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The Green Way
05-28-2003, 10:08 AM
I have only been in business for a handful of years but I was wonderin if any of you all have gotten prenups before you got married, to protect your business? My buddy just went through a divorce and his company was alot bigger than mine, in fact he took it over from his father and now he may have to sell it cause his ex-wife is talking half! After only 5 years of marriage!!!

Green Pastures
05-28-2003, 11:30 AM
I look at it this way. If I feel like I have to protect myself and my interests from my future bride, she would instantly become my ex-future bride. At the very least I would get into some premarital counseling and discover the reason I felt I needed to protect myself. If I could not overcome these feelings I would not marry that woman.

Trust and love go hand in hand. You cannot trust without love and you cannot love without trust.

I believe that when you get married you are no longer two separate people, but that you really become one. One in Christ and one joint being working together for each other's interests. Laying down selfish interests for the joy of looking out for the other persons interests.

In a perfect world, where both parties involved are actively more interested in the others interests more than their own, it's a great relationship. This breeds deeper trust and love through appreciation of your partners devotion to you.

Scraper
05-28-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Green Pastures
I look at it this way. If I feel like I have to protect myself and my interests from my future bride, she would instantly become my ex-future bride. At the very least I would get into some premarital counseling and discover the reason I felt I needed to protect myself. If I could not overcome these feelings I would not marry that woman.

Trust and love go hand in hand. You cannot trust without love and you cannot love without trust.

I believe that when you get married you are no longer two separate people, but that you really become one. One in Christ and one joint being working together for each other's interests. Laying down selfish interests for the joy of looking out for the other persons interests.

In a perfect world, where both parties involved are actively more interested in the others interests more than their own, it's a great relationship. This breeds deeper trust and love through appreciation of your partners devotion to you.

Nice view, but unfortunately the real world is a whole lot different.

Bluesteel
05-28-2003, 12:10 PM
I used to think a prenuptial agreement was selfish and just something to set a marriage up for a fall. But thereís another way to think of it. If your bride is only interested in you, then what better way to show it by agreeing to a pre-nup?

My best friendís uncle was getting a divorce. They ended up in the Judgeís chambers and the Judge asked what caused the separation. His wife got all teary-eyed and said it all started with the pre-nup. Blah, blah, blah Ö So the Judge gave them time alone. She convinced that guy that the marriage had been destined to fail with the pre-nup, but she really did love him, and things could be great (even better) if she just didnít have that ďthingĒ hanging over her head. So he called the Judge back in and asked if there was a way to revoke the pre-nup. I donít know the details, but the Judge made it happen. On the way out of the court-house, the tears evaporated and she started telling this guy what an idiot he was for giving up half of his property. He ended up getting the Judge to rescind that order.

I can still see a womanís side when it comes to property, possessions, etc. But a business is your livelyhood. How could someone justify a claim to half of that?

DLCS
05-28-2003, 12:20 PM
I have to agree with Green Pastures on this one. There is nothing like a prenup to say I don't trust you. If there is no trust, there is no true love.

Scraper
05-28-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Bluesteel


I can still see a womanís side when it comes to property, possessions, etc. But a business is your livelyhood. How could someone justify a claim to half of that?

The law looks differently on it, especially if the business is the sole breadwinner. You have to admit, at some point in time the noninvolved spouse is going to make sacrifices for the better of the company and that comes with a price.

Bluesteel
05-28-2003, 12:28 PM
Fine, then quantify those sacrifices and how much it helped the company to succeed from the point of the marriage. She deserves half of that increase. Not half of the entire value. Whoís being selfish now? Thatís why pre-nups are a good idea.

Trust and respect. Canít ask for either of them. From my experience, the people who pitch a fit about not being trusted are the very ones who donít deserve it.

Scraper
05-28-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Bluesteel
Fine, then quantify those sacrifices and how much it helped the company to succeed from the point of the marriage. She deserves half of that increase. Not half of the entire value. Whoís being selfish now? Thatís why pre-nups are a good idea.

Trust and respect. Canít ask for either of them. From my experience, the people who pitch a fit about not being trusted are the very ones who donít deserve it.

At least we agree on something. LOL

turfcare
05-28-2003, 01:26 PM
I also agree with Green Pastures. If I thought I needed a pre-nup, then I would not have gotten married.

drobson
05-28-2003, 01:34 PM
I don't think there is anything wrong with a pre-nup as long as it spells out that anything earned during the marriage is part of the marriage. The real purpose of the pre-nup is to make sure that the other spouse is not entitled to something that was pre-existing before the marriage.

If it's a business, then it should be documented that the value of the business at the time of the marriage is the part that will remain with the original business owner if the marriage should fail, but what was built during the marriage should belong to both equally.

If you are talking about a posession that does not increase in value, then the entire posession should belong to the original owner.

Face it, a marriage involves people, and people change. So the possibility of a marriage failing is a reality. There is no reason why people should not be able to keep what they went into the marriage with, and the courts are to blame for needed things like a pre-nup to begin with. I for one would not expect to take half of my wifes grandmothers jewelry that she had since she was a kid just because we split up. That was hers before the marriage and should remain hers.

NCSULandscaper
05-28-2003, 01:48 PM
The way i see it is even if you are happily in love at the beginning you have no idea what might happen down the road. A pre-nup is basically insurance for each individual. I would want to protect my business cause i am the only one that got it to where it is today and no one else should have it other than myself. It may sound selfish but thats how the real world has gotten today. Some women out there make you THINK yall are both in love but all she might be after is your money and business and she knows she will get it when divorce time rolls around. But on the other hand there are ALOT of good ones out there that wouldnt try to take half your business. Just beware of the golddiggers out there i guess.

fblandscape
05-28-2003, 03:30 PM
I have a good friend who has a lawn company and he got divorced about 5 years ago. He and his wife made a "trade" you could say. She got the house, and he got to keep his business. Now I guess you could call that a good thing? but when you take into consideration that she also took away his sanity... well that's another story.

cos
05-28-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by The Green Way
I have only been in business for a handful of years but I was wonderin if any of you all have gotten prenups before you got married, to protect your business? My buddy just went through a divorce and his company was alot bigger than mine, in fact he took it over from his father and now he may have to sell it cause his ex-wife is talking half! After only 5 years of marriage!!!

I don't see how the bi*ch can take half. She can only take half of what they built together in the relationship. If it was handed over to him while they were married, than it's half it it will be. There could have been ways to get around this, if they played their cards right.

This lady must be a real ****, if she is going to take what was never hers to begin with. But, if that is the law......

cos
05-28-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by turfcare
I also agree with Green Pastures. If I thought I needed a pre-nup, then I would not have gotten married.

You know how many people regret not getting a pre-nup? Divorce is a *****!!! And she usaully wins!

Green Pastures
05-28-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Scraper
Nice view, but unfortunately the real world is a whole lot different.

Not my world.

My world IS what I make of it.

It comes down to making quality decisions, based in quality guidelines.

1. I would NEVER marry a woman who did not put Jesus Christ absolutely #1 in her life, AND her decision making process.

2. I would never make a decision to marry a woman I did not unconditionally love. Richer, poorer, sickness, health, fat, skinny etc. these are some things people often forget about.

3. I would never marry a woman I did not deeply believe was the woman God wanted me joined spirit, soul and body with.

After the wedding I went to this past Saturday, I KNOW there are still good women and perfect matches out there. You just have to be patient.

Green in Idaho
05-28-2003, 05:23 PM
A prerequisite to posting on this thread should be stating how long one has been married.

8 years here and then a trip to Dallas. That is not much, but enough to advise "asset protection" whether it be with pre-nuputials or other strategies.

For every divorce there are two people who on their wedding day they did not think they would ever have to 'divide' assets. And I am sure the risk is even higher for business owners!

Compare a business owner to an employee. There is no way to divide a career is there?
" Ooh she's a successful banker with a HUGE earning potential. She has lots of clients and will always be able to find a good job...." How does one divide that in half?

Love is blind, business is business, & stuff happens even to those in bliss.

BSDeality
05-28-2003, 07:05 PM
Prenup or don't get married. Its just the way of the times now, I've seen so many people get married and then 2-3 years down they're divorced and the kids are taking the brunt of it, then the nasty arguements come and it never ends.

Green Pastures, I'm not tryin to flame, but up here religion isn't one of the cogs that turns the wheels in my town and several surrounding ones. Hell, neither is love. All people up here think about is how much $$ they can get out of the other half when they do get divorced.

It's a bitter cruel world and I think it'd be best to get a prenup if you have a well established business when you do get married. Running a business from scratch together is another story, but for those who are established, I'd have to say get the prenup

Georgiehopper
05-28-2003, 08:50 PM
I have been married 3 times and I can say that a prenup is a good idea. My ex husband took MY business and stuck me with the debt...I had to file personal bankruptcy. I had no prenup...big mistake.

My present husband did not have prenup with his ex either and he had a business for over 15 years.... and guess what? He was married to her for 14 years..,..she decided to have an affair on him and basically gave him the boot. He started and ran the business...she had no part in it...but she not only took half of it..he was forced to sell it and he paid her an additional lump sum of 90 grand...and this year he has to pay her an additional 10 grand. Yeah, they were in love too... everyone is in love in the beginning... but people change....and divorce brings out the worst in everyone.

Now I have my business...and still no prenup agreement ...and I wish I had one...because after three years of being married to him, his baggage, his ex and his kids are more than I can bear.

Prenups are good ideas...especially for those of you who are getting married a second time.

I'm a woman and I didnt win anything... I had no desire to screw over my ex's like many other women do. Instead, I got screwed.

KenH
05-28-2003, 09:31 PM
You have to look past all the gushy lovey lovey stuff. Reality is, 75% of marriages, Catholic or not, end in a divorce. It is human nature, people and situations change. You cannot predict the future, or future situations. What was yours before marriage, should be yours after...soul mate or not.

I find it ironic, those who preach "I only work with signed contracts", etc. etc., 'bend' the rules for marriage. Business is business. Marriage is a business. That is why you need a liscense.:D

drobson
05-28-2003, 09:49 PM
Good point Ken. Marriage is a business partnership and should be treated like one. But like I said earlier, it's the law that is making things worse. Instead of needing a pre-nup, the law should read that what you had before the marriage stays with the original owner. It would avoid a lot of arguments and confusion.

Green Pastures
05-28-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by BSDeality
Green Pastures, I'm not tryin to flame, but up here religion isn't one of the cogs that turns the wheels in my town and several surrounding ones. Hell, neither is love. All people up here think about is how much $$ they can get out of the other half when they do get divorced.

BSDeality,

No flames taken. :)

Religion IS a cog in every town in America, this country was founded on freedom of religion.

My point was not religion or "reality", it was that I would never marry somebody I could not trust with everything that I have and everything that I am.

If you're to young or to blinded by love to realize the difference then you have no business getting married.

I will look to my parents, my older married friends and my Pastor for advice on my choice for a wife before I ever let her know I'm thinking about marriage. Older and more experienced people have better insight to the true character of people.

Edited to say, in my world love is more of a decision than a feeling. There have to be feelings and a physical attraction but it's more of a decision.

Georgiehopper
05-29-2003, 07:04 AM
Age isnt necessarily a good teacher. I'm 45.

The first 3 or 4 years of marriage are bliss most of the time....and you trust this person with everything. Trust isnt the issue anyway.... I would trust my husband with my life...but he still puts his ex and his adult children before me. Did I know this going into the marriage? No. I knew he had baggage, but I thought once we were married things would get better. Additionally, what if he dies in some accident? I know for a fact that his ex will come after me and my business and try to have me left out in the street.

What it comes down to is as you get more relaxed in the marriage/ or other long term relationship..you become complacent and start to take each other for granted. Marriage takes work and nurturing...some people don't want to work at it.
I learned from my past 2 marriages what this work involves...my husband though, thinks that just "being married" is all thats needed. He's wrong.

Nowadays, you gotta think long and hard about marriage...it aint what it used to be.

KerryB
05-29-2003, 11:06 AM
Well Green they measure that as how much she can potentially make, put a $ value on it and then divide that.
As for the woman who had the affair, down here she would have gotten nothing. Adultery takes away all rights more or less.
I am on my second and final marriage. The first one was a big mistake and it only took me 13 yrs to find it out. lol
We are into yr 2 of my current marriage and although things could be better, they always can, I am not complaining. I love my wife very much and I could never have asked for a pre-nup.
I trust her with all that I have and if one day she decides that she doesnt love me anymore and takes everything I will still go on. Besides if that happens I think I will move to an island somewhere. Maybe find me a woman I hate about every 5 yrs or so and buy her a house. lol

Doc Pete
05-29-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Green Pastures
I look at it this way. If I feel like I have to protect myself and my interests from my future bride, she would instantly become my ex-future bride. .

OK, I'm married 25 years, and things are great. However, my friend and even my brother have run into divorce problems. But, being the type of person I am, if I needed to have "protection" before I got married, I wouldn't get married. In other words, if you go into marriage worrying "before" you're married, you doing the wrong thing.
Pete

KenH
05-29-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
But, being the type of person I am, if I needed to have "protection" before I got married, I wouldn't get married. In other words, if you go into marriage worrying "before" you're married, you doing the wrong thing.
Pete

So every time you get into your car and put on your seatbelt, you think you are going to get into an accident???;)

Georgiehopper
05-29-2003, 04:53 PM
I am one to believe that there is no such thing as a "soulmate" or the "perfect" mate.

When I was in my 20s I believed all that mess about one true love ..blah blah blah.

Not anymore...call me jaded. People are people whether you are married or not..and if the relationship turns sour for whatever reason, you better have your assets covered.

rodfather
05-29-2003, 06:48 PM
If I ever get married again (ouch), I'm gonna need a 2 or 3 inch 3-ring binder to hold all of my my biz prenups...LOL

Green in Idaho
05-29-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
, if I needed to have "protection" before I got married, I wouldn't get married.

Are we still talkin about pre-nups or are we talking about safe sex now?????
:D

Jimmy348
05-29-2003, 07:21 PM
So, uh being a newbie and all I just wanted to know if I marry the girl, who also does my lawn, but happens to own the trimmer, but I own the mower. Well, the girl next door does the fert and I wanna know lol
:cool:

Anyway, I have been told by several lawyer friends that most prenups are only as good as the lawyer she gets to dispute it.
Just my .02

Georgiehopper
05-29-2003, 09:28 PM
Thats true ....and the same goes for the settlement agreement....

Advanced Lawncare
05-29-2003, 09:44 PM
I have to agree with Green Pastures on this. If my wife decided to get a divorce (unlikely since my standards are very similar to his) and takes the business....so be it.


"Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD and has taken away" Job 1:21

Green Pastures
05-29-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Advanced Lawncare
I have to agree with Green Pastures on this. If my wife decided to get a divorce (unlikely since my standards are very similar to his) and takes the business....so be it.


"Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD and has taken away" Job 1:21

That's EXACTLY the way I look at it.

God gave me EVERYTHING I have now, I'll get more.

Doc Pete
05-30-2003, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by Advanced Lawncare
[B]I have to agree with Green Pastures on this. If my wife decided to get a divorce (unlikely since my standards are very similar to his) and takes the business....so be it.
/B]

Sorry, God never told us to be stupid. "So be it" just doesn't work for me, and "turn the other cheek" does't apply here either.

Georgiehopper
05-30-2003, 06:46 AM
You have a refreshing attitude for sure... but life is what it is and many people of deep faith end up asking God "why me?"

I say protect yourself regardless...because you just may be "put to the test"

Bigfoot
05-30-2003, 07:34 AM
I told my wife a prenup would be part of our marriage when we started getting serious about each other while dating. She said fine, as long as it is fair to both of us. We dated for 6 years before getting married with a prenup. I think God gives us the wisdom & judgment to try to protect ourselves from a possible financial disaster.

Green Pastures
05-30-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
Sorry, God never told us to be stupid. "So be it" just doesn't work for me, and "turn the other cheek" does't apply here either.

This is part of the problem in America right now. While "so be it" is not scriptural "turn the other cheek" is. If you obey the commandments, not suggestions from God, that puts the responsibility of your protection on Him. I would much rather have God looking out for me than me any day of the week.

It's a simple matter of faith in what you choose to have faith in. I don't put any faith in me, sure I'm capable of getting things done, but God is the one ultimately in charge of every single thing, everywhere. I choose to put my faith in Him, for everything, including a wife that I can trust with everything that I am and everything that I have.

God has NEVER let me down. Ever.

Advanced Lawncare
05-30-2003, 11:32 AM
Sorry, God never told us to be stupid. "So be it" just doesn't't work for me, and "turn the other cheek" does't apply here either.

No He didn't, however He does say that we are to trust in Him and not in the world. This is going to come down to core beliefs. I not going to debate theology, but I believe that turn the other cheek applies in this situation. I will not prepare for divorce since there is extremely few reasons for a biblical divorce. Just as most people do not understand Scripture, most will not understand why I think like this and that is fine. Was just giving my beliefs on preparing for divorce prior to marriage.