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View Full Version : I bought a new 62" Toro ZTR


lawrence stone
10-06-2000, 12:17 PM
Well I finally broke down and took the advice of many on this forum and bought an new Zero Turn Rider.

Man this thing is loaded for it even came with a CD player.

The pics are at:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1209854&a=9233839

jaclawn
10-06-2000, 12:20 PM
Is that a leftover 2000, or a brand new 2001?

lawrence stone
10-06-2000, 12:40 PM
Yes it is a leftover.

jaclawn
10-06-2000, 12:46 PM
Those are the best deals.

Greenkeepers
10-06-2000, 04:35 PM
Stone-

It that the beast that will out cut any 52" Z on the market? Those belts must scream "help" going up hills with all of those accessories running on it. Is that sulky on of the Stone patented inventions, looks pretty comfortable.

Mike
Greenkeepers :)

curlawngreen
10-06-2000, 05:53 PM
YOU DID WHAT ?

MOW ED
10-06-2000, 06:19 PM
I couldn't really read the hour meter but I sure didn't see 0000 on it.
That must be your moneymaker hey Larry.

Whats in your white PVC exhaust stack?

stslawncare
10-06-2000, 06:56 PM
looks like one of those trash picker upper things to me, good idea stone to put that pvc there for it. have to worry bout ur cd player on that thing i would guess? looks cool to me.

Charles
10-06-2000, 07:16 PM
NIce looking machine Lawrence. Will cut down on the trimming under trees and bushes also

dhicks
10-06-2000, 09:12 PM
Hey Lawrence, welcome to the Toro Z-Master Club. I love my Z-Master, and you will too.

Turf Kutter
10-06-2000, 09:31 PM
It`s just a w/b with a sulky.It is not a Z Master.:rolleyes:

osc
10-07-2000, 06:21 PM
Lawrence:

Is that a JRCO bracket on the front of that thing?
How much money you got in that beast?
I don't think belt drive is true zero turn, maybe 3 degree turn.

[Edited by osc on 10-07-2000 at 09:25 PM]

Lazer
10-07-2000, 07:48 PM
ZTR?

Looks like a worthless belt-drive to me.

Only good for flat soccer fields at a slow, unproductive rate.

CD player looks nice, though.

[Edited by Lazer on 10-07-2000 at 10:54 PM]

KirbysLawn
10-07-2000, 08:49 PM
WOW. Very impressive!

John DiMartino
10-07-2000, 09:06 PM
ZTR rider? not quite Stone-I think you've had to much to drink today.

tpirobert
10-07-2000, 09:33 PM
Nice ride! Add turn signals and the truck can stay home.

lawrence stone
10-07-2000, 10:05 PM
Lazer wrote:

>Only good for flat soccer fields at a slow, unproductive rate.

Yes 3 acres per hours is not fast by ZTR standards BUT since I only make ONE pass at 5 mph the production is the same. The deck gives reel mower results at 5 mph.

I have $3k into that machine as it sits. It requires about $150 worth of drive train parts per year to maintain.

Over the winter I just swap out the tranny with one with fresh input shaft bearings, change the belts and output shafts bearings with new shafts and couplers also.

Fuel usage is .70 gal per hour. Gross weight is only 650 lbs. so it is easy to trailer.

It is not a hill climber but it will make an effective back up machine in the future. It gets the job done with little frills or fanfare.

It gives the same quaility for cut as a $15k 300 series 4wd
toro groundsmaster.

John DiMartino
10-07-2000, 10:22 PM
Stone-reel mower results-You dont want to go up against my old jacobsen reel mowers with any rotary at 5mph.I wont even backlap them and they still will amaze you with the cut they give.I do however agreewith you that a ZTR wouldnt be much better for a field that is being played-since you have to mow it to very high standards that cant be attained at 10mph.For dormant fields not in use however a Z would be the ticket.

lawrence stone
10-07-2000, 10:33 PM
I mow the dormant fields every other visit at 3" so in the fall season only baseball and softball are dormant.

Still not enough gain in productivity to warrent the spending of $6k+ and I have to then drag another 500+ lbs
around a three county area thats 100 miles in dia.

Lazer
10-07-2000, 11:08 PM
You could cut $11,000/year MORE grass by spending only $2800 more.

2800/5 = $560.00/year increased acquisition cost.
$1500/year increased operation cost

Almost $9,000/year increased profits.

You CANNOT afford to operate 2ns rate equipment. (Even if it does have a CD player.)



BTW: The only people that buy GroundsMasters anymore is out-of-touch country clubs.

John DiMartino
10-08-2000, 12:16 AM
country clubs dont buy them either-school systems do for there fields-thats it-they scalp to much with a 72" for golf courses.The newest rotary s in are Jacobsen 11 ft 3 decks,full hydro ,zero turn nice unit big $$

scottb
10-08-2000, 12:18 AM
In my opinon its a nice machine.But what I really need to know is where can I get those acessories I cant find them in any of my mower catalogs. On the profit theory I still think the lower the overhead the higher the profit margin.

Lazer
10-08-2000, 12:58 AM
The higher the equipment performance, the higher the profit margin.

No company - lawncare or otherwise - earns respectable profits without cutting-edge equipment.

HOMER
10-08-2000, 01:13 AM
Lawrence, why didn't you pose in those pictures with your brand new mower? Would have been nice to see the man behind the Stone Empire! The days are getting shorter so you might want to add an overdrive to that machine!

Homer

bdemir
10-08-2000, 01:19 AM
I purchased one of my dixie choppers for 3500. and its a runner. There are lazers out there now for just under 4000. if your lucky. The point is there are affordable riders and they might cost a little more for gas and maybe 1k more per year to operate but you can cut at 5mph or cut at 9mph so you get to choice. Why is towing an extra 300 pounds an issue if you have a full size truck. A dixie weighs around 900 and i pull around two of them plus a 36" all day everyday and my chevy keeps on a pullin. Walkbehinds are good deals but a rider can cut so much grass and is so easy on an operator its no comparison. Turning around on a mower like that is not fun in tight areas. Just switching gears to reverse takes about as long as it would to get started on my next line in the opposite direction. In my opinion If you have one mower for everything then you need a rider to do it all.

lawrence stone
10-08-2000, 09:37 AM
Stone's rebuttal (to oppose by contrary proof) round two:

There is no way you can mow bluegrass athletic fields very 5 to 7 days to 2 inches that recieve 1/2 lb of N (25% scu)
every month in playing season at over 5 mph.

Thus performance (mph wise)is a moot point. All that really matters is the quaility of cut with one pass of the machine.

You cannot compare resid. or comm/industrial lawn care to sports fields. It's a whole new ballgame <g>.
Anyone can grow and mow turf at 3" that recieves no traffic.

As far as ture zero turn ability is concerned this is also a moot point in the wide open spaces.

Also anyone that put a lawnmower in reverse needs to take a state run couse on how to operate a lawn mower.

The cost factor: The traction unit (with over 1000 hours) of that machine as purchased in 1995 with a 52" deck. That 52" is still in use on another traction unit. So the traction unit as been depreciated so the operational cost is nill and what I consider to be the "happy hours".

That 62" deck was a http://www.turfquip.com grab with about 25 hours usage for $650 including travel costs to p/u.
With a $15 bracket that deck picks up the thatch in very early spring with a wright jumbo metal bagger w/leaf extension. The first baseball game is around March 20.

Now here is the part where your ztr guys fall flat on your face. When your 25hp 1 1/2 gal per hour unit fails your S out of luck. But the stoner is back up with an hour for I just change the deck over to one of the other two twin cylinder traction units in the fleet.

So in conclusion my 62" sports field mower provides the best quaility of cut, at the lowest price, is easy and the most cost effective in daily operation costs, is field servicable with cheap easily obtained spare parts and simple hand tools, is lighter, and makes less of a footprint on the tralier than any ZTR or groundsmaster type of mower.

Now I must go and load the faithful beast up and go to school. The Jr. high and JV have football games Monday and they played Friday so the chunks of sod will be flying out the discharge today.

If you want to make "real" money in this biz you need to work on most weekends. My one long weekend per year is about to start around Nov 25 and last until March 1, 2001.

[Edited by lawrence stone on 10-08-2000 at 12:48 PM]

bdemir
10-08-2000, 10:41 AM
Most of the buisness is in residential and commercial lawns. Not so much athletic fields to cut compared to everything else. Would be nice to be able to cut only fields.

[Edited by bdemir on 10-08-2000 at 01:43 PM]

jaclawn
10-08-2000, 01:35 PM
L.S. worst enemy: Artificial turf.

Lazer
10-08-2000, 07:56 PM
We have a term to refer to the hacks that "one pass and go" but I can't post it online.

The philosophy of "cut it slow and cut it once" is for amateurs.

Of course a 600lb. walk-behind w/ a 200lb operator and 13x6.50 tires places 29% MORE PSI on the already-weakened turf than a 1000lb ZTR with 24x12x12 tires.

Evan528
10-08-2000, 09:31 PM
lazer, Stop wasting your time! I Know ztr's are much more productive and so do 98 percent of the poeple on this forum. You can say whatever you want but stone will never give in and agree! I only wish someone lent him a ztr to use on his feilds for one day... hed never want to look at his old belt drive walkbehinds again.

lawrence stone
10-10-2000, 10:07 AM
lazer wrote:

>Of course a 600lb. walk-behind w/ a 200lb operator and 13x6.50 tires places 29% MORE PSI on the already-weakened turf than a 1000lb ZTR with 24x12x12 tires.

Hey Lazer you could get a job advising algore for the next debate with those numbers.

BTW the drive tires are 15 x 6.00 and the weight is over 6 wheels instead of 4.

Plus ZTR's do more damage when turning vs. a walk behind.

And finally production values are worthless when you already have that extra labor for lower speed operation figured into the job.

scottb
10-10-2000, 10:23 AM
Lawerence Stone
You are my hero.I have to agree with you although I would like to have a nice ZTR just because its a nice toy to have. I just cant cant see spending that kind of money. Down the road I may change my mind but with the walkbehind I can do more of the repairs myself,with the ZTR thats getting over my head. I say to each his own.

TLS
10-10-2000, 10:39 AM
Lawrence Stone,

Have been following your posts...forever. With the this post trying to lean you into a ZTR, I have one suggestion. You say that you have the "slow equipment" factored into your price.?? Then this is a perfect opportunity to upgrade to higher efficiency and reap the rewards. You can have a 2001 Lazer 72" LC 27hp for $8995.00. With a 72" you will be cutting 10" more per pass and with that LC you will be on a machine that will go 4000+hrs no problem. They weigh 1307lbs and go 10mph. With fields being flat and smooth, I couldn't see why 8-10mph would be a problem. The decks cut great and you will not have a HP problem. If its growing too quick, cut it 2x's as much as your cutting them now. I'll guarantee you'll still get done faster than your cutting it now. And as for when it breaks, my dealer ALWAYS has a loaner available. All depends on how soon you want to finish for the day!

Just my thoughts. I love spending other peoples money!

lawrence stone
10-12-2000, 10:23 AM
Well the $9k lawnmower sets off a chain reaction that will cost me over $30k.

If I buy a 72" lazer I will have to spend another $25k for a 12ft box truck or a new pickup and enclosed trailer.

I can't leave a new lazer sit out in the rain on a open trailer. But the rain and snow does not have any effect on my old belt drives. I just put a plastic bag over the engines b/4 winter.

BTW my main marketing this winter is to market my dethatching, aeration, fertilization and pesticide services to public and private schools on a monthly basis.
If they want me to mow they pay big time.

No matter what mower you have you still can't cut bluegrass at 2" over 6 mph and produce a quality product in one pass

KirbysLawn
10-12-2000, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by lawrence stone
I can't leave a new lazer sit out in the rain on a open trailer. But the rain and snow does not have any effect on my old belt drives. I just put a plastic bag over the engines b/4 winter.

Here ya go Stone: http://www.wechapps.com/Equipment_Covers/RiderZ/riderz.html

Greenkeepers
10-12-2000, 02:20 PM
Larry-

So you don't have anywhere to keep your equipment? I don't think that the stuff is going to melt if it gets wet here and there. Unless you let it sit on the trailer with Grocery store bags duck taped together all winter. When your belts get moisture in them and dry out they will become fragile and dry rotted and break. SO then you have to go back to the house (don't know about a garage) and switch mowers because you don't have enough room on your trailer or pulling capacity to pull a big 12' trailer.

I'm just busting your balls here but you talk the game but the more you talk the truth comes out and the dreaded "S" word seems to come to mind.

Mike
Greenkeepers

lawrence stone
10-12-2000, 05:13 PM
I have a storage unit that is full of spare equipment and motorcycles.

BTW I can bring 3 machines to the dance if needed.
A 44 in the bed of the truck and a 52 and a 62 on the trailer.

I had two of my lessor mowers known as the J.V. team out yesterday.

Here is a few pics of those "beasts":

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1209854&a=9343948

These machines will be the basis of my new full service monthly bill residential lawn care division starting spring 2002.

When it comes to mowing sites under 3/4 of a acre these machines (both are a $1600 investment)will out perform with a stand on sulky any ZTR of the same deck size.

Take notice that each machine has a waste basket made from a
old gallon pesticide jug and one has a lesco can caddy that holds a can sprayer. You steer with one hand and use the wand with the other.

Evan528
10-12-2000, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by lawrence stone
When it comes to mowing sites under 3/4 of a acre these machines (both are a $1600 investment)will out perform with a stand on sulky any ZTR of the same deck size.


Stone, bull sh*! MOst of my residentials are 1/2 to 3/4 of an acre. I mow 90 percent of them with my 62inch ztr. I can mow them (not trim or blow) in about 7-8 minutes a peice. Ive cut with a 52 walkbeihnd with a velke before... the productivity dosnt compare!

P.s. why dont your mowers stripe? do you have high lift blades on them? My z master with a 62inch deck stripes beutifly... i thought it was peculiar that your toros dont stripe.