- CONGRATULATIONS-

[turfquip]

Pat yourselves on the back. On the Kohler issue we've managed to fall into complacency - the initial thread is dropping into obscurity and frankly, I hope no one chooses to resurrect it//

On a larger scale, What is it about the dynamic of this forum that causes things not to get done on certain issues? Our egos too big ... blow off a little steam between mowing shifts?

Maybe Chuck's not quite "there" yet but I think he should appoint a committee to lobby manufacturers on behalf of members in matters of problem resolution; group purchasing discounts, etc. Chuck needs to surround himself with intelligent, articulate business people as LS continues to grow; ones who can quickly generate "talking points" on any subject on a moments notice/

All that does take funding though...

[Administrator]

Like I had mentioned before.

LawnSite.com is in its infancy.... "you havent seen anything yet".

I have been concentrating on building a stable system and member database. I have not had the time to sit down and contact manufacturers, etc.

LawnSite.com and inner projects take a LOT of time and money. There is just not enough hours in the day to get it all done by myself.

I have about half a dozen projects going on right now that will be fueled by LawnSite.com. I just need to get them done and available for the members.

Chuck Keough

[bob]

Chuck, I can't wait to see what's up your sleeve! :)

[dhenegar]

Keep up the good work Chuck, can't imagine what you have in store for the future, but from what you have created now i'm sure it will be awesome!

[BRL]

Turfquip,
Just asking. What do you feel the people participating in the Kohler thread should do? You seem to have strong feelings on the issue obviously. Chuck does enough to provide this site for us, so for the sake of my comments, let's leave him out of it. Many of us post at this site to ask, answer, & many times blow off steam about our green industry related businesses. I have a Kholer engine & it used to run badly until my mechanic was working on it & made an adjustment that he said the factory sends out incorrectly. (I don't remember what it was, but if anyone cares I can ask him) Since then it has run fine. From what I read in that thread a lot of guys had serious problems with their Kohlers, and a lot of people spoke up to say they are great. It also sounds like the ones having problems are not getting good customer service in resolving those issues & I hope I never have that problem. Now, what exactly do you think members of the forum could do to help those guys having the service problems. Being the strongest advocate of getting Kohler to change their ways, did you offer to start some sort of petition drive to ask Kohler to get their act together. Or maybe offer to organize some sort of boycott? I can't think of any other ideas , but if you have good ones, by all means get them going if you feel you (and Lawnsite) can make a difference. This might be more constructive than making a chastising comment like "What is it about the dynamic of this forum that causes things not to get done on certain issues? Our egos too big ... " I think that the people who were having problems felt pretty good to have a forum of their peers to "blow off steam" to regarding their Kohler problems, even though blowing off that steam probably doesn't actually do anything to help their situations. There have been many other blowing off steam threads & posts here & for the most part it seems like everyone else tries to help support that person with their comments & without actually doing something about it. So it seems to me you should do something about the issue instead of commenting that the forum is doing nothing about it. Just my thoughts on your comments. Whew I'd better get back out into the rain, too much thinking here at the computer on this dark day.

[thelawnguy]

I, for one, have had no problems with Kohler, nor do I know of anyone outside of the ***** session thread who has had problems.

Could be that the thirty or so engine problems discussed in your thread are just a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of engines in trouble-free service.

[Lazer]

No.

As an active member in 3 local, 2 state and 1 national association, I'd like to think I'm "in tune" with what's going on out there.

Kohler definetly has a problem.

I do think they're getting better, though.

In 1998 my LOCAL dealer replaced 214 "SAM" modules (Spark Advancement Module) + countless headgaskets, etc.

Isolated? Hardly.






(BTW: I doubt Kohler has more than 1 million engines in use today. Possibly, if you count the ones WAITING for service at dealers.)

[Barkleymut]

We shouldn't have to do anything to communicate with Kohler. All manufacturers should be monitoring each and every post on this forum. They could better their products and make them more attractive to their customers (us). The internet is the number one way Americans and I guess the rest of the world, gather information. That is why I can't belive Great Dane has no website and that Kohler hasn't responded to the aforementioned thread. Possibly Chuck could create a new designation in addition to Member, Senior Member, etc. A new Manufacturers Representative designation. This way they could acknowledge the concerns we have and let us know what they are doing to remedy the situation. My one and only point is if I were a manufacturer I would patrol these boards like no tomorrow. New ideas could be gained and a definite competitive advantage could be gained by listening to someone other than their own area reps.

[turfman99]

to respond to me in any fashion other than to tell me it's my fault. I am still waiting for them to take a proactive step in resolving the probelm without me applying large amounts of pressure.

Some business's jsut cannot undrstnd the dynamics of todays end user market, because they have little or no contact with the end user market, nor do they give a damn about the end user market. Those of us affected by there problems have daily contact with the end user market, our customer, who also does not give a damn about our engine problems or extra cost incurred because of a defective product.

Just a few isolated case on Lawnsite ?? Thats BS. You take the number of prolem cases cited on this forum, multiply that by, or 200,000 or so and you might have a grip on the number of problems that manufactuer has out there. I have inside information from people in manufacturing companies, that they and Kohler are well aware of the exent of the problems,but are scared sh--less about the economical ramifications of the problems they are having. Just deny theres a problem and thus, there is no problem. Blame it on the idiot's who use the machines.

As for this forum, I intend to stay close to it and I am going to contact Chuck about some things I have working. This is bu far, the most used forum for truf care I have found yet, including some sponsored by major publications, and the cost prohibitive ALCA Association and forums. Their cost are out of site.This has the highest registered site that I am aware of.

The Internet will be a valuable, non deniable, essenial part of every ones day to day business. Get on now, or get blown by.

I do not send in those stupid circle the number cards anymore. I do not call 800 numbers. I do not wait for salespeople to call me with lies and bullshit, and overpriced products. I go to the Internet, and the web sites and communicate with vendors and clients that way. I take charge of my research and purchasing process. I know the costs of vehicles before we buy, I know to avoid Kohler, I know Turfco is pioneering the way equipment will be purchased in the future, I own UPS stock. Better be on the web or have a web site or I am not looking at it.

Done for the day. OUT.

[Runner]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by turfquip dot com
[B]

Chuck needs to surround himself with intelligent, articulate business people as LS continues to grow; ones who can quickly generate "talking points" on any subject on a moments notice/


Well, he already has ONE, his name is Eric.

[thelawnguy]

"In 1998 my LOCAL dealer replaced 214 "SAM" modules (Spark Advancement Module) + countless headgaskets, etc."

This number is meaningless without knowing the number of units total. 2000? 20,000? Were the repairs to individual engines, or did some engines have multiple repairs? Does the local dealer only repair units that it sold, or does it field repairs from a wider area? 214 modules out of possibly 100,000 units in service in this market area, for example, isn't what I or anyone else would consider excessive.

Are repairs necessary in larger percentage of engines on a particular mfr's equipment? If so maybe the problem is the engine isnt matched to the equipment (over/underpowered, inadequate clearances for air circulation, etc).

I sympathize with you who have problems that need results, but if you want someone from Kohler to pay attention its time to start dealing with facts and not emotion.

[accuratelawn]

Lawnguy....rep for Kohler?
Mine 25 hp done after 70 hours!

[Jerrys Lawn Service]

I feel like I just hit the lotto! I've been running Kohler
engines for the past 6 years and have'nt had any problems,
I guess good maintenance, lucky me!

Good Luck!
jerryslawnservice@home.com

[thelawnguy]

Same here. And I change oil and filter at a blasphemous (gasp) 100 hours...

[Charles]

This is like saying "firstone sold millions of tires. But only about 120 people dead from defective ones" So I guess thats a good percentage. Should we just expect comapanies to turn out some many defective product out of some many produced? It really only matters to the people who actually get stuck with the defective ones. But one day that may be YOU. I have had good luck with kohlers so far. But i really smpathise with those who havent. You know they say europeans just throw away american tires when they buy a car. And get the ones made over their? America needs to start demanding quality at least over 95%

[fdew]

I don't understand how anyone can question that Kohler has a problem. People don't make this stuff up. If a man buys a new piece of equipment he wants to brag about it or at least feel proud that he did his homework and made a good decision. To come out and say "I bought a new xxx and the 25 hp engine went at 25 hrs" is to say Kohler has a problem. I am not against Kohler. I have a 22 command with 1000 hrs a 25 year old 12 hp with no problems. I take a 1948 and a 1926 Kohler light plant to antique engine shows. I have a Kohler belt and a Kohler hat and a collection of old Kohler light plant literature, and even I can see that Kohler has a problem. If they had any sense. They would come on this forum, admit it, and tell us what they are going to do about it. It is not up to us to assemble the data in spread sheet format. It is only up to us to tell them they have a problem.

PS Kohler has a problem.

Frank

[Lazer]

lawnguy,

My dealer sells 250 mowers or so from that location. Pretty much services only what he sells.

I had SAM modules fail on 100% of my pre-1999 Kohlers.

I do not embrace mediocrity in the way that you do.

[thelawnguy]

I had ZERO per cent of my pre-99 Kohlers fail What does that mean? according to your theory Lazer from my experiences with Kohler your guys must be beating the snot out of the equipment and blaming it on the mfr or maybe you too should "embrace mediocrity" as you put it and you may spend more time mowing and less time taking shots at someone who doesnt embrace and revere every word you type.

BTW I doubt Kohler manufactures the SAM modules.

If you would take a moment and dismount your High Horse you would understand that thirty complaints on a bulletin board does not a huge problem make. Come up with some broader based numbers and maybe the level of interest from Kohler will increase. From what Ive read and experienced from other contractors using Kohler engines I dont see it as anything more than a gripe session circle jerk.