The only reason I cut grass.

[ConPro]

I cut over 200 lawns a week. The only reason I cut them is to get their side work. Mulch, fertilizer, plantings, cleanups. These are the only jobs that make good money. Mulch, wheel barrow, shovel, charge $85 a yard. Grass, you got gas, then insurance, then equiptment maintenance, then low ballers, then etc. If you want to make good money, do the extras.

[Expert Lawns]

200 lawns is a lot of lawns. how many crews and mowers do you run? I do agree that the extras bring in a big part of the money. my fall/spring cleanup is where i make it big.

[ZX12R]

Damn,200 lawns,you couldn't pay me to cut that many lawns! :D

[IBGreen]

I'd love to know how big these properties are. Do you have any commercial contracts?

[LawnGuy73]

OK....................

[hoffmanlandscaping]

I agree with you 100%. I started in mowing just to get my name out their and the quality work I do plus it helped to pay for a mower to mow my own yard. But my main goal is to build up enough of a clientel and do mainly all landscaping. You have to start somewhere.

[Evan528]

I mow 60 lawns a week just for the landscaping also. Over the years I have aquired 60 accounts that are so full service it keeps 3 people busy 50-60 hours a week. If it were up to me I wouldnt do any mowing at all.....too much expense and headache for the money!

[fastrunner]

if you are mowing over 200 lawns a week i think you would realize that you dont have any time for those side jobs... nice try though.

[Soupy]

How do you know he doesn't have 3 or more crews working these lawns. 4 two man crews can knock out those yards in a few days. If they are under 12,000 sq ft. or some larger properties mixed in with a bunch of smaller properties.

So 3 days cutting and 2 or 3 days doing other jobs. What's so unbelievable?

[patsfan]

it s a cemetery right mulch flowers sod

[little green guy]

yah me too, about 60% of my landscape work comes from my miantenance customers.

[nelbuts]

$85.00 per yard? Hahahahahaha! That is what you would hear down here when you said that. We usually get $45 for cypress mulch. Was at a seminar a few months ago and the presenter was talking about $65 per yard. Everyone looked at each other and broke out in laughter at the same time, and they were from all over the state.

Personally I hate digging holes. Money is good about 2.5 times over cost per plant. But I make good money on maintenace. We include pruning, weed control in the beds, cut, edge, trim, blow and insect control for ornamentals (mulch extra). Only visit accounts two times per month from Nov. through April and still get the same money as full time summer cutting. This year started every week visits a little earlier. Haven't had any rain in over two weeks so grass is dry in some areas even with irrigation. But still get the same money.

[Albemarle Lawn]

Repeat business, compact route, good profits.

We are rarely below $100/hour with a 2-man crew, even have a few stops where we are over $250/hour for a 1.5 hour, $325.00 stop. Won't say where, just incase lowballers are watching.

Mulch, etc, cleanups are more tedious and harder to get good profits on for us.


KB

[brucec32]

When you say "I mow 200 yards" just to get the extra work...I bet you really mean "my Mexican day laborers I pick up down at the street corner mow 200 lawns a week and mulch beds and dig holes and plant stuff", don't you?

Anyone with 2 month's experience knows that it's physically much easier to use mowing equipment billed at $50-$60/hour than to do manual stoop labor any illiterate peasant can do for half that hourly rate. You can mow 10 hours a day, day after day. I doubt you can dig holes, lay sod, push 100 lbs of fertilizer in a spreader, and spread mulch at the same pace. And around here, except for the lawn application work, that kind of stuff is what the POOR PEOPLE DO.

The guys making money landscaping barely get their hands dirty. It's labor intensive.
So don't you really mean your "employees" do it?

[Soupy]

His website states that all his crews are supervised by quality Foreman's and that his crews are experienced in all awn care needs.

Since were assuming a lot in this thread. I'll assume he makes twice as much or more per hour doing other work on properties then mowing. So when you say that it's easier to mow for 10 hours then to do labor intensive work. How about working 5 hours a job instead of 10. who says you have to work 10 hours a day to make money. Also if he is out doing the easy work for 3 or 4 days a week. then he might only be putting in a couple of hard money making days a week. I might not be able to do it day in and day out. But I can handle a couple of extra hard work a week. This is all assumption but what the heck that is what everyone else is doing. At least I'm doing it more positively. Man talk about the quality of replies on this site.

[jlcare]

I agree with Brucec32

[Gravely_Man]

Please give us more info on how your company is set up. I do agree that the extras are the moneymakers but the amount of lawns you are doing is way out of my league.


Gravely_Man

[Runner]

Nope. I know where this guy is coming from. Mowing is just a necessary evil of the biz.... like snowplowing. It's the extras that pay. I have a friend, (my pesticide mentor) that does almost 400 lawns per week. He says the same thing, esPECially for the professional centers and such. He mows them merely for more access to more work. I don't know of a whole lot of doctors that don't know other doctors, and don't associate with people who are in the market for these types of services so they can spend THEIR time out on the golf course. Yes, there is some money to be made in mowing, but the real advantage to it is that it is regular and continuous. You can count on it being there, (unless we get drought conditions, God forbid, I hope we don't have a year like LAST year.)
Hey, I have a question for Helbuts, (or anyone else down that way...) You mentioned that you get 45. per yard for Cypress mulch... How much does it COST when you go and pick it up per yard? I was always under the impression that it was a little pricey. Up here, a real common one is shredded cedar, that people like, and it's about the closest thing resembling cypress, but it isn't nearly as pretty. I think that goes for right around 25 - 30 bucks a yd. loaded. We DO have some specialty comanies that truck some cypress mulch up here, but it's real expensive, then. Any info on this would be great,... just curious.:)

[LawnGuy73]

Hmmm, I'll keep my mouth shut...:rolleyes:

[John Gamba]

I Mow Lawns so i Can Have BEER At the end Of The week Dont Need that Mulch Stuff.
John.

[nelbuts]

Cypress mulch usually goes for around $20-$22 per yard. But get this. The past few years the hottest thing is JUNK! It is scrap wood, pallets, boards, whatever ground up and then placed in this vat of red dye. They rotate back and forth like a washing machine. Then drain it and let it dry. No termite protection at all, and termites are a huge problem here. Now it gets better you can find anything in the stuff. Pieces of wire, plastic, nails, paper I mean anything. It is ****. What is the cost of this **** you ask?
Well our wholesale cost is about $30-$34 per yard.

I refuse to put it down around the homes but will lay it down in open bed areas not up against the house. It is junk for sure.

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

When I first started in this biz 17 years ago, I was 95% mowing, 5% extras. Now it's 60% mowing and 40% extras. Mowing is my bread and butter. I have a very tight route with many accounts in a cluster. Unload, knock out 5 accounts in 1 1/2 hrs and gross $150 (solo). The extra work is nice to put me through droughts and the off-season.

[cutntrim]

We used to do 200 properties with three crews of two. Problem was when the students would go back to school in September just when the turf had started to grow fast again. Also, we were hard pressed to find any time for extras when cutting that many properties.

Now I'm down to only 50 accounts with two trucks, one truck cutting only two days per week and allowing for three full days of 'extras' or landscape installs. Less labor headaches, and more work at fewer locations.

[fblandscape]

Bruce, I don't know about you.. but I would put idiots out on lawns WAY before I put them out doing apps, landscaping, or anything else. Cutting grass doesn't take much skill, and really you can't screw things up too bad... on the other hand, with apps, landscaping, or whatever else, you can get yourself into DEEP trouble FAST if you don't know what's going on.

[BRL]

I mow lawns to keep those customers for the snow plowing actually. And of course the extras and landscaping that come along also. That's with the commercial end of the biz. I do mow a few residentials, but that's mostly neighbors and other lawns I've had for a while & that are easy & worth the effort. Only about a day and a half of mowing for 1 guy, the rest is landscaping installs & the rest of the maintenance stuff.

[wacamaster]

Idiots on lawns? I see idiots on lawns all the time and I end up getting the account a month later. I think Mowing is one of the most "skillfull" trades in the landscape/lawn industry.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by Evan528
If it were up to me I wouldnt do any mowing at all.....too much expense and headache for the money!

I must be doing something wrong. Mowing is the simplest, easiest, and least headache way to make money I know. Please tell me what I'm missing. Hey, all I do is sharpen blades, buy weedwacker line and gas. OH, I do buy snacks and water, too.
When I listen to the insurance rate for landscaping for the trucks, the backhoes, trucks, and then the trucks, and backhoes themselves, plus gas for big trucks, wasted time coordinating everything I laugh. What am I missing?????
Gees, if you pay your guys $10/hour and charge the customer $50, and clear say $25 hour per man, for 4 guy’s that’s $100/hour in your pocket, and with just weekwackers, blowers and a few mowers, that under $15,000 in equipment. How much is the investment for the “big equipment, and you’re still paying the guy’s the same amount of money per hour. Plus, what happens when they break the backhoe, dump truck, skid steer or trackhoe????

Pete

[bobbygedd]

ya, im baffled myself. i like mowing, and have been able to make it very profitable

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
ya, im baffled myself. i like mowing, and have been able to make it very profitable

My brother in law and his brother are into landscaping and heavy equipment, and their guy's make about $15/$18 per hour, but they're using $100,000 to $250,000 machines. Plus, when they break a bucket, hydro line or roll the track hoe, it's really, really big dollars. Plus the insurance on four tandems is pretty high.
Pete

[broken leg]

*****, *****, ***** I cut grass I like to cut grass and I make money cutting grass. Side work I take it or leave it. :drinkup:

[ConPro]

This is the Commercial Lawn Board? Right. I honestly cut my 200 per week with a 5 person crew. The rain in May really let me rethink this decision.< IT SUCKED>. The real money is when you can charge them $85 per yard and they don't bat an eye. I keep customers on what they gross, not what I charge them for cutting the grass. You definately should cut grass for the extras. I am actually thinking of becoming a lawn nazi. If you don't get a cleanup, fertilizer, weekly maintenance, bushes, mulch, what have you, I don't want to take care of you. Always raise your prices, every year, just to weed out the cheap people. This is still a nutty business.

[TaussigLawnCare]

I am alittle confused on why conpro started this post if u were smart conpro u could make money on the lawns I have around 100 and I don't do that much extra work and I make great money.

[brucec32]

Originally posted by fblandscape
Bruce, I don't know about you.. but I would put idiots out on lawns WAY before I put them out doing apps, landscaping, or anything else. Cutting grass doesn't take much skill, and really you can't screw things up too bad... on the other hand, with apps, landscaping, or whatever else, you can get yourself into DEEP trouble FAST if you don't know what's going on.

You have a point that idiots can mess things up fast doing landscaping, but using "real mowers" I doubt you'll find many people putting new hires on lawns on ZTR's or even midsize wb's.

Based on the trucks I see around here hauling and spreading pinestraw(used here a lot), they aren't exactly raking it in. They're mostly 20 year old rust buckets with rotting wood stakes. Mulching beds and digging holes under supervision isn't highly skilled work. Knowing what to plant , how to do it, and where to do it is. But that guy isn't the one digging the hole in most cases.

But my point was that sitting on a mower making $50-$60/hour is easier for those of us owner/operators who actually are in the field than more muscle intensive work like digging holes and spreading mulch and raking it around. There is more profit POTENTIAL in landscaping, yes, but only if you're hiring strong backs to do the work for you or are unusually well suited to physical labor.

I should have omitted the term "day laborer" from my previous post. He may have real employees doing it. But I'd just watched a crew accross the street from one of my jobs mow the lawn. The foreman was having to instruct the elderly Hispanic male how to start the 21" push mower, and his helper was using a string trimmer to edge...the problem was he wasn't edging, he was scalping a nice 5" swath around the curb! Today it seems anybody who can drive by the local street corner labor pool and pick desperate immigrants up is a "landscaper", even if they have barely mowed a lawn or learned about landscaping before.

[AztlanLC]

Well I think it all depends in your market too, around here it's completly different from one county to the next or sometimes towns, I do work in 4 counties one they get lots of landscape but the problem is, you can't charge enough mowing lawns, due to the high numbers of companies chargin low prices, I usually average $25 to $35 per man/hour depending on the season, the other county I get about $50 to $60 per hour, but they don't get much landscape done, almost nothing.

I think there's money to be made in both sides, but you can not apply a standard for every region, town or country.

[bobbygedd]

200 lawns a week=around 6 grand a week gross, right? not makin money?

[ULTIMATE LAWN]

Done properly mowing can be the most profitable division of your landscape & or maint. co., especially if you include spring & fall clean-ups with your mowing figures.

Even without s/f clean-ups mowing should still be in the top 3.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
Done properly mowing can be the most profitable division of your landscape & or maint. co., especially if you include spring & fall clean-ups with your mowing figures.

Even without s/f clean-ups mowing should still be in the top 3.

Yeah... what he said. I must admit, setting up the route correctly and mowing efficiently does take a fair amount of time, but once it's done, it's done. And even if you use chainsaw type hedge trimmers (for you Ultimate Lawn :D), it's better than doing it by hand:p :p :p

Pete

[little green guy]

We do about 40 lawns in 3 days. The only reason I keep all the lawns is because thats we're alot of my landscape work comes from. I wish I could get rid of all of them. Alot of them are 2-3 million dollar houses on 3-5 acre properties that have alot of extra work though. If I had enough pavers, walls, grading, mulch and planting work from non lawn customers I would propbly get ride of all but 10 lawns. Landscapeing is harder work than mowing but I have guys that do it. I work on the job sometimes with the guys but usually I am running around getting materials, doing estemates, talking to people, collecting money and all that other good stuff. Landscaping takes more knowlage so you to have someone that knows what their doing in charge of the job but other than that anybody with 2 legs and 2 arms and a work ethic can push a wheel barrow and dig holes. On lawns though you need to have guys with a brain to do a realy good job. It's not rocket science but some people are just plain stupid and don;t understand how to do the job right. I have a guy that been cutting grass with me for like 5 years that I am now making him a forman for the lawns. Right now him and another guy are cutting 3 days and I'm helping them 1-2 days of the week. I'm hoping that within the next month I will only have help them 1 day - 0 days. But it's hard to find someone you trust to get everything done right.

I just prefer to do more landscape work than lawns. On most jobs the profit margins are alot higher than lawns because of mark up on materials plus regular labor rates.

[rodfather]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
200 lawns a week=around 6 grand a week gross, right? not makin money?


6 grand, bobby??? If I wasn't making 9 - 12 for 200 lawns, I would find another line of work...period

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by rodfather
6 grand, bobby??? If I wasn't making 9 - 12 for 200 lawns, I would find another line of work...period

Ron, now you know it depends on the size of the lawns. As for me, if I had to sit on rider for an hour or two at a time, I'd give up mowing.;)

[kris]

Originally posted by fastrunner
if you are mowing over 200 lawns a week i think you would realize that you dont have any time for those side jobs... nice try though.

Your kidding right? How the hell do you know his business? ..then you make a post calling him a liar?

Im finding that this is not uncommon at all ... many company's are only doing mowing for the extras.

[kris]

Originally posted by wacamaster
I think Mowing is one of the most "skillfull" trades in the landscape/lawn industry.

Now thats a laugh and a half ...

[mtdman]

I HATE landscaping. I HATE doing extras. I make plenty of money off just mowing and maintainence. I schedule for a full week of mowing, and don't want any extra empty time to do other stuff. Mowing is simple and easy. Little overhead, just do it. Other guys that work in my area clamor for the landscaping stuff. Let them have it. It's a pain in the *** to dig holes, lay bricks, mulch, whatever. Especially if you don't have the right (very expensive!) equipment. AND I like the regularity of having a scheduled mowing route. I know what I'll be doing (mostly) every day of the week.

I'm not looking to be the biggest or best in my area. I've got my customers, I make money, and I have a demand. I also don't have babysetting and logistical headaches. Sounds good to me.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by kris
Now thats a laugh and a half ...

So, you mean you want to add yourself to the list of those that "know it all"??? FYI, anyine can mow, but to mow well, efficiently and set up a good route does take talent. IOW, you really need to stop being a hypocrite. Now start over, and admit there’s guy’s that can blow you away in weed whacking, and in running a WB. Now, have a nice day……;) ;)
Pete

[mottster]

the way i see it is mowing gets your name out and about. You get more mowing customers from mowing other yards...if you hear them speak something like "I need to call 'so and so company' to have them come down here and lay mulch...put some sod down and put a nice retaining wall over here" thats my cue to say "Hey...why go through all that trouble...i can do that for you!"

I find landscaping a lot more exciting even though its more physically demanding...but if you're gunna be such a sissy about it then just mow yards...if thats what you make money off of thats great. Most of the customers who i do extras for i have had them for 2 or more seasons and they respect my hard working values....so even with me doing everything by myself and with hand tools they'll pay me for the cost of each of the individual 2 cubic ft bags of mulch then with my hourly fees on top. Even if i don't make as much money as mowing it'll impress them a lot and they'll get my name around even more.

just my opinion...but i get about the same amount of money from mowing and landscaping. mowing gets boring. I feel like a drone after while...but it gets me more business and more yards which are exciting for me for a while.

[bobbygedd]

our lawns average $30.

[kris]

Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
So, you mean you want to add yourself to the list of those that "know it all"??? FYI, anyine can mow, but to mow well, efficiently and set up a good route does take talent. IOW, you really need to stop being a hypocrite. Now start over, and admit there’s guy’s that can blow you away in weed whacking, and in running a WB. Now, have a nice day……;) ;)
Pete

Pete ...give it a rest ... FYI I never ever claimed to be the best at any of the things you mentioned ...Please point out where I was being hypocritical. What I don't agree with is that mowing takes the most skill in the
Landscape industry ... this comment was from a 21 yr. old kid that has likely never done a hardscape, pesticide application or allot of other things that take allot more skill then running a wb. BTW Pete ..I can compare, I have spent over 25 years doing Landscape construction. Mowing is definitely not our bread and butter.

[ConPro]

Every one has an oppinion on what is good money. I do 200 lawns a week, brings in around $6000 per week. Minus labor and machinery maintenance, probably $3000 grand per week. Side work pays for alot also. So If I make $3000 per week at 65 hours per week, comes to about $45 an hour. Is that good money? Some days I think so, so days it's not.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by kris
Pete ...give it a rest ... FYI I never ever claimed to be the best at any of the things you mentioned ...Please point out where I was being hypocritical. What I don't agree with is that mowing takes the most skill in the
Landscape industry ... this comment was from a 21 yr. old kid that has likely never done a hardscape, pesticide application or allot of other things that take allot more skill then running a wb. BTW Pete ..I can compare, I have spent over 25 years doing Landscape construction. Mowing is definitely not our bread and butter.
I think we really need to keep in mind who's running what. IMO, and again just my opinion, your laughing about mowing taking little skill really depends on comparing apples to apples. In landscaping it's no skill to run a wheelbarrow or move bricks or spread mulch. OTOH, it does take much skill in mowing to use a backpack blower, either. However, putting a nice edge on a flower bed at a fast pace is not something to sneeze at, as is the ablity to run a backhoe. As in the photo below, it may look easy, but to mentally reverse 4 control inputs at once and keep track of them second to second takes a large amount of skill. Here, left is right, up is down, forward is backward and clockwise is counterclockwise.

[kris]

LOL ..Ok Pete ... if your mowing with that you win.

As for the rest of it ...the statement was "I think Mowing is one of the most "skillfull" trades in the landscape/lawn industry. " Nothing about setting up the route etc etc ... given the controls on the mower I'll put it ahead of pushing a wheelbarrow.;)
Have a great day!

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by kris
LOL ..Ok Pete ... if your mowing with that you win.

As for the rest of it ...the statement was "I think Mowing is one of the most "skillfull" trades in the landscape/lawn industry. " Nothing about setting up the route etc etc ... given the controls on the mower I'll put it ahead of pushing a wheelbarrow.;)
Have a great day!

Kris, you can't get away that easy:D . I will totally agree with you that for average mowing it's not very hard. Maybe we can both agree it depends on the degree we take the seriousness of our work.
Pete

[TaussigLawnCare]

okay I think we decided running a mower isn't hard but I think it is hard to keep 100 diferent people happy and on scedule and keep all your workers doing quality work. Landscaping can be more fun and if you are creative it will be even better but then wheeling a few truck loads of rock is alot more work then mowing ever will be.

[lawn perfection]

I MOW 25 RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS. I'M A PART TIMER, I REALLY ENJOY MOWING. I DO SOME EXTRAS MULCH,CLEANUPS ETC. LOTS OF EXTRAS CAN BE MORE MONEY BUT ALOT MORE WORK ALSO.