Just let me take care of it all

[deere ZTR]

Any thoughts on this would be great!! So don't hold back.

I had a lady contact me the other day her husband bought patio bricks to put in a patio and then decided he did not have the time so she emails me wanting me to give her a bid to install it she says its 17'x17' and she would get all of the materials. It also says she would like it on a rock and sand base. I'm not hot on the rock idea but the sand it a given but of course everyone knows the finer the sand the better. I'm going to try to talk her into just letting me use the bricks she has and I'll take care of the rest. But any thoughts on how to charge and or any good ways to approach the situation would be helpful

[deere ZTR]

come on people need to hear those opinions!!:alien:

[Rex Mann]

You can charge T&M, time and materials, but the homeowner may not be hip to that.

As for using the rock..do it. Doesn't matter if your building it in Maine or Arizona it needs a solid base. Geographic location does dictate how many inches of base used.

The sand should actually be coarse. It's called concrete sand or general building sand. You definitely want to stay away from mason sand. It has to many fines.

If you do use the base and sand it should take you, working alone, 4-days to do the whole thing. 1 ton of sand will cover approximately 125 SF. 1 ton of base material will cover approximately 50 square feet. You'll also need sand to sweep into the joints, a couple hundred pounds. Then some type of edge restraint. Concrete mixed on site is the least expensive, but most labor intensive. The plastic of aluminum edge used with spike is the most expensive, but goes in faster.

Good luck,

Rex Mann

[deere ZTR]

Rex Man I was referring to using the fine sand to fill in the cracks after it was all done to sweep in and general purpose sand for the base. The rock as a base isn't so much a problem yes it makes a nice base but in for this particular case Its not all that important. What does every one think would be a fair price to charge just for my time to do it not having to supply or excavate or anything just assemble???

[paul]

I think you need to take a ICPI class! This job is a failure before it even starts. Listen to Rex......................

[deere ZTR]

Thanks for the help Paul could have just saved your self some typing and shut up.

[paul]

Your comment shows your professionalism, look back at a few of my posts going back to the beginning of LS. A search on Hardscaping/ Paving will show lots of post on how to do the job right.

Next the class (ICPI) will show that you don't use fine sand to sweep in to the joints, It won't lock the pavers.

[DLCS]

Originally posted by deere ZTR
I had a lady contact me the other day her husband bought patio bricks to put in a patio and then decided he did not have the time so she emails me wanting me to give her a bid to install it she says its 17'x17' and she would get all of the materials.

How much you want to bet that her husband bought the blocks and realized that the job will not be as easy as it seemed. Next, sounds like the lady will be the type who thinks she know it all and will be a pita. She wants to try and save money by buying the materials herself. I would pass on that one without blinking a eye.

[deere ZTR]

DlCS I could not agree more the thing is that she is some what a friend of the family and knows a lot of other friends of the family so It would look bad to turn it down completely and it would look bad to bid it sky high. Believe me I would rather do it all my self and take care of it from start to finish but I don't know what to do because of the complexity of the situation.

[commercial lawn]

she will probably want to talk to you the whole time you are trying to work.give her a price per hour and estimate about how long it will take u to do the job. also go to the internet for info on installing pavers.you will be able to find a lot of important info on laying the proper foundation

[deere ZTR]

Thanks for the constructive thoughts guys keep them comin!!!

[Henry]

Figure out what you would chagre if doing everything and subtract the cost of materials. If he's already excavated the area, then subtract whatever time it would have taken you to excavate. You still have the most time consuming part of the job, the base.

I wouldn't worry about looking bad for turning it down. I would worry about looking stupid for not doing it right.

[BRL]

"I would worry about looking stupid for not doing it right."

And for being rude to one of the most respected members of our on line community here, and one of the most knowledgable people of this type of work. Paul, I hope that you can ignore this & will continue to share your valuble insights with us. Same to you Rex Mann.

I have dealt with the situation at hand successfully a few times, and could probably give some good advice that would certainly help to deal with it. However, with that attitude, I think I will take the advice given by the thread starter, and I will save myself the time of typing it.

[deere ZTR]

BRl you are right what a wealth of knowledge you guys have in stating nothing more than that the project will be a failure. Rex gave useful advice and I took all of that in and I thank him for that. However I was not looking for advise on the construction I have that covered. I have the experience and general know how coupled with common since and research to handle that. I was looking for some answers on how to handle the more personal problems of the job.

[DLCS]

Originally posted by deere ZTR
BRl you are right what a wealth of knowledge you guys have in stating nothing more than that the project will be a failure. Rex gave useful advice and I took all of that in and I thank him for that. However I was not looking for advise on the construction I have that covered. I have the experience and general know how coupled with common since and research to handle that. I was looking for some answers on how to handle the more personal problems of the job.


Well, why didn't you state all the facts first. You never said these people are family friends in your original post. I still stick with my opinion in my first response. I don't like doing business with family friends and neighbors since most think they are entitled to a good deal. No matter what the price they want it cheaper. I have just found that situations like that create problems. Been there done that.

[kris]

Originally posted by deere ZTR
BRl I have the experience and general know how coupled with common since and research to handle that.

Oh man...biting my tongue ...naw I won't ...I could always use another enemy in the off topic forum ....

It's obvious you don't have a clue on how to do this job and should pass.

[deere ZTR]

You know as some one once said you never sound stupid until you voice your worthless opinion.

[kris]

LOL ..all right, the fish takes the bait. Stop in the off topic some time.

Since your profile says your 20 years old and Ive been laying stone for more years then that, I'll stick to listening to guys like Paul and others whom have taught me that you can always learn a new trick or two.

[Lanelle]

Worthless opinion??? You've been a member here less than a month and you say that to guys who lay thousands of square feet of pavers every year? I guess I know who has opened their mouth here. Having a compacted base of 3/4"- of a proper depth is the prudent thing to do unless you want this friend to bad mouth you in a couple of years.

[paul]

You think it will last a couple of years?????? optimistic arn't we:)

[deere ZTR]

Look my age has nothing to do with this and I do not need to continue this on any further with responces like this. I'm well aware that you can always learn something new even when your 100 and I know all about the base and the edges and the laying of the block and the blah blah blah this isnt my first rodeo either but like I said I do not claim to know everything. I'll be damned if I can figure out why the seasoned vets always think the young guy is a complete moron because that is not always the case though it is some times. Long story short anybody who ever wants to leave some constructive thoughts go ahead and I will respond the people who judge their response purily on age can continue to post but I will not be dropping to that level to respond any longer and just for you seasoned I'm better than every other person in the world vets I dont claim to be the pest paver layer in the world or even in my area thats why I desire to learn however I'm sure their are several things that I could compete with you on and run circles around you. Here is a little history of the people that I've worked around My dad is a master electrician my grandpa master carpenter my uncle master wood worker and several other very close friends who are top of the line in the scaping buisness I try to learn everything I can

[BRL]

"stating nothing more than that the project will be a failure. Rex gave useful advice and I took all of that in and I thank him for that. However I was not looking for advise on the construction I have that covered. I have the experience and general know how coupled with common since and research to handle that. I was looking for some answers on how to handle the more personal problems of the job."

Then:

"You know as some one once said you never sound stupid until you voice your worthless opinion."

Ummm... You should really take your own advice. You are the one who posted the incorrect methods of constructing this job, not the others here. So if you have that covered, why would you post how to do the job incorrectly, then get upset with others who told you about it? That is why it was posted that the job will be a failure. Like I said, your bad attitude resulted in my not posting help with the "more personal problems of the job", that I'm sure may have helped you. Maybe someone else will be able to. Good luck with the job.

[AztlanLC]

If you really know how to do this type of jobs then you should really know how much you have to charge, it's not difficult for the pros to spot a person who doesn't have an idea of what they're doing.

I would prepare a base of 4" item 4 then 2" stone dust (I really like stone dust, but there's a lot of people who uses sand), then the pavers and sweep joint sand, the rest you alredy know I assume, I price my patios around $15-$20 per sqf.

If they have the materials and is a family friend I would charge $1 per sqf. but that's how stupid I'm

[deere ZTR]

Thanks for the good advice! Yes normaly I would know what to charge but this thing had so many abnormal points to it since they want to take care of the materials and they are kind of family friends its hard for me to charge people like that.

Also after some thinking and research I was doing your method for construction is better than the general type used by everyone around here I think I'm going to give it a whirl!!

THANKS!!

[Lanelle]

Age has nothing to do with it. That is purely your own assumption. Posting that a patio does not need a base will red-flag you every time with the pros here. By the way, are these interlocking concrete pavers or clay pavers? If clay pavers, are there spacer bars on them? You didn't mention what type of compactor you're going to run over them--you are going to make some passes with a compactor, right?

[deere ZTR]

The only reason I brought up age is because some one else already had. Yes I'm going to compact with a plate compactor and no I didnt say I was not going to put down a base that would be like pouring a foundation with no footings. As for what kind of blocks I dont know I havnt spoke with her in person yet. After reading back on what I initialy wrote in this thread I must have been half out of it because I did kind of give the wrong impression of a few things.

[earthtool]

If you have all these "masters of the trades" surrounding you, then why haven't you questioned them about how to figure your hourly rate or even sq. ft. rate. For that fact if you are the scaper that you say you are,..... you should already know these figures. Just how much do you charge per hour for your normal grass cutting day? You know......equipment cost.... fuel ....wages ....insurance .... etc.? Give us all a clue you have that info about daily business.

[deere ZTR]

I converse with a lot of people before I take on any type of job that has a different spin on it. Just so you know "master" is not just a name I gave them they have all earned the title they have all done the apprentiship put there time in taken the test and are all very very meticulous about their work which is a good thing.
aparently know one takes the time to read or understand the reason for the priceing question is because they want to furnish the materials and are some what a friend of the family. Also I DO NOT CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING I AM STILL TRYING TO LEARN THAT IS WHY I COME HERE!!!

I currently do not mow but did a couple years ago and did very very well at and am looking to get back into it for next year. I'm currently looking for the best commercial ZTR with a sixty inch deck probably a diesel or fuel injected, have a Snapper dealer two blocks away but not to hot on that idea other than that I've got Deere and exmark and I believe hustler close.

[paul]

If it's a family friend, then do it for free, they are buying all the material, let them rent the equipment you need to do the job. Figure this as a learning experience.

We don't do work for family and charge them labor(heck it's hard enough to do work at my house) anything you would charge for labor they seem to think you make a killing on.

Lastly, when you post a new thread explain to us "old timers here what your real problem is, At this point I don't even know if your doing pavers or patio block, if this was a customer (not a friend) there is no way I could give you a good price to work with. I don't know if the site is level or sloped, access to it is limited or not, or what type of equipment you have to do the work.

One last thing, the only reason I said that it would fail is because the way you wanted to install it. "I'm not hot on the rock idea but the sand it a given but of course everyone knows the finer the sand the better. I've taught many the proper installation methods, and have run into many that thought they know everything about installing pavers, but a class like ICPI teaches would give you more information in the 2 days it takes to complete than a months work with the material with out help.

[yard anvil]

Pual,
What's an ICPI class?
New Guy

[BRL]

http://www.icpi.org/

You can take classes sponsored by them to become certified by them as proficient in doing that type of work. They also hold more beginner type classes without the certification testing. They probably have a schedule listed on the site somewhere, or check with your local suppliers, as they should know when & where any close events are. Good luck.

[yard anvil]

Thanks BRL

[landscapingpoolguy]

hey guys ,

i use a gravel base and tamp, the a stone dust layer tamped and leveled then the blocks, then jointing sand and more tamping. sometimes i use the plastic edging but usually i use some mixed concrete with a small burm troweled along the sides of the stones. its a mortar mix really 3$ a bag for a 80 lbs bag. 17x 17 is not a large patio and just remember that while she is a friend of the family, freinds usually help each other out? so how is she helping you out if she is goin to nickle and dime you? If she was a good friend shed ask for a price and trust yur price as the best. When working for family or freinds and giving them that rate yur not making the same money that you should be with someone else. id tell her to wait till the busy season slows doen to get the really good price otherwise youd have to charge her normal rates.heres a pic of teh last job i did for a family freind. what would you charge normally for this?

[landscapingpoolguy]

thats two rock gardens with a small 50 gal pond (no fish) a waterfall 40 foot holland style paver walkway that tapers from 5'wide to 4 foot wide, ky bg sod front yard, and landscape lighting. garden made of 4 yards of topsoil a jap maple, bonsi juniper, 8 red astilbe, a hinoki, 10 regular ground junipers and some yello sages, 2 yds red mulch, and two palletes of moss rock.i think thats everyting