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dougmartin2003
08-03-2003, 03:24 PM
i have a question, why do so many of you guys use a walk behind mower instead of a z rider. i have never used one before but are there any pros and con of a wb mower

LAWNGODFATHER
08-03-2003, 03:44 PM
In many cases a ZTR is more productive than a WB.

Why stand when you can sit?

Pros n cons; you got a lot of reading to do.

dougmartin2003
08-03-2003, 04:07 PM
thats what i thought a rider would be better

Husky
08-03-2003, 04:16 PM
Well HEY LGF...how bout a link or two, I love and hate the search...thanks

LAWNGODFATHER
08-03-2003, 04:23 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=129988&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Both mowers have their place, one is not a substition for the other and so on, get what's best for you to mow your lawns.

J&R
08-03-2003, 04:32 PM
ZTR mowers Pros more productive and ease on worker. Cons wont go on some hills and thru some gates Walk Behine Pros go on most steep hills and thru most gates Cons see ZTR pros

Keith
08-03-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER


Both mowers have their place, one is not a substition for the other and so on

That pretty much sums it up.

dougmartin2003
08-03-2003, 07:01 PM
thanks guys aroumd here there are hardly any gates to have to worry about and living in missouri there is no hills

Mark P
08-03-2003, 07:30 PM
:) I always have a 52" walkbehind on my trailor, alot of my highend jobs are on the overlook right at the Ohio River, Which is way to hilly for my ZTR rider, also use a walkbehind on some of the smallar accounts, but im rideing about 60% of the week. I just can't pass on lawns that pay the big dollars which have to be cut with a walkbehind............Marks Mowing Service

A1 Grass
08-03-2003, 07:43 PM
Depending where you are and whether or not you do residential, a 32" wb may be the only one you can guarantee will get through a gate!

I'd love to have a rider, but I wouldn't be able to get into about 2/3 (or more) of my back yards!

:rolleyes: Someday I'll get a big ol' 52" ZT! :rolleyes:

GarPA
08-04-2003, 05:25 AM
just added a 36" to go with the 52"Z.
The honda 21" was about worn out. Now the 36 can go anywhere the 21 did, much faster and can handle longer grass. Also the 36 will go places I would not dare take the Z(steep slopes, yards with many beds, very soggy conditions,thru any gate, replaces the 21"). I'm finding a 36wb and a 52 Z to be an almost perfect combination for almost any property.....but I still have chest pains over what the 36 cost me given the low hours its going to get

mtdman
08-04-2003, 08:44 AM
I mow mostly residentials, and since I am on my own now, I have gotten rid of most of my larger lawns. I have always used walk behinds, the work just fine on the size lawns I have, and I can't imagine using a riding mower would decrease my cutting time any. I get all kinds of crap about using the wbs on residential lawns as it is! I think it is all a matter of using the right tool for the right job, and many lawns are just not configured for riding mower use.

That, and I like to walk the lawns. Mowing is my source of exercise, and I'd hate to think what would happen to my health if I weren't walking a dozen or so lawns a day.

:D

Gravely_Man
08-04-2003, 12:01 PM
Most of the properties that I mow are small enough that it is faster with a walk behind then with a ZTR. If you have larger accounts that are fairly wide open a ZTR is the way to go.


Gravely_Man

Swampbeast
08-04-2003, 12:17 PM
Use a WB on smaller yards, easier to manuever, lighter too.

The ZTRs are good for the bigger yards where there is just a lot of mowing to do, therefore thier higher productive speed makes you more dough. I always have both on all my trailers.

:cool:

xpnd
08-04-2003, 12:46 PM
Most of the discussion has had to do with production however the flip side of the coin is quality of cut. The smaller the cut of the mower the higher the quality of cut can be obtained. If the larger cut equipment eliminates the possibility of custom cutting, cutting a different direction 4x a month, then in very short order the turf will develop a grain and ruts will develop in the soil. For me selection of equipment used is determined by the limitations of the site in terms of size and dimensions. We have some extremely large lots that we use 21" mowers on simply because the landscape installtions scattered throughout the yard make it impossible to even get two different cutting directions a month. Likewise we have some substantially smaller lots that because of the dimensions the 32, 36 and or 48 wb produce a very nice product. Not only is production per hour an important consideration, but what is produced in that hour is an equal consideration. I love the Scotts Turf Builder ad because when I see it, all I see is two things, a very pronounced grain in the turf and wheel ruts every 21" in a very large lawn that could be custom cut every week with a large wb or even a rider.

MTR
08-04-2003, 12:55 PM
As others have said each has its own place, that is why a combo of 36' WB and 52" ZTR is the perfect setup for any lawn job.
36" WB for residential that is not too big and ability to do gated areas, also steep hill as many high-end communities whose yards have crazy hills overlooking poorer suburbs down there! so your WB has its place.
52" ZTR is the most bang for bucks for wide or big yards without much terrain to worry, besides not being too big to manouver around and you don't get too fatigued like riding sulky as trying to increase $$ all day.
If you can afford only one, then you have to pick one that can do it all on your accounts.
regards,

Ron Greenwood Jr
08-04-2003, 03:58 PM
we were in the same decision, defently start by using walkbehinds and as your buisness grows then go for the z. A 36" and a 48" or 52" these mowers would make a great combination to assure that you can do all your lawns I see no reason for geting a z if you dont have the business to back it. Hope I can justify geting one next year lol.

rodfather
08-04-2003, 04:17 PM
In general and all things being equal, a WB will be easier on turf than a Z. And as mentioned, they can go places a Z simply will not.

dougmartin2003
08-04-2003, 04:48 PM
i have a gravley 48" ztr and would consider getting a 36 wb

rodfather
08-04-2003, 04:55 PM
A ZTR (IMO) will get stuck more often than a WB because you don't have the same "feel" with a Z that you have with a WB...especially in wet or soft conditions.

ULTIMATE LAWN
08-04-2003, 05:34 PM
As a Former Member of LS once Said.

Women Sit--Men Stand.

rodfather
08-04-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
As a Former Member of LS once Said.

Women Sit--Men Stand.


Good Lord...now it's gonna fly big time.

BTW UL, does siting on my Toro Groundsmaster 325D make me a woman? 4WD, Power Steering, 72" deck...argh, argh, argh...more torque than I know what to do with?

mottster
08-04-2003, 07:28 PM
You take a 60" ztr and put it on a yard that is comparable into ratio to one that a 36" wb can cut in the same time...the wb will finish first. from my experience with ztrs in order to get a clean turn without tearing up the lawn you have to slow down....stop...then slowly start to turn the inside wheel backwards then flip the outside wheel forward and take off. if you just plow through these steps i find the inside wheel will tear turf up. thats what our 61" Husky does at work, anyway.

With wbs, yeah, they're not as fast as a ztr and most of the time their decks aren't as large....yet....when you want to turn i find it's a lot quicker. simply because as stated before...you have a better feel to the controls and since they don't have as much power there isn't as much torque that will set the tires free and tearing turf up.


just from my experience though....

LAWNGODFATHER
08-04-2003, 07:40 PM
How do you figure that?

Exmark 52" Lazer HP 23hp Kohler.

Exmark Turf Tracer 52" 23hp Kohler

1 Ztr 1 Wb both same HP and same deck size.

ZTR has bigger wider tires.

Again a 36" to a 61" ZTR, should that ZTR of been on the lawn?

grassdaddy
08-04-2003, 09:07 PM
1 reason I'll always have a w/b--HILLS,Steep ones around here.You can mow ACROSS about any hill you can stand to follow it on.Tested it againest turf tiger,tiger slides rr end down hill that is piece of cake on 17/48 w/b,its not even close.:)

rodfather
08-04-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by rodfather
Good Lord...now it's gonna fly big time.

BTW UL, does siting on my Toro Groundsmaster 325D make me a woman? 4WD, Power Steering, 72" deck...argh, argh, argh...more torque than I know what to do with?


I am waiting, numb nuts...

LAWNGODFATHER
08-04-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
As a Former Member of LS once Said.

Women Sit--Men Stand. He's quoting Lawrence Stone in a thread I started.....

Basicly UL is putting himself down cause he can't afford a ZTR. He's trying to weasle around by saying everything he can bad about them.

ULTIMATE LAWN
08-04-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by rodfather

BTW UL, does siting on my Toro Groundsmaster 325D make me a woman? 4WD, Power Steering, 72" deck...argh, argh, argh...more torque than I know what to do with?

You are eXcused.

Obviously that post was made by the Late Great lawrence stone in Jest. Some are Very Touchy. A very Feminine Trait.

Fact being there are 1 or 2 Larger LCO's in my area who are primarily commercial cutters. They are generally equipped w/ZTR & Toro Prolines. When they attempt to mow the type of tightly landscaped res. props we Specialize in they Allways use the Prolines while we Use the Hydro Walks.

Why?

Because Trim time is increased to a Point where Using a 21" is Just more productive than using the Z.

Obviously We are not talking about anything With Wide Open Space.

That's a Fact Jack.

LAWNGODFATHER
08-04-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
Because Trim time is increased to a Point where Using a 21" is Just more productive than using the Z.
Toro Prolines. Youhave a Toro Proline.......a 36" Toro Proline.

Secondly the 21" has a smallest foot print of any WB, that's not the same point you have been pushing in other threads, and you contradicted almost everything you have said under the screen name "Ultimate Lawns" with this statement.

"That's the fact Jack.........."

tiedeman
08-04-2003, 11:13 PM
a walk behind with a sulkie for us is a reasonable price, but most importantly of all we have a lot of low trees that we have to mow under and the walk behinds are just a better fit

H2OandNcutter
08-04-2003, 11:20 PM
Hey,

Already have a 44 inch LHP with UltraVac. Just purchased, and will pick up tomorrow, a 36 inch TTHP. Reasons have
all been mentioned - hills, quality of cut, rough terrain, smaller properties, and back up/second commercial mower
should either be in for service.

R.S.

LAWNGODFATHER
08-06-2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by ULTIMATE LAWN
As a Former Member of LS once Said.

Women Sit--Men Stand.

A recap of what you wrote the last time that was said by Mr. Stone.

Originally posted by casey
Were you sitting or standing when you wrote that?:eek:

Doc Pete
08-06-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by rodfather
I am waiting, numb nuts...

Rod,
I’m starting to wonder how UL knows so much about one's Feminine side. First, if you use an H bar, you’re either a “wimp” or “limpwristed”, now if you sit you’re a “women”.
I'm getting goose bumps just listening to his posts:blush:.

GLAN
08-06-2003, 06:48 PM
Hahahahahahahaha...................:eek:

Kingbman1
08-06-2003, 11:11 PM
dougmartin2003,

No Hills in Missouri? Have you traveled a little south, ever heard of the ozark mountains in Missouri. Theres even large hills in St. Louis County.

LAWNGODFATHER
08-06-2003, 11:54 PM
Yeo Wildwood is terrable for hills.

bastalker
08-07-2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by xpnd
Most of the discussion has had to do with production however the flip side of the coin is quality of cut. The smaller the cut of the mower the higher the quality of cut can be obtained.

Have to disagree. IMO the lazers cut quality exceeds most walk behinds. more HP, faster blade speed. I have about 75 accounts, and can count on one hand the yards I have to use a wb on. I have a few that have gates the z wont get thru. I have small yards, and I also have some sizable ones. Its a matter of what your comfortable with. The quality will come if your comfortable with the machine.

Movinfr8
08-07-2003, 08:35 AM
Speaking only for me,
My reasons for a WB:
-just getting into the biz with 4 accounts- small-mediun residential
-my quarter acre customers would flip out at a 60 inch lazer
-$2000 outta checking verses $9000 in debt
-hills. not right now, but possibly on a future account
-part-timer, hate to have capital sitting idle 8 hours/day
-small 36 incher removes need for my 22 inch Craftsman!
-I can use my little 4X7 trailer, saving parking headache, and wear and tear on truck
-it (36 incher) will stay useful in the future, as a backup/backyard machine
That's all I can think of right now, gotta go cut grass
Norm

Doc Pete
08-07-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Movinfr8
Speaking only for me,
My reasons for a WB:
-just getting into the biz with 4 accounts- small-mediun residential
-my quarter acre customers would flip out at a 60 inch lazer
-$2000 outta checking verses $9000 in debt
-hills. not right now, but possibly on a future account
-part-timer, hate to have capital sitting idle 8 hours/day
-small 36 incher removes need for my 22 inch Craftsman!
-I can use my little 4X7 trailer, saving parking headache, and wear and tear on truck
-it (36 incher) will stay useful in the future, as a backup/backyard machine
That's all I can think of right now, gotta go cut grass
Norm

Sounds good to me, good thoughts.

MTR
08-07-2003, 12:13 PM
Hey, movingfr8, I like some of what you said...
-just getting into the biz with 4 accounts- small-mediun residential
-my quarter acre customers would flip out at a 60 inch lazer
-$2000 outta checking verses $9000 in debt (love this line!)
-hills. not right now, but possibly on a future account
-part-timer, hate to have capital sitting idle 8 hours/day
-it (36 incher) will stay useful in the future, as a backup/backyard machine


I second that, and you will think of your right decision to start out with that 36", now I have a few questions:

1. Haven't you sold your 22" yet? or still carrying around for doing nothing cause the 36" take over its job. I got the same mower you have except mine is pistols and it is the only mower I carry to finish all my accounts, great machine. Trying to push for more dollars working my tail off to get a 52" lazer by next season, lol.

2. Why didn't you use your bigger trailer instead of 4*7 size, which literally you can't even mount trimmer rack, let alone ladder and tools, i.e., rake, shovel, pole, hoe etc? Well, just wondering ?

Movinfr8
08-07-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by MTR


I second that, and you will think of your right decision to start out with that 36", now I have a few questions:

1. Haven't you sold your 22" yet? or still carrying around for doing nothing cause the 36" take over its job. I got the same mower you have except mine is pistols and it is the only mower I carry to finish all my accounts, great machine. Trying to push for more dollars working my tail off to get a 52" lazer by next season, lol.

2. Why didn't you use your bigger trailer instead of 4*7 size, which literally you can't even mount trimmer rack, let alone ladder and tools, i.e., rake, shovel, pole, hoe etc? Well, just wondering ?


1. Well, its collecting dust in the shed! I carried it on the first job after the 36 came along, didn't crank it, and left it home since. Still I might get a job in the subdivision my in-laws live in, and the gates are barely 36 there, the boltheads on the mulch kit would scrape! and IU have done one yard with a tiny gate...

2. Don't have a trimmer rack yet, and store trimmer in the back of the Montero, locked up and outta sight. Right now, i have 3/4 yard of mulch and all my tools on the other trailer, and it is a HEAVY tandem tlr the previous owner used to haul a bobcat, and the little one tows like it ain't there!
Yeah, I'd like to get a lazer too! but I'm still having fun on the sulky for now
Norm