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pferboy
06-11-2003, 09:43 PM
this is the first pond i have done. it has taken me a couple weeks to build and still needs some work. all of the rock was donated so that is why it took so long to complete. still waiting on a privacy fence aroun the back, more plants and pond plants and of coarse fish.

pferboy
06-11-2003, 09:45 PM
2

pferboy
06-11-2003, 09:48 PM
3

pferboy
06-11-2003, 09:50 PM
4

pferboy
06-11-2003, 09:52 PM
5

GreaterMilwLawnscape
06-12-2003, 11:13 PM
LOOKS AWESOME GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!

bushwoods1
06-16-2003, 04:24 PM
Nice job, Looks great :)

The Lawn Boy Pro
06-17-2003, 09:24 AM
Is that an Aquascape Biofalls I see there?

Looks GREAT by the way!!!!:D

Green in Idaho
06-23-2003, 12:04 AM
Well I am not one to blow smoke up somebady's arse, so I'll tell ya like I see it.

It doesn't look natural!
It looks like every other out-of-place pond with a 3'ft stack of rocks to make a falls.
The liner is showing.
The end of the biofalls is showing.
The rocks do not blend naturally.
The differen rocks do not have similar geologic character.
Apparently there's not much bottom rock or content like most others.

You have completed the proverbial "just like every other back yard pond" that is out of place. And Aquascape is quiet guilty of promoting UNnatural water features. They ought to feel formal or natural-- not "odd."

And being that I like to offer solutions instead of only constructive critizism----- If someone came to me to ask about a pond in that location. I would say, "Great! It's nice right off the patio and all. Let's do a formal pool with a water fountain integrated with the red brick theme that is already there. It SHOULD look like it was a planned part of the house or the yard. OR just put in a pond and a fountain."

A 3' waterfall sticking up out of the FLAT yard looks out of place. If they really wanted a 3' waterfall, a HUGE backdrop berm ought to go along with it and lots of background and surrounding plants.

Bottom line is whatever the customer wants though, right?

And I'm sure they wanted that style, just like the others do. Due to cost and not knowing the alternative choices.... "No, I'm sorry I don't put in that style just because it's cheaper, -it looks odd."

Yes, you have done a good job following the 20 steps fo Aquascape and it could be a poster project for them. But IMO the style and feel of it are lacking.

Does it make you feel like you are sitting next to a stream when you sit there? Or do you feel like you are sitting next to a pile of rocks with water mysterieously appearing and dropping down to a bucket?

Phishook
06-23-2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Green in Idaho



And Aquascape is quiet guilty of promoting UNnatural water features. They ought to feel formal or natural-- not "odd."


Yes, you have done a good job following the 20 steps fo Aquascape and it could be a poster project for them. But IMO the style and feel of it are lacking.




??? I agree with most all your coments except these.???
You must not be familiar with Aquascape Designs. They do promote natural looking ponds. After all, they want them to look awsome so they sell more products.

And yes, it is landscaped with a background to hide the undesirable.

Green in Idaho
06-23-2003, 01:13 PM
I get Aquascape's marketing material on a regular basis. I understand their 'simple 20 steps' and have seen several end results from the systems.

The look and feel does not come from the system but the installer. The installer has to have "the eye" to see what a natural water feature looks like. And many don't have 'it'. It's just like an art. Some people the touch and the eye to make nice art, but if they tell me their 20 steps to make the art, mine is going to look much worse than theirs.

As far as their marketing material and example projects I have seen photos of the same 'problems' in their material. A good example is promoting flagstones all the way around the perimeter and only one or two stones wide (much like above). I have never seen such a pond in a natural setting. Yes, they are popular and people accept them. But natural??? Instead, some geographic native rocks mixed with plantings, soil, and grass look natural around a pond.

While many Aquascape examples are wonderful, due to the style and incurring the necessary costs, the basic ones leave something to be desired.

Here #2 & #8 are what I'm talking about:
http://www.aquascapedesigns.com/inspiration/ig/images/index.php?gal=ponds

here #2 and others:
http://www.aquascapedesigns.com/inspiration/ig/images/index.php?gal=streams

And #2, #16,
http://www.aquascapedesigns.com/inspiration/ig/images/index.php?gal=waterfalls

Yes, 'natural' water features are VERY tough to do. And I'm not saying I am the expert at doing them. I'm just writing my impression when I see such projects.
:( ;)

Phishook
06-23-2003, 03:41 PM
Becarefull with your examples, some of those are almost as natural as a back yard pond can be.

But the flagstone boarders do have to go. But then again, it is the customers money, and the designers ideas that produce the end result, not Aquascape.

Green in Idaho
06-23-2003, 05:50 PM
Yes the designers produce the end result.

Aquascape only provides the product. BUt when they show examples of 3'piles of rocks, other people become accustomed to it and accept.

I do like the Aquascape "concept" and products. But there are some examples of "odd" work that filter into their pool of examples. pardon the pun.

:D

Green in Idaho
06-23-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Green in Idaho
Yes the designers produce the end result.

Aquascape only provides the product. BUt when they show examples of 3'piles of rocks, other people become accustomed to it and accept them.

I do like the Aquascape "concept" and products. But there are some examples of "odd" work that filter into their pool of examples and marketin material. pardon the pun.

:D

pferboy
06-24-2003, 07:43 PM
i appreciate the honesty i will remember what you wrote for the next one i build if i do. many problems contrubuited to the work. first off my lack of knowledge building one.
the pond was build for my mothers group home that she runs. they got a sum of money from a co workers death and i did the pond for free. they only had $700 to buy everything i needed. all the rock was donated, so i did not have a choice on that.
there were other problems but i am not going to put blame the turn out of the pond on those.

Green in Idaho
06-25-2003, 12:00 AM
I did notice the memorial plaque. And it certainly looks like a good installation. I guess your Mom will let you know, but otherwise be sure to check back in a month or so for water quality and such. Maybe you could "adopt" that pond for maintenance to learn the water/plant chemistry etc. (if need be).

I like to surf the Internet for pictures of waterfalls, and streams. And get a good mental picture of them. Even bookmark some to the point, "that is one I can do in the future" and try to reproduce it. Kinda like using a model to paint a portrait. But mostly it's getting the customer to pony up enough money to pay for a enough material to make it good.

I just saw a cool water feature on HGTV. A huge potting vase sat upright and it poured over the top down into a pool of peblles. The pebbles were in a pool with a pump at the bottom to pump back into the pot. Would be a good unique feature for someone on a budget.

Green in Idaho
06-25-2003, 12:12 AM
As I look at it more, and with the additional information, in the same situation here is what I would do.

Build a only a pond without the falls. Use the flagstone from the falls to complete the rock area so that the small rock would not be used at ground level. Patio straight to flagstone and then to the turf. Creeping tyme or other groundcover in between some of the cracks. Within the flagstones have 4 planter areas to concentrate large shrubs and flora. In the pond build a bog shelf for some tall water plants to give it more height.

Then the small rock goes inside to made the bottom. Since people are that close, there needs to be something for them to see on the bottom instead of black. I would make the edges a little less sloped and with a shelf to hold the small pebble and a few cobble rocks right next to the flagstone. The look right along the waterline is important.

Then instead of a falls an nice umbrella fountain, or a something for the sound effect... And to be really cool, I would 'try' to paint the first 10" of the patio to match the flagstones, to blend the two surfaces....

just dreamin..... later.

Floridalandcare
06-25-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Green in Idaho
Well I am not one to blow smoke up somebady's arse, so I'll tell ya like I see it.

It doesn't look natural!
It looks like every other out-of-place pond with a 3'ft stack of rocks to make a falls.
The liner is showing.
The end of the biofalls is showing.
The rocks do not blend naturally.
The differen rocks do not have similar geologic character.
Apparently there's not much bottom rock or content like most others.

You have completed the proverbial "just like every other back yard pond" that is out of place. And Aquascape is quiet guilty of promoting UNnatural water features. They ought to feel formal or natural-- not "odd."

And being that I like to offer solutions instead of only constructive critizism----- If someone came to me to ask about a pond in that location. I would say, "Great! It's nice right off the patio and all. Let's do a formal pool with a water fountain integrated with the red brick theme that is already there. It SHOULD look like it was a planned part of the house or the yard. OR just put in a pond and a fountain."

A 3' waterfall sticking up out of the FLAT yard looks out of place. If they really wanted a 3' waterfall, a HUGE backdrop berm ought to go along with it and lots of background and surrounding plants.

Bottom line is whatever the customer wants though, right?

And I'm sure they wanted that style, just like the others do. Due to cost and not knowing the alternative choices.... "No, I'm sorry I don't put in that style just because it's cheaper, -it looks odd."

Yes, you have done a good job following the 20 steps fo Aquascape and it could be a poster project for them. But IMO the style and feel of it are lacking.

Does it make you feel like you are sitting next to a stream when you sit there? Or do you feel like you are sitting next to a pile of rocks with water mysterieously appearing and dropping down to a bucket? We all appreciate the honesty , But like the captionsreads " My first waterfall" To the builder nI give props it looks good ,obiviously he hasnt been doing this for ten years . Lets see you install a synthetic putting green and let me riddle holes all in your work about unaturle setting when have you ever seen a natural waterfall in someones yard granted there are people out there that live on a natural setting ,but to make one that looks 100% realistic your either crazy of Walt Disney ,Lets see some Pics of your natural waterscapes.

Floridalandcare
06-25-2003, 12:27 AM
And sorry about the misspellings ,my spell check wasnt on.

Phishook
06-25-2003, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Floridalandcare
Lets see you install a synthetic putting green


Ahh the next big thing. Hey have you ever installed one? I take it you have.

Sorry for the topic change, but fill us in. Send me a private message, or start a thread about them if you wish. I'm verry intrested in offering them along with the whole watergarden thing. The ones I've mentioned it to thought it sounded good, "a putting green with a water hazard and sand trap coming to a back yard near you!"

GLAN
07-21-2003, 12:29 AM
You did a great job.

Working with that open space is not easy to naturalize. Addition of surrounding plant material will make a world of difference, even with the waterfall where it is. The waterfall added dimension.

Mykster
07-21-2003, 03:42 AM
I also think you did a good job. If that's your first one the ones you do in the future will only get better.

stxkyboy
07-22-2003, 12:14 AM
Phishook maybe the reason ur defending this guys waterfall is that urs looks just as crappy. I looked at ur previous posts and ur waterfall fit everything green in idaho described..............it looks totally unnatural and out of place.

mexiking
02-27-2004, 01:26 AM
Yikes
it looks so UnNATURAL
make a HUGE BERM around there

bcx400
02-27-2004, 07:14 AM
anyone who builds a pond has to start somewhere. Considering this is your first, it looks good, and I am sure you learned a lot.

I have to agree with Idaho though, it looks like a pile of rocks dumped on the lawn. The Aquascapes look fits perfectly into suburbia, with its cookie-cutter homes.

jajwrigh
03-06-2004, 09:30 PM
I think it looks good. I think people forget that it takes time to master a new skill and we are expected to be prefect in eveything we do. Keep up the good, quality work!

Green Gopher
03-10-2004, 03:05 PM
Pferboy,

It looks nice for what it is, and the price you had to work with. The fact is, a natural pond is expensive to build. Use caution when building the Aqua-scape type ponds ( I know many people here swear by them) Most times they don't last long, for a host of reasons and end up getting replaced in a year or two. Good luck with future installs.

Green in Idaho: Good to see you posting again.

Stxkyboy: Ur was an ancient city in southern Iraq, not a word in the English language. I think the word you want is "Your"!!

Jeremy

bcx400
03-10-2004, 06:54 PM
Green Gopher- I would be interested in hearing your host of reasons why Aquascape ponds end up getting replaced in a year or two.

Thanks!

hole in one lco
03-10-2004, 08:56 PM
It looks to shallow to have fish, it needs to be deep enough to have a air poked in the winter or your fish will die heater helps.

If you dig in levels and on a slit slant you can stack your stones to the top.


___ ____
\__ ___/
\__ ___/
\_____/

hole in one lco
03-10-2004, 09:06 PM
heres anther sh%t drawing the one above didn't work

Green Gopher
03-11-2004, 11:03 AM
I don't want offend anyone who is a die hard aquascape user, so these are my impressions from my experience in my area.

Disclaimer out of the way, the number one problem is:

SIZE, These ponds are usually to small and the owners "out grow" them quickly. Also the more shallow a pond is and lesser the water volume the more maintenance. which leads to #2.

MAINTENANCE, all pond require work. The amount of work depends on the quality of materials you use. Aquascapes ponds are much lower maintenance then those preform ponds, but after the novelty wears off the home owner stops. I can't tell you how many ponds I have been called out to "diagnose" a problem and you can't see the bottom of the pond because the water is green.

EXPERIENCE, In my area three years ago the state fair and another large county fair were hit hard by the Aquascape marketing team. There was about three weeks that summer of daily "learn to build a pond in a day" classes. The next year every time I turned around there was a new ad for a water feature "contractor". I don't think it is a bad idea to sit through one of these classes as a start, but to think you will know all there is to know about responsible pond installation in a one day class is very misinformed. As green in Idaho stated it is an art, but also there is a great deal of science & engineering involved.

AQUASCAPE, you need to look at who your experts are. Aquascape has done a great job of marketing an inexpensive all in one kit. How many of you have gotten what looks like a pond magazine in the mail and found a 16 page ad for Aquascapes. with 20 easy steps, done in a weekend. Their day classes are 80% sales and 20% how to. They expect that by putting on a "free" class that each person there will install at least one pond (i'm guessing here) at an average of $1200 each. If you buy into the side pitch that once you leave the class you can go out and have a great part time business building ponds on the weekend, then friends the hook is set. Just look at their web-site at completed projects and more than half are to shallow, placed in bad if not the worst possible locations, and rarely look natural.

I don't want to come across as a know it all, because i'm not. I do feel I am responsible when I install water features and have done years of research before trying to sell a product to any customers. I went to who I felt the experts were, and started learning from them. I would suggest going to your local Koi fish clubs and asking pond questions. These people are not out to sell you anything, and this is their hobby not their job so they will talk for hours. Then ask to see some of the oldest ponds. I have see tons of 15- 20 year old ponds built by these guys. every one clean and healthy.

If someone from Aquascapes can show me a 20 year old Aquascapes pond with fish that older than two years and maintained by a customer. Then I may start to change my mind about their product. Sorry this post is so long I hope it helps someone a little.

Jeremy

kandklandscape
06-10-2004, 10:23 PM
I think it looks very good my friend. it is your first system. when you get to your 20th ADI pond, you will look at this one, and tell them you want to give them there money back because you can do better! keep up the good work my friend!

aquamtic
06-17-2004, 03:48 PM
Nice! But I dont know about the cross unless of course that is where they will bury there first dead fish

earthtool
06-18-2004, 02:21 AM
Aquamtic,
You meant to say "their", if I am not mistaken.


Pond building is an art.........do more research on design.

Victor
06-18-2004, 09:29 AM
Not to offend you but putting rocks on the bottom of a fish pond might be aesthetically pleasing, but it is a BAD, BAD idea. When the pond building boom hit, it was the the popular thing to do, but since then most experts agree that it is not a good practice. Putting rocks on the bottom of a water garden (no fish) is fine though.

When you have a fish pond with rocks all over the bottom, the gaps and crevices between the rocks wind up harboring everything from fish feces to rotting leaves, or anything else for that matter that falls into the pond. As this material breaks down, it provides a breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria (bad bacteria). This is the kind of bacteria that makes your pond smell like a swamp if it's present in high enough quantities. It also pollutes your water. The only way to control it's build-up in a rock-bottom pond is to use a "muck mop," or other vacuuming device.

Another problem with your rock bottom idea is the fact that rock bottom ponds greatly hinder bottom drain performance. In an effort to reduce pond maintenance, almost all fish ponds should have at least one bottom drain (one bottom drain per 10 sq feet of bottom area). A bottom drain system is not a mandatory thing, but the maintenance requirements in a drainless pond increase dramatically.

The bottom of the pond should be smooth as possible and shaped like a bowl that slopes toward the bottom drain. This way debris at the edges of the pond bottom ends up close enough to a drain to be drawn in and sent to the filtration system (where it will later be removed from being in contact with the pond's water).

When you build a pond for customers, you should design your ponds so that the maintenance is as easy as possible for them. The easier the maintenance, the better the chance their fish will stay healthy and their water quality will remain high.

There really is a lot more to pond building than what can be taught in a build a pond in a day class. There are so many things that go into building a viable, well designed fish pond that won't require unreasonable amounts of maintenance that it's daunting at times.

I think he did a great job for a first pond. Ponds don't have to be 100% formal, or 100% informal. Most ponds are a mix in between. To say that any pond that isn't 100% either way is inferior in quality is showing ignorance.

Vic

localguy
06-18-2004, 10:34 PM
your pond/water garden/fish pond/water pond/water feature/water fall looks great for a DIY - always think in the future when constructing a water feature "what is it going to be?" choose from the list above and design accordingly.

the liner edges need work and the falls is OK - it takes talent and a keen eye for detail from Mother nature to say what makes a waterfall/stream and garden look good.