weed/feed effectiveness

[rixtag]

Hi all, I have one question. I put down some weednfeed for a customer ( at their insistance). I watered in and 5-6 hours later it rained hard for about three hours. I am not concerned about the effectiveness of the fertilizer but the trimec w/ dicamba. Have I lost it or is it just weaker? Is it too early to worry or will customer be after me to do it again? Thank you in advance,

PS. Guido the info you gave me on figuring equipent costs was extremely helpful and enlightning.... thank you

Rick

[Lazer]

You lost it.

Time for a re-app. Use liquid this time.

[BRL]

Get licensed for pesticides & read the label! Trimec should NOT be watered in & not be watered for at least 24 - 48 hours to work, according to the directions. Try again (Like Lazer said, liquid app. will have better results)

[MOW ED]

Even if it didn't rain granular W&F is minimally effective. I know I tried it too. Go liquid but like the man said get certified first. Good Luck.

[Samurai WeedWacker]

Liquid weed killer is the only way to go. However, I think granular fertilizer is better than liquid fertilizer. Liquid fertilizer washes away & pollutes groundwater.

Rixtag- Start reading labels, dude!! You are likely to get big trouble otherwise.

[rixtag]

I expected the spanking guys, I know that. There is no excuse. Customer was and still is very adamant about one LCO. was dependent on getting bid. I realize what the label said and I asked the salesman about that versus his instructions. "trust me, it will work better" I guess that this was a good thing with all of the rain we have had since ( about 15 more hours). as for getting certified that process is underway but not to be completed till spring. I thank you again for the info and once again keep on helping the less informed... we need the help

Rick

[BRL]

Lesson learned: Don't trust everything you hear. A salesman at your supplier may have an inventory of 30, 50, 150? different chemicals & fertilizers & blends. Did you look at any pesticide labels? A lot of info there right? You can't expect that salesman to remember how each product should be applied, so always check for yourself. Plus a lot of them just want to push the sale & tell you what you want to hear, "its gonna rain this afternoon? Yea put it down so it gets watered in, no problem." (try to find a reputable supplier if that's the case) Good luck!

[Rodg]

Like the other guys, I agree that liquid app. is the only way to go-best idea you have is to get certified! You may want to talk to this fellow who insists on the granulated about giving the liquid a shot just once, if he doesn't like the results, go back to the granulated, but I bet he'll stay with the liquid once he sees what Trimec will do when applyed the right way!

[rixtag]

Thanks all of you for constructive criticism. I don't at the moment have a source for anything other than homeowner type fert and pesticides anyway. This is definitely and exception but things are a changin' This particular customer is a medium sized area and when landscape was installed it was done el cheapo with no concern for ease of maintenance in the future. "Just grade it plant some plants and throw down some bark, there that looks good lets do it all that way", and I come along make a bid, get the bid and let the weed growing commence. Making any sense yet? NOTE: other properties do not have this problem as the were installed and maintained well before I got the contracts and in the 2 years since my work started not too much trouble with them. This one is a nightmare because of it.
I have a company that I sub out for that normally but they don't work in the area in question. The competition is such that all medium sized companies offer fert, weed control, shrub trimming, tree trimming as part of their service. I am not big enough to do all of these things myself but when I renew for 2nd or more years I just sub.
I wonder how you all can get away with just mowing, trimming blowing only? There would be no Rick's Lawn Care if I didn't offer these things. I realize that this is a little off the subject but it definitely is real where I live and I really love doing it.
Sorry for the long post but I thought a little background might help.

Rick


[Edited by rixtag on 09-22-2000 at 11:03 PM]

[TLS]

No Offense rixtag,

But, why is it that Joe Blow homeowner can go out to Home Cheapo and buy any chemical (just about) or fertilizer (they sell LESCO) that we can. Yet we neet to get licensed and certified.? He can go out and do what rixtag did or ever worse, apply a 15,000 sqft bag on a 3500 sqft lawn. (don't laugh, I have seen it done) I am not licensed, but, probably know just about all I need to, to take the test, yet I will get a $5000.00 fine if I am caught doing it without a BU # on my truck! Go figure.

All you spray guys, whats the deal with Insurance. My Ins. company asked if I spray or fert., I said no, is it a big jump in premiums?? I was thinking of getting certified and offering it to my 35 or so lawns, but if Ins. premiums are up there '$', i'll continue to sub it out.

I realize that this should have been posted in the other forum, but...

Thank you for you time...

[cantoo]

I'm from Ontario and this is my current rate for insurance. The price is $700 and I can only do $5000 worth of business. It's is alot but it is also the only deal I can get. No other company would even touch it.

[BRL]

Quick comments on Trimec first. Spraying is best, but for those that don't want to, or don't have the equipmentYou can have success with granular but you must follow the directions exactly, apply at the highest permitted rate, & definitely do the second permitted application in 10 - 14 days. Also, you can get Trimec in straight granular instead of mixed with fertilizer & I believe this has a higher active ingredient rate so it works better.

Dixie,
I agree with you about everyone being able to just buy whatever in the stores. This is dangerous stuff we're dealing with! The majority of people don't care to read directions, so they just do what ever. I've watched neighbors of customers pour leftovers from pesticeide containers into the sewers & I've had neighbors of my customers spray Round Up (instead of a selective)on their lawn in the wind and kill sections of my customers lawns! My state requires licensed applicators to carry seperate pesticide liabilty insurance & they check it, so probably others have that requirement too . Its just another rider on the policy & I believe mine is a little over $200.00 per year. So that has to be factored into the pricing (along with the licensing fees etc.) It is profitable after all of that.

[John DiMartino]

The granular weed-n-feed products are a big compromise,in order to get the fertilizer to release,it needs to be watered in,but the tri-mec needs to stay on the leaf,there is no way to do do both.I have found that the trimec levels are on the low side and the fertilizer is not as good either.Definetely spray the weeds with liquid,and granular time release fertilize when needed.The weed needs to absorb the tri-mec ,its a folular application,the only way to ensure that is spray and let it dry to the touch before any mowing etc...

[rixtag]

Thanks to all of you for your help.
I do understand the potential for BIG BIG trouble as far as the over-application of these things and as I explained this is an exception. I realize that I have opened up a can of worms but as I continue to try to grow my business I am running into this problem more and more. I do understand that Mr. home owner can buy alot of potentially dangerous chemicals and do some serious damage both to the area around his yard and to the environment, but that is why we are required to get licensed and have insurance... we can potentially do 10 or 20x the amount of damage and we are responsible business owners--- it's the right thing to do. I have not looked intently for a good chemical supplier because I have not needed to. I will if things continue to grow the way they have. The Home Cheapo ( I love that) does not carry LESCO ( here in UT) but I understand that things need to be the way that they are. I have one more question and I shouldn't be in trouble LOL for this one. As my pesticide training is not started yet, I would like to get an idea what to expect, what sort of things are taught? Pretty general question I know, but I don't know anyone personally that has done it. Thanks in advance

Rick

[eslawns]

In VA you have 2 types of certification. First is a Certified Applicator, which is a "higher" level of cert. The other is a Registered Technician (who can't work alnoe). In order to get the CA level you MUST work under a CA as a RT for a minimum of a year. I agree that there needs to be an OJT period so you can put "classroom" lessons to work in the real world, but I can't give someone a year to do this. Any legit way around this 1 year thing? I'm losing a fortune by not being able to apply pesticides.

[jaclawn]

Tommy- It is tough to find the "right" insurance carrier. You will need a pesticide endoresment, and some will not offer it, some will offer it at an outrageous price, and a select few "good" companies will offer it at resonable rates. Be upfront with your sales agent about what you are going to be doing.

[dhicks]

I'm currently enrolled in a Pesticide Management Class at Montgomery College, Germantown, MD.

The criteria established to obtain a Maryland pesticide applicators license required that you have an agi degree, or be an entomologist, or work for a certified pesticide applicator for a year. These were not an option for me.

I called the Maryland Dept. of Agriculture (MDA), and was informed that I don't need a degree in agriculture, and I don't need to work for a certified applicator for one year.

Basically, the MDA said that I could take college courses to sit for the State examination. I'm taking Pesticide Use and Safety, 3 Credit Hours, and Turf Management which is a 5 Credit Hour Course.

Once I complete these two courses I can apply for my license and treat turf grass. If I decide to treat ornamentals, that's another 3 Hour Class. Going back to school was very hard on me considering two jobs, family, dogs, and my lifestyle. However, I think that I will stay in college for awhile as I am having fun and meeting potential customers oops I mean friends.

So, despite what the law says, check with your county or state department of agriculture to see if you can just take a few college courses.