Help....

[harpoonalt]

I have an account that has had Lawnmaster spray for two years to get their lawn back from weeds. This is my first year doing her lawn and it's in fairly good shape. She wants to not spray any more chemicals than she has too. My answer for her was that we would mow properly, higher and more often as needed, and fertilze (after a soil test) to keep a healthy lawn, and see how it goes with the weeds. Am I on the right track? I am almost ready for the pesticide test, and only want to fertilize as I believe in using the least amount of chemicals. Can you really keep ahead of most weeds by just keeping the lawn healthy?

[Ric]

harpoonalt

I am in warm season turf therefore I might tell you wrong. A health turf is the best weed prevention there is. Yes I think you can keep weeds out. You can watch the lawn closely because you cut it regular. Spot treat or have it spot treated if you have a out break of weeds.

However what about insects in your area?? Jap beetles etc??

[timturf]

Follow ric advice, and dodn't omit SOIL TEST!!!!!!!!!!1

[harpoonalt]

Thanks for the info. This woman is very concerned about using chemicals and we're going to try to limit their use. She isn't concerned about bugs or at least didn't mention it. Her previous service mowed the lawn too short in my opinion so i'm hoping that mowing it longer and more often will help. soil test as soon as the snow is gone. Thanks again.

[timturf]

What grasses are grown their?? TT Tall fescue, Blue, p rye, and fine fescue

How high do you normally cut?

[harpoonalt]

This is my first official year in business, but I've been reading non-stop here, and other turf sites for ages. I want to ease into this, with the goal of creating healthy turf with limited use of chemicals. The referrals I get all mention the reason they called me was that they liked my philosophy of getting a soil test, and just not blindly spraying like the big spray guys do.
That said, we have mostly fescue, rye, and bluegrass that I can tell. My experience from practicing on my lawn is that mowing at about 3" and mowing more often (trying to adhere to the 1/3 rule) seems to help the lawn especially during the summer heat.
The previous spray guy pretty much did the hard work as most of the lawn is in fairly good shape. I just want to be confident that I'm on the right track with my plans. I've studied the core tutorial and know it pretty well, but my next opportunity to take the license test will be early May. Before that, I hope to do a soil test and calculate what the lawn needs and aply only what is indicated by the test after I'm licensed.
Another part of my plan is to take the estimated number of mows for the season, and times it by my single rate and bill in even monthly amounts for the season, with the understanding that I would be mowing more often during the peak growing season and less during the peak of the summer always trying to adhere to the 1/3 rule as close as possible. I'm taking a chance if I guess wrong, but I'll feel better knowing that if the grass takes off and needs mowing every 5 days early on, that I can do it without the customer feeling like I'm padding the bill.
So how's it sound so far? Any suggestions? Am I on the right track?

[Ric]

harpoonalt

Sounds like you have done your home work. It takes about three years to get sharp and Three life times to be an expert. You are getting a great start.

People who know what they are doing and do good work don't have to look for customers. The customers Look for them.

[fblandscape]

If your customer doesn't want to apply chemicals, you are going to be spending some time monitoring. This is something you should charge for. Also, a few words of advice... if you can, use natural organic fertilizers. They have MANY more advantages than salts and synthetics do.

[timturf]

I agree with fblandscape on natural organic fert.
I would mow around 2.5" and return the clipping.

Soil tests!!!!!!

Build the soil, and turf will reward you.

[Turfdude]

Fertilize as suggested above - you may want to stay at 3" - maybe 3.5 in summer if very hot

[timturf]

Do your research a mowing heights for those turfgrasses!

[fblandscape]

Check out a book on insects by the Entomology Society of America. Handbook of Turfgrass Insect Pests. It will give you the history of any turfgrass pest you want, pictures, IPM approach suggestions, monitoring tips, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Good book in short.

[Organic-man]

Originally posted by fblandscape
If your customer doesn't want to apply chemicals, you are going to be spending some time monitoring. This is something you should charge for. Also, a few words of advice... if you can, use natural organic fertilizers. They have MANY more advantages than salts and synthetics do.

www.organicapproach.com Call them and ask for information on their product lineup. They are poultry manure based with humates and trace minerals. Check out their 75% organic Bridge line as well. Call 1-888-BIO-LIFE. It will be very well worth the time spent.

[harpoonalt]

Thanks guys. I called my Ag Dept. today and in Vt. you don't need a license to fertilize or lime. I'm still going for the license as I'm sure i will need it, but at least now I can get her lawn started with some fertilizer. (After the soil test).
I will look into the organics. Sounds interesting. I have bought and read some Turf science books, but I work with "Book Smart" engineers all day and I know there is nothing like real world experience. I appreciate all of that you can throw at me.

[philk17088]

Originally posted by fblandscape
If your customer doesn't want to apply chemicals, you are going to be spending some time monitoring. This is something you should charge for.

Absolutely, your knowledge and commitment to monitoring is worth more than the pesticides and you should be paid the same as if you were applying.

payup

[Organic-man]

If you want serious practical info on organic science and fertilizer, look at the sites below.
www.teravita.com
www.harmonyproducts.com
www.organicapproach.com
www.soilfoodweb.com
www.wormgold.com

For more info on a practical organic based business utilizing IPM to its fullest extent, private-message me!

Good luck!

[Ric]

Organic Child

I can see how organic Fertilizer works for you since you have a 5 ton truck and piggy back forklift to handle such.

Do a search here on Lawn site under organic fertilizer and find out some of the draw backs of organic fertilizers on the environment. You might want to trade in your left wing anti war banner for a yellow ribbon, American flag and a real education in Agronomy.

Sorry members Organic Child had a go round on an other forum with myself, and Groundskper. BTW Organic Child did you apply for a pesticide License yet. Organics have there place, but not a total organic program. Corn Gulden is not a herbicide I would recommend. Neem Oil will not kill grubs Etc.

[Organic-man]

Organics have their place. I have an organic program for my own business. I can sub out the pesticide to another company.

I have done searches on this forum and see that organics/ pesticides seems to be like the age old Chevy/Ford arguments,
or Dixie Chopper / Exmark. I stick with organics, and will continue to because I know it IS better for the environment. There are many experienced men on this forum who believe it is better as well, but I do not need them to prove it for me. You can stick to your ways, but I will stick to mine. I was reading a thread on here last night . One of the guys maintains many of the coastal mansions of New England, and says that l the owners know organic is better because they see it for themselves. Organic is considered politically correct out there. I could care less about politically correct. I am sticking with organics. Call me organic-child if you want to and you are naming all the experienced LCO's who think just like me.

[GroundKprs]

Hello again, Mr. David Orgasmic Organic. Please show us the results of all your knowledge of and experience with organic turf care. Be sure it is just half of a turf area, with the other half treated with normal lawn fertilizers, so you can show just how the organic treatment blows away any other. Of course you will have pictures of lawn before your treatments, and pictures showing comparative areas every year for the 5-10 year trial. Would be good to also show one you have done for 20+ years, to prove how effective it is over long term.

In time you may learn that information on a web site is just information, it is not necessarily truth. And information on a website promoting that web site's products is considered advertising, which is often distorted information. I can find you websites that reveal that the earth is flat, Elvis lives, Hitler never hurt a Jew, and many other wild ideas. And there are websites promoting seemingly wild ideas that are real.

If you think you have found the magic way to treat turf, you need to go out and do it, not just bellow about doing it, please. Come back and try to gain converts when you have something to show.

[philk17088]

Hey if people are willing to pay me the exra money I need, I'll do an organic program but I would inform them the route that they want to take is a long slow process and expectations have to be lowered.

[Organic-man]

That is how I sell my services. I charge more, the results take time, and weeds might still grow. I also have friends who do what I am doing with this organic program, and they swear by it. They never will go back to chemicals again. Anyone willing to try organic methods had better be well educated in organic agronomy though, or you won't understand why it is better. I do, and it is enough. Just wait until I post pictures of half dead trees that spring to back to life with just a couple of my treatments, or green grass growing better during a drought than the neighbors next door who use chemicals. I am very fortunate my neighbors have had the chance to watch us garden organically for 13 years on our 6000 sq ft plot. We could just about feed the town, with no fertilizer. The neighbors figure if it is good enough for our trees and garden, it is good enough for the lawn too. Last year our organic soil withstood a drought that made cracks 1 inch wide, without hardly any wilting or crop loss.
I did not just get this info off the web either. I studied organic sciences for 8 years. Not only that, but I am learning to farm organically too. The solution to the worlds hunger is ORGANICS, not SYNTHETICS. Synthetics are the reason we have so much disease in the world today. It never was like this before.
With an organic program, a nation should be able to solve 90% of its disease problems. My goal is to see this happen during my lifetime. I hope you all are around to see it when it happens. Good luck!

[timturf]

What about the bridge organic fertilizers?

Organic pest control ineffective and costly for the desired results expected by clients!

[Organic-man]

Yes, the current organic pest control methods we use today are not fool proof, nor do they work all the time. But this reality is not deterring scientists, inventors and researchers from searching for answers. Keep your eyes and ears open, there are better methods and products being tested right now. I have made it my goal to prove them first. Enough said on that for now.

What is the difference between the bridge products from Harmony and the regular synthetics? There are three primary distinctions of these new-generation fertilizers. First, they are homogenous, which means that all of the ingredients are equally distributed throughout each fertilizer particle for the most even distribution and coverage possible. Most fertilizers today are simply mixtures of different nutrients in a bag; similar to how M&M’s are a mixture of different colors of in a bag. If you think of each color in an M&M bag as a different nutrient and then toss that bag over the soil, you can see how nutrients are not evenly distributed to the soil. With Harmony fertilizers, all of the “M&M’s” are crushed together into one even mix and then turned back into granules so that each new granule contains parts of all of the original ones. Second, these new fertilizers contain high levels of essential organic matter and micronutrients. It is commonly known that what makes a soil “healthy” is high organic matter content and high levels of micronutrients, yet chemical fertilizers deliver virtually none of these important aspects! A healthy soil requires the constant addition of organic matter to feed its biological life. Organic matter also acts like a sponge that holds water and prevents nutrients from washing out of the soil. Likewise, as plants utilize nutrients, they need to be replaced or eventually the soil will become depleted. It has been scientifically proven that a majority of plant diseases and viruses stems from a lack of micronutrients available to the plant. Third, these fertilizers now contain a world-leading humate. Humate is very complex substances, but you might think of it as peat moss that has further decomposed for a million years. It is a very rich and very active substance that significantly enhances the plant’s metabolism and stimulates microbial activity in the soil. There is simply no other fertilizer in the world that can deliver all of these aspects!

Does this whet your appetite?

Harmony Bridge products are spread at a rate of 5# per 1K.

[timturf]

So do you incorporate harmony products from VA in your fert program. If you are only applying 5lbs/m of harmony products, you aren't applying enough nutrients, or you are out fertilizing all the time!!!!!!

[Organic-man]

Harmony Fertilizer Products contain some of the finest humic acid in the world. If you understood the humate factor you would see what I mean. Humic acid causes the plants to require 25% less fertilizer, and still be healthier. It also increases root length by more than double, and releases many of the locked up nutrients already in the soil, especially phosporus. Most of our soils already have a surplus of phosphorus that is locked in insolubility. Humates help to chelate many other nutrients as well. The rates of Harmony products vary in application between 3 and 6 lbs per 1K, depending on soil requirements. Harmony products have a high rate of sustainability, having between 50% and 88% water insoluble nitrogen, with a sustainability range between 12 and 20 weeks, depending on the type of fertilizer used, soil, and weather conditions.

I get my fertilizer from Organic Approach in Lancaster PA. Organic Approach is the Humate manufacturer who has a partnership with Harmony of VA. Check out their website.
This year will be my first year using Harmony and Organic Approach. I'll be sure to post the results when I get them. I will be doing sustainability tests as well, to demonstrate the effectiveness of Harmony on our IL soils.

[timturf]

have to put down alot of organic fertilizer to get 20 weeks!!!!!!!