Opinion-Give it to me

[dsaldivar]

Hi Guys,

Need your opinion on a portion of a commercial bid I gave a customer yesterday. My proposal was based on a number of different services. He called me today and wanted to eliminate some of the services on my proposal and presented a counter offer on some of the services he would like to keep. The counter offer is pretty much reasonable with the exception of some I have concerns with.

Let me know your oppinions on my thinking and concerns regarding the following:

First, I gave the customer a bid price of $294.00 to trim 98 small bushes.( The bushes are arranged pretty close together and spread through a number of beds in front of the building). This works out to $3.00 per bush to trim and clean-up. I think this is a fair price considering all the other costs associated with trimming bushes (i.e. gas usage/wear and tear of gas hedger, waste dump). His comment was "It should only take you about 20 minutes to do the job" My thinking is that even if it took me a 1 minute per bush (including clean-up) we're looking at 98 minutes. Even if you cut that in half we're talking 49 minutes.
How's my thinking - what are your thoughts?

Second- I bidded to weekly maintain the beds from weeds, debris and dead heading for $8.00/wk ( the total bed square footage is 2130 sqft). Now before you jump out of your skins and want me to come do your weeds let me explain. I gave him this on the basis of him selecting my Snapshot pre-emergent applications and assuming he would pay for my season coloring service. Well you guessed it: these are services opting out of. In addition, he wants the bed maintenance every other week for $8.00. Well you can just imagine what the weeds might be like without the pre-emergent and an every other week maintenance schedule?
What's your thoughts?

Finally, I would really like the mowing, application and irrigation maintenace service contract but contimplating what to do about the above mentioned services. I plan on asking the customer if he would allow me to do the mow/application/and irrigation services and forego the bush trimming/bed maintenance services but I think he might just say never mind on the whole proposal.

What would you do? Please let me know your opinions on how you would handle this situation.

Thanks in advance for replies and comments.

(BTW - Yes I'm certified with the State to apply pesticides and herbicides)

Danny Saldivar

[HarryD]

I would not budge on the bushes you are pretty much right on. I would not touch them for anything less. Plus how does this guy know it will only take 20min. there is no way you could trim all those bushes and clean up the debris in that time

[Ground Master]

My opinion----

Its spring, I'm sure your getting alot of calls for work.....kindly explain that you can not lower your price.

[mowerman90]

Don't you hate it when people do that? I think I'd pass on the whole thing if he's gonna nit-pick things apart like that. Even if you get the mowing, irrigation maint etc. sooner or later this type of person will decide you're working much too effeciently and should be receiving much less for your work. Then they'll find some scrub to undercut your bid and then present it to you as an ultimatum. Drop your price or else. I say if you do do any work at all for this cheapskate MAKE SURE you have a contract and have all your i's dotted and t's crossed. Good luck.

[LWNMWR1]

sounds like a condo? you can never win. the condos that aren't cheap are like needles in the proverbial haystack.

[hoffmanlandscaping]

Don't budge I'd like to see him trim and clean-up 94 bushes in 20 min. Their are more fish in the sea. Sounds like thi would just be a thorn in your side. A far as the bed maintenance I wouldn't do it unless he agees to the pre emerg.

[Clay]

Danny,

This entire scenario sounds like a simple case of you losing your "posture"....

You are the professional and should be informing him on the services he needs to do a "professional" job... Yes, there is a fine line between "confident" and "cocky".... but the distinction must be made that in order for you to make the property the best it has ever been (then keep it there), you need to be the only chef in the kitchen... :-)

This bid is already history as your longterm relationship will only dwindle because you have given him too much control already...

In the future, try setting your price to do a top quality job and simply stick to it... You can explain that the reason the pre-emergent is in the bid is because it is the most "cost effective" method of maintaining a quality appearance (the chemical is simply cheaper than labor)... If they want less than quality, that is what the scrubs are around for...

I know this may sound a little strong, but you don't want every property.... just the quality ones.... Be thankful for the scrubs so you don't have to take all the PITA's.... :-)

Sincerely hope this helps... "Experience is the greatest teacher, especially when it is someone elses!"

Good Luck, Clay

[dsaldivar]

Thanks for all those that have replied. You guys are great.

Before coming back on and reading the responses the customer and I had a conversation. ( you see he left the information I originally posted on my voicemail). In my conversation I explained my ways of thinking on both of the issues in my original post. He actually understood where I was coming from so we came to a compromise. You see because this is my first commercial prospect I was willing to bend a little and learn alot.
He decided to take the pre-emergent application and I told him that I would charge him $35.00 to trim the shrubs. I told him that this was my normal hourly rate per man hour and I would track the amount of time it takes to trim these bushes. If the amount of time is significantly higher than 1 man hour we would work out an arrangement. (I know bending like someone needing a job:D ) But again, I'm willing to give a little to get that first commercial account under my belt and allows me to do some better timing tests of tasks for similiar bids in the future. Overall I think this as been a real good experience for me in terms of negotiating in the bidding process.

Whew, long winded. Sorry about that. Anyway I really appreciate you guys that have taken the time to reply with your thoughts. This site has been invaluable in my efforts to learn and grow in this business. I'm sorta green in this business (pun intended) so probably can't share alot of knowledge but look forward to contributing when I can.

Thanks again for your help and comments. Makes me feel good when what I think is right is verified by some experts.

Talk to you again,
Danny

[TotalCareSolutions]

Great Job Danny,

Your a born business man and should have 4 or 5 trucks running in no time.

[mike9497]

350 for bushes and for weeding the beds is 50 an hour for me.
don't ever let some customer tell you how long it takes to do something.i had a set of condos and the management company said it should take 2 hours to do a fall clean-up.yeah right it took more like 5. 900 for the clean-up and they thought that was high.funny how no one else came close to that price.i heard 1100 was the second lowest.this was a very large site and alot of landscapers wouldn't touch it because its so big.takes 4 guys around 8 1/2 hours to mow trim edge and clean.

[I MOW ALONE]

all i can say is thank god your doing the job and not me . for that price i wish you luck.:D

[GraZZmaZter]

The bushes are reasonably priced. I would even say a bit low, but thats me.

Id tell him to shove his bed proposal you know where.

If he doesnt want to give in, move on.

[JimLewis]

What would you do? I'd leave that property ASAP, forget his name, wipe the dust off my shoes as I left. Never to think of that miserable person again. Life's too short and there are way too many good customers who "get it" to waste time with cheapskates like that guy.

Honestly, I'd turn and walk away.

Your bid for pruning seemed a little low if you ask me. But DEFINITELY not too high. You just need to focus in a higher caliber of clientele.

[mike9497]

you should charge i feel at least 5.00 per shurb under 4 feet wide.after 4 feet a charge 3 per foot.like the long terrace kind of deals that are 10 20 feet long.but i would walk away.its tuff to do that but you will be better off.let some low baller do it

[crawdad]

Originally posted by dsaldivar
Thanks for all those that have replied. You guys are great.

.......the customer and I had a conversation. ( you see he left the information I originally posted on my voicemail). ........ He actually understood where I was coming from so we came to a compromise. You see because this is my first commercial prospect I was willing to bend a little and learn alot.
......... and I told him that I would charge him $35.00 to trim the shrubs. I told him that this was my normal hourly rate per man hour and I would track the amount of time it takes to trim these bushes. If the amount of time is significantly higher than 1 man hour we would work out an arrangement. (I know bending like someone needing a job:D ) But again, I'm willing to give a little to get that first commercial account under my belt and allows me to do some better timing tests of tasks for similiar bids in the future. Overall I think this as been a real good experience for me in terms of negotiating in the bidding process.
..........

Talk to you again,
Danny

Do I read this correctly/ You came down from 294.00 to THIRTY-FIVE BUCKS? I wouldn't call this "bending like someone needing a job' I'd call it bending over. :eek:
You asked for opinions, there's mine.
Crawdad

[dsaldivar]

Hi Guys and (Gals- probably need to be politically correct)

Appreciate again all your comments or thoughts.

Especially enjoyed (lol) crawdad's comment about bending over.
Maybe I am bending over crawdad but not before covering my a..
:D

Yes, I did agree to 35.00 per man hour with an agreement that if it takes significantly greater than 1 man hour that we would revisit the price. In addition, in convincing him to take the pre-emergent application I have a built in cushion on this service as well as others that should cover my a.. Anyway that was my thinking.

But then again I may learn something from this experience that may be valuable in future bids. Again, I think the best teacher is experience and the experience of others. That's why I frequently visit this site.

I have another commercial bid I'm in the process of bidding and probably will not budge on figures. If they accept fine, if not I'll keep movin on.

Thanks again for the responses.
Chat with you later.

Danny

[TotalCareSolutions]

What is "signifigantly longer than one hour"? 3 HOURS! Are you really going to go back to him after 2 hours and ask for more money?

Is "Take it Easy" your business name or just a signature line for the site?

[dsaldivar]

What is "signifigantly longer than one hour"? 3 HOURS! Are you really going to go back to him after 2 hours and ask for more money?

Total:
I'm not anticipating it taking longer.. I'm going to push to it in as little time as possible (without doing a sh..ty job).

Yes this is my company's name.. catchy... every customer comments on it.

Sometime I'll need to post my logo.. its catchy too.

[Gravely_Man]

I totally understand where you are coming from saying this is your first commercial account and wanting to be a little flexible. I have been there and remember that well. Hopefully this will end up working out for you without being too painful.


Gravely_Man

[GraZZmaZter]

Ok now my opinion has changed.

You would be the STUPIDEST person i know if you are even TRYING TO CONSIDER doing this job.

Tell that guy to use some Vaseline next time he tries to stick it to someone. Sounds like you don't care what he uses though.

[dsaldivar]

Thanks Gravely for the encouragement and well wishes. Appreciate it.

To GraZZ:
Show some maturity and professionalism. Although I'm new to this business competition with guys like you will eventually do wonders for my business. I see in your profile your age is 27 and you indicate that you have been business for almost 20 years. Yeah, and my parents and neighbors allowed me to mow their lawns too for a $1.00. Maybe this gives me the same years of experience as you. I'll just say that when you first started you probably were one of those low-balling scrubs but now have forgotten all those lessons learned. But maybe at the age of 7 or 8 you had all the answers.

Usually, I don't justify commenting on posts that are not enlightening or productive but couldn't resist with you leaving your level of maturity wide open and taking the first blow. I won't dignify any of your future comments because I'm to busy getting screwed. :D

Hey. try some anger management classes or maybe read the
"How To Get Some Class" for Dummies book.

[JimLewis]

Ditto what GraZZmaZter said. You must be really desperate (among other things....:rolleyes: )

[jocko1104]

Not trying to cut on you dude but I think that the other guy was right when you wentfrom $260.00 something to $35.00. That does seem like a large step.

It reminds me of an old sitcom where the guy wont pay for the paint job but will pay by the hour as long as it doesnt exceed one hour! Whats the difference?

You seem well spoken, I'm not sure why you would bend like that. If I missed soemthing please expain further, otherwise I think that it may be you who are missing it.

[Miller]

I agree what Grazzmazter said too. Did you not read what everyone else told you on this thread? You want to know why Grazzmazter said you'd be stupid for taking this? Let me explain. First, you openly ask for people's opinions - saying "Give it to me!" Then, everyone gives you their opinion. And as I read back through this thread 95% of the people posting are telling you things like, "Walk away from this account. Leave quick!", "Your original estimate was great, don't budge." and "You did what?".

And so what do you do? You ignore everyone's advice! In fact, not only do you ignore their advice to walk away, you do the opposite! Instead of walking away from what almost everyone agrees is a total loser of an account, you totally capitulate to this guy who is bending you over. And then you're insulted when someone says that is stupid?!?!?

[dsaldivar]

Jocko –

Let me try to explain. If you understand anything about business ( not just this industry but in any industry) you’ll know that sometimes you need to give something away in hopes of getting a better return later. This is why businesses do promotionals. You know like giving a free mowing if an annual contract is signed or ½ price off Aeration for anyone signing up for an annual fertilization program. My decision to do the bushes for 35.00 may not be what I was after but it doesn’t mean in the overall contract I’m not going to make a profit. The overall profit margin may be less than what I was after but the future returns will be worth it. Remember I convinced the customer to a pre-emergent application in the bedding. Not only is the profit margin of this service and others high enough to cover the bush trimming work but the customer walks away feeling like I’m fair and reasonable. The return on this I anticipate will mean referrals from this customer. Now what kind of price can you put on that. Hope this is helpful.


Miller----
Please. Maybe you didn’t CAREFULLY read my original post. I asked for thoughts and comments. Don’t be mistaken, I appreciate people who constructively give their thoughts and comments. ( Maybe you missed those thank yous in my posts) I have used many of the suggestions from members on this site, not only my business operations but in my marketing efforts as well.

Please don’t use this “If you don’t take my advice, I’m not going to play with you..” attitude :cry: . It is not professional or mature. In addition, Grazz personally attacked me. You end your response by:

“And then you're insulted when someone says that is stupid?!?!?”

Let’s look at Grazz’s actual post:
“Ok now my opinion has changed.

You would be the STUPIDEST person i know if you are even TRYING TO CONSIDER doing this job.

Tell that guy to use some Vaseline next time he tries to stick it to someone. Sounds like you don't care what he uses though.”


Now if you READ his post carefully - he is inferring that I personally was the stupid versus what you say he said and that is the action I was doing was stupid. Again, maybe you should CAREFULLY read the posts. Anyway, I’m tired of dealing with these messages so this is my last.
My suggestions to some of you is that you relax, be mature and professional. It not only will help us all here in this forum but it will make dealing in the business world a lot easier.

Get some thicker skin.

Thanks to all of you again for your thoughts and comments.
Danny