who pays for this mistake?

[bobbygedd]

ok, a customer calls, and wants stone put in. u measure, do the math, u tell them they need 10 ton, at $140 a ton. halfway through the job, u say, uh o....something is wrong. u muffed the numbers up, some how, some way, u screwed up. u need 13 ton to finish the job. do u tell the client u need extra stone, and it will cost more? or do u just buy it, finish, and not say a word?

[BSDeality]

$420 is pretty difficult to "eat it" yourself. I'd try to explain the need for more stone... "we used a bit more than than expected due to the ground being so wet, we wanted a firm base...." I guess next time i'd try to leave something in the estimate stating qty of material can fluxate 25% or something.

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

Be honest with them. Tell them you goofed. Most of the time, they will understand and pay the extra $$$$. If they are tight wads, then you're stuck, and bite the bullet. Good luck

[Gr grass n Hi tides]

Come right out and tell them you made a bad calculation on material. I don't think this is a big deal. Most people are fairly reasonable & they'll understand. I don't think anyone would expect you to eat the cost of 3 ton of rock.

[Epic lawn care]

Did you give them a "bid" or an "estimate" ? If a bid, its your mess up and you eat the cost.. Estimate, well thats why they call it an estimate......cause you estimate the cost.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

what kinda of stone cost 140 a ton is that installed?

[proenterprises]

epic hit it on the head. estimate is estimate, even if it was a bid, when you submitted it i would have put in a little discloser explaining that ground conditions etc could effect material quantity. so you dont make this mistake again bobby

[locutus]

spread it out thinner and call it good. just kidding, if this is someone youve been working with they shouldnt be that rigid on an honest miscalculation.

[Expert Lawns]

I agree that $400+ of rock is a lot to eat. Tell them whatever you feel they need to know, then simply add "If you would like it done right the first time, I need to add more rock, which will be an extra $xx.xx Maybe you can eat some of it, oh, say $100 or so, after all it is your fault for miscalculating. Good luck, let us know what they say and how it turns out.

[Turfdude]

Do the job for the quoted figure & use it as a learning experience. It's not like your losing the $140/ton, only the materials and some labor. If you told them that its $140/ton and will be approximately 10 ton +- 1 ton, then thats another story. You were off 30% on YOUR estimate. That's too much of a mistake for the client to make up. Maybe they could pay for the materials, but thats all.

Good luck

[bobbygedd]

3/4 inch red stone, our cost $30 a ton.

[locutus]

hey bobby, my previous suggestion is looking better all the time isnt it?

[Black Water]

I always add in a fudge factor.

[bobbygedd]

ok, whats the verdict? the extra materials will cost me $90 plus maybe $20 in labor, 5 in gas, thats $115. eat it, or tell them i goofed, they need to pay up?

[Runner]

Actually, that is what I was going to suggest,- as a bartering lever, anyway. Explain it to them, and explain that the estimate for spreading that many ton. If they want to give yiou a hard time about it, explain to them that you can do for that, with the first quoted tonage, but it isn't going to be spread right, because it will be too thin. I think they'll change their tune.

[Gr grass n Hi tides]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
3/4 inch red stone, our cost $30 a ton.

I was thinking it was $140 for the stone, only. Heck at that rate if they beef then I agree with Turfdude - just have them pay for materials. Still, I'd approach & say sorry I made an honest mistake and see what happens.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

if u gave a price and they signed off on it i would pry eat the difference i would rather have a happy customer telling friends that i did a great job rather than i messed up and then tired to stick them with a bigger bill than quoted

[bobbygedd]

well, im glad u guys feel thay way. NOW, ill tell what really happened. my measurements ALWAYS come out absolutely perfect, down to the last pebble. this time, the lady was talkin to me, following me around the yard, not shutting up for one minute. what happened was, i measured one area, and wrote it down twice. i estimated 13 ton of stone, gave a price, she said go with it. when we went to do the job, halfway through, i realized i screwed up. i only needed 10 ton, not 13, but the price i charged was for 13 ton. NOW, what do you do? finish the job, take your check and leave, or explain that u estimated wrong, and the bill is $320 LOWER?

[DUSTYCEDAR]

that is called a tip u just made u-self a little extra that all

[bobbygedd]

i meant $420 cheaper

[leadarrows]

I haul stone by the load. I charge a flat rate on the haul charge based on a full load. I have a single axle and can haul 7 tons. I charge X amount for the haul same-amount for 1-7 tons. I figure I have the same amount of time involved and other over head such as were and tear and fuel doesn't change that much. Then I mark up the stone a X percent to increase profits and pay myself to sit down and send the check to the stone company.
All my stone jobs are given as estimates and I explain that tail gating stone can have less than exact results. Therefore I can only give an estimates. I have never had it be a problem for the customer. Drive ways aren't going to figure more than a load or two different at worst. You fall right into that area of shortage. I vote explain it and charge for it. Served up with a great big bobbygled smile. :)

I assume that 140.00 per ton is a typo. Thats close to what i get a load for crushed stone.
What type of material are we talking about anyway?

Ok wait I think I get it thats labor too? How much would you be out of pocket to honor the bid? That might make a difference to my answer.

[leadarrows]

Dag gone it I posted what I said come back and it's all a waste of time. I have got to learn to type faster.

[locutus]

honestly, i believe things like that have away of catching up with you. give her a refund. not doing so could cost you more than that in the future

[Gr grass n Hi tides]

Give her the refund, dude.

[locutus]

do the right thing and bill her lower. i believe things like that have a way oof comming back to haunt you. could cost you way more in the future.

[Navig8r]

Why not split the refund?

Give her back $210..... she's happy as can be.. when does a contractor give back $$$ after a job 'cause it was "less than expected"?

AND you make $210....

[GLAN]

If you were short and you had a firm price. I would go for adding at least 1 more ton.

Now you over estimated and it came out less. And you want to know what we would do?.....:eek:


Now that depends.

I can reduce the job accordingly
I can do nothing
I can split the difference
I can reduce it by 1, 2 or 3 yards


You will do only one of those.
As long as your customer is happy with the job and your happy, then we're all happy.....:D :blob3:

[leadarrows]

The baker gets fat by eating the left overs not by throwing it away. :)

Oh heck give enough of it back to buy you some good word of mouth and get that woman of yours something nice for putting up with you with the rest. :):):)

[JimLewis]

I give a price at bid time and I stick to that price unless something majorly unexpected comes up (e.g. there's a huge septic tank right in the way of where we need to plant, or something else I couldn't have anticipated. And I have a clause in our contract for unexpected things like this.) But other than something unexpected, I will always eat it if I screwed up and underestimated something. ALWAYS. I take it as a learning lesson.

I also realize more often than not I OVER-estimate and end up using less of the product or less labor than I expected. And I sure as heck am not going to lower my price in that case. So why would I raise my price in the opposite case?

Sometimes you make a little more than expected on a job - sometimes a little less. And as you learn from your mistakes, it ends up being to your advantage more often than not.

If you're one of those who disagrees with me and thinks you should ask for more money, that's fine. But be consistent. You'd better be giving money back every time you over-estimate from now on. Fair's fair. Are you really going to do that every time???

[JimLewis]

OH! I hadn't read all of the replies before I posted that last bit. I see later down this thread you say that you actually over-estimated, is that correct? Ok. Well, my advice remains the same, still. I always stick to my bid - whether we come in under budget, over budget, or just even. So in this case, I'd be bringing in an extra $420! That happens all the time. Nothing wrong with that - again - as long as you're consistent.

Ethically, you gotta choose one way or another. Either you're going to

A) ALWAYS refund money when you overestimate labor or materials AND ALWAYS ask for more money when you underestimate.

OR

B) You're going to never refund or ask for more.

There are lots of disadvantages to choice A:

* You're constantly changing the deal on people
* If you ask for more, there's no guarantee people are going to give it to you.
* You don't ever get to gain from doing a job faster than expected or by finding materials for less than you expected.
* You risk pissing people off by changing the deal

The only disadvantage with choice B is once in a while you will have to eat a loss. But as I explained before, that shouldn't be a problem. On avg. you'll be OVER estimating, and gaining $.

[mdvaden]

As I just told Lewis yesterday, I accidentally omitted figuring in about 1 pallet of Rocky Mountain Quartzite into my proposal on the last landscape project.

(the one I posted a photo of in the edging material related post)

That was about 1 ton at $350 per ton.

Never mentioned it to the customer.

It was about 5% of the material total.

I've considered this a form of spanking oneself.

10 years ago, I bid as if nothing would ever go wrong. Now I bid to allow for a few things going haywire.

For example, 2 years ago, I dropped a big branch on an old mailbox. Replacing it with a shiny new $7 mailbox made the row of 4 boxes look weird, so I bought 3 more, and just told the neighbors they now had new boxes.

That was $7 that I had to put out, but $40 that I chose to put out. Now I bid high enough to be able to absorb a cracked fence board, or a minor irrigation repair.

[mdvaden]

The apparent math discrepancy in my last post is due to new wood and hardware I used in additon.

[Rustic Goat]

OK Bobby, what I'd really do would be refund a little and consider the rest profit.

If you need a reason, it's her fault for not leaving you alone, right!

[bobbygedd]

well rusty goat, if it makes u sleep better to blame her, then you do just that. yes, i made a mistake, hey, in 38 years, im bound to make ONE mistake, aint i? i mean, between the mouth babbling on , and on, and on, and on....and those freakin utters hangin off her, i admit i was a bit distracted. i like what jimlewis said. make a choice but be consistant. thats gonna be my golden rule from now on, starting , YESTERDAY. the $140 per ton was her final cost for, material, delivery, labor to install, and cleanup after ourselves. btw, wheelbarrowing 20,000 lbs of stone, is no picnic.

[kris]

before I read your reply further down my advise would be that in no way,shape or form should you ask for more money... you goofed up you eat it... same goes for the extra material you saved ...gravy for you. Nothing pisses people off more than changing the price halfway through the job ... there are exceptions that Jim touched on. Your price sounds good btw. ...how many man hours did you figure?

[Turfdude]

"some days you eat the bear - some days the bear eats you" lesrn from your mistakes and it will make you a better man!!

[dan deutekom]

Jim Lewis has got it right. I always add 10% f*** up factor to my bids so that I pay for those little things you break, or forget. As you get more experienced that 10% just adds to the profit. A firm price is the price. An estimate is something else though.

[bobbygedd]

i figured 13 ton of stone in about 10 hrs. 2 guys. turf, hope you read the "true" story, the first was just a test, and most of u failed. the bear didnt eat me, the bear never eats me.

[MowinChic]

Situation #1-If you underestimated, I would explain to this to her and only charge for the money you are going to pay out: rock+labor+gas, etc...as you stated would be about $120.00. Eat your profit for your mistake.

Situation #2-If you overestimated, I would refund at least part of the money. Maybe just the price of material or other. This has great advantages in some situations. If she needs an estimate for other work, and yours is a little higher than expected, she will feel you have been very honest before, gave her a break and more than likely choose you to do work for her again. Also, women and word of mouth is a very good thing. She could tell all the neighbors about the good job you did and the fact that she felt you were honest is always a huge plus.

I always look for future money, instead of quick cash at the time of payment. It's nice to have that extra today, but who knows about tomorrow?

[WhySod]

This is unrelated, but it still applies - kind of. I was a landscaper in the mid 1970's so I can relate to this post. I've been hydro-mulching residential size lawns since 1992. About 90% of the time I take a customer's word for the size of the job. If I think the job is different from what the customer says, I'll tell him before I start.

Then it's his call. I'll measure it and charge whatever I come up with and drive away with no hard feelings if he thinks it's too much. Or, I'll charge him according to the materials I use with a maximum of what my "educated guess" is. About 90% of the time they tell me to just shoot it if they know it won't go over...

If I start shooting it before I decide it's bigger than it looks, it's my fault, not theirs and I eat the difference. If it's just $20 smaller than I figured, I figure it all evens out in the end. If it's a lot t smaller, I make them very happy when I ask for the check. Truth is though, I think I win a lot more than I loose.

But there's two things I won't do. I won't skimp on materials to make the job "come out." And I won't compromise on my price per s/f. If they want a "deal" they can call a competitor who will be happy to adjust the application rate to make it come out... And I have no problem telling them that.

Fair works both ways. You don't get 80% of your work from referrals by screwing your customers. And you don't stay in business by letting them screw you. And I've got an immaculate record with the BBB over the last 11 years, especially for a guy that "paints the ground green and drives away."

Anyway that's how I see the situation. Rick

[Doogiegh]

You put down an estimate for Materials and Labor. You gave her a price, she said ok, you did the work, and it's all good. If she didn't like your price, then she could of called someone else to do the work. So I'm guessing here that at $140 a ton, and you said 13 tons, this is a $1820 job that she said "OK" to, when it COULD of been a $1400 job.. Apparently your price of $1820 wasn't "too high" so take it as is and move on.

What should really be posted is a picture of the job and how much others would BID at moving 10 tons of stone, distance involved, etc..... If the average for the job is $2000 and her price given was $1820 and yet your price (due to miscalculation) is $140, then you know your pricing is too low....

I'd keep the money in full since she was cool with the $1820 price and go on to the next job. WHo knows, the next one might not be as profitable for you.

Gary

[Mueller Landscape Inc]

Maybe I missed it but did you have 13 yards delivered and paid for? If you did, then you lost money.

[bobbygedd]

ummm, gary, OF COURSE I KEPT THE MONEY, u know i have no shame. just wanted to see what the rest of u fine gentlemen would have done. no i didnt have 13 ton delivered. i carry 2 ton at a time on my truck, the stone place was only like 5 min from the jobsite, and i figured i would do like 7 ton the first day, then i had other things to do, then i would cum back and finish in a couple days. but when i realized my mistake, i just finished that day.