automatics?

[finnegan]

I know I'm gonna open a can of worms with this one,but whats better automatic or standard transmissions?

[JCurtis]

Having driven vehicles with both types of Transmissions over the years, I would say that an automatic on a truck that has been setup for plowing has to be the way to go.

Those clutches wreak havoc on old knees!!!!

[Chuck Smith]

And plowing wreaks havoc on clutches!

~Chuck

[diggerman]

No can of worms here auto is the way to go,most I think will agree.But hey if a stick is what you got that will work, not near a relexing.But most who have been plowing very long have done it,and thats why we say autos the way to go.

[John Allin]

I would guess that if you are the one driving the truck, then a clutch might not be too bad (except for the knees and the thigh muscle that ends up being the size of your chest). If you "own" it, and drive it, you'll probably not abuse the clutch. I had a standard the first 9 years of plowing, and didn't burn a clutch out once.

However, if you're going to put an employee in that standard tranny truck - plan on a clutch a year. That had been our experience, and now we only purchase automatics for employees who plow.

Additionally, let's face it. Going in reverse is a large part of the plowing operation of any vehicle (other than road plowing). So, I am of the opinion that you cannot back up anywhere near as fast with a standard as you can with an automatic - however, some guys will argue with you on that point.

[iowastorm]

Automatic all the way! Good thing about a manual is though, that they only go out right in the middle of a snowstorm and the part won't be available for 2 days and the shop is backed up for 2 weeks. John: Does the video show you how to plow in reverse? Maybe an advanced subject for the next video.

[GeoffDiamond]

Auto all the way, if the truck is going to plow. The F 650 that plowed last year and it was an auto. My driver an older guy and said big truck needs a stick, I said try it. He tried it and liked it, he thought you would need a standard to shift through the gears (which can be done on auto, anyway).

Granted my L9000s are all sticks, but then again they don't plow.

Geoff

[cat320]

Yes Auto is they way to go,but if your doing highways stick would be fine.I prefer auto when i plow when I plowed for the town i had the clean up job small roads intersections and after all that plow the roads and if i had a stick my leg would be dead.

[John Allin]

No Storm, it's not in the video. But it IS an advanced technique. Ya see, you gotta turn around in the seat, put your butt up on the steering wheel, snake one leg down to the pedals, grab onto the sliding window in the rear of the cab, and just wiggle back and forth to steer. You "see" by the reflection in the rear slider.

It's an art. Little uncomfortable, but only the REALLY experienced guys can do it. I'm still working on it myself.

Although I hear it's easier in an L-9000. Besides, in an L-9000 you don't know (or care) if you hit anything because you can't feel it.

[Chuck Smith]

Hmmmmm.

How about a rear mounted pusher box. We all know it won't work on the front, because of the loss of steering control. On the rear, the springs are stiffer, the wheels don't turn, the weight would be off the "front" so steering could work.... AND that low reverse gear could be put to real use..... My first thought was to mount a bucket on the rear for stacking..... With the front wheels in the rear, it could manuever better, much like small fork lifts. The rear can take more weight....
ahhh, nevermind.

~Chuck
(See? Meaningless garble, now if I vented my head using the BRL method, all of this may have been clearer!)

[SLC1]

Automatic, I think is the only way to go now. My drivers are good but I would not trust them to be easy on a standard while plowing. We only have one truck our large F-800 that is standard and I wished that was automatic.

[diggerman]

John I would ass ume that a truck with out an air bag is important,it would suck(rear window that is) to get hit while in the middle of this process.

[Chuck Smith]

Dig,

Then again, if it had one, you could add a second switch. Then you could get out to check your spreader faster!

~Chuck

[Snow Pro]

Chuck -

What's BRL?

[Chuck Smith]

BRL is a poster here on the forum.
BRL is short for Big River Landscaping.
Look at the "PLEASE READ" thread.

~Chuck

[John Allin]

An air bag enema.....

Hmmmmmm..............

[iowastorm]

Hey John. . . along w/ my merchendising ideas in the other thread; the SIMA enema airbags could have your picture on them . . .

[BRL]

Chuck,
BRL really stands for beer. Brewery Raised Liquid.

Speaking of air bags, Its probably not a good idea to buy a truck with air bags to plow with, correct? The nature of this business would probably cause it to shoot out often right? Also, what about antilock brakes? I got a truck with those & the first time I plowed with it it was quite annoying. I was trying to slide into the end of the runs & needed to slow it down a little, but instead of the truck slowing, it STOPPED. So with that truck I pull the ABS fuse out while plowing. When I'm ready to shop for new trucks, can I get them with out ABS or do they all come with it now? Thanks

[John Allin]

The nature of how air bags work should not allow them to deploy while plowing, even when hitting a snow pile. Their are sensors around the truck that have to "fail" in order for the bags to deploy. One is in the very front nose of the truck, and you would have to crunch the plow frame into the truck to deploy the bags. Additionally, the bags shouldn't deploy until two or more sensors "fail".

I don't know squat about ABS systems (Storm... leave it alone.... I can already hear the wheels grinding in your head).

[diggerman]

Brl I can see where having your truck just be able to just stop in the snow would be irritating,but what keeps you from sliding into the hinney of a car at a stop light.Maybe you could put a toggle switch in the fuse blank so ABS could be turned off and on at your whim

[Chuck Smith]

John is right about air bags. My brother plows like a nut, and his never deployed. He even rear ended a car with the plow, and it didn't deploy.

On the subject of plowing with anti-lock brakes....

Not sure which manufacturers have what, but this came up before in a newsgroup. It seems that some manufacturers have it set so that when in 4wd, the anti-lock is disabled. Another make, when you put it in 4wd LOW, the anti-lock is disabled. Don't remember who has what though. The topic there was driving on trails, and "rock climbing" with anti-locks.

On a side note, a friend got a 98 F 350 Super Duty. On the highway, some moron towing a boat cut in front of him going up a hill. He slammed on the brakes and skidded far enough to wear 4 flat spots on his tires. Needless to say, he crashed the back of the boat hard, and knocked it half off the trailer. When he bought the truck, he "ass u me d" it had anti-locks. He was doing about 65, and the boat had slowed to 30 when he changed lanes. The idiot towing the boat apologized, and said "I didn't even look man, I'm so sorry!". After they pulled over.

So remember, when shopping for a new truck, be sure to ASK! "Fully loaded" doesn't always mean anti-locks.

~Chuck

[iowastorm]

Sorry, John, I don't know much about ABS either. Perhaps there is a night class for this?

[diggerman]

Storm ABS does not stand for the All Beer Society and those night classes, you can't get credits for taking them just a hang over.

[BRL]

Digger, Thanks for the toggle idea. I was too stupid to figure out how to make it easier. Although, I think it was good to get out of the truck for some fresh air & stretch the body out a little, while reaching for the fuse box. The toggle will come in handy for the small lots where a break isn't really necessary before moving on to the next one. Thanks for the airbag info guys. I'd be worried about that after seeing some people that really got their butts kicked when they deployed. Though I'm sure they preferred that over taking a flight through the windshield.

[finnegan]

Yup....can o' worms.........

[Alan]

At the first SIMA symposium the question was put to the plow makers about airbag deployment. The answer was another question, "Has anyone here had an airbag pop when plowing?" Guess what,, everybody knows "somebody" who has heard of a bag popping but nobody ever had one go off on them. Add that to the list of urban legends.

As far as anti-stop brakes, I understand the theory of why they are supposed to be be safer. I also understand the theory of why Bumblebees cannot fly. Anti-stops will probably NOT decrease stopping distances, under winter conditions they will increase stopping distances. They will allow the wheels to keep rolling so you can steer. Anti-stops were going to reduce our insurance rates, so said the Feds when they crammed themn down our throats. Didn't work that way, they are proving to be no benefit in preventing accidents. We've got them on our 97 K2500 and the only reasojn the fuse stasys in is the fear of heving an accident and having it come out in court that we had disabled the anti-stop feature. We've slid through more stop signs with them than we ever did without.

[finnegan]

Have had an airbag go off in shop,it sounds like a shotgun,I dont ever want to be in front of one when it lets loose!!

[thelawnguy]

This will be my 6th season plowing with an airbag, you will never set the bag off by plowing unless theres a wall in front of the plow. I think the equivalent force is hitting a solid immobile object (wall) at 18mph full frontal. Faster if at an angle, at least thats the Dodge 2500 spec.

The sensors react to deceleration, dont know the exact g force figure its been 10+ years since I worked at the dealer but you can have serious truck damage without airbag deployment.

[BRL]

Good points John. I only disable it when I'm in lots where I'm trying to get snow pushed up & out of the way by using the vehicle weight sliding behind the pile to help it stack. So far I remembered to put the fuse back in before hitting the road everytime. I used to agree with your comments about ABS NOT being safer, but now that I've had that truck for a few years & I've learned how to deal with ABS correctly, it has saved my butt once or twice. If you're used to driving with regular brakes you're going to have a hard time with ABS until you practice & get comfortable with it. Unfortunately that practice comes in the middle of an intersection where you had a red light. Oops! And that situation is usually a fast or panic one, where you don't have time to think about the fact that its not necessary to slide the truck around and that steering against the direction of slide will actually not work with the ABS. (Not sure if I'm describing that correctly, but ya'll know what I'm trying to say.)