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View Full Version : Is a 48" w/b overkill on some residential lawns?


CoachLinz
06-18-2003, 11:23 PM
The largest lot I cut is 1/3 of an acre. I don't plan on doing anything bigger as I have enough with what I have already and the neighborhoods I cut in are all 1/4 t o1/3 acre lots. I do this part time so I plan to stick to these neighborhoods as long as I have steady work from them like I have so far. Anyway, the 48" Bobcat I have just seems to be so big it is almost inefficient to use it. I end up having to push mow at least part of all but a few jobs and the maneuvering gets real tricky with the 48" because the lawns are small. Would I be better off (and more efficient) by selling the 48" and running a 32" or 36" instead? Those would be small enough that I might not have to push mow anything. I can't afford to keep the 48" and buy a 36". It has to be one or the other. The trim mower I use is a 22".

What do you guys think/recommend?

lawnkid
06-18-2003, 11:36 PM
I sit a belt or hydro? Assuming it's a belt, a 48" hydro would be a nice unoit for lawns tha size. If you do not already have a hydor, I would look into one, they maneuver a lot better than belts.

BSDeality
06-18-2003, 11:36 PM
sounds like a either a 32 or 36 would be a better choice for you. got any gated areas? measure them and see what'll be the best choice.

Toroguy
06-18-2003, 11:41 PM
I have some yards that have small living room size sections that I need to twirl around in with my 48". I found that most are still quicker with the 48. Gates are a problem and replaced with no gate lawns when needed.

Terrain is also a factor, not scalping undulating berms, or large roots can be a task.

If the mower is paid for, focus on your hourly productivity. Try timing yourself on the same lot with different mowers on different weeks?

CoachLinz
06-18-2003, 11:52 PM
It is a belt drive not a hydro. Only a few have gates - 1 I can fit the 48 through, the rest are just big enough for a 36 if I had one so right now i have to pull out the 22" push mower.

Let's put it this way - I have at least 1 lawn that I can do the back yard (no gate but lots of landscaping) in the same time with a push mower as I can with the 48 because of the maneuvering necessary. Haven't tried that experiment on any others, but I have a few more that I bet will be the same way. I'll lose a little bit on the front lawn, but gain a lot on the back. I like the way this 48 cuts, but I think I'll be quicker with a 36" - maybe......

As far as scalping, etc goes - the only lawn have those issues with is my own. My front lawn is just a pain in the ..... and then my gate is only 36" for the back lawn.....

Toroguy
06-19-2003, 12:06 AM
I also considered a 36 at the start of this season to do the five or so lawns with gates. My laziness battled my tight fisted grip on cash and the tight grip on the cash won.

I'll mention another idea. A old forum member called twotoros use to mow with two 21" mowers at the same time? I recently picked up a freebie 21" and once I get off my lazy hiney and install a blade I plan to give it a trial run? So maybe in 2005?

geogunn
06-19-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by lawnkid
I sit a belt or hydro? Assuming it's a belt, a 48" hydro would be a nice unoit for lawns tha size. If you do not already have a hydor, I would look into one, they maneuver a lot better than belts.

I don't believe this is an issue of hydro advantage over belt drive.

the issue is size of the yards and back yard gates.

coachlinz--I gotta ask why you have to use a push mower. I use a 48 on every cut I make regardless of size and I do very well with it. I only use a trimmer to make up the places that the 48 can't fit.

based on your discussion, I think you need to look at a 36".

GEO

FrankenScagMachines
06-19-2003, 10:04 AM
If it's a belt drive, get a hydro of the same size and you will not have to use the 21" at all. But if you are wanting ONE mower to do it ALL including in gates get a 32" hydro (eXmark Viking is nice :) )

geogunn
06-19-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by FrankenScagMachines
If it's a belt drive, get a hydro of the same size and you will not have to use the 21" at all.

oh BS BHB! I'll put my belt drive any where you can put a hydro except I aint backin' up any hills in reverse.

and I'd like to see you get that 48 hydro through a 36 in. gate.:eek:

GEO

CoachLinz
06-19-2003, 10:22 AM
geogunn-
I have to use a push mower on several properties due to gates and several places having too much landscaping around. In several of those cases there is not 48" between things, so obviously the 48" mower won't work - like between gardens, trees, large rocks, etc. - but it is too much area to simply trim. I do have a few where I just trim a little more and never touch the push mower.

geogunn
06-19-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by CoachLinz
geogunn-
I have to use a push mower on several properties due to gates and several places having too much landscaping around.

coach--I understand the gate problem and the 36 would help you there.

but for me, I don't have a single property that I am not 100% able to cut with the 48 and then simply trim between the tight spaces. all yards have double gates. I suppose it all depends on the market you are in. demo a 36" and check it out!:)

GEO

madmow
06-19-2003, 10:48 AM
Most of my lawns are a 1/2 acre. I have only a 48 inch w/b. This does the trick in back yards, but I really wish I had a 36 inch for some front yards. The grass flies so far from the shoot that sometimes it is a pain keeping grass out of the beds. I would get a 36 inch mower for lawns that small. Sell the 48 inch and put the money from that towards a 36 inch. That's all ya need in my opinion.

ULTIMATE LAWN
06-19-2003, 11:09 AM
It is usually faster to use a 21" than belt drives on small, tightly landscaped props. You need the instant reverse & zero turns to make a 48" productive on these lots.

lawn perfection
06-19-2003, 11:46 AM
i have several 1/4 lots i mow with a 48 belt drive w/b. never ahd any problems getting around with it. never use a push mower, now take it i have no gates to deal with either, if i did i would get a 36 or 32 "

MTR
06-19-2003, 12:40 PM
Based on my experience, I know what you are talking about for the 48" & 36" WB. The 36" is the most versatile of all if you only have one mower to do, and most of your accounts are based on residentials. It is no worry to pick up any neighborhood cause you can go anywhere especially on the tighly landscaped front yard, mailbox, flower, hedges, etc. The 48" is good on back yard with speed but when it come to tight trees and things, the 36 took over, let alone gate issue.
If you can get a Hydro 36" with bullrider or jungle wheels, I think you are set for long haul cause you can cut "everywhere" as of residentials.

Tbarchaser
06-19-2003, 07:00 PM
looks like a 36" stander is what you need!

qwikv6
06-19-2003, 10:04 PM
CoachLinz,

Sent you a PM.

Marc

Doc Pete
06-19-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by geogunn
oh BS BHB! I'll put my belt drive any where you can put a hydro except I aint backin' up any hills in reverse.
GEO

Well actually, that's your problem, you're still mowing like we did 8 years ago. You may "put" belt drive anywhere, but after pulling it back and forth, in and out, and left and right, I've finished 2 more lawns than you and ready for another. Not that BHB is correct, either:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Rhett
06-19-2003, 11:22 PM
Hang out the season with what you have. Save a few bucks and in the off season get a smaller mower. I have a 36 and a 52 and like any tool they both have their place. Would hate to be with out either one. As far as belt vs hydro figure out how much work will be required for the difference and you decide


Rhett

Doc Pete
06-19-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by CoachLinz
I end up having to push mow at least part of all but a few jobs and the maneuvering gets real tricky with the 48" because the lawns are small.

If the mower itself will "fit" in the areas and it's just maneuvering that's the problem, buy an H bar, and start "cleaning up" doing all the little properties with a machine that will out maneuver a 21" trim mower. I love doing those 15 minute lawns for $25 a pop. You can clear over $70/hour cuttin' those little babies.
Pete

H2OandNcutter
06-19-2003, 11:40 PM
Yup, sounds like the 36 inch hydro is the choice here - finances permitting!

How about this issue/concern/observation. With uneven terrain a more narrow deck will give a better cut 'cause it can follow the undulations more closely. Do you guys find that you get a satisfactory, minimal uneven cutting, result from the 48 inchers?

R.S.

Doc Pete
06-19-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by H2Oand Ncutter
Yup, sounds like the 36 inch hydro is the choice here - finances permitting!

How about this issue/concern/observation. With uneven terrain a more narrow deck will give a better cut 'cause it can follow the undulations more closely. Do you guys find that you get a satisfactory, minimal uneven cutting, result from the 48 inchers?

R.S.

The 48 will give a better cut, front to rear because of it's shorter wheelbase compared to a 36". Also a few machines, Ferris and Hustler (others??) have a super wide wheel width and except for and actual mounds of uneven ground they basically won't scalp side to side. I've found unless you have a gate to go through don't bother with the 36" get a good 48".
Pete

HarryD
06-20-2003, 12:06 AM
I would keep the 48" and buy a 36" hydro to go with it :)

geogunn
06-20-2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
Well actually, that's your problem, you're still mowing like we did 8 years ago. You may "put" belt drive anywhere, but after pulling it back and forth, in and out, and left and right, I've finished 2 more lawns than you and ready for another.

very funny switchless! you are on the record as saying that mowing properties using machines where the only difference is hydro VS. belt that you can out cut me THREE to ONE. and that is making all other things equal.

and I say you can't do it!

and I'll bet you a thousand dollars a property that you can't finish three and be ready for the fourth (see yourself quoted above) before I am done with one!

now do you want to make some easy money? you can use it to make payments on those hydros...if you win! payup

GEO

Doc Pete
06-20-2003, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by geogunn
very funny switchless! you are on the record as saying that mowing properties using machines where the only difference is hydro VS. belt that you can out cut me THREE to ONE. and that is making all other things equal.
and I say you can't do it!

Now George you have to be fair. Sure it's an exaggeration, but a hydro, more particular an H bar, is so much more maneuverable and less tiring than a belt drive, thereís no comparison between the two. I just did another lawn last night that needed all the grass in the back patio area bagged (10 inches high) or cut only one way, away from the house. The H bar with doubles let me mow forward and backward sucking up and blowing all the grass in one direction and into the woods. Using it was actually easier than pushing and pulling a 21Ē trim mower. To repeat, if you are using any other WB than an H bar, you are still just 8 years behind the times in mowing. And that you can take to the bank.:p

geogunn
06-20-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
Now George you have to be fair. Sure it's an exaggeration, but.... And that you can take to the bank.:p

allrighty SWITCH! HAHAHA...that was an acceptable retraction!:D

but the spousal unit is gonna be real disappointed when I tell he we aint going up to JOISEY to make some quick $$$$!

when I told her I'd even be paying for the trip this time she started slinging her bags on the trailer!

you are right for the most part. I know for a fact that the belt units have their place in the industry, just as well as I know the hydro is preferable except for a few situations.

and one of those situations would be cost of hydro repair vs. keeping an extra drive belt behind the seat.

no way would I ever give a hydro to an employee on my operating buget.

thanks for the laugh switch...and I do run about eight years late lots of times. maybe a hydro is in my future!

GEO

Doc Pete
06-20-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by geogunn
thanks for the laugh switch...and I do run about eight years late lots of times.GEO

Why GEO, you've finally arrived.......You realize this is all just fun. Can you imagine actually taking the advice of a "computer monitor", especially having no clue the Keyboardist behind it.:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:
Here's a pic of the rest of my employees, Bert, Larry, Ken, Jim, and Lou..........

Pete

ULTIMATE LAWN
06-20-2003, 07:29 PM
We doubled production on smaller res. after switching from belt to hydro's.

Belt drives & small props don't mix.

ahah
06-20-2003, 08:16 PM
If your most productive mower is sitting on your trailer simply because you think it is too big to be on certain properties with it, you are losing time. Time is money.
I have one property that I use a smaller mower on because the customer requested it and was willing to PAY for the extra time I spend at her property.
I also have another customer that has a 250 sq foot lawn (yes 250) that i use a 60" deck on because I can and they don't care.

We buy machines to be as productive as possible. Use the biggest and fastest machine you can use at all possible times.

Doc Pete
06-20-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
We doubled production on smaller res. after switching from belt to hydro's.

Belt drives & small props don't mix.

Yup,
Part of the package is the ability to stay "fresh as a daisy" through the day. After a few lawns with the Belt drive and making turns, pulling here, wrestling it there and braking on those downhills, it starts to take it's toll.

geogunn
06-21-2003, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
Yup,
Part of the package is the ability to stay "fresh as a daisy" through the day. After a few lawns with the Belt drive and making turns, pulling here, wrestling it there and braking on those downhills, it starts to take it's toll.

"you guys in the know" are making me feel real good about being a hard worker!

after a few lawns with the ole LESCO and easily making turns, rarely pulling at all and leaving the wrestling to later at night:blush: , I am must be in pretty good shape for an old fart cause it just aint killin me.

brakes are required when going down hill but mowing from bottom up, minimizes that!

despite all my perserverance, I am gonna pick up a hydeo as soon as the one I want comes along for the money I wanna pay.

just think...perhaps then I'll know as much about the biz as BUSHHOGB(OY)ABY!

NAAAA! it'll never happen!;)

GEO

Doc Pete
06-21-2003, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by geogunn
"you guys in the know" are making me feel real good about being a hard worker!
after a few lawns with the ole LESCO and easily making turns, rarely pulling at all and leaving the wrestling to later at night:blush: , I am must be in pretty good shape for an old fart cause it just aint killin me. brakes are required when going down hill but mowing from bottom up, minimizes that!
GEO

Geo,
I'm 53 and solo, so I do all the work;). Put it this way, I've walked in your shoes for about 7/8 years and realize the difference in a good Hydro and belt drive. You haven't done that.
A good hydro (there's only one:p), will let you increase "whatever" work you are doing now by about 40%, and make the work easier on your body at the same time. Sure you can keep doing what you are doing, but it doesn't take much figuring to see it's a smart move to increase your profit margin by 40% and make the work you're doing easier, too.
Pete

PaulJ
06-21-2003, 06:29 PM
ONe thing I have realized is that the smaller the mower, the bigger difference a hydro can make over a gear drive. think about it. with 32 and 36 and even 48 inch mowers you to make much tighter turns than the 52 and 60 in mowers. Also the smaller mowers will fit between the things the larger mowers can't , so you can get into and out of really tight spots using the mowers poer and not your own. Right now I have a 36 in gear drive and I KNOW that I could be more productive with either a 48 in gear or a 36in hydro. What I really want is a 48 in hydro. I have used 48 in hydro mowers in places I wouldn't even want to put a 21" (steep slopes , around/under grapevines and trees.)

So to answer the original ?? NO a 48"is not to large for small proporties. (2000 to 10000 sq ft)

Doc Pete
06-21-2003, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by PaulJ
ONe thing I have realized is that the smaller the mower, the bigger difference a hydro can make over a gear drive. think about it. with 32 and 36 and even 48 inch mowers you to make much tighter turns than the 52 and 60 in mowers. Also the smaller mowers will fit between the things the larger mowers can't , so you can get into and out of really tight spots using the mowers poer and not your own. Right now I have a 36 in gear drive and I KNOW that I could be more productive with either a 48 in gear or a 36in hydro. What I really want is a 48 in hydro. I have used 48 in hydro mowers in places I wouldn't even want to put a 21" (steep slopes , around/under grapevines and trees.)

So to answer the original ?? NO a 48"is not to large for small proporties. (2000 to 10000 sq ft)

Paul,
Smart guy;) Now, applying that same logic, the hydro you use should able to go forward and backwards and mow backwards just like you pull backwards a 21Ē trimmer to cut. Also, as you push a 21 forward rock it over one row and pull it backwards to mow another row, the hydro you buy should be able to do the same without effort and one handed.
Those spots where you need to push/pull a 21 to throw all the grass away from a patio, a car, the deck or side of a house should be able to be done ďwithoutĒ effort with the hydro you buy.
Just as you mow under shrubs with one hand and pull the machine back out from under the shrub should be part of the hydro you buy.
As you can tell I really donít give a hoot about those that canít fathom the way a good hydro should operate, strictly because they donít own one. The hydro you buy should allow you to operate it with one hand, speeding up, slowing down, and/or stopping, leaving the other hand to move branches, bushes, swings, chairs and any obstacles, "as you mow". So, with that in mind, when you decide on a hydro WB, remind yourself, ďI want this machine to do whatever my 21 machine will do and do it with less effortĒ. And, to that end the Hustler WB is the only answer.
Pete

tiedeman
06-21-2003, 07:10 PM
we use a 52" walk behind for our small residentials. Still does a nice stripe job

brucec32
07-05-2003, 01:15 AM
I require the smaller decks mostly for their ability to handle Bermuda w/o scalping spots on unevenly laid sod (most new lawns here)

I think a 36" belt drive would just slow you down vs. your 48" if you're mowing bluegrass up there. You still have to make all the turns, heave the mower around in tight spots, and you lose some of the trimming ability from the added overhang and also it's a little harder to make a turn at the end of the row and resume on the next row smoothly with a narrower deck, again due to the overhang.

Going to a hydro would be less tiring and faster on lots where you're turning and backing up a lot. But I would try out a Stander type mower too. I've watched them and they seem to turn fast and don't take up a lot of space.

Be sure to measure those gates well. I have some gates a 36" won't fit in but a 32" will. But they're usually so small it's not a big deal to use a 21" on.

geogunn
07-05-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com
Geo,
I'm 53 and solo, so I do all the work;). Put it this way, I've walked in your shoes for about 7/8 years and realize the difference in a good Hydro and belt drive. You haven't done that.
A good hydro (there's only one:p), will let you increase "whatever" work you are doing now by about 40%, and make the work easier on your body at the same time. Sure you can keep doing what you are doing, but it doesn't take much figuring to see it's a smart move to increase your profit margin by 40% and make the work you're doing easier, too.
Pete

PETE--- okey dokey. somebody brought this to the top again and I bit on it so here we go again!

40%, fourty percent, 4-0 percent. how else do you say it?

pete, please tell me where the 40% comes from. just tell me!

40% is big. not like the 300% you quoted earlier. wife is still mad about having to throw clothes back in the closet after I promised we were gonna get rich in JOISEE!

pete--tell me where you can beat me by almost half again! just tell me!

TELL MEEEEE!!! DAMMIT!!! I AM DYING HERE! I WANT THE 40% MORE PROFFIT YOU PROMISE. arrrrgggghhhhh 40%!!! just give it to me!!!!!!!!!!!;)

GEO

Envy Lawn Service
07-05-2003, 04:10 AM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
It is usually faster to use a 21" than belt drives on small, tightly landscaped props. You need the instant reverse & zero turns to make a 48" productive on these lots.
Originally posted by Tbarchaser
looks like a 36" stander is what you need!

I'll agree with these. Biggere is not always better for everyone. I really wanted a 60" class mower bad. But I use a 48" mower. Why? Because it's shorter, more compact and manueverable. So it's more productive for me overall than the larger mowers.

I bet manuverability is your #1 issue, not the 48" deck. I bet if you demoed a 48" Stander or Super Surfer you would see an immediate increase in productivity. But if you relly like WB's you can't get any shorter than the Great Dane Scamper.

It's funny how we all differ, I don't have anything I can't get w/48" Z. Anything else I get with the trimmer. I never "cut" with the 21" at all. The only use it gets is those places where I need to offset the drive pattern.

Now for switchless and his H-Bar. I haven't tried it, but I don't buy it...period. From my understanding (which could be wrong) the H-Bar is essentially a joystick for walkbehinds. This links the controls to both sides together, which hs it's merit....but we all know about how well joysticks have went over on Z's. I'll take my separate controls thanks....

Doc Pete
07-05-2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by geogunn
PETE--- okey dokey. somebody brought this to the top again and I bit on it so here we go again!

40%, fourty percent, 4-0 percent. how else do you say it?

pete, please tell me where the 40% comes from. just tell me!

40% is big. not like the 300% you quoted earlier. wife is still mad about having to throw clothes back in the closet after I promised we were gonna get rich in JOISEE!

pete--tell me where you can beat me by almost half again! just tell me!

TELL MEEEEE!!! DAMMIT!!! I AM DYING HERE! I WANT THE 40% MORE PROFFIT YOU PROMISE. arrrrgggghhhhh 40%!!! just give it to me!!!!!!!!!!!;)

GEO
Geo,
Well a 40% increase over $45/hour is $63/hour. In my case thatís the improvement I went to going from my beltdrive Bobcat to the Hustler WB. Yes, that included changing trailers and reorganizing how I loaded stuff on the trailer, but itís working for me. Naturally, your ďmileageĒ my vary, however the improvement is split pretty much between less fatigue using the machine and the ability of the machine to plain perform better. Frankly, just the laughs and giggles, plus the total lack of people using the Hustler WB, shows me most guys donít care about improving their profit margin and sadder, ainít smart enough recognize how to do it. As Iím sure youíve noticed, Iíve given up on attempting to offer how to increase your profit margin, since thereís no reason to beat a dead horse. Anyway, go demo an H bar WB for 3 days, and tell me I'm wrong.

Gr grass n Hi tides
07-05-2003, 09:29 AM
To answer the original question, a 48 hydro is not too big for small properties. Not at all. You will be able to get that mower into lots of small, tight areas, trust me. I do it all of the time. 48 hydro is a very versatile size, in my opinion. In fact, your productivity will skyrocket with a 48 hydro on small properties. I'll bet your eyes pop when thinking of how much more full your schedule could be.

awm
07-05-2003, 09:31 AM
uh oh . u messing with a man that has learned his equipment ,which i think is the real secrete in this buisiness.
plus hes gonna be in top shape from walkin. pays to think these things out.

if a man knows his equipment,hes gonna be better with it . speed is just a matter of how much he wants to put into it. jmo . id bet this tho in normal conditions, geogun just lets the machine set its pace ,according to conditions.
thats what i do.

Lawn Lizards
07-05-2003, 11:50 AM
36" - a little easier to control (you'll have more weedeating though because the deck isn't as wide when taking turns) and you can get it into the back yards. One mower.

However, I have a 48" w/b and I don't really have any problem in tight areas. If you can't keep the 48 and get a 36, I would just get a 36, you will be able to cut the yards even faster since you can just go right into the backyard. Good luck!

Doc Pete
07-05-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Gr grass n Hi tides
To answer the original question, a 48 hydro is not too big for small properties. Not at all. You will be able to get that mower into lots of small, tight areas, trust me. I do it all of the time. 48 hydro is a very versatile size, in my opinion. In fact, your productivity will skyrocket with a 48 hydro on small properties. I'll bet your eyes pop when thinking of how much more full your schedule could be.

And to answer the original question further, if you use the H bar compared to pistol grips, expect to add another 10%/hour to whatever you are making. Not that you will, but it's there for the taking.......

ULTIMATE LAWN
07-05-2003, 07:55 PM
Whatever mumbo jumbo #'s Switchless gives for increased productivity with the H-Bar you can add another 10% with ECS.

Squeezing ECS handles will not "fatigue" the operater especially after they are worked in & zero-turns are effortless. The only limited benefit I can see from H-Bar is the ability to control with one hand, which can be achieved with ECS in certain situations & really isn't needed in others. H-Bar is not the magical be all & end all Switchless would have you believe as ECS is also a near perfect melding of the hydraulics to a control system.

Doc Pete
07-05-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
Whatever mumbo jumbo #'s Switchless gives for increased productivity with the H-Bar you can add another 10% with ECS.

Squeezing ECS handles will not "fatigue" the operater especially after they are worked in & zero-turns are effortless. The only limited benefit I can see from H-Bar is the ability to control with one hand, which can be achieved with ECS in certain situations & really isn't needed in others. H-Bar is not the magical be all & end all Switchless would have you believe as ECS is also a near perfect melding of the hydraulics to a control system.

Sorry, all I'm offering is a better way than ECS. And, just because you in particular can't see the difference doesn't mean others can't. Gees, at least give the guy a chance to find out for himself what's better. If he likes ECS, fine, but let him decide and not "you".......Thanks.
Furthermore, I can gladly explain why the H bar is better. You, on the other hand, still think you can zeroturn a 600lb. machine going 3.5 mph, instantly, without slowing down. Even a 5th grader understands you can't change directions without slowing down.............

ULTIMATE LAWN
07-06-2003, 12:36 AM
Switchless, can you tell me how many hrs you've put on an ECS hydro.

From reading your posts I believe you've either gone from a belt drive or pistol hydro straight into the H-Bar & are astounded at the difference. I demoed the H-Bar & it really does not have any advantage over ECS. On a tightly landscaped lot with allot of reverse & zero turns the ECS does everything the H-Bar does & more precisely IMO. The H-Bar is superior to T-Bar & pistols but when comparing to ECS you're comparing Coke to Pepsi.

Since the control system compairison between the 2 mowers is redundant I prefer to look at discharge & mulching capabilities where eXmark has a distinct edge.

Doc Pete
07-06-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
Since the control system compairison between the 2 mowers is redundant.

What was I thinking:dizzy:.... of course they are the same. You have a nice day now...........