that price then hook me up as well. It costs me $8 for a 50lb bag.

paul
03-12-2003, 10:14 AM
We sure do :) we have a 15' cultpacker for it along with a few other implments

LKNServices
03-12-2003, 01:22 PM
I get about $1,000 for a normal .5 acre lot with a house, and I can do 2/per day with a good helper. 1/day by myself even if I had to spread the straw by hand. Yes 500/day is good for one person doing a side job, but there are a lot more expenses when running a business. Feul,ins,workman's comp,etc. As the case for us fellows in NC this winter, weather can be a major problem too. And what if you can't work but one day/week??? So...close to 4 grand for that particular job, depending on who it is for and how big of a rush job it is.

Mike Bradbury
03-12-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by paul
Labor rates here are much higher we are paying laborers $35 per hr here.

I don't mow grass.........I'm not a green feet.....

here off the web page for march 2003
LABORER ALL 28.000 28.750 1.5 1.5 2.0 3.580 2.970 0.000 0.170

What do the numbers mean. You're not really paying $35 hour? (do you mean counting benefits costs?)

paul
03-12-2003, 05:48 PM
$28 per hour plus benefits foremen $28.75
Anything over 8 hrs is time and one half
Anything Saturdays time and one half
Sunday 2x

$3.58 per hr health
$2.97 per hr medical
$0.17 per hr vacation

$34.72 per hr.......

SCL
03-12-2003, 06:06 PM
So you're seeding at 2.5 lbs per K, strawing at 250 lbs. pr acre, and buying starter for 4,25 a bag. Tractor labor $150, what at $15 an hour? This is just crazy. Paul may have to charge union rates, so will I some day, union, but the rest of us ain't nuts! $2k per acre, maybe $4k for this one if I wanted it bad enough. And if I hydro'ed .08 on top of prep.

kootoomootoo
03-12-2003, 06:53 PM
I was planning on quoting the job between $5000-$8000.

I also have to add in the cost of the bobcat / harley rake
on top of materials.

Bear in mind I will have to prepare 100000 sq ft to seed.

I did like the idea of spraying the tackifier over the straw.

philk17088
03-12-2003, 09:06 PM
Paul,
Is that thing as fun as it looks to play with?:laugh:

Mike Bradbury
03-12-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by paul
$28 per hour plus benefits foremen $28.75
Anything over 8 hrs is time and one half
Anything Saturdays time and one half
Sunday 2x

$3.58 per hr health
$2.97 per hr medical
$0.17 per hr vacation

$34.72 per hr.......

To quote ole Harry: "Holeey Cow!"
Mind boggling to me. Do you just work for millionaires??:dizzy:

paul
03-12-2003, 09:47 PM
I don't run it any more...... operators run it.

No all the work we do are goverment jobs.

plowboy81
03-12-2003, 10:46 PM
Let me explain myself. If you are paying 28.00 per hour, send me and application. We use 10-10-10 because the soil here is totally different than up North (red clay here). We can blow 150 bales of straw in less than 30 minutes, guaranteed! Of course I didn't figure in a bobcat because you said it had existing mowable grass which I took as being somewhat clean and level. Of course if there any rocks, trash, or backfilling, then you'll need a bobcat. I am just telling what my boss charged and by no means is he hurting for money. I guess here in North Carolina it is alot cheaper for labor and materials because of the cost of living and other stuff. We had a 1000 gal TurfMaker and use three bales mulch, 2 bags Contact, and 5lbs. Slicky Sticky. Like I said, to tack the straw would be an additional 300 per acre (approx. $725) so add that to the total and you get around 3000 to 3300 total turnkey operation.

MWS LAWN
03-12-2003, 10:58 PM
Plowboy, I believe your boss is just telling you that so you will not feel bad on what your boss is really making off of you. 1st. rule of thumb of being the boss- NEVER, NEVER, NEVER tell anyone but your cpa what you are really making. There's a reason why your boss is still in business and has plenty of money - and he did not get that way by charging the prices you are posting. I'm in Va. and even the prices you are posting for the materials are off! And if these prices are right let me know where he is getting them from (materials), it would be worth my time to drive to NC to buy them!

plowboy81
03-12-2003, 11:14 PM
I know my prices are right for sure. I no longer work for him, I got a real job. We bought alot of our products from Nivek Inc. in Greensboro. We did alot of erosion control. They have seed, fert., silt fence materials, irigation, matting(netting), spreaders, pesticides, and pretty much anything you would need for landscaping. They may have a website. I know what we could do in a days time and what he priced his jobs at. We made most of his money doing silt fence. He gets $2.35 per foot. We could put up 2500 feet in 8 hours considering ok working conditions. That includes post, hog wire, fabric, dirting, and then stoning. I know that we kicked *** and took names later on everything we did. The name of the company is P&J Landscaping in Summerfield,NC.

hosejockey2002
03-13-2003, 01:50 PM
Since all the work Paul does is government, he probably has to pay "prevailing wage". When I used to drive truck for a construction company, they had to pay me prevailing wage if they were working on a government job, which was about $30/hr. They had to pay me "union wages" even though I was not in the union. The prevailing wage varies by county here in the state of Washington. Around here the PW for a landscape laborer is around $25-$26/hr. East of the mountains on the other side of the state it is much less. I asked my former boss how he stayed in business paying these kinds of wages (he is a small operation) and he said the PW actually kind of "levels the playing field" among contractors bidding for government jobs because they all have to pay their workers the same wage. Down in your neck of the woods prevailing wage does not exist because your state is a "right to work" state.

WatervlietAaron
03-13-2003, 04:10 PM
I am laughing at you plow boy. $150 for equipment and overhead.
Do you know what any of this equipment cost I doubt it and you are charging $12 an hour would have to pay your peolpe 2.50 an hr. at that rate.

Here is the truth. .10 - .12 sq ft that is what you charge
anything less and yes you will get the job but you will be leaving money on the table and pricing jobs for less you will not be in bussiness very long.

plowboy81
03-13-2003, 10:09 PM
The laugh is on you because you obviously can't read. I stated that 12.00 per hour is what he actually had invested, not what he was charging per head. When you don't offer insurance and benefits then your manpower isn't quite as expensive. Sure he prices getting more than that per head, but that is not his actual out of pocket. And another thing, I don't own the business, I just worked for him. What he charges is his own can of worms. He loses more money out of his pockets in the washer each year than you'll see in a lifetime. So if you didn't get the whole gist of me just giving what I know to someone who asked, then open up your own website for nonemployed computer geeks who have nothing to do except criticize the hard working successfull for actually being successfull.

Gtotoy
03-14-2003, 12:45 AM
WOW!

baddboygeorge
03-22-2003, 11:03 AM
sorry laborers dont get that pay , you've got the wrong business buddy try microsoft they mite be able to help with those wages!!

SWR11
03-22-2003, 12:50 PM
Hydroseed? Were the money in that? Could you breakdown your expense please plowboy? Thanks

This thread has definitely ruffled some feathers!!!!!!!!!!!

Now we all now that everyone thinks different, Spend more time with the customer and convince him that the lowest price ain't always the best!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just my 2 Canadian cents

:D :cool: :D

navyman
03-22-2003, 12:55 PM
here in Michigan a job this size to hydrseed only would be about $3200 and to prep about $1000 and that would include a guarantee if they had sprinkler system.

plowboy81
03-24-2003, 12:22 AM
There is a difference in hydrotacking and hydroseeding. Tacking is less expensive as far as running the machine. We seeded and fertilized by hand, then we tacked the straw to hold it down and to hold in moisture. He charged 300 per tank to tack. The tank holds 1000 gallons. It is a TurfMaker 1000. Another thing to remember, business here is totally different than up North. We also guaranteed a stand of grass. Alot of our seeding was on cleared lots, diversion burms, and silt ponds. We had it mounted on an 18' trailer and pulled it with a tractor. Finally he bought a truck and we mounted it on the flatbed.

zedosix
03-24-2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by paul
$28 per hour plus benefits foremen $28.75
Anything over 8 hrs is time and one half
Anything Saturdays time and one half
Sunday 2x

$3.58 per hr health
$2.97 per hr medical
$0.17 per hr vacation

$34.72 per hr.......

Not sure how it works in the states but up here we do not pay overtime for seasonal workers. On average my guys will do 60 to 65 hour weeks with no overtime.

At the rate you guys pay I would never of gone in to business for myself.

Is this the going rate for labourers in your state?