Year round pricing??

[cutintime]

Hi everyone, I have a question on how to price a job on a monthly basis, when here in S.W. FL. the lawn will only need to be cut once every 2 or 3 weeks. I am very new at this and I only have 4 accounts now but I may have not considered the dry season. If I made a mistake on pricing the 4 accounts I already have, I can live with it, but I don't want to make that mistake over and over. Someone mentioned something about considering my $30 a week cut $40 in my last post, not sure what that meant. I do offer other services, (tree trimming, sprinkler repair) and I have gotten 2 one time deals for tree service but obviously you can't depend on one time deals. Any help would be greatly appreciated:)
Also, Thanks for the input on the guys house built on a hill. He never complained but this weeks mowing went much better.

One other thing, I may need to buy a new mower. Mine is in the shop. I am thinking about a toro zero turn rider. on sale for 3199.00 16hp 42in cut. Sound good? ?
Anyone know of a good place to buy a mower in SW FL.?? I'm not looking for the super duper I can cut three football fields in 20 minutes type mower, just a good for residential under 4 grand mower. Again, any help would be great:D

[pinnacle]

I'm not looking for the super duper I can cut three football fields in 20 minutes type mower
Mate can't give you any insight on your pricing but a 42'' Toro ain't going to cut footy feilds. (Esieki?)
Have you demod other mowers?
The Toros have a bad deck on them you should stay away from "Stamped metal decks" and look for something thats "Fully welded and fabricated" and nice and deep.

[mowerman90]

If you're in Ft Meyers and your only cutting every 2 to 3 weeks during the dry season your biggest concern is finding more accounts that are St Augustine grass and not Bahia. Starting out you've gotta take what you can get though. The Toro you mentioned is a homeowner model I believe and is junk for what you want to use it for. Your money would be better spent buying a good commercial mower, in order of cost:

1. Exmark walk behind 48"
2. Exmark Hydro walk behind 48"
3. either of the above with a sulky
4. Wright Stander 42 - 48"
3. Exmark ZTR 48"

Try to stay away from used equipment unless you know the person who's owned it and can prove the maintenance records.

I price all my jobs (cutting) on a monthly basis with a signed aggreement. Attached is a copy that you may use making any changes to suit your particular area.

[nelbuts]

Ok, I live 21 miles north of you so I may be able to help. The way I do it is this. Mine get about 36 cuts per year, some 38.
Know what you want per cut then just multiply it out.
Now if these are real nice homes some of the plants will need pruned every month during the months of May-Oct. Determine how long it is going to take you to do them and multiply it out. You will need a couple of touch ups from Nov. to April.
If you are going to do palms then decide how much for each palm and you may do them twice per year on the queens and once on the Sabals (after July). If you are going to spray the beds (get a lic. first I can help you with that) you will do it about every two weeks growing season, once per month rest of year. Fert. about three times per year, figure your cost per app. and what you want to make. Then add everything up and divide by 12. It is really that simple.

Now if someone wants you to just do it by the cut make sure you add about 10% - 15% on anything. Sure you will be high but you don't want the cuts unless you can help it. They take away from your annual customer time. I do four all year at any one time during the week. This week I have four. Starting in Sept. only two as I dropped them.

Hope this helps you. Sorry but I do not discuss money or my fees on this or any other site. What you want to make is up to you. Since you live in Ft. Myers I would concentrate on only a couple areas to avoid the traffic.

[nelbuts]

For a rider mower the Toro is ok. But I would look at a Scag Turf Tiger. One good dealer is Sarlo in Ft. Myers. My son is on the owners swim team. They have a good selection but no Scags (I think).

[Tbarchaser]

nelbuts... 36-38 cuts a year? I am on a 42 cut per year cycle in orlando. mar-oct every week and every other week in the winter.

What is you schedule like?

[lawnman_scott]

I was the one who told you that. I was just warning you, if you bid the lawn at $80 dont say something to lthe customer like, i cant do this for $20 a cut. Winter will come and they will only want to pay 1/2 because your only cutting once or twice during the month, afterall your the one who said $20 a cut. They forget summer, when you could be there 5 times in a given month. And tell them up front its every week in summer, and every other in winter. an easy way to do it is figure 40 cuts a year .

[cutintime]

Thanks, at 40 cuts per year, pricing is not so difficult now. I saw the light!!! I did make a mistake pricing my current 4 accounts, but like I said I can live with 4. I'm glad I asked before I got 40.
Nelbuts, you said something about getting a license to spray. How coan you help? I need all the help I can get. Ha! Ha!
Now I am telling the home owner that I will pull any large weeds and if they want round up or something sprayed they will have to do it themselves.

[logan]

I don't know why people in Florida seem to price their yards at 35-42 cuts a year. Why not bill your customers for 52 weeks ayear and make more money? I tell all my customers that I will come out every week and cut it if needed. Every week in the summer and every other week in the winter depending on the weather. If nothing else, I will edge the concrete and blow off the leaves. I think there is more money to be made that way. For example if you think that a yard if worth $30, then at 42 cuts that equals $105. Why not 52 visits and make $130? I don't get it.

[sniggly]

Cuts:
I base my service agreements on 38 cuts per year. Every week in April, May, June, July, August, September, and October. Then every other week the other months. I also specify with great clarity that cutting the lawn MAY NOT happen in the winter months because it doesn't grow.

Toro:
Toro makes a good mower BUT you really need to think about this purchase. That mower you mention sells at the local big box store right? The blade speed on that mower is not going to be what it needs to be....and like another poster here said if you are cutting Bahia you might want to reconsider. I will go so far as to say that if you are cutting Bahia with it YOU WILL HAVE TO ALWAYS CUT EVERYTHING TWICE. We call it wire grass up here. I run an Exmark Metro HP 36 with mulching deck and still sometimes have to run over Bahia twice (especially if it's Pensacola Bahia).

I just started my business in June of this year and have 12 accounts.....5 of which are on service agreements. I push service agreements like a car salesman. In my view service agreements are vital to both you and the customer. YOU because you don't starve in the winter, and THE CUTSOMER because it gives you time to do some things in the yard during the winter that you don't have time to do in the summer (like trimming back those low hanging oak limbs that always hit you in the face). It especially works well this way when you go out in the winter and it doesn't need to be mowed. Makes the customer think you care...and you should.

Seriously - take a closer look at a commercial grade walk behind. I put Jungle Wheels on the back of my Exmark and I can mow St. Augustine in 4th gear. I decreased my 'turf time' by 22% (and believe me I keep track of it).

[sniggly]

Tada............

[nelbuts]

They will get 40 cuts this year due to early spring rains. However, with our once per week water restrictions, and the drought we had the past four years sometimes it was mid may before they were cut every week.

Here is the way it has worked for most yards, not every yard as some are better than others.

Jan. 1 cut (every three weeks)
Feb. 1 cut " " "
March 2 cuts (2 weeks)
April 2 -3 cuts
May 3-4 cuts
June weekly (4)
July weekly (4)
August weekly (4)
Sept. weekly (4)
Oct. (3) fert. last week of month
Nov. 2 cuts
Dec. 2 cuts

I usually take my vacation Thanksgiving week so if you start the every two week rotation the last week of Oct. I can get Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year week off.

Now sometimes they will get more. Sometimes less.

You tend to get a little more rain on the east coast in the spring than us in SW coast. Although this August may be the wetest in history. We are already over 15"

[nelbuts]

Logan, I will tell you why not on 52 cuts. Cause I don't cut them 52 times. I do not go to my customers every week in the winter. I take time off and still make the same money. If I want to schedule extra work then I make money, If I want to sleep in then I make money. The fact is what job can you do where you work 9 months of the year and make what we make?


I have been doing this for 19 years and must say I and my clients are quite happy with our arrangement.

Oh and for blowing off the leaves. Hahahahaha. You havent been here. Very few trees with leaves on my properties. Or any others for that matter.

[lawnman_scott]

I agree with nelbuts but.......... I cant stand the buccaneers, but thats another story. Its rediculous in my opinion to go every week when there is no need to. Just room for more problems if your only there 3 minutes and they see that.

[logan]

Nelbuts, I guess that makes sense, and who can argue with 19 years of success? I think that I am looking at the money aspect.
In the example I used, I make 25 more dollars a month or with say even 20 extra dollars a month, 30 customers equals 7200 dollars a year. In the winter I am able to squeeze 4 days work into 2 and still take vacations. Sometimes I call my customers and let them know that i won't be there that week and they don't pay that week. But, like I said, many of us have a system that we know works and if it does then stick to it. I was just wondering why you did it that way, thanks for explaining.

[brucec32]

Originally posted by logan
I don't know why people in Florida seem to price their yards at 35-42 cuts a year. Why not bill your customers for 52 weeks ayear and make more money? I tell all my customers that I will come out every week and cut it if needed. Every week in the summer and every other week in the winter depending on the weather. If nothing else, I will edge the concrete and blow off the leaves. I think there is more money to be made that way. For example if you think that a yard if worth $30, then at 42 cuts that equals $105. Why not 52 visits and make $130? I don't get it.

Perhaps it's because not every customer is a sucker and realizes that if their lawn doesn't need mowing weekly in the winter, they would prefer to not pay you for something they don't need. Unless one is the only operation in town, you just might find yourself getting underbid consistently with this strategy, or having high turnover as customers "wise up". Your above example is a 24% higher monthly price. That's enough to matter for most folks. Some can pull it off. But charging $25/cut for 52 weeks is not the same as getting $28/cut for 40 weeks. You're doing more work, too.


Besides, who wants to be in business 52 weeks a year? Talk about burnout.

[logan]

Most of my customers want their yards to look good every week. In order for me to drive out to their house I need to charge them for that. And I don't mind doing a little extra in the winter. I may plant a shrub or 2 or take care of the shrubs that continue to grow all year long. Like I said, we all have our system and if it works then tha's a good thing. I don't mind working all year, thats what I'm used to and it's not full time either. If my customers decide to drop me after they "wise up" then I don't want them as customers anyway, ther are plenty of good customers out there that appreciate a weekly service.

[nelbuts]

logan here would not work. I take care of million dollar homes and if I said their price was based on 52 weeks then they would laugh me off the block. 98% of my accounts are on water, they have 2500- 4000 sq. ft. homes on 10,000 sq. ft. lots. When it rains I cut. But the shrubs here are pruned according to their type. We have many plants that will not make it where you live and when it gets down to about 40 degrees they completly shut off. I can prune in Nov. and they will not need touched until Feb. Sorry you have to work all year. I will be sure to call you while I am deer hunting.

[nelbuts]

Maybe you missed the point here. I charge for everything I do on a property. I just add it up and divide by 12. Ten palms at $20 bucks costs them 16.67 per month. I clean them once per year.
Three ferts at 45.00 cost them 11.25 per month. I do not nickel and dime them to death. Also, I never take payment in advance.

[stangman]

Hey Mowerman what other services do you include in your monthlies?

[sniggly]

Hey Nelbuts...what are you putting on the turf down there? I am guessing you buy in bulk. Most of the large operations up here bow to Lesco (I use it too). I have been charging considerably more than you but my ferts usually have pest or weed in them also.

[logan]

I have only neen doing this for about 7 years total, 2 of them on my own. I use the same ideas that my other employers use. One of them charged 150 a month and up for mow, edge,trim,blow, weeds in beds and shrubs. The other charged 160 and up for the same thing. Fertilizer and everything else was extra. I think that this web site is ideal for learning about different ways of doing things. I see that you are definately making a good living doing things the way you do Nelbuts and bruce32, after all how could you still be in business after 19 years. I don't have the million dollars homes that you have (well I do have one) so perhaps that makes a difference. My 36 yards that I do take about 30 minutes tops to mow edge etc and do one other thing (shrubs in front, palms etc) if that is in their agreement. I won't tell you about my prices, but know that i make a very good living in my 3.5-4 days of work. As always, I don't want to get into a heated argument about our businesses but i like to know what others are doing so maybe I can steal some of your ideas.:D

[rotgg]

we only do yearly deals and they may range from 150 up to 5000 per month

[ProMo]

I don't know why people in Florida seem to price their yards at 35-42 cuts a year. Why not bill your customers for 52 weeks ayear and make more money?

I serviced all of my propertys 51x until last year when i switched to 42x raised my rates and notified all of my customers during the summer I had one customer that wasnt sure she liked the idea but she later called and said her lawn looked better than the one across the street that was still being mowed for leaves etc. every week. I thought for sure i would lose some accounts but instead they were calling for extra work they wanted done. seems like im making more money by working less

[brucec32]

Originally posted by logan
Most of my customers want their yards to look good every week. In order for me to drive out to their house I need to charge them for that. And I don't mind doing a little extra in the winter. I may plant a shrub or 2 or take care of the shrubs that continue to grow all year long. Like I said, we all have our system and if it works then tha's a good thing. I don't mind working all year, thats what I'm used to and it's not full time either. If my customers decide to drop me after they "wise up" then I don't want them as customers anyway, ther are plenty of good customers out there that appreciate a weekly service.

Aha....part time. That means you can cherry pick and take the best accounts and also won't burn out like someone doing it 40 plus hours a week. It gets harder though, when you need 50 or 100 accounts, not 12 or 20.

As for it "looking good every week", I think the other posts' point was that the lawn and property literally isn't changing some weeks and looks good anyway. Nothing is growing, no leaves to fall, and nothing to do. Sure if there is work to do you can come out every week year round.

I mow at $800,000 homes where I get told "that's enough" when things wind down in December here. So I wouldn't categorize someone as a non "good" customer because they are aware that their property needs nothing done. I do hit them a couple of times as needed over the winter for shrub work, cleanups, sometimes mulching, etc....but at least here it just doesn't require service year round.

My objection was to the hint in your post that somehow it's patently obvious to charge more and make 52 trips out and these people are insane not to be doing that. That's pretty obviously the way to go if the market demands it. But from what I'm reading, in North Florida and northwards, it usually doesn't. It'd be hard here to "fill" 22 weeks a year when grass isn't in need of mowing. 4-6, sure. But not every week.

In a business full of part time companies, it'd be hard for an operator to demand and get full pay 52 weeks a year if there are similarly qualified companies willing to do it 32 or 42 weeks a year and charge a correspondingly lower price.

More power to you if you can get it, but that's not the reality for many of us. If one wants to spend 10% of their gross on advertising, answer phone calls all day long screening out "seasonal only" customers, give 80 bids a year to get 10 new customers, or has found a low-competition area, then they can do it.

[brucec32]

Originally posted by nelbuts
Maybe you missed the point here. I charge for everything I do on a property. I just add it up and divide by 12. Ten palms at $20 bucks costs them 16.67 per month. I clean them once per year.
Three ferts at 45.00 cost them 11.25 per month. I do not nickel and dime them to death. Also, I never take payment in advance.

So if there is X amount of real work to be done on a property, and operator A does it in 42 weeks a year and charges $50/hour for it, and you're doing the same amount of real work and charging the same rate, isn't it really the same thing? Except you're making 10 extra trips out in the Winter and operator A is just adding the non-mowing work while he's there mowing.

I can't imagine even St. Augustine getting enough growth to need mowing weekly in January in all but the southernmost areas, so it's pretty apparent that those extra visits are for extra work, not mowing. So it all winds up equal in the end if people charge the same per-hour rate.