loading salt into large trucks

[John Allin]

Alan made reference, last night on a different thread, about using an auger arrangement to treat his salt piles with magic. I asked about such an arrangement to load trucks instead of using a skid steer and/or backhoe. We just purchased a township truck (international) with a large salt box. We had to get rid of our L9000 salt truck as it was at the end of its days. This new one is just slightly higher than the old one and our 853 Bobcat is fully extended to dump salt into the hopper. The other trucks are all lower and easy to load.

Question: Does anyone on the forum load salt trucks now with a conveyer type arrangement ?? If so, can you give me some help, or some pic's that will assist us and give us some direction in constructing (or purchasing) something to do this?? Any experience with loading times and efficiency??

[diggerman]

John never used a conveyor before but we have used those concrete road dividers to make a ramp.The truck pulls along the barrier then the skid can drive up the ramp to the side of the truck.Conveyors are nice but getting a truck loaded properly can be a trick and take a while.The one thing that I have thought about for salt is a grain auger because they are available and cheap,but I don,t think they will do sand and might not do the salt.

[iowastorm]

John; I believe that the new G series Bobcats will load a large dumptruck. My 1999 773 will anyway, assuming the truck's side rails haven't been built up too high.

[John Allin]

We CAN load it with the 853, but my guys were making comments about not being able to pile it up as high as before (in the hopper). The truck will most definitely handle any weight WE put on it and I don't want to see him leave here with a 'level' load.

I would think that a conveyer would be much slower than the skid steer - and I agree that loading with a conveyer might not be real exacting (as compared to using something with a front bucket). I'm hoping we will find someone who is doing it to know how they like it. If we can't find someone already doing it with a conveyer - then I presume THAT will be answer enough.

We did talk about a ramp arrangement, and we would do that before purchasing another loader just to load salt.

By the way, we are going to remove the front and wing plow as we have no use for it (we don't do roads). We're going to make the wing into a pusher and probably just scrap the one-way from the front.

[Chuck Smith]

John,

With as much property as you have, you should build a loading dock. It would make loading any material easier. Do you have salt, mulch, and top soil piles at your yard?

Imagine how much more mulch you could fit into a truck if you compact it with a loader as you fill the truck. I mean where the operator can actually "see" what he's doing. Just that alone could speed up the loading process.

I was thinking along the lines of a 3 sided "bay" a truck could back into, and be loaded. You could take a chunk out of an existing hillside, and level off the area around it, or build one from scratch on flat ground. The flat ground would require fill to build, but that's plentiful and cheap in most areas. I think a bay would be more versatile than a ramp. Make it large enough to fit your biggest truck in. It would only have to be 3 or 4' "deep" to really help loading. You could make it deeper if you need to.

Just a thought,


~Chuck

[John Allin]

And a good thought at that.

Gotta think about it. We have more than enough room to do it, and more than enough fill to make it happen. I would like to continue filling the salt truck inside and not outside - but we might be able to make it work inside too.

Let me work on that one for a few hours. I gotta think about this one...

Thanks.

[Chuck Smith]

After more thought, you could even load other things easier, that you couldn't load before. Things that require a "sling" or dangling on a chain. Where the loader couldn't go high enough to facilitate loading on flat ground, with the truck "in a hole" it could. Especially loading into taller trucks. It would also work in reverse, for unloading items. You could transfer equipment from one truck to another easier too, without the loader at full extension....

I also considered having such a loading area inside, but it's usefullness has to outweigh the valuable indoor storage space.

~Chuck

[John Allin]

We have outside loading docks now, on the landscape installation building - but the salt, salt trucks, and the skid steer to load the salt trucks, is stored in the landscape maintenance building in winter. We store screened topsoil in that same area in summer. I might be able to cut the concrete floor and make a depressed area (maybe just a few feet depressed) where the trucks drive through (we have overhead doors at both ends of the building) so that the salt trucks (and topsoil trucks) could be loaded out - but still use that depressed area (if it was made wide enough) to park truck/trailer combinations (the landscape maintenance truck/trailers stay loaded overnight) in summer too.

Hmmmm........

I think you might be onto something here.

[plowking35]

What we do is pretend the snow is salt, and let mother nature fill our hoppers. Both are white, and the customer doesnt know the difference. They pay us the spread the snow on their lots, and then recall us to plow the snow we just spread. Its a vicious circle that has doubled revenue the last 2 years running.
Anyone else tried this?
Dino

[diggerman]

See I knew it wasn't all SIMA that made you all that extra money.

[iowastorm]

It's funny you bring that up Dino, because in dry winters, see just set up snow making equipment in the parking lots of our customers and let it snow about 18". Ofcourse, we only do this on our T&M jobs.

[Greenman2ooo]

Iowastorm-

Don't they sell $30 lift tickets to ski on that same stuff??? If you could get accounts on hillsides.... :D

[plowking35]

Instead we go to the local ice rinks and have the Zambonis dump into the spreaders and we use that.
BTW the snow in the spreader idea was a result of a round table at a SIMA symposium.
And John thought we all were ethical.
HA

[n y snow pros]

Dino you truly are a card you must be snow desperate

[GeoffDiamond]

John, I wouldn't scrap the plow set up on the International. The wing maybe, but i would look for a revesable blade for the truck. Granted new they will run you around 6,000 plus. However if a loader even went down, you could keep moving snow with that truck.

Geoff

[cat320]

When i was working for a town they had a pit dug out next to the salt shed and the L8000 would back down into it and that would give us better look at the hopper even with the loader.

[John Allin]

All good ideas (even Dino's).

[JCurtis]

John,

If you have enough space in side (and if I rember back to the first post, you're loading with a skid steer?)
How much additional Height do you need to load the new salt truck?

Build a concrete ramp with a flat area at the top of the ramp that will allow your loder operator to see clearly enough load and yet spin the loader around on the flat if he has too to come down the ramp ( instead of backing down the ramp), You can then also use the ramp to load other heavy material on to flat beds.

[diggerman]

John I just thought of something why don't you try a high dump bucket on you skid they will give you around three foot of extra dump height.

[diggerman]

John I sort of found what I am talking about,these pictures show a rubber tired loader but I am pretty sure they make them for skids the example bucket is at http://www.rocklandmfg.com/rollout_buckets.htm

[John Allin]

Digger,

I sent them an email asking about skid steer high dump buckets. We'll see what they come back with.

[diggerman]

You might also check with you bobcat guy.

[Alan]

John, I ran across an ad in Pro Magazine for a conveyor system that might work for you. It's made by Patz, I remember seeing them at L'ville when I was there in '99. Unfortuanately there is no address or phone listed, just a number for a reader inquiry card. This is the same company that makes, or used to make, barn cleaners. So, maybe if there is anyone in your phone book under Ag Equipment or soms such thing and they are a Patz dealer you could chase down the conveyor information through them. It's listed in the ad as "Patz Model 4510 Handy Conveyor"

PS: I just went through our phone book and came up blank.

[SLSNursery]

John - We don't use a conveyer for salt, but I have used one for firewood before. It makes a nice cone shape pile, and without moving the truck, it might not work for a long box. It also seems like it would take a while, and be messy especially if outdoors. I would think this type of equipment might be too specialized and it would be cheaper to buy a bigger loader.

Before we were comfortable with our loaders, I made a setup with a ramp and the large concrete blocks set up like an outside loading dock. However we don't use it (and didn't really finish it off) because now a couple of the loaders will reach larger trucks. Here are some options we were looking at, and the pro's/cons:

1. Pigpen - I was in one of these three sided set ups at our lime distributor. Their set up, which seems most effective and versatile is a 40+ foot long U shaped (indoor)loading dock. It allows the forklift to load a flatbed from all sides, and would certainly allow loading a large hopper if it were outside in a yard. This setup would work well during other seasons if you wanted to drive a forklift or your bobcat into or onto a truck body to unload pallets or other items. A simple ramp or loading dock might work, but the three sided approach removes any variables that certain truck bodies might have because you can load or unload from either side. Might be costly to construct, especially in the short haul. If you convert your drivethrough, give plenty of thought to the space on the sides for turning radius, storage, etc.

2. Our mulch distributor from Canada always photographs their load before it leaves the yard. They have what looks like a 10' high wall at least the length of a tractor and trailer. This allows them to dump down into a box, and seems pretty effective (as long as you don't slide off!!!). I can scan a photo if you would like to see it. You could probably make a big giant ramp with a platform like this by using large concrete blocks and getting some fill, or demo scraps to construct the ramp and platform. Just don't make the ramp too steep, and allow for a flat portion at the top for where the loader will sit when dumping out. This would be very inexpensive to construct.

3. We looked at an electric/hydraulic loading dock that could lift 12-14,000 pounds from the ground up to dock height. It would be slow, but safe. My idea was more for a forklift. It could be lifted to any truck height driven in, and then lowered back down to the ground. The platform was large, about 10x12, so the loader/forklift would fit easily and securely. A device like this is also more versatile than a fixed dock or ramp. In your application, from a stock pile, this could be an adjustable platform, with a ramp leading to it, perhaps during the winter giving you the extra couple of feet you want. It could be used as a regular loading platform during the spring/summer/fall when other materials are coming into the yard.

I realize that none of these are conveyer types, but I had all of them on my mind, so I thought I would share them, esp. in case anyone else is looking for ideas. I hate to limit myself to one structure only for loading one item. That is why I am thinking about all of the options for myself down the road.

Of course by the time you finish deciding its probably easier, and most likely cheaper to buy a slightly larger loader, like a center articulating 1 yard machine (I saw a used kubota R-400 on E-bay for about 13k). But then, if you are like me, you realize that any backhoe can load too, so you buy a backhoe, but then you send that out onto jobs, so you get a bigger wheel loader for the yard, and so on, and so on, and so on...