Water in tires for traction

[BUSHMASTER]

I know that most all have heard that folks filled a mix of water and antifreeze in tractor tires for traction before i go out and buy the $20. kit to do this ....has anyone tried this on their drive tires on ya'lls mowers? how did it do?

[Lazer]

My Ride-On spreader came from the factory that way.

The idea was to lower the center of gravity.

You don't leave yourself with a lot of variation in air pressure.

I wouldn't do it. I'd foam-rubber fill them. Accomplishes the same thing and guarentees against flats.

[Charles]

I foam filled the front tired of my Kubota. Made the tires weigh 75 lbs each. What a work out with no power steering. All that weight led to the cracking of the rims. Had to have them welded. Now that the tired are smoothing out, I can't waite to chainsaw those tires off the rims. And just go back to using slime

[bob]

Water in your tires? I would be afraid of the rims rusting, even with the anti-freeze.

[Scag48]

On our orchard tractor, we have what my dad calls "calcium" in our tires. It's a white foamy liquid that foams everywhere when you get a flat. The tires are pretty heavy, around 75 pounds. It's cool after you get the flat fixed and there's calcium in it, you can hear it sloshing around in the tire.:)

[southside]

Putting water in ztr tyres probably won't make too much
difference,as they are only small tyres.

Bob, Before you put water in your tyres you should put a tube in first. Tubeless tyres on mowers and tractors are a waste of time. The rims take too much punishment to remain
airtight.

Karl

[Cutter1]

I asked my Exmark dealer about foaming my tires on my Laser. He said that I should NOT do it, do to the fact that the tires give some as they go over rough terrain!! Tire foam is at a set pressure and has no give.

[Lazer]

I half agree with him. We do not have any REAR tires on Lazer/Z-Masters foam filled for that very reason.

[bob]

We seem to have gone from a water in the tires topic to a foam in the tires topic. So here's my foam in-put, Grasshoppers with front style decks, have foam filled deck tires from the factory.

[zcases]

Bushmaster - you mentioned a $20 calcium kit. Where'd you see that? Also - I have been searching for some old posts about adding RV antifreeze to tires but can't find them now. I want to try it too. They talked about removing the valve stem and pumping it in somehow. Doesn't seem like it would be too difficult - I will let you know if I get a chance to try it in the next few days...........

[plowboy81]

We have fluid in all of our tires on our tractors(farm tractors). No the rims won't rust for the lack of oxygen going in and out. We use a mix of antifreeze and water 50/50. They also make fluid you can buy but it is only the same mix. The way to do it is to take the tire off and take out the valve stem. Not the black rubber thing, but screw out the valve inside of the black thing. Will take some time but it will work. You can buy a screw on adaptor to make it easier from Napa or AutoZone.

[Bigfoot]

There are better choices than calcium for weight in the tires. Calcium will rust the outside of the rims & any other metal it is spilled on & not cleaned off. I believe it is a methanol mixture that is being used in tractors in this area.

[plowboy81]

To get totally off the subject, this is to Bushmaster or anyone else who loves these guns. How do you like the 24" Varminter rifle? I have 3 bushmasters and am wondering about the 24".

[CMLLawnServices]

We also have calcium in our snow blowing tractor rear tires, it has been in them for 20 years and the rims have only cosmetic rust on the out side.

[ducky1]

You might want to check with your dealer if you have a new machine that is still under warranty to make sure that filling the drive tires with foam or anything will not void it. It adds some weight for the hydros to pull all of the time. Some manufactures will void the hydro warranty if there is added weight to the drive tires.

[Phishook]

Give it a shot! I don't see a benefit for flat ground, but it could help on hills.

[DLCS]

I would worry about getting a flat and all that antifreeze leaking on the customers lawn. :eek:

[plowboy81]

Antifreeze won't hurt the grass at all. Shouldn't be a problem.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Hummm...a good load of slime??? Add weight for traction and protect against flats? How much would you put in? Would that really work?

I wouldn't do the foam thing either. As for the other fluids listed, what if you did puncture a tire....would these fluids leaking out kill grass? That's something to consider for sure.

[steinerguy]

We have used calcium filled tires for years on the farm also. I cannot speak to new tractors, but everything we have is a tubed tire so the liquid did not come in contact with the rims unless you have a flat. Yes, when it is added, you remove the valve core, not the stem, and pump it in. The tire is filled approx. to the crest of the tire where the fluid will just come over the top of the rim. The balance is air. This allows for a reasonable ride and some adjustment if desired. The filling with air and fluid is obviously done with the valve stem rotated to the up position so when the fill line is removed, nothing leaks out, then the core is reinstalled and air added.

I would never add fluid without a tube as it is very hard on steel wheels.

[lahanko]

Actually tubeless tires are to be filled just to the point that at no time are the rims on the inside to be subject to air, thus no rust.
I may be wrong here but adding weight to the tire may not be the same as adding weight to the tractor. I would think weight added to the tires would be easier to propel than say weight added to the tractor frame.

[plowboy81]

If you add weight to the tires it takes alot more energy to propel the equipment than if adding the same amount of weight on the equipment.

[lahanko]

Really? I would have guessed the other way around.
I often wondered about that.

[Envy Lawn Service]

I'm serious about wanting to try this.....

So putting in tubes is the best way?
How much more load would it actually add to the drive?

The power robbing portion is the part I'm most concerned about. On my machine, it seems like the drive system puts way more load on the engine than the deck.

Is there something I could do to counteract the extra load?

My drive is hydro-gear pumps and parker ross wheel motors, 2 gallon reservoir and 2 gallons of conventional 20w-50 motor oil.

[karlInSanDiego]

A couple of thoughts-

Water in tire should not affect rotational mass like a fixed wheel weight would, because the water is free to retain its inertial moment- that is, if the water doesn't want to rotate with the tire, it doesn't have to. That means the axle won't have significant extra resistance. The opposite is also true when you're stopping.

Comment about volume of water in ZTR-
I found this formula to estimate how much water your tire will take if you fill to valve stem when wheel is vertical and stem is at top.
2.47 x shoulder height x shoulder width x (shoulder height + rim diameter)
This formula was pretty close when I filled my tires with a water/antifreeze solution 4/1.

I used the antifreeze to prevent corrosion. Regarding the theory that no air = no rust and that if your water covers the whole rim all the time that it won't rust, I don't believe it. Did you ever see a piece of steel in the bottom of a stream or quarry? Water has oxygen in it. Farmers use calcium chloride solution because it weighs significantly more than water does for the same volume. It also corrodes better than a Porsche, so inner tube would be a must.

I did a lot of reading about this before I did it, but I'm struggling to increase traction as ALL of my mowing is on a slope. Since I filled them myself, the only cost was the antifreeze.

The virdict - it wasn't worth it for two reasons. My drive tires (18x9.5-8) only hold a little over 4 gallons which netted me 35 lbs. each. Relative to the weight of the ZTR mower [Grasshopper 1600BT w/fabricated front deck] (I estimate at least 800 lbs if not a lot more) this 70lb change was noticable, but not very significant. Cast iron wheel weights could have added much more weight. The other reason it wasn't worth it. I have Carlisle SuperLug tires that can sometimes grip well enough that the tire wants to slide relative to the rim. On my first test, one of my wheels leaked from the bead and went flat (but not empty). My tire pressures are not high enough (10 lbs pressure) to ensure a great seal at the bead, but higher pressure significantly reduces my contact patch.

If you do hydrofill your tires consider some of these tips-

1) When I filled, I just gravity fed with a funnel, spare air hose, and my tire filling chuck after taking the valve core out. For every 2 pints or so that you add, you'll need to unhook and bleed off air pressure, so it will take a long time to do (mine took about 2 hours each, once I got into a rhythm.)

2) Inner tubes were not a good option for my tubless tire because the valve is located on the rear most part of the dish of the rim and valve stem points outward in the direction of the axle. This means a major twist in any inner tube. If your rims permit tubes, they will protect against corrosion and leakage or lubricated slippage at the bead. TUBES ARE GOOD

3) You'll need to leave some air in the tire, both to allow for easy pressure adjustment and more importantly because LIQUID WILL NOT COMPRESS. This means a 100% filled tire would be completely non compliant and would knock your fillings out right before your tire failed. When you check, fill and bleed air, you'll always need to rotate your tire to the 12 o'clock position. Water/Antifreeze in your pressure guage will probably destroy it over time.

4) When adding weight, via water or cast iron, you should consider the load rating of your tires.

I hope my advice is helpful.

[David Haggerty]

Weighted tires will tear a mower up!

Driveline and frame too.

I'm using those new low profile soft sided tires. Everybody has them. Dico, Chen-Shin and Carslile.
The ones from Carslile are called Turf Masters.

They look like they're half flat. Great traction.

They might kind of screw you up if your mower depends on the drive tires to establish height of cut. But I'd bet you could adjust past that.

Dave

[Oldtimer]

don't even think about filling mower tires with solid foam or water.

The only benefit will be to the dealer's shop.

[nelbuts]

Had a couple of JD 755 tractors that we put water in front and rear tires. Worked great. If you live where the temp is below freezing then add the antifreeze. Make sure it is a good quality anti corrosive and you will be ok. Wait till you get a nail in your tire though. Funny as can be!

BTW I never put tubes in my tires, period. If you get a nail you have a flat that you can't fix easy in the field. With tubless carry an air tank, plugs, and a spray bottle of soapy water and you will be back in business in minutes.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Originally posted by nelbuts
Had a couple of JD 755 tractors that we put water in front and rear tires. Worked great. If you live where the temp is below freezing then add the antifreeze. Make sure it is a good quality anti corrosive and you will be ok. Wait till you get a nail in your tire though. Funny as can be!

Does that stuff kill the grass if you spring a leak?

[leadarrows]

Years ago I tried antifreeze in a lawn roller so I wouldn't have to drain it in the winter. It sprang a leak and yes it kills the grass.I would not recommend putting a liquid ballast in tires of any thing you intend to keep long term. My old Massey Harris needs new rims because somebody did that to it. Rusted out so bad I cant save them.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Ok, so what about installing some tubes and filling with slime or the like?

[Envy Lawn Service]

OK, price is the issue when thinking of using slime or something like that. I thought a man could pick up 1 or 2 of those 5 gallon buckets w/pump fairly reasonable.

NOT!!!

Most 5 gallon sealant buckets weigh around 46-47 lbs each which seems good. But it's an expensive way to go just to try something like this.

[Oldtimer]

Everyone who anticipataes favorable results from filling their tires with liquid should try it once.

[DEEJ]

I have calcium filled farm tractor tires and windshield washer fluid filled small tractor tires. Both are excellent. Both work extremely well.

Most farm tractors around here have calcium in the tires. It works well but is very corrosive if tubes are not used. Tubes are usually used in the tractor tires and then calcium is pumped in through the valve stems.

The local John Deere dealer used to fill the garden tractors with calcium as well. Mine was done at the dealer, with no tubes. In about 10 years the rims rusted through. The Deere dealer now fills the small stuff with windshield washer antifreeze. With Calcium the tires were 82 lbs each. With WW antifreeze they were 75 lbs each. Not a huge difference and much better rust control.

To get the WW antifreeze in, they do it one of two ways. With tubeless tires break the top bead and pour in as much as you can with the tire laying flat (this is the way I did it). With tubed tires they pump it in through the valve stem.

As mentioned in a post above, the fluid in the tires IS NOT fixed to the tires. It is free to move. Therefore there is little to no additional strain on the drivetrain. The post that indicated it will tear it up is absolutely not correct. The fluid is pushing down, it is not restricting wheel movement like a solid tire would. The added strain on the drivetrain is negligable.

Slime is thicker. If the tire was completely filled with this stuff is might make it act more like a solid tire - and thus add more strain to the drivetrain. If the Slime stiffens when cold the tire will be severely out of balance - maybe enough to affect things even on a slow moving vehicle. This I would not try.

DJ

[Oldtimer]

Like I said, "try it with a Z mower".

[DEEJ]

Oldtimer,

You must be quoting your thoughts, not your written words, you didn't say that!

You don't indicate if it is good or bad. You seem to imply that it is bad. Can you clarify? If you think it is bad, please explain what the problems were so we can understand.

On the positive side: Traction with fluid will definitely be better than without, hard to dispute that (or there are a lot of farmers doing things wrong). The center of gravity will certainly be lower - no brainer there. With a thin fluid there will be negligable extra strain on the drivetrain - no problems there.

On the negative side: There can be rim rust problems if a tube is not used (worse with some fluids (calcium) than others). If you have a flat you need a fluid refill. The fluid MAY kill the turf if you get a flat on the lawn.

For me the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

Are there factors on the negative side that we are missing? Have you tried it, and what were the problems you saw, if any?

There is a company here with a Kubota ZD21 with many weights hanging off the front and back of the machine. Not sure why. I would put fluid in the tires long before I did that. For me, fluid works well.

DJ