fertilizing shady lawns depress me ,and make cme wonting to go back to cutting grass.

[ant]

some lawns that i fertilize have shady back lawns.
when i first picked them up as a cust.there shady area was green and somewhat full, but over the years and some time months the turf declines big time. in the shady areas i cut the rate of n almost in half. could i be still over doind it. i been useing lesco fert.
anthony

[KirbysLawn]

As much as I really hate to ask this question, have you taken a lab soil test?

[Lazer]

Grass is a sun-loving plant.

Trees get bigger year after year. Soil gets more compacted. Shady lawns do not have the energy to process the salts contained in your (our) Lesco fertilizers.

Take Kirby's advise, pull a plug, get it tested and then sell an aeration and lime application.

[excel25]

What kind of grass is it? and like Kirby said GET A SOIL TEST! Good shot at selling an overseeding.

[BRL]

And don't forget to sell the overseeding (with good shade tolerant seed) to fill in those sections. Also, if you know any good tree companies in your area, hook up with them to prune the trees to allow more sunlight to filter through. Tell your customers that's what's needed, help them find a contractor to do it, then get a cut from the tree company or a promise for future referals from them. A little more sunlight coming through the canopy can make a big difference.

[MJB]

I aggree with everyone's solution to your problem,. But 1 more thing to add, those trees will suck the water bigtime. We have sections near trees where we water more often because it dries up in just a few hrs and your grass get's stressed from lack of h2o. Grass is much thicker this year, just from watering more often. We tried deep watering and it doesn't work in this case, except the trees love it.

[ant]

thanks for all the replys, most of the lawns got soil test (composit of whole lawn shady and sunny) and the results are normal. but what is depressing is when i go on lawns that chem lawn ,lawn dr. take care of ,they are some what better shape. and i get to the point to were i feel i am the problem.
anthony

[Charles]

Anthony, i was feeling good this morning until I read your post. Now i am feeling depressed. Thanks alot

[jaclawn]

One of the premier builders in out area(builds a very nice house for $500K+) goes the whole 9 yards and installs sod on all new homes. The problem is that he uses a straight bluegrass sod, and there are often shady areas. Over the years the bluegrass will deteriorate. The trees get bigger, and the grass gets thinner. The average homeowner has no clue about different types of grass, and puts the blame on the maintenance contractors. Their position is that it looked good for a while, and then under your care it is now thin. They don't realize that the premium lawn they paid for was not the correct one.

WHat I have done on some of these full service accounts is to overseed after their annual aeration. I simly will broadcast some seed in the shady areas. I will usually use a perreinal rye mix, or some of the fine fescues if it is really shady. I know that this is not the most effiecent method of introducing new types of grass in an area, but it is better than nothing.

[Lazer]

2 minutes of customer education eliminates 85% of your problems.

[ant]

lazer: elaborate more please.
anthony

[Toddppm]

The reason chemlawn, lawndoctors lawn looks better is probably cause they sold them the aerating and overseeding. Lawn doctors overseeding commercials have been on tv here for the last couple weeks, man i couldn't imagine how many calls they get from that!

[KirbysLawn]

Anthony, please shere the soil test lab values with use, maybe we can help.

Ray

[ant]

I HEAR YOU GUY'S. WHAT SHOULD I DO THIS TIME OF THE YEAR ,IN A FEW WEEKS THE LEAVES ARE GOING TO DROP. IT WAS ALWAYS DRILLED INTO MY HEAD TO SEED SHADED AREAS IN THE EARLY SPRING . HOW DO ONE GET AWAY WITH SEEDING IN THE SHADE IN THE FALL?
ANTHONY

[ant]

CONNOL RESULTS= Ph 6.4
RESULTS OF ANALYSIS...p=200+/k=256/ca=2228/mg=541/
CALCULATED VALUES...cec=8.2/k=4.0/ca=68/mg=27

MCMAN=PH 7.2 P=200 K=157 CA=2252 MG=301
CEC=7.1 K=2.8 CA=79 MG=18


MANLY=PH 7.1 P=200 K=163 CA=2668 MG=666
CEC=9.7 K=2.2 CA=69 MG=29
ALL SAMPLES ARE A COMPOSIT OF WHOLE LAWN. (SUNNY AND SHADY AREAS)
ALL ARE LESCO RESULTS (CLC LABS)
ANTHONY

[BRL]

My opinion of an elaboration of Lazer's comment:
Lazer was responding to the comments that Jaclawn had made (and probably some of the other ideas presented). If you spend a couple of minutes educating your customers about Jaclawn's and other's comments, the problems of customers associating problems in their lawns with your work can hopefully be avoided. That's assuming, of course, that you (or any of us) are not really causing whatever the problem may be.

[KirbysLawn]

Anthony, when was the last fert app. done? Was this test done after a fert application? First one looks good except high P. The last 2 look like they could use a little Sulfer to drop the pH. I agree with everyone else, aerate and seed. I would talk to Lesco or someone from your area before applying any more fert with P in it.

[Lazer]

That's correct, BRL

I've seen where a landscaper installed bluegrass sod in a shady backyard that I maintain. I informed the customer that would not be sustainable. Knowing that, they were not unhappy with MY service when the lawn was all gone by the next summer.

But it also means getting your customers to have reasonable expectations reagerding their shaded turf.

As far as the soil tests, all have a low cation exhange capacity. The soil is devoid of organic matter, which holds nutients and moisture. If I got paid enough, I would only use organic fertilizers on these areas.

[jaclawn]

I agree with Lazer, however many people will think that you are only trying to sell them something that they don't really need.

[ant]

ray: the last app.was .5lb of n/1000sf
in early july
southern new jersey soils are all high "p" 100% of my tests come back high.
all tests were done feb.2000
all lawns recieved a total of 3.75 lbs of n thus far this season.
anthony

[cutting edge]

"the lawns got soil test (composit of whole lawn shady and sunny)"

At the beginning of your post you said the shady areas were in the back yard. You should take separate tests for the front and back yards. From the quote above it sounds as if you only took one test.

[ant]

yes only one test was taken per lawn. for the most part the shade is most of the lawn,and i feel that the little bit of sunny area soil that was mixed in would not make any change in the results. i am talking about out of a 5000 sf lawn <1000 sf is sun.
anthony

[Edited by anthony on 11-01-2000 at 09:21 PM]

[HOMER]

Ya'll probably already know this but I'll say it anyway...........grass needs 8 hrs filtered sun or 4 hours direct sun, if it ain't getting it it probably will decline. We have the same problems down south and most of the customers are too hardheaded to realize this. I tell them centipede won't grow in the shade and what do you think they plant......................centipede. Trim up the trees and let the sun shine through.

Homer

[ant]

some good old treads i dug up.
anthony

[MATTHEW]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the drought in your area was
fairly severe.

I'm wondering if you're seeing dirt or just brown. Many shade turfs have excessive thatch. During a drought, roots will tend to grow upwards to absorb morning dew. Then they die off, adding to the thatch already present.

If this is the case, there is no other option but renovation.