Help! How do I work around this sprinkler system?

[Woerner Turf]

I am going to sod a 26,000 sq. ft. area with St. Augustine. Before I sod though, I will bring in enough topsoil to raise the grade about 4 inches in one rather large low spot that collects water after a rain. This water was keeping any grass from growing in that spot.

O.K. The question: What do you guys think the best way is to:

#1 till and remove the existing sod within the entire 26,000 sq ft area for sod prep?
#2 spread and grade about 40- 50 yards of topsoil in this one low spot?

The catch is that there is a very shallow sprinkler system where I will be doing the install; 1 to 2 inches deep in many areas. Is there a method that any of you guys use to till over the tops of shallow poly pipe while not pulling any of it up or damaging sprinkler heads? I really don't want to get into replacing the sprinkler parts, but I want to have good ground contact for the sod.

[lugnut#6]

use a sod cutter to remove the existing turf. as far as the sprinklers go.youll do more damage with the boxblade spreading the topsoil than u will prolly do with the sod cutter.i rented a sod cutter for aabout 40.00 a day here in ms.fixing brokin pipe is ez just dont damage the heads(15.00 apeace).pipe is a couple of bucks for 10'.if ya sever the pvc pipe just dig back bout 5' so u can flex the pvc to get the couplings to slide on.poly pipe is even ezer to fix.DO NOT use compresion fittings.they WILL leak with time no matter who says they wont.as for the low wet area remember st augistine likes moist soil.it will grow where other grass wont in regards to moisture.if ya cut the control wires to the valve use those grease tube type connectors to splice it back.



ps i bought my sod from woerner tuff over by foly al. great folks good sod and great price

[teeca]

question; can you install drain tile (corigated 4" pipe) to help control flooding/standing water?
on the removal of old grass/weeds; can you spray the existing ground cover? i.e round up? this will only kill the existing vegatation, then install sod. i do that up here in indiana on new installs (housing additions).

on the sod cutter, i bought mine at a rental store used, got a great deal too.

[Grassmechanic]

Originally posted by lugnut#6
DO NOT use compresion fittings.they WILL leak with time no matter who says they wont.

lugnut, do you work at a deli, because that is baloney. I used 3" compression couplings to repair the irrigation system on a golf course for over 8 yrs and NEVER had a leak. This was a schedule 80, 125 psi system. Like with anything, if you don't do it correctly you'll have problems.

Mike

[lugnut#6]

ok...so maybe i exagerrated alittle :)
the ones u get from your local supply house for lite commercial\residental use ....STINK!

3" and 125 psi required a bit heavier grade of fitting...didnt it?

sorry if i sounded to brash earlier

[illday]

$40 a day!!!
It cost me $70 for a half day rental the other day.

[Grassmechanic]

lugnut - I use KBI or Flo-Control brand compression fittings. They are schedule 40 and they are available in all sizes up to 3", I believe. When giving advice to folks on this forum, you should be as truthful as possible. If somone asks for something you're not sure of, please don't give false info out. I'm sure you wouldn't want that done to you. Thanks.

Mike

[lugnut#6]

well...honestly i still stand by my statement that it is better to replace a broken section with a new stick of pvc and some glue.
and i know dozens of plumbers and irrigation specialist that will agree.so there was nothing false about anything i said.
guess some are more concerned about quality than profit... ;)

[Grassmechanic]

reread your original post. You stated compression fittings always leak. That is false. Don't try to spin by saying one way to repair a leak is better than the other. I've ran into many "repairs" with bad glue joints that leaked.

Mike

[lugnut#6]

true..bad installation of anything will fail..but..respectfully..i disagree.the rubber o rings in a compression fitting will alway break down faster than the rest of the pvc fitting.it will leak eventually,maybe not soon, but as sure as the sun rises it will someday go out before a properly installed glue job.
if,and i said if,that fitting blows you will end up with more time and money invested on that job than it would have cost to do it without the fitting.
the rather inflamitory context of your post isnt necessary ether.
if you cant disagree like an adult then save it for someone else.

[Grassmechanic]

Inflammatory? I haven't said anything inflammatory. There is a difference in disagreeing and telling the truth. It appears you have a problem telling the truth and then you get upset when someone brings it to your attention.

I've worked in irrigation for over 20 years, with several years in municipal water line installation. Do you realize how much gasketed pipe is used in municipal water systems? If your theory of eventual leaks was true, every 20' of water systems would need repair. That, plain and simple, is not the case. Do you realize that with compression fittings, the pipe has "give" to it. With glued fittings, the pipe is rigid and therefore, when there is movement in the pipe, something has to give - the glue joint. I've repaired MANY faulty glue joints and zero faulty o-rings.

Additionally, I don't take offense to your cheap shot at me about concerning quality over profit. I get most of my irrigation repair referrals from people who've had problems after trying to deal with so-called irrigation specialists who can't fix their problems.

Mike

[lugnut#6]

"lugnut, do you work at a deli, because that is baloney".

thats inflammatory.

i shouldn't have used the term "always" that was, as i said a bit of exaggeration. shoulda know someone would hang on every word.
those fittings blow all the time in city water systems.just cause you never replaced one doesn't mean it doesn't happen.I've seen the **** that my tax dollars pay to have installed then i see it being fixed.
i spent 6 years getting an engineering degree only to be told im full of baloney?i dont think so.
you do as you wish with what you wish.the truth is a matter of perception.
simple movement in the ground from temp flux will do no more damage to the fitting than normal.the pipe itself will shift and flex
within inches just fine.under normal situations pipe doesn't shift by a matter of feet.so the "give" is in the conduit not the joint.
do you routinely dig up an check?you could have problem in a residential application and cause its not under the pressure of a city line you wouldn't know it till the problem showed on the surface.
nothing i said was untruthful and implying that means that i was intensionally trying to mislead him.and that is not the case.

[Arnold]

When dealing with a brake in PVC or Poly they make repair couplings that telescope to make the repairs much easier and you don't have too dig a huge hole. I must say that a properly installed compression will last a long, long time. Just don't use the compressions that use the nylon seal make sure they have rubber seals.Thats my two cents. If you all need the names of the repair fittings I will post them my irrigation book is in the shop

[Grassmechanic]

Originally posted by lugnut#6
"lugnut, do you work at a deli, because that is baloney".

thats inflammatory. (quote)

I'm sorry if that the statement offended you. That was not the intent. I apologize for that.

(Quote)i shouldn't have used the term "always" that was, as i said a bit of exaggeration. shoulda know someone would hang on every word. (Quote)

when you capitalize words (DO NOT, WILL), you are emphasizing them. Oviously, you believe in your statements so much, that you felt you needed to put extra emphasis on them.

(Quote)those fittings blow all the time in city water systems.just cause you never replaced one doesn't mean it doesn't happen.I've seen the **** that my tax dollars pay to have installed then i see it being fixed. (Quote)

Have you gotten out of your car to see what was being fixed? More than likely a cast iron main. That's one of the reasons most municipalities are converting to PVC from cast iron.


(Quote)i spent 6 years getting an engineering degree only to be told im full of baloney?i dont think so.
you do as you wish with what you wish.the truth is a matter of perception.(Quote)

The truth is the truth. It has nothing to do with perception.

(Quote)simple movement in the ground from temp flux will do no more damage to the fitting than normal.the pipe itself will shift and flex
within inches just fine.under normal situations pipe doesn't shift by a matter of feet.so the "give" is in the conduit not the joint.
do you routinely dig up an check?you could have problem in a residential application and cause its not under the pressure of a city line you wouldn't know it till the problem showed on the surface.(Quote)

Temperature does not affect pipe movement as much as water flowing through it. Have you ever seen a thrust block or know of its use? Pipe moves more from water flow than temperature. I've repaired many glue joints that failed from improper thrust block installation. Why? because the pipe had moved from water pressure, and in some cases, by more than 1 foot. In fact, in the 80's, I was called to a golf course that had a new irrigation system installed. The tech started up the system without properly bleeding all the air from the system. About 150' of 4" pipe came up snaking out of the ground. I've experinced what water can do to pipe movement.

(Quote)nothing i said was untruthful and implying that means that i was intensionally trying to mislead him.and that is not the case.

lugnut, I'm sorry I didn't post earlier as I was called for an emergency repair for one of my clients. I will ALWAYS point out folks that give out information that is false on this board. I've been a victim of bad info. in the past and it's cost me. I wish you well in all your endeavors and I have not meant any malice towards you. In closing, I will qoute a great American in saying" we'll let the audience decide".

[lugnut#6]

and i apologies for the finite wording of my post.i still think that the more moving parts something has the more likely it is to fail,IE compression fittings and also telescopic fittings.I'm old school.i follow the "k.i.s.s" train of thought(keep it simple)
my father was like yourself,spent his whole life doing what your doing for a living.from the time i was old enough to hold a shovel i was digging trenches and listening to the ole man raise heck about the early compression fittings.its something that has stuck with me thru all the years.

ya ever watch the space shuttle take off?
watch the guys at mission control hold they'er breath.ya know why they do that? its cause with all the moving parts on such a machine they know the odds of it taking off right is less than the odds of it being successful.those astronauts put their lives in the hands of engineers who think the have it all figured out.(not that irrigation is a rocket science).
this analogy was given so you would have a better understanding of why i said the things i did.

yes,i was wrong for saying they will always leak.for that i say sorry :).but I'm following a philosophy of sorts.its better in most circumstances to follow the simplest route.but then ya also have to make a profit and thats where my philosophy and reality clash.

i try and give the best advise i can.the original post seemed to be from someone without a whole lot of experience with these problems.the advise i gave i feel is proper for someone without years of experience installing comp fittings.his odds for success would be,in my opinion,better if he followed the simplest repair procedure.a coupling and glue is "almost" fool proof.odds are he has used glue before.its something he might have more confidence in using.

sorry once again for arguing with you.and i too wish you the best life has to offer.its obvious you know what your doing and i was out of bounds by questioning your experience and knowledge.

[Grassmechanic]

lugnut - no hard feelings here, take care:waving: :drinkup:

Mike