The Impending Election

[SpringValley]

I don't want to discuss a lot of differing views and this is not the place for politics I know that. But, as small business men and women, we need to vote in the upcoming Presidential Election. Keep in mind, neither candidate may be your "choice" but there is one candidate worth voting AGAINST, that is Al Gore. George Bush as President will be the most favorable to us, the small business owner. The NFIB supports Bush and so should we. IF nothing else, make time to vote. Voting is our most cherished form of democracy and freedom and so many Americans choose not to vote. People in other countries are dying for the right to vote and establish a democracy.

So, end of sermon. Remember to VOTE on Nov. 7th.

Matt Kelley

[Charles]

"I don't want to discuss a lot of differing views"<---Matt
Oh yea? Thats not very democratic lol. Oh no we don't want a man who been part of a booming economy for the past 8 years. Why do we want a dum guy like Bush in office? he went to a siminar one time and admitted to another governor that he had no idea what the speakers were talking about. Al may live in a fantasy world but when he is lucid, least he can pronounce words correctly and can count.

[geogunn]

Originally posted by Charles

Al may live in a fantasy world but when he is lucid, least ....



hmmmm.... this compelling argument is making my choice easier. ;)

GEO

[thelawnguy]

yup, Im going to vote for the guy who invented the Internet, raped the strategic oil reserve, plans to complicate my tax return with a myriad of special interest tax credits, will create a Byzantine prescription drug program which will save the average senior a whopping $16 a year before expenses, et al...

Go to my Homepage for an opposing viewpoint.

[stick]

Ditto

[Mowin4cash]

I should have realized from Charles' many previous posts that he was a liberal. You can spot them a mile away. The economy has not been booming for the last eight years. It only started booming when my good friends the Republicans took control of the Congress. Why is it so hard for liberals to understand. By the way, what is a "siminar". Must be liberal to alien code.

[Runner]

Well, it just certainly - certainly wouldn't be prudent now would it?

[KirbysLawn]

Two things, thanks Chuck and Eric for not closing this thread and thats for everyone being civil. Check out this thread on ford-diesel.com, very good information.

Ray

http://forums.ford-diesel.com:8080/ubb/Forum5/HTML/002377.html

[John DiMartino]

Clinton had nothing to do with the booming economy-it was time-mickey mouse could've been in office-it wasnt the democrats doing at all.the economy is like a rollercoaster,now its time to go back down,are we going to blame the man in office or greenspan?what goes up,must come down.

[plymouthvaliant73]

Spring Valley wrote: "George Bush as President will be the most favorable to us, the small business owner."

George Bush will be the most favorable to big corporate business.

"Voting is our most cherished form of democracy and freedom and so many Americans choose not to vote."

And it is a good thing, too, for George Bush. Most who do not vote would vote democrat.

Mowin4cash wrote: "The economy has not been booming for the last eight years. It only started booming when my good friends the Republicans took control of the Congress."

Yes, and began spending more money than was asked for in the Clinton budget proposals. $25 Billion more in just the last three years.

[cos]

I am going to keep this a little shorter than normal than when I post about politics.

Charles, PLEASE read my posts about politics. Al Gore had nothing to do with a booming economy. You got the wrong Al. Allen Greenspan had alot to do with the resurge in the economy. I watched the debates and drew more sense from Bush than Gore. Let me tell ya, Gore loves to take credit when it is not do. Sorry to disagree, but the man just ain't fit for the office in my eyes.

[65hoss]

First to qualify my statement let me say I am a Retirement Plan Consultant and Financial Consultant for Retirement Plans in my spare time. I have a degree in accounting and 2 minors (economics and finance).

Now on to the statement...The economy and the financial markets are misleading. The run ups in the Dow & NASDAQ are due to a small number of stocks. Mostly in the tech and communication companies. The huge gains that have been reported the last couple of years where mostly made during the last quarter of the year. If you were NOT in certain stocks at the correct time, you made very little return if any. Many mutual funds are the same way. This is not to say that nobody made anything, its just to say that things aren't exactly as they are portrayed. The financial gurus wouldn't make an money if you thought you were going to loose. If they are more creative in reporting then people want to invest more. The brokers and mutual fund companies have made a killin' from this.

Since al gore didn't invent the net and tech and communication, its fair to say that the current admin is NOT responsible for the state of the economy. The reason that the perceived economy is booming is the freedom to compete in a free market and technology. The truth is, yes there may be more jobs at the present time, but the pay scale is not better. You may find a higher paying job to get you in the door, but raises never keep up to scale.

[geogunn]

Originally posted by 65hoss
First to qualify my statement let me say I am a Retirement Plan Consultant and Financial Consultant for Retirement Plans in my spare time.


and 'hoss, you are also a grass cutter?

do you specialize in one...or the other?

GEO

[LoneStarLawn]

I would love to see statments from someone who thinks that each candidate has pros and cons. Alot of comments made seem to be made by people who are sticking with there parties views and maybe not there own.

[65hoss]

Geo,
I went to college to have the knowledge to build and run my own company. That is what I'm in the process of now. I did the other full time until I started this business full time. I wanted for awhile to use my financial knowledge and put some cash back for this adventure. I still keep a few clients I do consulting for and have several companies that call me for advice. I alway keep up with the state of the markets and economy for this reason and my personal finances.

[geogunn]

thanks 'hoss. good answer.

Originally posted by LoneStarLawn
I would love to see statments from someone who thinks that each candidate has pros and cons.

lonestar, I can help you put with this one. IMO each candidate has pros and cons.:)

GEO

[Charles]

It was during Ronald reagans term that defecits skyrocketed. Trying to build up the military with ww2 old battleships etc. That were mothballed a short time later. Lets put it this way Bill and Al didnt hurt the economy. The republicans in congress have sided with the demos alot more than ultra conservatives would like. They have been outsmarted by clinton on every turn. We voted george bush sr out of office. He told the ultimate lie." READ MY LIP NO NEW TAXES". And george w has been caught in many mistatements. Like father like son. As for me being liberal. How many time do I have to say this. I am a moderate. I am also open minded. I don't follow one party like a sheep like some of you do. I see Als faults and I see georges faults. And I see we don't have much of a choice. I see George as a dum under acheaver. I see Al as a smart over acheaver with a bit of a car salesman in him. I am going to yell this lol. OZONE SMOG IS THE CULPRIT IN STUNTING GROWTH AND WE BETTER GET IT UNDER CONTROL. ITS HURTING BUSINESS EXPANSION AND SMALL BUSINESSES. We got to breath and control ozone depletion before we all fry. Thats not a liberal or conservative thing. That is a fact jack. And george could care less about the environment we all work in and kids play in

[lawrence stone]

The air is fine here in NE PA. Tasty and smog free.
The drinking water is also great.

Maybe you should relocate to an area that has a better quality of life.

Lots of lawn work and not enough contractors also, with cool temps, low humidity, and ample rainfall to enjoy.

[lawrence stone]

If janet "shaken bake" reno was not head of the dept. of injustice algore would be a con.

[65hoss]

Bush dumb?? He graduated Harvard. Did Gore? Gore also didn't graduate divinity school. Dumb?? I toured Texas with FEMA, when he didn't. I created the internet. I co-sponsored the McCain bill.

Truth of the matter is, we are at a crossroads with the election. The liberal agenda is clear, its a socialist agenda that gives power to the government. This is no secret, but the langauge told waters down the real truth and sadly people believe what the liberal media tells them. This is a free country not a socialist country. How can we try to spread peace and freedom, when we are willing to give our country over to a far left agenda. This should throw up a flag to any american. The media and acedemia have been controlled by the liberals for many years and they have been very sucessful in rewriting history and putting a "not so bad" spin on things. At least 90% of the american public has never really read the constitution cover to cover, and then looked at the founding fathers and the historical acts that led us to this country. You must then apply this knowledge when looking at Rome, Greece, etc. to see how freedom was lost to socialism. Where are these great sociaties today? Machiavelli basically says this is the normal course of action for a free sociaty. Eventually people give back all their power to the government.

Whose dumb? Could it possibly be the people who continue to believe what the media tells them is the truth? Could it be the people that think leadership is not effected by the Holiday Inn at 1600 Washington? Could it be the people that think BJ's in the White House and cover ups don't effect leadership?

Actually, these are not the worst, the worst is the people who just don't want to get involved. Just tell me what to do and I will do it. Look back, where would we be if Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Washington, Webster, and many more would have said the same thing? I bet I know where we would be...Probably very similar to the position we are at now!

[TGCummings]

Umm...

Charles, you the man & everything but ultra-conservationism (is that a word? ;) ) is a liberal thing, to correct your point.

Ozone depletion science is in it's infancy, and you'll find at least as many researchers on the subject tell you concerns are unfounded and the processes are natural, as those who tow the left-wing party line that the world will end in smog. In 1985, the party line was that the world would end in 15 years because of man's carelessness with the ozone layer. When is the projected end now? How much further out will it be stretched when we get to that point again?

Want a fact? The biggest "problems" with the ozone layer of Earth are caused volcanoes. Mother Nature at work. The largest holes found are directly above recently active fire-breathers. But, not to worry, my Green Industry friends, they repair themselves in time!

Is smog a problem? Yes, sir, it is. Spend a night at a rest stop breathing in all the diesel fumes from rigs that don't get turned off and nausea will ensue. Is ozone smog stunting growth and hurting business expansion? Check the number of registered members of this site again, then answer the question for yourself...

-TGC

[parkwest]

Has anyone read,
"Are you Liberal? Conservative? or Confused?"
by Richard J. Maybury?

65hoss,

Remember throughout history men have found it is easier to be slaves than freemen. With freedom comes responsibilities, slaves just do what they are told to do. In "Spartucus", the author asks an interesting question. How did the Roman government convince the slaves in it's army to fight the slaves who were fighting for freedom?

For those who have been convinced we live in a democracy, please show me where that word is in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution for the United States. That was one of the concerns in the begining that the larger states could dominate the smaller states.






[Edited by parkwest on 10-13-2000 at 01:37 PM]

[TGCummings]

Heard a great line the other night while dining at a local fast-food joint with my wife. Three old men were discussing politics after coming off the golf course, and they were all trying to decide between the two Presidential candidates. One of them, the third to speak, finally said he didn't like either choice because the way he saw it the American people were either gonna get Gored or Bush-Whacked. :)

The wife and I laughed out loud, and I thought I'd share it with y'all. He has a point, though, I'm not real enamored by either candidate. I've been a Republican for all my voting life, but we've fielded better reps. Reagan and Bush the First were great, despite some over-blown mistakes from time to time. Bob Dole was a good man and a good leader. I still dig Kemp.

This young man, Bush the Second, has a long way to go. I'll vote for him (look at the alternative!), and give him a chance to push the Republican cause while in office. He may come across as a goof from time to time, but he's still his father's boy, I believe, and the heir to the Reagan/Bush line. If we can give him a Republican Congress we might turn this ship back around, despite his less-than-stellar grace.

At any rate, just remembered that line and thought I'd share. Have a good day!

-TGC

[thelawnguy]

"And it is a good thing, too, for George Bush. Most who do not vote would vote democrat. "

This statement pretty much sums it up for the Democratic Party. Take it from there.

[crew]

I am proud to be a liberal! Having aformentioned jefferson, Washington,etc. on my side is not bad. Those guys threw off the shakles of oppression and liberated the little guys. IMHO that is the biggest difference between the parties: GBW and his minions want more silver spoons and AG wants to help the little guy or the guy who hasnt had all the breaks or the guy who made some stupid decisions and needs a leg up.
Judge any society by the way it treats the less fortunate and you will see that as long as the little guy is getting screwed, collapse is inevitable.

RE:ozone depletion - when all the evidence is in, I only hope its not too late. GBW is an oilman. Do you really think he will encourage alternate energy sources? HELL NO. Keep burning oil and fighting wars to make sure that oil is cheap(wouldnt want the cost of maintenance at the estate to go up too much).

Hoss, Machiavelli was an ***hole. You really want him on your side?

If you want to credit anyone with the economic conditions, credit you rself. You go to work, pay your taxes, pay workers etc. Republicrat or Demican does not matter much.

[TGCummings]

Jefferson was a libertarian, not a liberal. He supported a weak central government, and low (or zero!) taxation.

While neither Democrat or Republican, I'd say his ideals were closer to those of the latter than the former...

-TGC

[Toroguy]

If Clintons administration is responsible for the great boom economically the past few years than they are also responsible for the rise and fall of the Dallas Cowboys and S.F 49'ers.

They are both willing to say anything to get elected. They are the equivalent to a 21 year old drunk guy trying to pick up a girl at a night club. If the media decided that the public would like them better if they wore t-shirts and tennis shoes; I bet yall money the next debate is in that attire.

[Charles]

65hoss, no one except you has been argueing the W is intelligent. W is like the star quarterback on the football team who cruised through school. I think his grades in Harvard were average or below. He was known for his partying and drinking in school. An admited alcoholic(nothing wrong with that) now recovering. Most everyone know Gore is very intelligent. i am not sure but I think he went to Yale. Maybe someone else out there knows.
Lawrence we have the 3rd most visited lake in the country where I live. One industry dumped pcbs in the lake and it is now unsafe to eat large fish in certain part of the lake where the dumping took place. And we are in the cleanest part of the country. At least where the environment is concerned. Ever here of New yorker talk about the hudson river? The south is a beautiful place to live. Bush wants to leave it up to industry to police themselves. Ever see that erin broderick movie? Industry dump dangerous chronium into the water system. Leading to many cases of cancer in that area. And on and on and on.
TGC, there is: republican conservatives, moderates and ulter conservative(pat buchanan etc)
Democrats, moderate demos, convervate demos. Bush is a moderate Republican being pushed to the right by Christain conservatives.
Gore exagerates to make a point. But that doesnt take away from the fact that he is the more experienced intelligent canidate. I don't think Gore was involved in any way with the bj scandal lol.


[Edited by Charles on 10-13-2000 at 06:30 PM]

[davesgs75]

just a thought.

the way i understand it spotted al gore is behind in the polls in his home state of tenn. this is a state that is known for voting democratic. what does that tell ya?

[Charles]

Gore graduated from Harvard University in 1969 with honors
1971-72 attended vanderbilt UNV
1975-1976 attend vanderbilt law school
1976-1985-Congressman
1985-1992- senate

[thelawnguy]

Too bad his resume doesnt include a JOB.

[Charles]

1969- Gore enlist in the US army
Jan/1971- gore begin his service in Vietnam as a military journalist- hey maybe he got to close to a grenade is why he exagerates lol

May/1971 returns home. I sure he must have worked at Micky dees somewhere along the way Bill lol

[Cutter1]

Al gore??? I refuse to vote for anyone against the internal combustion engine. Go Bush!!!

[65hoss]

George W. Bush was born July 6th, 1946 and grew up in Midland and Houston, Texas. He received a bachelor’s degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard.


U.S. Senator Albert Gore,Sr. and Pauline LaFon Gore. Raised in Carthage, Tennessee, and in Washington, D.C., Gore received a degree in government with honors from Harvard University in 1969. After graduation, he volunteered for enlistment in the U.S. Army and served in Vietnam. Returning to civilian life, Gore settled in Tennessee and studied religion at Vanderbilt University while working as a newspaper reporter with The Tennessean in Nashville. He and Tipper bought the farm they still call home in Carthage, Tennessee in 1973, the same year their first child was born. Gore later attended Vanderbilt Law School.

This is the education background of both men and the info came from their own web pages. Notice Gore on graduated Harvard with undergrad degree, no advanced degree. Never graduated Vanderbilt either. Al's role in Vietnam was a photographer.

You must be pretty smart guy to have an undergrad from Yale, and MBA from Harvard. I'm sure you know that someone without intelligence never becomes a pilot.

I'm from TN and let me tell you, he may use this as his home state, but he has never really lived here. He is a DC guy.
P.S. You only make up things (lie) when you are out smarted or just plain full of S$%t.

[65hoss]

You guys have got to see this.

http://www.slaphillary.com

[pottstim]

I agree with the Lawn Guy...
Al Gore=Career Politician.

Heck, I live in Tennessee and don't even care for the guy. Matter of fact, there a quite a few folks here that feel the same way as I do. IMO Bush isn't that great either, he's not the man his dad is.
The other day, I was watching a speech on Cspan with Minnesota Gov Jesse Ventura. Jesse said, "This election's ballot has Bush and Gore on it. I think that the people should have more choices than two... Wouldn't it be nice if this election's ballot had NONE OF THE ABOVE ON IT."
He also said that Colin Powell should be the President of the United States, and not the men mentioned above. I agree with Jesse on that wholeheartedly, because Mr. Powell is honest, as well as a fine human being. He represents what the president should be, and he is a true Patriot.

Just my 2 cents...

Tim

[stick9]

http://www.harrybrowne.org/

SticK-nINE

[cutting edge]

I am closer to taking a trip to mars than I am to being rich. My understanding is that it is the rich people that keep the economy good. They are the ones who have the most money to invest in companies, and do it. I invest a little here and there, but my tiny contribution wouldn't get a scrub's business started let alone a major corporation. Free enterprise is what separates our country from the wanna-be's. The old saying it takes money to make money holds true. It also takes money to make free enterprise work. So if the republicans want to give the rich man a tax cut I have no quam with that. That means less money for the government to waste and more money to be invested in our economy.

[Charles]

So let me get this straight. Some of you guy would rather have someone in office with no experience in how washington or the white house works? Like jimmy carter the peanut farmer(who made me sick most of the time), ronald reagan the actor, clinton. All these guys took time to train. At least gore has alot of exerience in how washington works. He has seen what to do and what NOT to do. Would you rather hire an experienced man to work in your company? Or one you would have to train? Seems that alot of american people want an outsider in the whitehouse. They spend the first couple of years f'ing everything up.

[KirbysLawn]

Charles, yes. I will take lack of experience and trust over experience and habitual lying anyday. Just because he has been VP does not make him a canidate for President, Clinton was re-elected Gore was along for the ride. I have ZERO trust in Gore, period.

Ray

[cos]

Charles,

Let me dispell another one of your misconceptions. The Reagan administration inherited a piss poor economy and that is the reason that he won the election. Reagan promised to turn a flondering economy to a proseperise one. It took him 1 1/2 to 2 yrs to do so and that is why he became a 2 term president and will be a marter in history. The peanut farmer, though a nice, down to earth man, gave our panama canal away. I say OUR, because many, many people (Americans) died designing and building this enormous well constructed channel way. And Carter just pissed it away with 1 pen stroke. The economy was on a down swing during all of the Carter administration. Ronald reagan was able, with a Demacratic Congress, turn the tide and it started to its down fall during the end of Bush's 1st term.

We now know that no president can change the trends in any economy, but we are able to stimulate it by adjusting interest rates and other various means.

[cutting edge]

Who better to LEARN from than "dear old dad". And before you point out the mistakes he made it is my understanding that the next generation makes a point not to make the same ones. I think having a father that was President makes you more qualified than being VP. Being Vice President is not the same as being the President. Gore does not have first hand knowledge on being the President and neither does Bush. But Bush has the next best thing, his father WAS the President. If you think Clinton is going to be there to hold Gore's hand when he "ain't sure" then you are mistaken.

[davesgs75]

i think cos hit the nail on the head. no president can change the econimy by himself. it is the congress and the feds who make such things happen. it is congress who passes bills, set up budgets, and make things happen. there is always such a big debate about who should be president, when the debate comes down to each state and who they elect as senators and representatives. if you want to give credit for the good economy it is to the republican congress and alan greenspan.

just my 2 cents

[Edited by davesgs75 on 10-14-2000 at 02:34 AM]

[geogunn]

Originally posted by Charles
So let me get this straight. Some of you guy would rather have someone in office with no experience in how washington or the white house works? Like jimmy carter the peanut farmer(who made me sick most of the time)....

duhh...'scuse me charles. regardless how sick you got from jimmy carter's peanuts. the peanut farmer was also a NUCLEAR PHYSICIST. now I call that pretty dam* smart despite his unpopular poliices.;)

GEO

[65hoss]

want experience? Gore is a second man. He is not the chief executive. On the other hand, Bush is the chief executive of Texas. Look back since the beginning and see that most Presidents were Gov. of states and not vp's.

Just because you know how washington works doesn't mean much. We don't want more of the same s#$t. More career politicans with no REAL world experience and not in touch with the people, is not what the people want. Gore only comes to TN when he is up for reelection.

What would scare me about Gore is the people he would surround him to hold his hand during big decisions. The potiental is worse than Clinton's nominations. What was that stupid womans name that clinton had a attn general for a while when he was first elected? The one that decided since the title general was in her position she had a general's uniform made to wear with all the ribbons and medals.

[thelawnguy]

problem with Carter was he was too smart, didnt think anyone else could do as good as he and his failure to delegate authority was the big downfall of his administration.

He shares some of Al Gores traits so if you loved the Carter years of 24% loans and double digit inflation then by all means vote for Albert Im sure he wont disappoint.

If you want to help make a difference this November go to http://www.echampions2000.com/


[Edited by thelawnguy on 10-14-2000 at 06:49 PM]

[Lawn Cruiser]

Do we really want to vote for a guy who is stiff as a board and claims that the current President will go down in history as one of the greatest President's ever. Hey Al what ever you were smoking you must have inhaled. He already lies like the man we have in office already invented the internet, inspiration for the book Love Story what's next? Invented the lawn mower.

[Bobby]

65Hoss mentioned above that we are at a crossroads. How bad dose sociaty have to get before we figure out that we must return back to the values of the generations before us?
If you are reading this, you are not a hybrid monkey.
A lot of this booming economy talk would dissapear if we wern't using credit cards.
One man says life is sacred.
The other man says we have the right to kill babies.
Seems to me that we have the right to enjoy ourselves, but if she gets pregnant, we have an obligation to care for our child.
Making all the money you can stand is'nt gona do you any good if Gore tells you how to use it.
Watch the news tonight.Are we getting better or worse?

[Guido]

Think of those poor guys in the military that can use some change in benefits and a Real commander in chief as a boss.


VOTE BUSH !!!!! Do it for Guido!!!!

:)

[KirbysLawn]

Guido, consider it done!

[LoneStarLawn]

Originally posted by Lawn Cruiser
He already lies like the man we have in office already invented the internet, inspiration for the book Love Story what's next? Invented the lawn mower.

He invented pants too...

I love that commercial...

[Charles]

According to Norman schwartskoff(howerver you spell it) Colin Powell is the one who recommended to George Bush that they call a truce in the gulf war before Norman was finished. The main army and terrorist of sadams army the Republican Guard got to waltz back into iraq and go about crushing any uprising against sadam. Bush just abandoned the people fighting against sadam. Like father like son

[cos]

LOL (REAAAAAAAAAAAAL LOUD)


Another miconception charlie, and I ain't even gonna waste my time replying.


:D:D:D:D

[Charles]

Ya Cos, like the "fuzzy math" bush could not understand hahahaha:)

[lawrence stone]

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/article.htm


http://www.jeffrense.com/


http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/clarkhoward/

[cos]

Like I said, everytime you come up with something rediculous to say about Bush or republicans for that matter you are either wrong or far out in left field. Sorry, no offense, but I ain't going to counter stupidity anymore. I think alot of people here agree with me more and besides my fingers are sore from responding to your anti-republican posts.

[yardsmith]

Ok here is an Email that was sent by a friend of mine recently. I couldn't fig. out how to cut-n-paste it to the forum thread, so I'll have to type alot of it.
AL GORE' LIES & TALL TALES WHILE IN OFFICE (JUST A FEW):
1) claimed his mom pays $100 for Lodine for her arthritis, while he pays $37 for same stuff for his dog.
FACT-He didn't even know about his dog having arthritis; His aides were quick to apologize for this.Al wasn't even sure at the time his mom was on medication, let alone if she even had arthritis.

2)Al siad his sister was the 1st person to ever join the peace corps back in the day.
FACT- there were already 100 members by the time she joined.

3)Al said his dad was a champion of civil rights during the 60's.
FACT- He voted AGAINST the landmark civil rights act of 1964 & was a racist fond of using the N word.

4)Gore's campain literature said he was a brilliant student
FACT- he brely passed harvard, earning D's & C's.

5)Al claims extensive knowledge of law from extensive study at law school.
FACT- He dropped out of law school.

6)Al claimed his spirituality & knowledge of God came to "fruition" while finishing divinity school.
FACT- He dropped out of divinity school also.

7)Al claimed to be the inventor of the Internet.
FACT- shocked scientists quickly spoke out, explaining how the internet had been in widespread use by the Gov. & educational institutions since the 70's.

8)Gore claims that while a reporter for a Nashville paper, his stories led to conviction & arrests of numerous corrupt criminals.
FACT- Gore himselfapologized for the claim, & actually said it was untrue (also known as lying).

9)Al says parents should not have a choice between private & public schools for their kids because public schols are much better.
FACT-Al himself attended private school & has sent HIS kids to private schools.

10)Al claims to be instrumental in keeping gas prices low
FACT-He has voted numerous times to raise taxes on gasoline.
He has written in his book "Earth in the balance" that our #1 enemy is the internal combustion engine-the same one that takes you to work, helps get your groceries, takes your kids to school, helps us all earn a living. Imagine how much mowers would cost if they had to come up with totally alternative fuels & non combustible engines?
Remember they don't call him TREE HUGGER for nothing!!!!!!!!!

That was only 10 out of about 16-20 of the claims that were quoted. There are more I'm sure.
I love my mowers, trimmers, & 4x4's etc. & an ATV when I ever get the money for one.
Also I appreciate the right to defend my family with a crime equalizer known as a firearm. If you value yours, you better VOTE AGAINST PINNOCHIO GORE..............
Sorry for such a long post, but I had about 10 cents that needed to be put in.

[Charles]

New poll that came out yesterday: Seniors think 50something to 20something that Al will do a better job with health care. They had 4 categories and Al led in every one. About Als errors lol, thats still small potatoes. Has really no effect on how he will run the country.
Cos, this is not dems against rep or you against me. This is just a debate on whos the best man. Come up with stuff like Lawrence did to defend your man. I am not dead set on Al yet. I think we all need more info to make the best decision. I will not make up my mind until the last minute as usual. But someone has to give Als side of it too. Since the main posters seem to be on Bushes side. But this has alot to do with lawncare because politicians effect every biz. Remember though Al and bush say they are going to do this and that and when they finally get into office they may do something entirely different. They just need money and support to get their foot in the door.
About the repubilcan party. Some you guys think they have no faults. But Clinton WON the last 2 elections. So the republicans are not yet appealing to mainstream America yet. Maybe this is the year they change that. Bush is close. We just have to waite and see. Parkwest you havent really seen me be serious yet:)

[KirbysLawn]

Charles, did Bill Clinton win by receiving the majority of the votes?

[Charles]

I dont even remember Kirby. I just know he won. You have to win the states with the most electorate votes. Republicans have to ask themselves why they can't do that. There is what seems to be a new surge in interest in politics and voting this year. Because while most of america sleeps. The politicians are taking us to the cleaners I mean did anyone watch 60 min last night? There was this rep represenative who had this woman working for him. He is head of this construction committee. She quit working for him and became a lobbyist. Lobbying him for special interest project. And also raising money for him and getting paid by the interest groups she is lobbying for. She made 2 mill last year. They representative even stays at her home alot of the time. Another committee rebuked him but then said he violate no rules by this setup. Even John mcCain was scared to speak out against this powerful guy.
Some large companies said they were tired of paying campaign money to the parties in exchange for favors. So a head republican party guy sent the rep of those companies a letter saying if they wanted to play they had to pay. And that the rep for thos companies should resign. They read the letter on the news. This is why we need campaign finance reform finance reform. i am not giving every detail on these newsclips for space reasons.
America better wake up and do some house cleaning on both sides Dems and Rep

[Lazer]

As far as winning elections:

Republicans won 5 of the last 8 presidential elections.

Republicans hold 54% of elected office nationwide.

[Charles]

Anybody could have beat Jimmy Carter even Billy

[parkwest]

Boy, this sounds like the shake-down tactics the Dems used on the Tobacco companies and going after Microsoft when Gates didn't contribute to the DNC.

Campaign Finance Reform:

Bribery is an impeachable offense. Bribery as defined in the dictionary is Using money to buy influence. Just enforce the laws we have now.

Charles, ask yourself why do you think most of these people spend millions of dollars to get elected to a job that doesn't legitimately pay that much. And most of them are lawyers.

An old saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." What has Gore done to earn your trust. You can trust anyone as much as your willing to lose, but once someone lies to you it would be stupid to ever believe them again. How would you know?

[Charles]

Gore has been a congressman, senator and now a VP and he hasnt been in Jail once yet :). Good record to me. Bush has just been Gooooovv of texas big whoop. All pols exagerate and lie and we keep reelecting them. Thats not new.

[parkwest]

A good movie to watch is an old Jimmy Stewart film called, "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington."

[thelawnguy]

Lets look at Als proposed gov't-run drug plan. Seniors would pay a 25/mo premium, then be reimbursed for 50% of the prescription cost. Now, Als own beancounters have determined the average Senior pays $560/yr on prescription drugs (some more, some less, non-seniors much less). Now lets do the math. $25./mo x 12 mo = $260/yr, + 50% of 560 ($280 copay) =$540 per year out-of-pocket. So the average senior will save a whopping $20 per year, but this is before you figure the increased taxes that will be required to run such a program. (Most likely also an increase in the medicare rate to also help fund the program). And that also means that the Whopper Flopper making $200/week will be footing part of the bill for Bill Gates Viagra prescription (remember you pay the medicare tax regardless of income level).

Is it worth it Charles? You want a president who is willing to help this country return to its values, or one who takes potty breaks and misses the important parts of meetings (Buddhist temple fundraiser briefing) because he drank too much iced tea? (Als claim why he didnt know it was a fundraiser).

[KirbysLawn]

Before you make your final decision read these.

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." --Al Gore
> > >> >
"Democrats understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." -- Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow
astronauts."--Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat
the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We
have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, & water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." --Vice President Al Gore, 8/11/94
> > >> >
"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." -- Vice Pres. Al Gore, 9/15/95
> > >> >
"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."
--Vice President Al Gore, 5/22/98
> > >> >
"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice
president, & that one word is 'to be prepared'."
--Vice President Al Gore, 12/6/93
> > >> >
"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
--Vice President Al Gore 11/30/96
> > >> >
"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good
judgments in the future." --Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"The future will be better tomorrow." Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world." --Vice President Al Gore, 9/21/97
> > >> >
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive
positions and have a tremendous impact on history." -- Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
--Vice President Al Gore to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93
> > >> >
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." -- Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"Public speaking is very easy."
--Vice President Al Gore to reporters in 10/95
> > >> >
"I am not part of the problem. I am a Democrat."
--Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." -- Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame. --Al Gore
> > >> >
"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." --Vice President Al Gore, 5/20/96
> > >> >
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not
occur." -- Vice President Al Gore, 9/22/97
> > >> >
"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
--Vice President Al Gore, 9/5/93
> > >> >
"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." --Vice President Al Gore, 9/18/95
> > >> >
"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make." --Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."
--Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the
impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Vice President Al Gore
> >> >
"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
Vice President Al Gore
> > >> >
> > >> >
THE ALL TIME FAVORITE QUOTATION OF MR. GORE:
> > >> >
"As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the Internet" --AL Gore to Katie Couric 3/99
> > >> >>

[lawrence stone]

"As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the Internet" --AL Gore to Katie Couric 3/99


Photo fantasy is a great program. I just added my head shot to a pic of Gates, Allen, and Balmer. Now I am one of the founders of Mircosoft.

[Charles]

Even brilliant people have flaws Kirby. Gore can name most of the world leaders and pronounce their names. While Bush will call them "that guy over there in that country" lol Pronouncing words is one of bushes flaws.
Bill, what is bushes plan and how will it help seniors?

[SpringValley]

Man what a thread I started here. I wanted to make a point that either candidate may or may not be the best choice but Al Gore is worth voting AGAINST. I generally vote Republican but I am not an Anti-Democrat. Show me a good candidate and I will vote for him. Gore is for big Government spending. Bush wants to give PART of the surplus back to us working stiffs that paid the taxes that created the surplus in the first place. Gore wants to spend nearly all of it as he sees fit. As I see it, the budget defecit started with FDR's (a four term Democratic President that caused Presidential term limits to be a Constitutional Amendment)New Deal in pre-WW2. I do not believe the federal budget was ever balanced after that until Bush Sr. started it in place. Clinton our current Democratic prez would have us without a surplus at this point if the Republican Congress hadn't been there to vote down all of his spending proposals. Besides that, Clinton vetoed the Marriage Penalty on our Federal Taxes after our Congress and Senate approved it.
Bush has his faults. In my opinion, he has fewer and less glaring negative faults and more positive aspects to being President our our great United States of America than Al Gore. My brother states that Gore will tax your behind, tax what comes out of your behind, and then tax your sewage bill (I cleaned that up a bit, pun intended!).

Remember to exercise your right to vote!!
Matt Kelley

[Charles]

Matt, we are around 5 trillion dollars in debt over all. This imaginary surplus of the yearly budget hasn't even surfaced yet. I dont think there should be any tax cuts or extra spending crap until we pay down the over all debt

[SpringValley]

Agreed!!

[crew]

Charles, you are not alone.

The thing you cannot forget about the media is that truth is not what sells. Gore WAS influetial as a senator in the growth of the internet. The author of Love story DOES include Al as one of his inspirations in writing the book. George jr. is NOT a stupid man. Ford was NOT a bumbling fool. In fact he was a hell of a football player. Reagan was a great leader in the same way Charlton Heston is ; "just keep saying what we tell you to and everything will be fine". Al's a liar and George jr. is stupid sells better than in depth analysis. Ford falling down the steps is much more appealing than actually telling us that he was wherever doing whatever. The mainstream media aims at the lowest common denominator.

The point is this - read the platform,look at the record and make your call. I choose to embrace a party that is, IMHO, trying to help all Americans, regardless of race, creed or economic standing, share in the dream. Al is flawed, but who among us is not? For the life of me I cannot understand why some people are so afraid of change. The internal combustion engine replaced the steam engine which replaced the horse which replaced the slave etc. It is inevitable that something new and better will come along. Change is good, dont be afraid of it.

Charles has it right - the one issue that matters the most is campaign finance reform. I'll admit the buddhist thing is fishy. But until we stop making money whores out of anyone who aspires to high office, we will keep getting less than appealing candidates. Money corrupts and we have to take it out of the eqution. Before GWB got the nod, i was ready to vote for Mcain. You picked the wrong guy.

Hey Yardsmith, You are not going to believe the email I just recieved (from a very reliable source). To paraphrase: famous rapper eminem is the illegitimate love child of an angry but passionate fling between Rush Limbaugh and Hillary Clinton. CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!!

[Charles]

Thanks for jumpin in Crew. News tonight reported that Bush made 2 misstatements in the last debate. In fact the opposite was true of what he said. But the news didnt make a big deal of it. Because they were caught up in the middle east thing. And too he mispronounced the same word 2 times in a sentence. No big deal, but then Als slip ups are made out to be big news.

[KirbysLawn]

Charles, what were the misstatements?

[Charles]

Kirby, you know how fast they change the stories on the evening news lol. I didnt write them down. Just 2 misstatements of fact on what he is doing in texas. Was on Dan Rather

[cos]

One was that he said the 3 men that dragged james byrd to death were doing to dye by lethal injection, when in fact, 1 made a plea bargain, and is going to serve life.

And the other was so minimum that I can't remember what it was.

I did get a good laugh at the enormous list of misfacts that Gore made though. Thanks Kirby.

[zimm4]

As you know when reagan gave us back some of our money.
This created a greater economy. There is proof that giving money back with tax cuts helps the economy.

We should pay down the debt also. Instead of giving the senior citizens more breaks.

Remember people 55 and over control 80% of the wealth.

Kyle

[zimm4]

By the way if you could not tell. Im a staunch republican.
I vote a straight ticket always. My wife votes the same.

[Charles]

Zimm the overall national debt doubled or tripled during the reagan years. Enjoy your money. The kid of the future will be paying for it for along time

[The Lawn Genie]

Recently in a debate, both candidates were asked what they would do during a crisis of a major financial institution. Both candidates replied that in this situation they would consult their colleagues and then make a decision. Neither one of them bothered to say that they would let the FDIC handle the crisis, even though the law specifically says that is what should happen.

Neither candidate is qualified.

[Charles]

Thats true jessie. They both suck lol. But I think Bush sucks more than Al at the moment.
Kirby this is the other Misstatement or misleading statement that Bush said in the debate.
Bush "We spent $4.7 billion a year on the uninsured in the state of Texas"
Fact: "3.5 billion consist of CHARITABLE care provided by hospitals in their emergency rooms, private physician, charities, local governments and free clinics----none of which is paid by the state.
The state actual share in under $1 billion.
So Al is not the only one who does this.

[Kent Lawns]

96% of our National Debt was incurred by a Democratic Congress.

Republican Congress has lead to the largest surplus' in history.

[crew]

You guys have to decide who gets the blame or credit. One post says Reagan got our money back and the next gives credit to a republican congress.This is pretty convienient for you. I'm not positive but I think Ronny had to deal with a democratic legislature most of the time and Clintons had to deal with republicans. So let me make the point for you: " the democrats ran up the defecit in the Reagan years and the republicans are responsible for the projected surpluses we now enjoy".....or is it the other way around ?

If the first statement is correct, it does not matter who is president. The real power lies in the legislature. If that statement is not correct, Reagan almost killed us and Clinton/Gore should be praised as one of the greatest administrations of the century.

[Charles]

Jessie"the body" Ventura opinion of al and bush
On Bush " i have nothing against the man personally. But as a politician, he is the classic example of the modern-day-say-anything public figure.

On gore-"hes a fine contender"
he liked John McCain best of all.

[cos]

Charles, Charles, Charles,

The National Debt DID NOT get any higher when reagan was in office. Reagan was able to cut taxes and build up the military with out interest rates getting out of control. The economy did very well during the Reagan years and this is another misconception that you posted. Also, the unemployement rate was at all time lows. Richard nixon probably had the best economy during his years as president, but he was a republican and you won't here too many kind words about him either, I suppose.

[65hoss]

Charles,
I really like Gov. Ventura. I have been reading his most recent book. I must agree with alot, because as you know from one of my post, I am strong on the constitution being the main focus. The need for some major changes is a big concern. But this election has 2 choices and the main reason Bush is my selection is the Supreme Court Justices. The far left goes toward socialism.

I was a McCain supporter, we need someone to shake things up. I just don't think we can afford an extremist like Gore.

[zimm4]

Charles who spends our tax money. The congress. The demacratic congress spent money we did not have.

The debt compared to our economy pales in comparrison.

I still agree we have to pay down debt.


One way we can pay it back faster is to do away with all the social programs.

[Charles]

Cos, Actually I liked Nixon at the time. Until reality of what kinda person he was set in after all the investigations. It really upset me when he resigned and got on that plane. I told the forum that I am a moderate republican. Just waiting on a good canidate I can support. I stick with my story about the debt increasing during the the reagan years. At least on some of my post i research thing instead of trying to rely on memory. You haven't shown any inclination to research anything and give the forum facts and figures. Your just like "oh all you are sooo stupid and I know it all" Well I bring up point. Just rebutt them with facts and figures and scources that we can all see. I have a open mind

[Charles]

09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
12/31/1985 1,945,941,616,459.88
12/31/1984 1,662,966,000,000.00 *
12/31/1983 1,410,702,000,000.00 *
12/31/1982 1,197,073,000,000.00 *
12/31/1981 1,028,729,000,000.00 *
12/31/1980 930,210,000,000.00 *
12/31/1979 845,116,000,000.00 *
12/29/1978 789,207,000,000.00 *
12/30/1977 718,943,000,000.00 *
12/31/1976 653,544,000,000.00 *
12/31/1975 576,649,000,000.00 *
12/31/1974 492,665,000,000.00 *
12/31/1973 469,898,039,554.70
12/29/1972 449,298,066,119.00
12/31/1971 424,130,961,959.95
12/31/1970 389,158,403,690.26
12/31/1969 368,225,581,254.41
12/31/1968 358,028,625,002.91
these are the national debt figures. I think reagan was prez from 1980 to 1980 to 1988

[thelawnguy]

What is the sign of a true leader? One who can (and is willing) to ask for advice, and surround himself with like-minded individuals to help form a consensus. Not someone who thinks they always know all the answers, and micromanages everything.

I met Al Gore in person back in April 95, had a luncheon meeting with myself ans seven other community leaders and Al, then-Secretary of HUD Henry Cisneros (theres a whole other story) our state Governor and Congresswoman. I recall that not once did Albert ever concede to not having the answers to the questions and problems we brought up; he had all the answers and all the solutions, much to the irritation of Cisneros and the gov-you could see the pain in their faces while Al made lots of empty promises everyone knew were impossible to keep. I decided then and there that there was no way I would ever support this guy for anything, not even dogcatcher.

I voted for Dole in 96 for the sole reason I wanted Albert out of a job. And the way he stuck up for Clinton during the impeachment just turned my stomach.

If you are a voter in CT remember that if Al is elected then Lieberman is too, which means his senate seat is vacant (Lieberman refused to drop his senate run and is basically running unopposed) which means by law the republican gov will appoint someone to fill his seat (almost certainly senior congresswoman Nancy Johnson-R) I think you CT dems would be better served with Joe in the senate than him waiting for Al to catch a dirt nap so he can take his seat in the oval office.

Im sure tomorrow Ill find other reasons Al shouldnt be president.

[65hoss]

Based on the figures you provided on the national debt, it seems the debt is going up faster in the clinton/gore yrs. During the previous years we were financing the cold war military and even a gulf war and since then we have been financing mainly social programs. I guess this is why its up to those lasted numbers?

Chalk one up for Bush in the debate. He didn't get all bent out of shape like al. If you can't shut up and let people talk, how can al be pres? The mark of a real leader is someone in control of themself!

[Charles]

Bill, I can see why you and your friendsgot frustrated being in the same room with someone so intelligent as Gore. I will call him up and ask him to dumb it down for you guys next time J/K. But you fell into that one :).
65 Hoss, Bush was trying to act so calm in the debate to contrast gore he looked like he was on prozac lol. He use to act hyper and scream on the campaign trail. All these advisers to the candidates make them look silly sometimes. They should all be themselves and forget about it.
They ask a room full of undecided after the debate and it was gore the winner by a landslide. Like 10 to 2 for gore.
Hoss, just the interest on the debt keeps it going up every year.
Congress sends a budget including all the spending to the prez and he either approves the budget or rejects it. Congress with enough of a majority can override that rejection. But it has to be a give and take process.
The public demands that congress spend money on their pet projects. Like infrastructure, education, social programs.
So the public is partly to blame for the debt. We can't place all the blame on the government. We elect these guys and gals to look out after our interest and spend on what we want. And we want alot. We just dont want to pay for it.

[parkwest]

Charles,

I feel you may have become a victim of the liberal propaganda machine. I was wondering if you have ever read the constitution. There is a very short section in it descibing the presidents duties. Take what your guy is promising us (a known serial liar)and show me where he is authorized, by us the people, to do it. I, myself do not want the state to take care of me. I feel if a person takes care of his family and everyone did this a lot of the problems get solved. How do you think this country became such a great place to live? It wasn't because of tyrannical or arbitrary rules and regulations. It was the first experiment in which each individual was his own ruler. Nowhere in the history of mankind had this ever been tried. All of Europe at the time was waiting for us to flop. They believed the common man was to ignorant to make it on his own.

If you don't like this concept maybe you should move to a country where a form of gov't that takes care of its serfs already exist.

[lawrence stone]

Parkwest wrote:

>If you don't like this concept maybe you should move to a country where a form of gov't that takes care of its serfs already exist.

It's much to cold in Canada for Charles.

[parkwest]

Some warm weather alternatives:

Cuba, and its not to far away.

Southern China or Viet Nam

Southern Russia.

[thelawnguy]

Charles, we all mourn with you and Al:

Gus Hall; Communist Party Leader in the U.S. for 40 Years


By MYRNA OLIVER, Times Staff Writer





Gus Hall, the lumberjack, iron miner, steelworker and union organizer whose name became synonymous with the American Communist Party, which he led for 40 years, has died at the age of 90.
Hall, once imprisoned for conspiracy to teach and advocate the violent overthrow of the U.S. government, died Friday in New York City's Lenox Hill Hospital of complications from diabetes, party officials announced Monday.
Although Hall mellowed with age and his party's slow fade from public enemy to historic relic, he never repudiated his beliefs or his rosy view of the Soviet Union as it was under Leonid Brezhnev. Hall outlasted four Soviet leaders and the nation, but not even the dismantling of the Communist Bloc a decade ago could shake his ultimate loyalty.
"Just as feudalism was an advance over slavery, and capitalism was the next step after feudalism, socialism is the next step after capitalism," he told the Cleveland Plain Dealer in 1996. "Socialism in America will come through the ballot box."
After shifting the party goal from violent overthrow of democracy toward what he saw as "a peaceful, democratic road to socialism" in the mid-1960s, Hall waged four quixotic campaigns for president of the United States.
But he never got even 1% of the nation's vote, and never qualified for the ballot in more than a handful of states. He appeared on the California ballot only once, in 1976, the year he received his highest nationwide tally, a mere 58,992 votes.
Hall blamed strict election law requirements, which he challenged unsuccessfully in several courts, for his poor showing at the polls--much as he blamed FBI surveillance and Red-baiting restrictions for the party's steep drop in nationwide membership from a wartime high of 100,000 to about 15,000 today.
Never the ogre he was often assumed to be, the barrel-chested Hall in person was affable, nattily dressed and adept at telling funny stories over endless cups of coffee.
The man who said he was a born Communist and was inevitably introduced as "Comrade Gus Hall" was also quintessentially American. He enlisted in the Navy as a machinist's mate during World War II and repaired engines on Guam for the duration.
In a 1982 Times interview, Hall insisted that life in the Soviet Union at that time was far better than in America because of the Communist nation's total employment, free education and medical care, low taxes and housing for all.
Yet asked if he would prefer to live there or anywhere other than the United States, he exclaimed: "Oh, no. This is the best country in the world in which to live."
Elected general secretary of the American Communist Party in 1959, Hall changed his title to "chairman" in 1989 because he said he wanted "to make it more American."
Even his explanations of the party could make Communism sound as American as Mom and apple pie: "[The party] is a product of our American industrial and political system," he said, "like mass production, town hall, the Bill of Rights, jazz . . . blues and baseball."
Hall also had a few trappings of the capitalism he so soundly denounced in speeches, on television talk shows and in a dozen pro-Communist books and innumerable pamphlets.
In a 1990 Times interview, he blamed the fall of the Eastern European Communist nations on residents' lust for "gadget socialism: videotapes, microwave ovens, computers, all kinds of gadgets." Yet he had earlier confessed to a Times interviewer that he himself was "a gadget man" who bought every new item on the market, something never possible in his admired Soviet Union.
And he lived in a bourgeois house in suburban Yonkers, N.Y., where he painted pictures of woodpeckers and traveled by chauffeured limousine.
He had to buy the house, he told The Times, because no landlord "would rent to a Communist leader," and he needed the chauffeur, first because New York denied him a driver's license and later for "security reasons."
The driver's license hassle harked back to Hall's 1949 conviction for violating the Alien Registration Act, popularly known as the Smith Act.
Then general secretary of the party in Ohio, Hall, along with 11 colleagues, was indicted in 1948 for violation of the Smith Act, passed during the war era, and convicted the next year. He spent much of the lengthy, highly publicized trial in jail for contempt of court over his outbursts, but after the trial he continued to lead the party during appeals.
After the Supreme Court upheld the conviction in 1951, Hall and three co-defendants jumped bail and fled to Mexico, hoping to make their way to a haven in Moscow.
Captured three months later, Hall served more than 5 1/2 years in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary. There his next-door cell neighbor was the notorious bank robber George "Machine Gun" Kelly, whom Hall assured The Times was "a nice fellow."
Born Arvo Kusta Halberg in Iron, Minn., the patriarch of American Communism used various aliases in his youth, including John Howell and John Hollberg, but legally adopted the name Gus Hall in the mid-1930s.
One of 10 children of a frequently unemployed immigrant Finnish iron miner and union organizer, he grew up in what he once described as "semi-starvation." His parents helped organize the American Communist Party and recruited him for membership in his teens.
Hall dropped out of school after the eighth grade and worked as a lumberjack, iron miner, steelworker and union organizer. His hardscrabble experiences in the logging camps, mines and mills convinced him of the rightness of Communism.
By 1926, at 16, he was a national committee member of the Young Communist League. His work in the party won him admission to the Lenin Institute, a Communist training facility in Moscow, where he spent the early 1930s. By 1934, he was on the national committee of the American Communist Party.
Frequently jailed for inciting riots during his union- and strike-organizing days in the upper Midwest during the 1930s, Hall made his first attempt at political campaigning in 1935, running for the City Council in Youngstown, Ohio.
He later ran for Ohio governor. But, disdainful of regulations, he served another jail term for a 1940 election scandal involving forgery.
Considered a better tactician than theoretician, Hall worked to rejuvenate his party after winning a 1966 Supreme Court ruling that enabled people to become party members without incriminating themselves under the Smith Act or the McCarran Act.
Over the years, Hall occasionally supported mainstream causes--championing civil rights and denouncing the Vietnam War as a "vicious, savage and uncivilized assault" by the United States.
He lived so long that many outside the shrinking Communist circle considered him irrelevant or thought he had died, but Hall simply laughed it off.
Hall is survived by his wife of 66 years, Elizabeth; one son, Arvo; one daughter, Barbara; two sisters; and several grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

[Charles]

Are we now implying that those who support Gore are communist? lol. Like 46% of the American public so far? The government got us out and through the great Depression by creating jobs and kept people from starving to death. Some people are too old, mentally ill, disabled to works. Some states are too poor to provide services and roads to a growing population. Reagan turned out the mentally ill out of the hospitals. A brilliant move that created most of our homeless and made the streets less safe. The he became mentally ill. Maybe they should put him on the street.
My health insurance went up 34$ this year due to the fact that I turned 40. I haven't even used it in the 10 years I have had it. Perscription drugs are unafordable for most people. You have to have some government controls on businesses. Because the are in it for the profit and will keep jacking up the prices. Now we charge 35$ a yard. Drug companies charge up to 1 or 2$ sometime 3$ a pill.
For industries out of control. Look at firestone, ailine industry making pressuring pilots work 18 hours a day etc
Government can do alot of good. If Bush wins he will be a part of the government and he will have to know how to work with congress to get anything done.

[65hoss]

I'm not real sure what you saw after the debate, but every channel I watched had the majority favoring Bush. Actually the internet polls were even greater toward Bush. Gore got out of hand during the debate. Such as getting in Bushs' face. Always needing the last word. Just goes to show that he isn't in control of himself. We don't need someone like that in the middle of negotiations in the middle east.

P.S. This is something for all of us to think about (Rep. & Dems.). The surplus of cash that both parties are talking about is not a budget surplus. Its a tax surplus. Also, its little known that as we sit here, there is already plans for that money out there. In reality, there might not be anything for either candidate.

http://www.quorum.org/servlet/CandComp?partner=ROCK103.COM

[parkwest]

Charles

One word for you "Liberty."

Webster dictionary definition: Freedom from an arbitrary or despotic government.

The constitution was written to protect us, the people, from a tyrannical gov't.

These people want to tell us what is best for our families when they can't take care of their own.

[crew]

Hoss, you sound like your getting a little paranoid with the cryptic references to "plans for the money". That money only exists in some accountants dream. Have you been following the stock market latley. I f you want to see disappearing money, check it out.

Why are you republicans always whining about paying your taxes. I would extend an invitation for you to move somewhere else if taxes are too great a burden. Maybe Mexico, its close and the weather is great. The taxes are really low too. Sure most of the roads are dirt and a paint can full of burning deisel is a government issue contruction signal, but what do you want for nothing. The great thing is you can hook up with a dope dealer, pay off a few underpaid cops(so they can supplement their meager government wages) and make boatloads of tax free pesos.

God help me, Ilove this. We would probably be shot in many parts of the world for talking like this. This country is the greatest in the history of the world and neither al or george can screw that up, although I still think GWB could make a good run at it!
Liberty -same root as liberal! I rest my case.

[Edited by crew on 10-19-2000 at 12:35 AM]

[cos]

Charles,

You forgot to mention the fact that, because of inheriting a huge debt during Ronald Reagan's years in office it would grow due to interest rates. Now if you take all the numbers that you presented (assuming they are correct) and show who's years grew higher during their presidency in a percentage basis, then you will see that reagan would come out on top. And, let me say before you attack me, I did say that the economy goes by trends and reagan was known during his presidency to work with Demacrats and Republicans to help iron out the problems that Carter left behind. I will say that I don't ever want another man to ever look me in the eye and tell me a bold face lie (I MEAN BOLD FACE LIE). That's why BUSH get's my vote.

[trimmasters]

BOLD FACE LIE, Example: "NO NEW TAXES"-George Bush Sr.

I rest my case.

[Keith]

"Read My Lips....No New Bushes"

[Charles]

All politicians havt to tell some kinda lie in order to get elected. The american public cannot tolerate the truth. Politician say what they what they think each section of the country want to hear. Midwest "I will do everything in my power to open foreign markets and supplement wheat prices" South "Guns for everyone" etc. Bush thinks saying that he will reduce taxes is sure that will help him get elected. Even though he know that the treasury can't afford to do that. Gore has his spending programs and he knows the same thing. But he has promised to balance the budget and pay the overall debt off. I haven't heard bush say that. Just like when Bush said "no new taxes" he hope just saying this would help him get elected. Cos, when Bush sr said this it didn't effect your support of the republican party did it? Reality will set in once one of these guys gets into office on what they can and cannot do.
You guys who want to cut out all social programs are being very cold hearted to the less fortunate who through no fault of there own can't support themselves. What about the woman whos hubby left her with 3 kids and won't help her? etc. Tornado, hurricane, flood, earthquake vistims need gov help
This forum is a social program set up by Chuck to help newbies get started. Its free isn't it?

[thelawnguy]

Someone should ask Lieberman if he could actually be impartial in negotiations between palestinians and israelis if he had the top job (next in line, right? Its a package deal folks).

I can see the nuclear glow from here.

[davesgs75]

am i missing something, or did congress not pass a balanced bill amendment some years back? if that is correct and i am not sure of it but if it is, then by law the budget has to be balanced. also i believe because of this the national debt is already scheduled to be paid off by a certain date. i saw clinton on the news a while back telling how much the surplus of money was for this year, and that money also goes to the national debt. now if that is true, how can a person promise to do something that has already beeen done?

[Edited by davesgs75 on 10-19-2000 at 05:49 PM]

[Charles]

Good point David except for the overall debt payoff thing. i don't know if it has to be paid off or not.
Bill, Bush said isreal is our friend and we will stand behind them. if that is not being impartial I don't know what is.
As for leiberman, the Republican have been itching to play the jew card. Just like a race card. I am sure he is american first and do what is in our interest. The world knows that isreal is our countries friend. I don't ever see any governement of our being completely impartial.
The last debate was the best one. It go more heated and less predictable. Brought out more of the real bush and gore. Who cares if it got out of hand a little. That would make it more less scripted.
If Bush would have stopped whining to the moderator.
"Mr moderatorrrrrr Goooorrre is picking on meeee and inttterupting me pleeeese maaaakeee himmm sssttooppp. waaaaaaaaaa lol

[65hoss]

Crew: I know exactly about accounting tricks. I am an accountant with a finance and econ background also. As far a the stock market, I have been a retirement plan consultant and still handle some clients on a part time basis. So I watch the markets closely. So I must tell you, that only if you panic and sell, there is no real loss. Also, go back and look, for the past several years the market has done this same thing at this same time period. 3rd quarter is a reality check and 4th quarter is a looking into the future time. As far a taxes, check out the founding fathers views on taxes and keeping tabs on the gov't. They understood human nature of people in power to tax and spend in the name of social programs. If your happy working your @ss off and giving a great portion to the gov't to give to someone that won't work as hard as you, then enjoy. You've given freely then. I'm not opposed to true needs, but we are not here to support the lazy or groups that think we all owe them something. Sounds to me like you are a socialist, if thats the case you need to be the one to leave the country. This is a country founded on freedom, which is opposite socialism.

Charles: If anyone really wanted to pay off the national debt, the gov't could sell off some of its assets (which is not constitutional for the gov't to own) to pay the debt off. I forgot the real #'s, but its something like 70 trillion in assets and 5 trillion in debt. That is an awesome debt to equity ratio. Maybe both parties should look into this.

[parkwest]

Charles,

Seeing how no one is born with all the knowledge in the world but one will gain knowledge thru education and lifes experience, you may notice how the older you are the more likely you are to vote republican. Traditionally the age of reasoning has been about 30 yrs old. Before that a person has not usually gain enough wisdom to make wise decisions.

So you see there is hope for you it will just take time.

You should ask yourself why you would want to align youself with a group which seems to attract all the fringe groups of our society. A very popular socialist group years ago was very popular with its young countrymen. It's leader claimed if you could control the media and the education system you could control the country. This was the National Socialist Party of Germany aka Nazi.

If you think you should have the right to take someone else money by force because you took a vote, I would like to play high stakes poker with just you and my three sons using that logic. Guess who will win.


Please remember one thing: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

[Charles]

I have made a few post Parkwest where i say I am 40 years old and a moderate republican. I just don't think Bush is the right man. I vote for the right man not the party. But if it were a tie. I would vote republican. I try and think for myself. I am not a joiner or a follower. I just don't blindly follow one party or another. Thats what happened to all those Jim Jones or david koresh followers did. Followed blindly like sheep. I don't want to be a member of something just so i have something in common with other people. Parkwest in case you haven't noticed. We live in a society. Its not every man or woman or child out for themselves. I believe in government helping people help themselves. Not just handouts. The government is now helping thousands get off welfare. The welfare role is now at its lowest its been in a long time. In this forum we are trying to gather information to make an important decision. A society with people helping each other and the rest of the world help themselves is far from being communistic. For the rest of the forums info. There are very few southern born liberals. Liberal is an extremist term. Just like an ultra-conservative. You know everything is just not black and white. Good and bad. There are alot of inbetweens. I am a gun owning, hard working, open minded grass cutter lol

[curlawngreen]

UUHH WHAT DID YOU MEAN TO SAY? AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

[65hoss]

I agree with you Charles. I think people are reading you wrong. I admire someone that actually thinks for themselves and not what the popular media says. Unfortunately so many people get their info in 20 sec sound bytes. I enjoy the exchange we've had. And at the end of the debate, I think we could have a beer. Even if its just a cyber beer. lol.

I think of myself as a moderate, even an independent. I think of the two, Bush is the best. I'm scared of where Gore could take us. He has a history of extremism. I think I can assume that if McCain was on the ticket we would be on the same page. But, the ace in the hole for Bush is Cheney. A true man of character!

[SpringValley]

Charles, if we just focus on one issue, say guns, then Bush is the better choice. Al Gore and the Democratic Party are anti-gun. Gun control is on their agenda. I read an article in Field and Stream last night that said if you wake up on Nov. 8th and see that Al Gore is president, then take a long look at your guns in your gun cabinet for it will be the last time you see them. Taxes and big government and social programs. That is all up to Congress. BUT Clinton has used the ATF and the FBI to get around Congress to enact stricter regulations on guns and gun ownership. The 2nd Amendment can only be changed if both Houses of Congress approve it and three fourths of the the states ratify it. BUT Clinton got around that and so will Al Gore by using the Judicial branch of gov., the Attorney General (who doesn't know what law enforcement is) and the ATF and the FBI. Maybe even the CIA. Who knows. I own guns, I will vote for BUSH.

Matt

[Charles]

I own guns. I think field and stream is just like the nra. Using scare tactics. Talk about extremism. There is no middle ground with the nra. They think if they give any ground that means the next step is the government conficating weapons out of people homes. I can't see this EVER happening. There would be such a revolt the government would have to back down. But this is the way the nra raises money, with scare tactics. They seem to work with you. Modest gun control we need though. Safety locks are a good idea so kids cannot get hold of their parents guns. Guns that reconigze the owners prints are a good idea. Because guns are frequently taken away from the policeman and he is shot with it. Background checks are a good idea so that the mentally ill have a hard time getting hold of guns. No one needs a rifle with a 20 shot banana clip. No one needs cop killer bullets that go through bullet proof vest. These are all common sense controls and will save some lives. We need a balance and compromise on all sides. Extremism has no place in the US. Al gore being a vietnam vet has far (as I know) never advocate conficating americans guns. When your kids steals your gun and mows down a bunch of high school students. I think you would be more for gun control. When you kid accidently blows off a friends head(like happen to a kid friend of mine) with a shotgun he was not suppose to be playing with. I think then you would want some kinda controls.

[thelawnguy]

Charles here's the answer to your question from a few days prior: http://www.blueprintforthefuture.com/

[zimm4]

If you want to pay more tax vote for gore!!!!!!!
If you want big government vote for gore!!!!!!!!
If you want to pay for waste vote for gore!!!!!

I am voting for bush. I would like more of my money.

Kyle

[Likestomow]

Charles,

I agree with increasing gun safety, but not licensing gun owners. First of all, remember that it's not the law abiding citizens who misuse their gun rights, it's the criminals. No matter how many laws are inacted, criminals will always have access to illegal firearms.

I say punish the criminals but uphold the right of citizens to bear arms! Don't get it backwards thinking that if you take away all guns then criminals won't have access to them anymore because they always will.

Gun safety should be promoted on a much wider basis than it is now. When I was a youngster, I remember playing with cap guns, and loved it. I'd go around "shooting" up all kinds of stuff. Then in the early '70's when I became a police officer, I drove down the street one day and saw a little boy "shooting" at me with his toy gun. That really made me stop and think. It hit me how insane it was for parents to allow their kids to "play" with something so serious. From that point on I forbade my children to EVER have or handle a toy gun. I taught my son how to shoot mine and I taught him proper gun safety. Later on bought him his own real gun, and he has taught some of his friends the techniques I taught to him.

Al Gore may not personally take your gun away, but he will be installing Supreme Court justices who most likely will. You keep saying you are a moderate Republican. Why don't you figure out just exactly what you are and then take that side and stick to it rather than bashing you own party? Have some guts… take a stand… and live with it!

[Charles]

Because likesmowin I think it takes more guts to disagree with your party when you think they are on the wrong track. No where in my writing have I said i think gun control will keep guns out of the hands of crimminals. I was just promoting gun safety like you agreed with. I think the rebublican party with down the wrong road when they let the likes of pat robinson and jerry falwell start running things. Well obviously they think so too. Because you rarely see these guys on tv and being interview by the news medie. But believe me they are still infuencing policy behind the scenes. The anounced in a newspaper today that they are sending a newslettersout too most of the churches with very biased info recommending their candidate(Bush) and that churches should give these to member. I think these extremist religious will come out of hiding if there man wins the election. But bush seems to be more of a moderate and will probably shock them when he doesnt cowtail to them. The majority of demos are not liberalist and they own guns. But they are interested in gun safety. Likestomow, show me, that mean give me evidence. Where AL has said he wants to take away americans guns? Show me proof or quit trying to scare people.
Something funny????
Bush W was on the David lettermen show. During a commercial break they caught Bush on camera whiping his glasses off the bottom of a the woman assistant of Dave as she was standing at daves desk and not looking. This happened thursday and was shown on fridays show.
Was he trying to be funny?
Or was he showing he was rich and she was not and he could dis her by doing that?
Dave didnt know whether it was good or not to have a prez candidate doing something like that.

[parkwest]

Heres one of many interesting articles on gore.

http://thenewamerican.com/tna/1997/vo13no07/vo13no07_gore.htm

[crew]

Parkwest, I would rather affiliate with the likes of Gus Olsen than David Duke. If you want to see the result of poitics of us against them rather than us all together, look at the middle east or Rwanda or Sri Lanka.

Hoss, I'm very happy to pay for schools, roads, the military, ag subsidies, OIL subsidies, aid to poor countries with starving people, aid to embattled countries or groups fighting for freedom worldwide, George Sr.'s pension(even though he does not need it), and on and on.....
you see thats the price of living in the greatest country in the world. We own the moral highground and the reason we do is the founding fathers saw the inherent dignity in human life. Not just your life or white folks lives or rich peoples lives or lucky peoples lives.....all life. If paying high taxes to legitimatly reach for that ideal makes me a socialist, then so be it.
It is ABSOLUTE paranoia to think the THE government is going to take your guns away. Just for the sake of having a well rounded, solid point of view you should explore the arguments of those who oppose your position. You might learn something. (I try to listen to Rush, but I quickly tire of his personal vendettas and attack politics forged in the Newt era.)
Matt if you vote solely on the fact that you own guns,youve blown it. You spout contitution and then slap your freedom in the face. Citizenship is a two way street and the decision of whom to vote for should be taken a little more seriuosly. By the way I'm 39 and come from an upper middle class background. Idealism and compassion dont necesarily have to follow the same curve as erections and quick recoveries.

[zimm4]

Did anyone watch cnn last night. About al gore.
He used to be for no gun control and he was pro life.
how do change from pro life to pro choice in less then 10 years.



My votes for bush.

Vote early and often. LOL. Thats what they do in chicago.

[crew]

So Al explored an issue and changed his opinion. What is wrong with that? Would you rather be lead by some rigid idealouge incapable of forming new ideas or changing old ones? George junoir used to like to drink alot and now is sober. Talk about a hypocrite!

It always comes down to the money. zimm - if you think you are getting money, think again.If you think GWB will somehow make government smaller, your dreaming. The days of a small federal government ended with powdered wigs. If you think waste will go away if junior is elected, your mixed up. He belongs to the party that pours trillions into the defense industry, the very definers of wasteful spending.

[parkwest]

I still think some of you haven't figured out how the game is being played.

War on Poverty. $17 trillion - result same percent still live in poverty. Only 27 cents out of each dollar for poor relief actually goes to a poor person. The rest for administration cost (73% overhead?)?? War on drugs-same deal. War on crime-same. Push for better schools-test scores are down. Anyone, with a little research, knows the average homeschooler scores almost twice as high on standardized test. Aid to poor countries-goes directly into dictators coffers.

Wiser men than us used the phrase, "a necessary evil" when describing gov't.

We need to help our elected reps. by keeping a close eye on them so they can resist the temptations placed in front of them.

No one by themselves can fix all the problems in the world. No one person should have that kind of power. But you can start with your family and after you have that under control, go out into your local community.

[crew]

Iam not particularly fond of government either. But it seems some have unreal expectations. There is another thread on lawnsite about solo operators. The consensus there is that it is too hard to manage people and accounts if you have more than you can do yourself. Try managing a microscopic portion of the affairs of 250,000,000 people! Government cant help but be inefficient.
To really affect change we need to hold politicians accountable and try to attract good people to public service. Campaign finance reform is a good step in the right direction.
The truth is that there is really very little difference between the two major parties or thier candidates. I live in the state that elected Jesse "the gut" Ventura. I f there is one part of his message that rings true, it is the part about having a real choice. I say we start a new party - the greens - we choose Charles as our front man....oh wait thats been done.

[Charles]

Parkwest where u get that info? You related to Bush? hehe. The murder rate in this country is way down according to fbi statistics. The median income for a married couple has topped 40,000$$ for the first time. We helped bring down a dictator in bosnia. The welfare roles are at their lowest levels in a long time. We have had the greatest expansion in our econony in US history. Lowest unemployment in history. The way you would think some people are crying for bush and a change. You would think we were having trouble. but for most people they are just trying to think of ways to spend their money. Even if you think all this sucess wasnt all due to Clinton and al. Why change when things are going good? Whats the big deal? Our unemployment in this town is around 2%. The only things republicans have to gripe about is clinton bjs in the white house.
I say it is smart to put out small fires around the world. Than to waite until they turn into big ones like ww1 and ww2. When we tried to be isolationist and that didnt work. Remember pearl harbor? We were asleep.
The head clinton prosecutor for the republican party had his wife AND his mistress in the audience. Haven't you seen the pictures of this? Moral, no one in washington has the high ground on that subject.

[65hoss]

Charles,
I don't think that 40000 for 2 people is much. Thats 2 people working 40 hrs and making just under $10 per hour. Cost of living has gone up so that must be taken in consideration. Also, the average family doesn't have anything more than before. Most families live beyond there means and live of credit cards. Bankruptcies are at an all time high. This is some of the reason interest rates are so high at banks. Regardless of what the market says, most people are not make very much money on investments. And real income has not increased.

[Charles]

Thats just the median income Hoss. Not the high end. Anyway companies are now have to offer sign on bonuses and more benefit to get employees. Whats wrong with that? For most of the clinton administration the stock market was booming. Made many man millionaire. If you think not, just try to get a home in silicon valley for under a million. Whomever is responsible for this economy we should keep them all in washington that are there now. That includes republicans and demos. IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT. And as far as most of this country is concerned it aint broke. As far as morals in this country. We got a church on almost every corner around here.

[Charles]

George W. -isms--yep George W said all this during interviews hahaha

"Actually, I -- this may sound a little West Texan to you, but like
it. When I'm talking about -- when I'm talking about myself, and when he's
talking about myself, all of us are talking about me."
--Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."
--Reuters, May 5, 2000

"I think we agree, the past is over."
--On his meeting with John McCain, Dallas Morning News, May 10, 2000

"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometime until
we get an objective analysis."
--Meet the Press, April 15, 2000

"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to
California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."
--Los Angeles Times, April 8, 2000

"We want our teachers to be trained so they can meet the obligations; their
obligations as teachers. We want them to know how to teach the science of
reading. In order to make sure there's not this kind of federal cufflink."
--Fritsche Middle School, Milwaukee, March 30, 2000

"The fact that he relies on facts -- says things that are not factual --
are going to undermine his campaign."
--New York Times, March 4, 2000

"It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in nature."
--Los Angeles, Feb. 23, 2000

"I understand small business growth. I was one."
--New York Daily News, Feb. 19, 2000

"The senator has got to understand if he's going to have he can't have it
both ways. He can't take the high horse and then claim the low road."
--To reporters in Florence, S.C., Feb. 17, 2000

"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and
principles, come and join this campaign."
--Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000

"How do you know if you don't measure if you have a system that simply
suckles kids through?"
--Explaining the need for educational accountability, Beaufort, S.C.,
Feb. 16, 2000 "We ought to make the pie higher."
--South Carolina Republican Debate, Feb. 15, 2000

"I've changed my style somewhat, as you know. I'm less, I pontificate
less, although it may be hard to tell it from this show. And I'm more
interacting with people."
--Meet The Press, Feb. 13, 2000

"I think we need not only to eliminate the tollbooth to the middle class, I
think we should knock down the tollbooth."
--Nashua, N.H., as quoted by Gail Collins, New York Times, Feb. 1, 2000

"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."
--Pella, Iowa, as quoted in the San Antonio Express News, Jan. 30, 2000"

"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
--Concord, N.H., Jan. 29, 2000

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do
when you run for president. You gotta preserve."
--Speaking during Perseverance Month at Fairgrounds Elementary School in
Nashua, N.H.

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."
--Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty
and potential mental losses."
--At a South Carolina oyster roast; quoted in the Financial Times,
Jan. 14, 2000

"We must all hear the universal call to like your neighbour just like you
like to be liked yourself."
--At a South Carolina oyster roast; quoted in the Financial Times,
Jan. 14, 2000

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" (yes is they? lmao)
--Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"There needs to be debates, like we're going through. There needs to be
townhall meetings. There needs to be travel. This is a huge country."
--Larry King Live, Dec. 16, 1999

"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"--Answering a
question about why he hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire; quoted in
the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999
"Keep good relations with the Grecians."
--Quoted in the Economist, June 12, 1999

"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is
underestimating." (thats for sure LMAO)
--U.S. News & World Report, April 3, 2000

[lawrence stone]

Charles is obsessed with presidential politics.

--Lawrence Stone from lawnsite.com October 23, 2000

[zimm4]

GO BUSH GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. BUSH ALL THEWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYY..............................

[zimm4]

I BET BUSH WINS. ALL YOU GORE LOVERS WILL CRY ON THE 7TH OF NOVEMBER............

[Charles]

Is it that obvious Lawrence?? lmao. ok i try to calm it down. Seem that i always have to get the last word(or words) in.

[Charles]

OOpps!!! I said that before I saw Zimms post lol. Like talking to a brick wall on this forum. ok okok I taking a deep breath

[thelawnguy]

"We have had the greatest expansion in our econony in US history. Lowest unemployment in history."

Part of this is explained by the fact that the Clinton/Gore administration, in the past 7 1/2 years, twice changed the way GNP, GDP, inflation, etc is calculated. Most recently they altered it so that the most volatile (and also the most used) commodities are given lower weight in figuring inflation, partly so that SS recipients will recieve lower COL increases. The inflation rate is actually 2 points higher if figured with the old pre-Clinton method.

Our expansion is/has been coming to an end, thanks in part to Gore/Clinton picking on Microsoft. Because of that mess, your paper profit in your 401k, keough, pension etc has tanked-would-be investors and mergers have been sidelined, waiting to see what ultimately happens-better re-think that retirement mansion, thanks to Al and Bills policies.

Unemployment is low, but that because of the huge increase in low-paying starter jobs-casino workers around here earn $2.18/hr plus tips just for an example.

Charles, if things really were as rosy as you say they are, and algore was really the prize "package" (a la Rolling Stone mag) you say he is, then explain why the man is in a dead heat in the polls when by all accounts he should be 20+ points ahead of GWB? Maybe the rest of us see things that your rose-colored glasses cant. You said it best, "Like talking to a brick wall on this forum. ok okok I taking a deep breath".

[Charles]

Oh what you are saying Bill is that the great economy is all a dream. Made up by al and clinton huh? lol I guess they are smarter than you give them credit for. Fool the whole US into thinking that most of them have great jobs and drive big SUV ss. Then came along the sinking of one company and whoosh the whole dream turned into a nightmare and killed the trillion dollar economy. Oh ya and not only did they make the economy up. Then they are responsible for killing off the imaginary economy. We have great paying new jobs being created in SC. Nice try though:) Well lawrence he ask for it lol

[Edited by Charles on 10-24-2000 at 02:40 AM]

[65hoss]

Buying on time. Big SUV's with added years to pay for them. Companies are growing to an extent, but with technology many jobs are being lost or changed to accomodate for lower paid workers.

Ex: When I left my last job as a retirement plan consultant, I was making real good money. I was meeting with the owner about 3 mths ago and he was saying that he would never hire someone like me again with experience because it means paying a higher salary. So, he now has 3 new workers, and he has money left over from my salary. So, yes, 3 new jobs but much less money.

As far as the economy, its not entirely fair to say that either parties are responsible. Yes, gov't has something to do with it, but its mostly free competition and the newest revolution (technology). Comparing milliionares in silicon valley is not a fair representation of the rest of the country.

[Charles]

I am the self proclaimed election moderator. WE need more input from other members. Thoughtful input and why you think that way and provide at least some evidence. We only got a short time to go to the election and then after that the administrator can delete this whole mess lol Especially if my man loses. Maybe one day lawn services will become a political force in order to protect our interest. We could get a lobby group like most everyone else. Million grass cutters landscapers, snowplowers etc could wield some power. Maybe lawnsite could be the starting point. Who knows.

[lawrence stone]

As your fearless leader (Minister Stone) I say we march on Washington DC sometime in early December.

I have proclaimed it the million sc--b march.

[Charles]

Minister Stone how about let them ride on their equipment. That sure scare the pols lol Here comes that smoking clanging.... That would be a cool idea for real. Minister Stone up front waving a american flag on his Toro the sc~~bs next, then the heirchy pulling up the rear and getting choked by all the smoke hehe

[Bobby]

Charels(political moderator)
I heard that half of the households in America can't readily access 1000.00 dollars without credit.
Don't you get sick of everybody saying vote for me and I'll fix all of your problems?
Nobody speaks of sacrifice.

[Charles]

Bobby, i think one of these guys would surge ahead if they just come out and be honest with the public. They should say "I can do this, but I can't do that" . But pols are afraid to risk doing that. Because alot of american don't want to here the truthe. They want to here pie in the ski promises and be dreamers. Gas prices too high ,blame opec. Dont blame the gas guzzleing public. I saw a documentry on the oil industry the other day. The reason all those oil companies and refineries shut down in texas is because when gas prices dropped to 10$ per barrel. They were not making enough money. They are staying closed because they don't want to risk the prices dropping again. One driller says it cost 1 mill$ in start up cost. They promise to cut taxes. because that what the public wants to hear. Spend this and that because thats what the public wants to hear. No one wants to hear about the national debt dragging our economy down in the future. Most people cant relate to us being 5 trillion$ in debt. All that matters to them is the hear and now. Not 50 years from now...

[LoneStarLawn]

You ask for the candidates to be more truthful, but yet you attack the way they speak. I understand that you may question ones intelligence by the way they speak, but honestly with all the things going on I bet Bush is a little nervous and the way things come out may sound a little funny. To me that makes him more human. I bet alot of us would sound sometimes funny when we are nervous or make no sense at all. I think you should also consider that a majority of the press are pretty liberal and have not given Bush a break in what he says. I understand that it is a quote and they should print it word for word, but I believe that most are just trying to make him look bad and disguising the truth about him. I take it that a reporter or someone else of the media had composed those quotes for public viewing. Instead I would have rather been more impressed to find a complete discussion with Bush to see what kind of person he is.

I would also like to here the good things about Gore..the majority of everything is about how bush is bad...how is Gore good?

[Edited by LoneStarLawn on 10-25-2000 at 02:49 AM]

[yardsmith]

Hey Charles-
median income is 40k a year. Thats great, but it's only relative, because expenses have gone right up with it. Gas is 1.50 a gal (on a good day), my mechanic charges 40-50 an hour for work, insurance costs $1500 a year, & property tax & real estate prices have gone thru the roof. Cost of living has gone up more than wages! I can buy a rebuilt 350 for $500, but a 16hp B & S costs me $1200!
About the scare tactics with NRA, it's facts!!!!! Already they have started confiscating what they think should be "assault weapons" at the drop of a hat, & even the police forces have no idea what's legal & what is not; same with lawyers. What starts in California always heads east.

[LoneStarLawn]

I believe its $40,000 per household..not just married couples so single people influence it as well.

You can't give Clinton all the credit..remember three branches of goverment which one is dominated by republicans.

Does anyone know the real cause of the blast of the destroyer at Yeman (I think thats right)?
The reason is the destroyer was there because of Clinton and Gore..they put many military ships (some where tankers for refueling ships) out of work because they felt they were not needed. (No they were not old ..oldest 1988..they last 40 years) so since were are limited on ships that destroyer had to dock there to refuel...otherwise it would be refueling at sea where no small ships could sneak up on them.



[Edited by LoneStarLawn on 10-25-2000 at 03:11 AM]

[Charles]

Lawnstar, the media and the republican and the people on this forum have been on Als case for making things up. It been all over the news and on this forum. Thats the first info i have found thats been collected to show how goofy bush can be. I just was trying to provide a balance from all the gore personality bashing. I don't think bush is the nervous type and not in that many interviews.
As for that ship being hit. That little boat didn't sneak up on that ship. It was just a lapse in judgement on the militaries part for letting that little boat get so close after they had been docked for 2 hours. Especially after they have had so many terrorist threats. How embarrassing this whole episode is. Security should be top priority at all times. So one in the military should be punished if found at fault. Clinto can't hold the militaries hand.
Why does anyone in this United states need an assault rifle? I use to have one lol> But the firing pin kept sticking. So I traded it in on a pistol. Big mistake now that they are worth more money. BUt I didn't really need it and its not made for anything but killing a large amount of people at one time.

[crew]

There you go again, wanting it both ways. Out of one side of the mouth comes "Clinton/Gore are gutting the military. They are spending too much money. The republican congress is responsible for the (alleged) prosperity we are enjoying." Out the other side comes "Clinton/Gore killed those sailors by cutting spending." Ridiculous.

Do you want them to spend more or less ? Do you want bigger or smaller govt. of which the military is the leading sinkhole for wasteful spending?
I'll say it again, if the legislature is responsible for the economy, the opening question on this thread is pointless. If the administration is responsible,Clinton/Gore are one of the greatest ever and history will show Regan/Bush nearly bankrupt us.
As for the confiscation of firearms, who,exactly, is going to take your or my gun away? The police? The military? The guys in the black helicopters? Janet Reno? The propoganda on this issue is so polarized that otherwise reasonable people seem to go nutty. Do we really need streetsweeper shotguns with 30 round clips? Do you use cop killers when hunting the elusive kevlar clad whitetail? Has anyone out there used the AR for anything useful lately? It is like the abortion debate in that until the side that feels threatened by change concedes the need for reform, all we'll see is irrational rhetoric from extremists.

[cos]

Crew,

What is the sense of registering a gun? That is just one step closer to having to take them away. Ask the british. Not for the purposes of crime. All murder cases can be solved by other tactics. As for your comment about shooting the kevlar covered whitetail, you never see tooo many avid gun collectors commiting crimes. It's criminals themselves commiting horrible crimes. If someone wanted a gun whether registered or not to pertake in criminal activity, they are going to get one.

Ted Kennedy killed more people with his car than I did with my gun!!!!!!(true fact), and got away with it!

[LoneStarLawn]

For one its LoneStar not Lawnstar since there is a lawnstar don't want to get it confussed. Also there you go again?...I don't believe I have been active in this thread but for a few posts and I never stated anything for that response. Security should be top dollar (correct charles) then why did clinton and gore make it not top dollar by taking those ships off active status. Holding the military's hand..hello he's commander in chief he is in charge of the military that's what we elect them for.

crew wrote:

"There you go again, wanting it both ways. Out of one side of the mouth comes "Clinton/Gore are gutting the military. They are spending too much money. The republican congress is responsible for the (alleged) prosperity we are enjoying." Out the other side comes "Clinton/Gore killed those sailors by cutting spending." Ridiculous."

For one this is hard to understand..maybe its just me. Lets look at it though..

#1 Out of one side of the mouth comes "Clinton/Gore are gutting the military. ....YES

#2 They are spending too much money..YES (on the wrong things)

#3 The republican congress is responsible for the (alleged) prosperity we are enjoying...Never said that but can't give clinton/gore all the credit.

#4 Clinton/Gore killed those sailors by cutting spending..not by cutting spending...the ship has already been built and payed for...just sitting ther doing nothing is a loss costing us money in the long run.

"Do you want them to spend more or less ? Do you want bigger or smaller govt. of which the military is the leading sinkhole for wasteful spending?" ...it's not that cut and dry yes i want a smaller government but we do have a budget for spending which includes military so the government needs to quit trying to care for people (I dont mean the elderly of disable) alot of people are taking advantage of my tax dollars which I'd rather go to the military then to someone who seems to can't find a job that includes healthcare...go get the healthcare yourself.

[Charles]

FACTS ABOUT GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH

The State of Texas, under the leadership of Governor George W. Bush, is ranked:

50th in spending for teachers' salaries
49th in spending on the environment
48th in per-capita funding for public health
47th in delivery of social services
42nd in child-support collections
41st in per-capita spending on public education

and ...

5th in percentage of population living in poverty
1st in air and water pollution
1st in percentage of poor working parents without insurance
1st in percentage of children without health insurance
1st in executions (average 1 every 2 weeks for Bush's 5 years as Governor)
Just think of what he could do for the country if he were President!

Please forward this to every person of voting age.


John R. Finnegan Jr., Ph.D.
Professor and Associate Dean For Academic Affairs
School of Public Health, University of Minnesota

[scottb]

Originally posted by Charles










FACTS ABOUT GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH

The State of Texas, under the leadership of Governor George W. Bush, is ranked:

50th in spending for teachers' salaries
49th in spending on the environment
48th in per-capita funding for public health
47th in delivery of social services
42nd in child-support collections
41st in per-capita spending on public education

and ...

5th in percentage of population living in poverty
1st in air and water pollution
1st in percentage of poor working parents without insurance
1st in percentage of children without health insurance
1st in executions (average 1 every 2 weeks for Bush's 5 years as Governor)
Just think of what he could do for the country if he were President!

Please forward this to every person of voting age.


John R. Finnegan Jr., Ph.D.
Professor and Associate Dean For Academic Affairs
School of Public Health, University of Minnesota



I kind of like the one about executions.

[cos]

I Really know who you are voting for charles. I kinda get the feeling that everyone here knows, so please no more of the cheezey states, (please).

[LoneStarLawn]

Ok Charles here is a defense for every stat you had.

Like tobacco companies mostly lies want the truth then click here...

http://www.georgewbush.com/FactFiction.asp?FormMode=Call&LinkType=Text&ID=1

[Keith]

Blaming Clinton and Gore for everything that is wrong and giving Republicans credit for what goes right? What is that all about? Clinton and Gore responsible for a ship being bombed? Then I guess Ronald Reagan is responsible for Pan Am 103 in 1988. LOL

Clinton and Gore responsible for this by military cuts? Hello! These things have to be approved by Congress. They can't just take money away from the military. And BTW, I don't think the US military is all that weak. How many times stronger do you need to be than your opponents?

As for gas prices going up, why did Clinton and Gore wait until last year to jack up oil prices if they are responsible? Blame OPEC? The US government asked them to cut production two years ago so US producers could sell, because they refused to sell at $10 barrel. Check into how much the big oil companies made in the last year and you may see why prices are so high. Check todays paper for Exxon/Mobil profits. Everyone thinks we should produce most of our own oil. We don't have enough refineries, who do you think would end up footing that bill? Not the oil companies.

[Charles]

I kinda liked that one too Scott. Long as they were all guilty. Sorry cos man I always diggin for stats lol. You guys come up with stats to counter my stats. And i will be exstatic. No bogus web sites to go to polleese. Bring the bogus ones here lol or parts of it. I don't think a will be voting for Bush. Lonestar, if Bush were nervous in all those interviews. Do we really want a nervous ninny with his hands on the BOMB button. Do we really want someone who can't form sentences correctly dealing with the leaders of foriegn governments. I bet he does plenty of this embarrassing stuff if he gets elected. I think Al can correct his embellishing stories. I don't think Bush can correct being ignorant

[Edited by Charles on 10-25-2000 at 08:27 PM]

[thelawnguy]

Listen to an explanation of Al Gores tax relief plan (Windows Media Player recommended)

http://stream1.iims.intelonline.com/ViewWeb/PremiereRadio/File/102400bush2.asx

Charles if we cant convince you to change your vote why we'll just keep you busy at the forum so you CANT vote.

[Edited by thelawnguy on 10-25-2000 at 08:18 PM]

[LoneStarLawn]

First off i'm not trying to give credit to republicans for anything..and yes republicans had a say so on the military cuts but what I was trying to explain is that clinton/gore don't deserve the credit that was given to them in this thread. Second, it really doesn't bother me that people like Charles are chosing Gore, it only bothers me that his reasons can not be explained. I for one would like to here the good things about Gore rather than the bad things about Bush. It seems Charles is voting for Gore based on the scare tactics that say Bush is bad. Even Charles thinks he shouldn't be president based on a few words that Bush say that makes him sound like an idiot. Believe me I agree is sound ******ed, but the man graduted from Harvard and flew one of the toughest planes to fly in the military.

Embelishments...LOL those are just plain lies..

"I invented the internet"...

Thats not a bogus web site..it has a counter stat for every stat that you listed..if I were to put on here it would be to long...I could do that if you want but that would just take up space...



[Edited by LoneStarLawn on 10-25-2000 at 11:00 PM]

[Charles]

Lonestar---there are 3 pages to this topic-- with plenty of info on why i like gore. Havent you read any of the replys beside the one on bush?

[65hoss]

your not voting for Bush?




lol!

[zimm4]

Charles heres the deal. When bush wins you have to admit your wrong. If the voting public is stupid enuf to elect gore I will admit im wrong. That means dedicate a post to this.

Also congratulate each other.

If gore is doing so well. Why is he stumping in tennesee?
As of today.

[LoneStarLawn]

Sorry Charles I haven't been able to keep up with all your posts on this thread, but the majority that i have read gave no reason why Gore was better..just the fact he hasn't been in jail and you said that was good enough for you.

It scares me to think that there are people voting for Gore...its even scary that he could when..if so I move to Sweden..LOL just kinding.

[Edited by LoneStarLawn on 10-25-2000 at 11:29 PM]

[Charles]

Well Lawnstar do your homework and read them all :) I am sure not repeating them.

[LoneStarLawn]

Are you talking to me or Lawnstar..if so I'm not asking you to repeat them..or just it

L-O-N-E-S-T-A-R..LOL sorry had to do it...

[LoneStarLawn]

Ok Charles I did my "homework" on your posts...90% have what bush is doing and 10% on what gore is doing...still lacking on gore pros..just alot of bush con's...

[Twotoros]

What makes me sad is the choice we are always given. Just two evils. Now the Gore boys are spouting if you vote for a third party it is like voting fore Bush . Since it is a close race the reverse also holds true. They are actually hoping for a low turn out at the polls . If all people registered and voted god knows the out come.
I think whoever is elected will do such a poor job that the next election could give a strong third party canidate.
The way it stands now I see another puppet president for four more years. As for as my choice I have none. I refuse to vote for the first time since 1972.

[LoneStarLawn]

i guess you can't gripe for 4 years then....

[thelawnguy]

If things in America are running so smoothly then why is algore in a dead heat with GWB in the polls? By all accounts he should be heading towards a landslide victory.

Here the reasons from Al himself: http://stream1.iims.intelonline.com/ViewWeb/PremiereRadio/File/GoreStandingintheshadowofBill.asx

(Wow, Al, a1, maybe a connection?)

[Twotoros]

Of course I can't complain if I don't vote . I can not vote for either of these puppets. I sense something terribly wrong with both.

[Charles]

Lonstar, I am not going to post info against my man lol.
Todays headlines:
The intergovernmental panel on climate change, the most authoritive sceince voica made up of 100s of scientist:
States that:"polution has contributed to global warming and the earth is likely to get a lot hotter than previously expected" You snowplow guys should be concerned about this. You may be in for milder winters SHORTER WINTERS.
AL GORE CARES MORE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.
In other news Clinton and the GOP near an agreement on tax relief package. That would help people save for retirement and pay for long term health care and give business tax breaks to offset the 1.00$ mininum wage increase. The legislation is expected to cost over 245 billion$$ over the next 10 years. Theres too much in this package to list

[parkwest]

Charles

What is bad about shorter milder winters? Sounds good to me.

Glad your guys weren't around during the last ice age, I can imagine the talk of doom and gloom when the earth warmed. Could there possibly be a connection between increased volcanic activity and the microscopic temp flucuations? Since one volcano splews more into the atmosphere then all of mankind throughout history. Hummmm??? Naw, your right the sky is falling, the sky is falling.



THIS ONE IS GOOD
Five surgeons are discussing who makes the best patients to
operate on.

The first surgeon says, "I like to see accountants on my
operating table, because when you open them up, everything
inside is numbered."

The second responds, "Yeah, but you should try electricians!
Everything inside them is color coded."

The third surgeon says, "No, I really think Bookkeepers are
the best; everything inside them is in alphabetical order."

The fourth surgeon chimes in: "You know, I like builders
...those guys always understand when you have a few
parts left over at the end, and when the job takes longer
than you said it would."

But the fifth surgeon shut them all up when he observed:
"You're all wrong. Politicians are the easiest to operate
on. There's no guts, no heart, and no spine, and the head
and ass are interchangeable."

[Charles]

Parkwest global warming means the weather will get more extreme. Longterm droughts in one area and flooding in another. I just reporting what these hundred scientist are saying from this institute. Not something I am forcasting. An ap story in todays paper. Ice in the polor region is melting at a rapid rate over land. This will cause the oceans to rise dramatically in the next 50 to 100 years flooding many metro areas along the coastal region. Is this good parkwest? Satelite pictures are showing the ice in the polar regions have shrunk dramatically in before and after pics. i just read this stuff and relay it. I don't make it up or event it. I don't even have a satelite in my backyard. NOTE THE SCIENTIST SAY MAN IS A MAJOR PLAYER IN GLOBAL WARMING NOT THE ONLY CAUSE. WE ARE SPEEDING THINGSUP OR ENHANCING GLOBAL WARMING. wORHT LOOKING INTO HOW WE CAN CUT DOWN ON OUR CONTRIBUTION TO GLOBAL WARMING DONT YOU THINK?

[LoneStarLawn]

I have also heard from another group of scientists you have some belief that we are heading towards an Ice Age..To be honest with you I can't believe either group until they have great proof which neither one does.

Also ...You haven't said anything good about gor but there has been alot of things said good about bush by me and others..haven't heard anything good on gore from you

[thelawnguy]

Heres a tidbit about one of Algores tax credits: The $10,000 credit for college tuition will only be available to those in the 28% tax bracket. And its a tax deduction not a full credit so in reality those who qualify will get 28% of 10k or 2800. Under present tax law everyone is eligible for a 2000 tax credit so under als plan certain groups will gain 800 while the rest will lose 2000. Sound fair?

As a United States senator, Algore supported increasing the age of Social Security eligibility from 65 to 67. This affects myself, and you too Charles. For all his talk about our solemn social contract with America's seniors, Algore advocated breaking that solemn contract. Bush has never made such a proposal.

As vice president in 1993, Gore voted to increase taxes, specifically on Social Security recipients. He wanted to take more money from seniors, many of whom depend heavily on Social Security for their sustenance, and he wanted to do this to fund an already bloated federal bureaucracy. Now that surpluses are projected for the next ten years, purportedly totaling $4.6 trillion, Algore still refuses to repeal that tax increase on Social Security recipients.

During his eight years as vice president, Gore has never proposed any legislation or plan that would ensure the financial viability of the Social Security system, and candidate Algore still hasn't.

During his eight years as vice president, Gore hasn't proposed a single piece of legislation to ensure the financial viability of Medicare, and candidate Algore hasn't made any proposals, either.

On the issue of prescription drugs, for two years the Democrats had monopoly control of the federal government. They controlled the White House and Congress in '93 and '94. During those two years, they never passed a prescription drug program of any kind.

The Clinton-Gore administration has already warned us that the supply of oil and gas will be stretched to the limit this winter, and home heating oil prices will skyrocket. Yet Algore doesn't have any idea or plan for finding, refining and delivering to the consumer a single new drop of domestic oil. There is no energy policy under Clinton-Gore, and there won't be one under Gore-Lieberman.

Algore's desciples are questioning the intelligence of George W. Bush. But it is Algore who flunked out of divinity school and had to drop out of law school. It's Algore who was barely a passing student at St. Albans private school in Washington, D.C.

It's Algore who, after more than 20 years as a federal official, claims he didn't know it was illegal to raise campaign cash on government property.

It's Algore who was the featured speaker at an illegal fundraiser at a Buddhist temple, and Algore who, despite e-mails and memos, said he didn't know the event was a fundraiser.

It's also Algore who was the only person in America who believed Clinton when he said he did not have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky and - on impeachment day - stood proudly before America on the White House lawn proclaiming that Clinton was "one of our greatest presidents."

The guy can't tell the truth. He lies about his mother-in-law and his dog taking the same drug; he lies about Winifred Skinner having to collect cans to pay for her prescriptions; he lies about discovering the Love Canal; he lies about inventing the Internet; he lies about himself and Tipper being the model couple in Love Story; he lies about authoring the Earned Income Tax Credit; he lies about helping to create the Strategic Petroleum Reserves. The man doesnt even have the common decency to fix the toilet and sink in the apartment of one of his tenants.

Why not read about Algores school record, for those who think he is the candidate of higher intelligence:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/Gore_s_dubious_school_record+.shtml

And read about how Al dropped out of grad school due to his heavy marijuana use:

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/9/7/223905

You sure this is the man you want for ou next president?

[65hoss]

hahaha.

I was just about to post the same news articles. :)

[crew]

What - are you guys on the RNC payroll? You should be for being such good soldiers and spouting the party line....Zeig heil!
FYI - increased volcanic activity would lead to cooler temperatures, kinda like nuclear winter. I agree (suprise) with Charles.Gore will do something on the environmental issue that matter. You can continue to doubt global warming,but nearly every scientist that does not have an agenda agrees there is a growing body of evidence. If you are waiting for someone to prove that there is no global warming, it may be too late. But dont sweat it (no pun intended), it probably wont matter much in your lifetime. Who gives a rats a** about the grandkids. They will figure something out when they have to. And look on the bright side - they will finally be able to grow stuff in the desert.

Lawnguy - seems to me your hacking on Al because he cant predict the future(no prescription med. prop.), is a loyal friend and doesnt bail out on people he cares about when things get sticky(another no pun), and hes a slum loard (agood capitalist controlling costs.

You guys keep beating the same dead horses.

I'll vote for Al because it's not all about the money. Sometimes you hold views or do the hard thing not because they are good for you, but because they are right. I like that Al practices good Christian values in his policy positions. He wont cast aside the less fortunate simlply because there are a few scrubs taking advantage of a system with great intent and mostly favorable results.
I'll vote for Al because campaign finance reform is at the top of his agenda.If we dont want lesser of two evil choices in the future, we have to change the way in which we elect people. Many good, veteran politicians have bailed out on a system that requires them to constantly turn tricks to keep the war chest full.
I'll vote for Al because he will protect a womans right to choose. I'm not a woman, much less a girl and its not my place to tell them what to do with potential lives that become their responsibility. Not to mention, people like Ralph Reed and Jerry Falwell scare the s**t out of me. Can you say Jihad? How about thought police?

I'll vote for Al because, in spite of all his defects, he's not a selfish, greedy, bumbling, cold hearted, anti-evrything rich kid riding dads coattails.

[thelawnguy]

If Al is for campaign finance reform then why is he still using soft money contributions to pay for his television ads currently running in CA and FL? Oh I get it, he'll start after the election-yeah right. Maybe if he's elected you can try to be high bidder on a Lincoln Bedroom slumber party and discuss it in person with him.

I agree his position on environmental issues is better than GWB's but its also the one thing he has the least amount of control over. The US has already banned CFC production but its other countries which have taken up the slack-why the heck did the Clinton-Gore administration hogtie this country with treaties and exempt China Mexico etc?

(Im actually glad to see someone else besides Charles is willing to stick their neck out for an obviously inferior product of our two-party system.)

[LoneStarLawn]

I appreciate your post Crew...I was looking for someone to atleast explain why they like Gore..besides bashing Bush.

[LoneStarLawn]

Has anyone read Al Gore's book Earth In The Balance...if not I think some may want to get a summary of the book. It really describes how Al Gore thinks and what he wants for this country.

[65hoss]

Crew,
Why don't you go and really check out Algore. Find his voting record. You will be surprised. Your info comes from the popular media. Can you say biased? In '93, he was the tie breaking vote that raised the taxes on social security. This is FACT! You really think he gives a flip about seniors? That little piece of info gets brushed aside by the media. That scare tactic that the democrats always use about social security is usually when they are in trouble at election time.

Give algore time and he will invent the next motor to replace the internal combustion engine.

Sounds to me like you should be on the payroll for the demies. You spout the exact liberal bs they do. The really sad thing is, you don't go and look for the real facts. You just say what the media does. There is always at least 2 sides to everything.

Speaking of 2 sides, what about this document that al signed to hid arms sales between Russia and Iran? huh? This is the same type of thing that the demies cried about with Oliver North. Oh, and the bill that was intacted to make it illegal for gore to hid the info from congress, HE WAS THE CO-SPONSOR FOR THE BILL. So according to his own law, he broke it. But I guess that's ok since he's a demie.

[65hoss]

http://www.geocities.com/j_shaffer_iv/Foolishgore.jpg



Gore in Nam!
:)

[zimm4]

Down with gore. Do you want big government taking more of your rights? Vote for gore!!!!!


I will vote for bush. He wants to streamline government and save me and you some of our money.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charles]

With the election getting closer and the candidates seamingly in a dead heat to the finish line. It seems that there are so many flaws in each of the candidates promises and plans to sort out. Most of these promises and plans depend on a surplus that hasn't even materialised yet. And may never come to pass at the rate the congress and the prez are spending money and giving tax cuts. Kinda scary that both men are willing to say anything to get elected and send us into the financial red area if they keep their promises. First thing is that all pols need to waite until there is all that money in the treasury and then decide what to do with it.

[zimm4]

Charles you have spoken some astounding truths.
Your right as rain. Both politicians are making a
lot of promises that cant be kept. I still think gw is the better of the two men. Also I think that gw is more sincere.

Of course when their talking about projected surpluses.
Its no different then you figuring that your biz will increase 10% next year {as an example}.

[thelawnguy]

The ultra-left liberal local paper has endorsed Texas Gov. George W. Bush as the next President of the United States. How often does this happen?

http://www.ctnow.com

[Charles]

From the Fresno(Calif.) Bee, Editorial page in part:
SURPLUS? ONLY IN 'FUZZY' MATH
When economist William Gale of the Brooking institution and Alan J Auerbach of UC Berkley, using standard accounting practices and realistic assumptions, recently refigured that 10-year, $4.6 trillion surplus Bush and Gore like to talk about it dwindled to $1.2 billion.
But the candidates continue to pretend otherwise....
Yea Bill, I was suprised that Scripts-Howard Newspapers went for Bush. Bush must have made a big promise to them. Or they are worried that they will have to cut back on cutting down the trees for Newspaper. Now the latter is the reason I believe. They mentioned in my paper that they did like his environmental stance.

[crew]

Is there any politician, or person, who will unilaterally disarm in an important arena? If Al foreswears soft money or any other kind of money in a system that requires huge amounts of money to even be heard, he concedes the election. At least he is talking about reform and saying it is a key issue. I have not seen or heard alot on thius issue from Jr. Does anyone doubt that campaign finance reform was Mcains' most important issue? Even he had to ***** money to be heard. You cannot participate without big money and I feel that is the fundamental cause of a corrupt system that breeds cynical voters.

I get information from all over, but rely on "the media" for most of it. Al wont return my calls and for some reason, I cant even find Jr.'s phone number. I'm not sure where you get your info, but it sounds like you are an insider or you would be relying on "the media" as well. Next time you talk to Jr. would you have him call me. I've got some questions.

The whole social security thing is very confusing to me. The story changes so much depending on who you listen to. Are we good for 13 or 30 years? Does all this depend on projected surpluses? I listened to a senatorial debate last week and all 4 candidates (Dem,repub,indep,costit)had different numbers and spin. All I know is that I'll be cheesed if none of that money is there when and if I need my share. The demographics suggest it wont be there unless we change something. Maybe that means taxing benefits or raising the age rquirement. I dont like the idea of allowing people to invest a portion of their SS. I'm not sure if youve noticed, but I look around and wonder how some of my fellow Americans dont just drop dead from pure stupidity! We will end up taking care of these people one way or the other. I suspect Jr.'s solution might be debtors prisons. Again I have more faith in the dems taking care of the people in this country who, for whatever reason cant take care of themselves.
I dont think the arms sale thing is "exactly like Ollie north" Al SIGNED A BILL. That is how the system is supposed to work. Selling arms to Iran in 1999 is a whole lot different than in 1984. The problem with Ollie and company is they were BREAKING THE LAW. Al was MAKING the law - BIG diference.

Now I'll ask all you Jr. supporters to do the same thing; Defend your position without attacking Al. Most of your posts are anti-gore.

[Charles]

I like the way you think Crew. I forgot to mention the Scripts headquarters was or is in Texas.
Religious extremist are behind the republican slide in the mainstream popularity. The anti enviromental is a major part of their religion. Not my Christian faith though. If you ever have listened to Rev Pat Hagee out of texas. He spouts off that putting the earth and animal needs before man. You are putting the animals on a equal level with man. You are worshiping the earth. Becoming part of the world and rejecting God. But in the Bible, during the flood, God saved alot more animals than he did humans. Because humans need animals and the earth to survive. We need to live in harmony with nature. We have one manufacturing plant here setting up a wildlife habitat on their property. A great idea!! Another textile plant planted alot of trees, plants and bushes on their property and landscaped it beautifully. But you still see other companies with acres and acres of grass land. Businesses should try to blend in with their enviroment and care about their neighbors and not polute the world. Sure it may cost a little more money to do this. But in the long run its worth it. And their would be thsi massive anti Growth movement that has started cranking up. Around here not many people want any growth coming even close to their neighborhood. Because they don't think industry cares. Well Al will force them to care. We can have a balance and cut down on all theses health problems caused by big industry. And maybe they will leave the little industry like us alone. Because believe me they are coming after us. Not the big polluters who can fight them.

[thelawnguy]

GWB has a proposal to shore up Social Security. Al has none.

GWB has a plan to increase our domestic oil production. Al has none.

Will either of those two agenda items go thru the Congress unchanged? I doubt it. But it shows the man is a person with some vision.

Al wants to reform the way campaign contributions are handled, yet he sees no problem with accepting the same money he is supposedly against.

Are we better off now than we were 8 years ago? Materially yes, with low inflation, low unemployment, and high rates of homeownership. But there are downsides. The health care system is in trouble. Social Security is on the ropes. The quality of elementary and secondary education leaves much to be desired. The so-called war on drugs has stalled. The country has no energy policy in place.

GWB is more likely than Al to overcome partisanship to get the job done.

GWB has been branded as inexperienced in foreign affairs. Not any more so than the Arkansas goernor who was elected in 1992. Nor Gov. Reagan of California. Niether was New Jersey governor Woodrow Wilson, or governor of New York, Franklin Roosevelt. Most are regarded in history as great presidents.

Texas isnt a perfect state, so I hear, but the governors seat in Texas is a weak governor position which means GWB had to get things done by virtue of his personality and ability to get two parties to work together. Just the type of person I would want as president.

GWB has a larger percentage of minority appointees in Texas than other states.

Add up the pros and cons of GWB, do the same with Al, and you will see that George W. Bush (he is not a junior BTW) is the more qualified person to be our next president.

(Anyone still thinking GWB is dumb, tonite I will link to a video which shows Al asking who the busts at Monticello are, and shows Bill moving away in embarrassment.)


(Added later) I cant believe the Gore camp has resorted to blaming their woes on the religious extremists. But hey par for the course. All the Gore ads curently running are bashing GWB while GWB ads are based on the issues. Typical. It is now too close to call, in the polls, in CA, once considered a lock for Gore. No more. Better double that negative ad budget. Ha ha.

[Edited by thelawnguy on 10-30-2000 at 07:46 PM]

[Charles]

Gw would rather Social security be dependant the ups and downs of the stock market. Rather risky plan.
Drug war has never been winnable. We should stop putting all theses addict in jail where they come out harden crimminals and never are treated. Put them in rehab clinics where they belong. And legalize pot which is an equal to beer. But then again this has become a moral issue by the religious right and repubs and conservative dems wont let this happen. We need to make more room for the real criminals, like murderers etc

[Edited by Charles on 10-30-2000 at 08:06 PM]

[Charles]

I did a reply before about the energy deal. You always say you want less Government. But now you say you want gov drilling for oil. Or offering incentives to companies in the energy biz. Well industry is saying they dont want to take anymore chances in the price fluctuating oil and natural gas biz. I am sure if they could make money in the long term. They would be pumping out oil and natural gas like crazy. But why blame it on the gov that they are not producing?
I believe the education problem should be a local issue. Not a job for the feds. Parents are both working and too busy to help their kids learn. This is the biggest part of the problem.

[turfquip]

The most salient point Charles has made to date, in my opinion, was a while back indicating the need for the president and congress to be of opposing parties in order to create a check and balance.

I believe that if the election were held tomorrow GWB would win by an easy 10 points. Poll results showing a tighter race are to be expected considering the source - liberal media.

The lib/dem filth know their only chance is to re-energize traditional democratic voting segments (minorities/elderly/MTV crowd) by convincing them that things aren't as good as they seem - which is contradictory to their overall theme of unequalled prosperity for the last 8 years?

The libbies have a problem right now though, which accounts for the 10 point spread I predicted earlier. That's the Ralph Nader factor. Don't feel bad though lib/dems....the same thing happened to the republicans in '92 with Ross Perot. Pay backs are heck....

Yes, LOL, unless GWB has a major foot-in-mouth episode in the next week, your exagerating, buddhist butt kissing, tree hugging automaton with the new bridgework isn't going to make it.

Instead, we can look forward to four years of substandard leadership by the other guy. And, a major shift to the right on the Supreme Court which is scary in it's own right. Will we see more fully-born unwanted babies thrown in dumpsters? More pot smokers jamming our prisons to the gills?

No more lesbian pillow fights in the Lincoln bedroom...and on the subject maybe Janet gun slinger Reno will be indicted for the criminal she is.

In case your wondering let me clear it up - this country won't be any better off 4 years from now under GWB - we'll just see a role reversal. Moderate conservatives will say it is....lib dems will insist it isn't.

Thanks for listening. Opposing viewpoints not welcome.





[Edited by turfquip dot com on 10-30-2000 at 09:26 PM]

[Charles]

Turquip, I didn't mean the God cares more about animal than he does human. But God knows how important animals are to our survival and to our eco system.
BUsh can win the popular vote and still not win the election as has been noted before. He has to win key states with the most electorial votes.
The economy is great nowadays. Its so great the alan greenspan has been trying to slow it down by increasing interest rates.
America was never meant to work perfectly. So why the push for change? W government won't be perfect either.
W still can't make correct sentences. His script writer hate it when he adlibs. Because he usually throw in a 'is' when he should be saying are lol.
Until there is campaigne finance reform that the republican have been fighting toothe and nail. Gore has to play the game in order to have a chance to get elect. In fact W has raised 2 times as much soft money then Gore.

[Keith]

Originally posted by Charles
Until there is campaigne finance reform that the republican have been fighting toothe and nail. Gore has to play the game in order to have a chance to get elect. In fact W has raised 2 times as much soft money then Gore.

True. The other republican presidential hopefuls were all but eliminated before even the first primary. With W's money filled Rolodex and last name recognition, state and federal legilators were backing Bush and begging him to run for the office way before he "officially" sought the office. With the money backing W he was the obvious republican nominee. Money and the last name Bush brought media coverage to upstage his fellow republicans months before the first primary. In straw polls the "unofficial" presidential candidate was far ahead of his "official" competitors.

Without money, you will not win!

[Bobby]

crew
When you say (a womans right to chose) are you refering to killing a baby boy or girl?
Could you explain why it's ok to kill a child inside the womb, but its murder if you kill him or her outside it?
You use the term (christian values). Somehow I can't see Jesus going around killing babies or defending a womans right to do so.
Your worried about social security?
Maybe, if we hadn't killed nearly fifty million babies so far (taxpayers) we'd have a better tax base.
This Idea of the government having no right to legislate morality is rediculous.What do you think laws are?

[LoneStarLawn]

I rather risk some of MY social security money for profit then get NOTHING....there will be NOTHING when I will take on benefits and the goverment knows it..that is why they introduced 401k...it's my money I should be able to do with as I please...

[thelawnguy]

Heres the link I promised: http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today/Monticello.html

[thelawnguy]

Oh and to correct some misconceptions soft money is money donated to a political party, not funds donated to a candidate or his/her campaign. You are limited to what you can donate to a candidate, but soft money contributions, those which are made to a party, have no limits.

Al Gore outspent GWB 2 to 1 in soft money contributions so far. Maybe he should practice what he preaches.

Come back over to our side, Charles. The birds always sing, the sun always shines, and you can walk down the street with your head held high. Especially come November 8.

[crew]

Lone star, its not you that I'm worried about. It's the numbskulls wathing Stringer and listening to howard Stern instead of working or raising their children that will screw up a system that requires them to make a rational, educated decision about what to do with SS money.

Tquip - STOP, your killin' me!!

Bobby, its been proven over and over that you cannot legislate morality(see war on drugs, prohibition,sodomy laws,etc.)
Whether or not a woman has an abortion is not your decision to make. If that woman or girl is poor, abused, incapable, addicted, mentally ill or otherwise incapable of being a loving nurturing role model, why would you insist she bring another victim into the world? To pay social security withholdings!!! Maybe you, personally want to raise that child. If not who will? The government? Sounds like another stinking liberal social program to use up your precious tax dollars to me.
Furthermore, as I understand the teaching of Jesus, he was not about dictating what people should and should not do. He was an advocate for change and a free thinker. He did not want to CONSERVE a corrupt system that victimized some and held others back with arcane rules dictated by an old outdated set of religious rules. He wanted us to be compassionate and kind, especially to the less fortunate amongst us.

Lawn guy - by proving Al is dumb,do you prove Jr. is not?
Al has plan for SS. You may not like it, but it is there. You seem to have a hard time defending your man without hacking on the other guy. Can your man not stand on his merits?

[PINEISLAND1]

Posted by Crew:


Furthermore, as I understand the teaching of Jesus, he was not about dictating what people should and should not do.

Must be a different Jesus you refer to than the one I know.

Moral absolutes are what He was, and is, all about.

[LoneStarLawn]

Your confusing crew.
You stated your didn't want another stinking liberal program to use up our precious tax dollars but you are backing gore??? Gore will create more stinking liberal programs. You don't want more children in the country for the governmet to support but you worry about those "numbskulls wathing Stringer and listening to howard Stern instead of working or raising their children that will screw up a system that requires them to make a rational, educated decision about what to do with SS money." Let them screw up with there own money ..not mine.

Plus I believe there are plenty of couples who would love to adopt a child and give love and finacial support to. I do pray for those who do try to get off government programs but its those who abuse it that screw up the system. The government should realize this and move on from supporting those who don't want to support themselves. Its population control in my book.
One last thing...it bothers me that Bush is being bashed about being #1 in executions...we the people had convicted and sentenced each one...he is doing what the people ask..tell the victims families that those criminals should live while their loved ones have passed on.

[Eric ELM]

One more week to go. I see Bush proclaimed himself the winner on Leno last night. Bush had on a Gore mask and said he looked very scary. Gore is on tonight and will probably have a Bush mask on. I'll be glad when this is over. This is too big of a thread to check all the time.

[Charles]

Jesus could judge because he is God. But he told us not to judge because we are not Gods.
Bobby you have about as much of a chance telling a woman not to have an abortion as you have telling her to give you a bj and not paying for it lol. Government funding of abortion clinics started because women were going to back alley doctors to get it done and killing themselves in the process. This is the same as trying to tell people not to take drugs. They are going to do it anyway if they want to.
Congress keeps borrowing from social security. Thats why it may not be there by the time we need it. Well one of the reason.
Texas babtist association dropped out of the southern babtist association and are withholding 5million$ in funding and jimmy carter dropped out. This is because the southern babtist association is following a too strict of a doctrine. These are the same people who support W.
Clinton vetoed a bill sent to him yesterday. Because Congress slipped in a 3500$ raise for themselves to go on top of an already 145,000$ a year salary. Our republican congress at work.... Yea Eric just 7 more days of this crap and it all over and I will be glad too. Kinda like looking forward to Christmas

[Edited by Charles on 10-31-2000 at 01:21 PM]

[thelawnguy]

Okay, if folks havent made up their minds by now who they want for the next pres they either dont pay attention or dont care so Im done preaching til next election but remember this: Als environmental policies are what took Dursban off the market, and Diazinon is reportedly next on the list, who knows what else so if you decide youve had it with lawn care as you now know it then vote for Al.

Personally Im not worried: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/index.html

[turfquip]

<B>Viewer's guide to election night</B>

6 p.m. (all times Central) - All the network news shows cover the election. There is much chirping about exit polls. NBC's Tom Brokaw says it's too close to call. ABC's Peter Jennings looks edgy as exit polls show weak spots for Gore. CBS's Dan Rather predicts Hillary will win.

7 p.m. - Indiana goes for Bush and other polls are closing. Rather trumpets Gore victories in D.C., Massachusetts, Connecticut and Vermont. The others follow suit. Time to make sure you've taken that Zantac.

8 p.m. - The solid south starts going for Bush. The Carolinas, Alabama,Mississippi, Georgia and Virginia all go G.O.P. Brokawignores these and concentrates on New York, which Gore wins. Jennings interviews Jesse Jackson who implores West Coast voters to "stay out de Bushes. We need hope, not de Dope."Rather kisses up Ted Kennedy, whow ins re-election big. Sean Hannity warns of vote fraud in New York.

9 p.m. - CNN predicts Hillary winning the NY Senate race. George Allen takes the Virginia race but there's hardly a mention of it. Rather trumpets that Joe Lieberman has won re-election to the Senate and remarks he hopefully won't need it. Florida still too close to call. Meanwhile, the Southwest and West roll up big time for Bush to build a
big electoral vote edge. Brokaw focuses on Gore's win in Illinois. All the networks cut away to cover a speech by Bill Clinton who can't stand staying out of the spotlight on election night. Clinton says America won't tolerate four years of Newt Gingrich cronies.

10 p.m. - Ohio goes to Bush but Wisconsin and Minnesota fall to Gore. ABC projects Gore to win Florida. The others hold back but report that ABC is reporting it. CBS projects Hillary winning New York even though the numbers now show Lazio ahead. CNN interviews Clinton who thanks them for their "faithful" coverage. The electoral count now reads Bush: 220, Gore: 126 but Rather says it's much closer than that.


11 p.m. - Pennsylvania, still close, goes for Bush. So does Missouri. Reality is starting to sink in at the networks. Bernie Shaw, in particular, looks like he is having an aneurism. New Mexico, surprisingly, goes for Gore after he promised the Indians there free peyote. This becomes the ray of hope at CBS. "It's gutcheck time," announces Rather.

12 a.m. - All the networks project California for Gore in a race closer than expected. Brokaw calls it a "major wound" for Bush's hopes. They interrupt Bush's speech thanking supporters in Texas to pass along this news. Jennings turns to Sam Donaldson and says "the country seems to be having another tantrum like a three-year-old." Donaldson agreed, "You'd think America would want eight more years of peace and prosperity."

1 a.m. - Washington puts Bush over the top. Fox News broke it an hour ago but the other nets are now gradually conceding it's true. Time to get out the champagne. But of more importance now is the race in New York. Hillary is speaking to her supporters so there's no time to cover
Bush's victory. Rather still holds out hope that the projections are wrong.

5 a.m. - A tearful Gore finally concedes the race, beating Pat Buchanan by several hours. He promises a smooth transition of power, promising to have all their FBI files, computer hard drives, roach clips and Chinese money cleaned out of the White House before Bush moves in. Katie Couric discusses recipes on Today but breaks down in mid-segment. Don Imus on MSNBC asks Joe Lieberman why he is such a weasel.

6 a.m. - The last New York precinct comes in from Chappaqua. 5,000 votes for Hillary, none for Lazio. All 5,000 voters are named Howard Wolfson. Hillary wins and the networks perk up briefly. Rather trumpets, "the Clinton legacy will live on." Talk of Hillary running for president in 2004 livens the news crews. Claire Shipman gushes that "all is not lost."

7 a.m. - Bryant Gumbel calls in sick.

[crew]

Lone - I was being sarcastic when commenting about stinking liberal social programs - sorry. Praying for those people may make you feel better, but does not help where the rubber meets the road. I hate to sound like a creep but, stupid people make stupid kids. One way or the other we all seem to pay. My wife is a special ed teacher giving unbeleivable amounts of resources to kids who, like their parents, will never amount to much. I've even hired a few hoping to make a difference, providing a role model,etc. I'll never do it again. If birth control after the fact is the only kind these idiots can use, we are fools to take that option away. You want to see overwhelmed social services, rather than responsible citizens who can spell social contract, overturn Roe v Wade.

Moral absolute - it's wrong to kill people.(not sure how this squares with conservative christians who support Jr., but absolute means absolute - right?) I am ashamed of the fact that the US is at the top of the list in state sanctioned murders along with such forward thinking countries as china,iran and saudi arabia. I wuold rather see the people we put to death in this country have long, miserable lives in prison.

[parkwest]

crew

The correct term is murder as in, "Thou shall not murder". If killing was bad then every man who fought for God, family and country, by your definition, would be a murderer instead of a hero.

[PINEISLAND1]

If you want to quote scripture, or tell us what you think Jesus would have done, then don't take small parts out of context. Moral relativism has no place in scriptural teachings. Its not "if it feels good, do it", or " who am I to tell someone it is right or wrong". There are moral absolutes, and if you believe in the Bible as Gods Word, then you are in fact directed to judge. You do not judge a persons heart condition, but we each are equipped to judge each others actions! Gods word even goes as far as to point out that we will even judge angels, so how much more are we not able to judge right from wrong here and now with Gods word as our guide?(I Corinthians 6). And God established an example way back in the beginning by establishing Judges for the nation of Isreal in the Old Testament.

If you don't accept the Bible as Gods word, or believe it to be true, thats your decision. But if you chose to quote it or represent Jesus to others, then do it accurately.

[Charles]

Most Everyone interpets the Bible differently. We don't want to get into a religious war here lol. So lets get back to the subject before going too far off the deep end. Both candidates have a religious background. I have had my say on the election subject too. Been a fun debate. May the best man win. Well since we don't have a best man lol. Let one of these candidates win. Whaaateever. Thanks to Chuck and Eric for letting us have this space. You guys can continue this if u want of course.

[parkwest]

Thats why we have 700 different religions supposedly all based on the same book of rules. It's amazing to see how some phrases we are told means so many different things. Kind of like the phrase, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Clinton/Gore are trying to tell us this has something to do with duck hunting.

[Edited by parkwest on 11-02-2000 at 09:48 PM]

[Twotoros]

These are the same promises made every four years. Wake up . The current and future(next 4 years) is a joke.
These guys will promise anything but remember it takes congress to get anything passed. Do some people really think Bush can dump Roe vs Wade. Congess wouldn't allow it.
They promise the moon but know they will never have to follow through. I am still not voting but have put my vote up for sale for 1000$. Bush or Gore we are screwed for 4 years.

[crew]

Amen, toros. The whole thing starts to feel like an insult at this stage of the game. Big promises that cannot come true. More programs, less taxes - it dont add up. I guess this is what its come to.
Charles is, once again, the voice of reason.

[turfquip]

News flash!

Well, the Lib/Dem filth over at Fox - lead by Sean Hannity no doubt - just unleashed the "story" Bush drunk driving conviction of 24 years ago. They broke in to the wedding party show or whatever that thing was I just watched.

This latest round of mud slinging will not have the desired effect and will further ensure a Bush victory. That Bush is a recovered alcoholic is no secret and folks, DUI is something that many alcoholics have in their past.

I'm going to revise my earlier Bush victory margin projection to a full 12%.

May God continue to bless our nation. Amen.

[SpringValley]

As I stated in my original post, everyone should vote. Read the following from Chuck Colson.
BreakPoint with Charles Colson
Commentary #001102 - 11/02/2000
Desecrating Their Memory: Why We Must Vote


Pollsters tell us that over half of all eligible men
and women won't even bother to vote in next Tuesday's
election. That is a shameful statistic. The freedom
to vote was dearly bought by our Founders -- men who
pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred
honor to obtain it.

Maybe the non-voting Americans have become so
accustomed to their freedoms that they've begun to
take them for granted. Well, they wouldn't if they'd
ever lost them. Believe me -- I know.

I never appreciated freedom so much as I did after I
lost it -- when, twenty-five years ago I went to
prison for a Watergate-related offense. Every day
since my release I have thanked God for being free.

I also know what it's like to lose my civil rights.
Since my release from prison, I've lived in Virginia
and Florida. In both states, felons forever lose
their right to vote, unless the governor restores it
through a clemency process. Oh how I missed that
chance to vote over the years!

But just three weeks ago, I completed that process
in Florida, and, as you may have read in the press,
Gov. Jeb Bush restored my civil liberties. Next week,
I will proudly cast my first ballot in twenty-eight
years.

Friends asked me why I waited so long to petition for
the restoration of my civil rights. The answer is
that I declined as an act of conscience. I believe
it's wrong that the law doesn't automatically restore
the civil liberties of an ex-felon once he's paid his
debt to society. I hoped that if I did not apply for
clemency, I'd be making a statement that would result
in the law being changed.

Well, sadly, that did not happen. So, after all these
years, I felt I'd waited long enough. But my
conscience was still troubled.

Then, last week, a man came up to me in church. He
said he had read about my right to vote being
restored. And he told me, "When I was a young man, I
was sent to prison for drug offences. In the twenty
years since my release, I've been a model citizen.
But that felony conviction meant that I lost my right
to vote forever."

Then he asked me, "Do you have to know the governor
to get your right to vote back?"

"No," I said, and I explained how a simple process of
applying for clemency would do it. The man went away
jubilant.

Well, maybe this was God's way of telling me I was
right to seek to regain my vote -- that I might
encourage other ex-convicts to obtain theirs. It's a
right they deserve to have.

So, if you're an ex-offender, call us here at
BreakPoint, and we'll send you information about how
to restore your right to vote in your own state.

But for the rest of you: Please don't for one moment
take for granted your right to vote. It was paid for
by the millions who fought and died to protect our
freedoms -- from our Founders, 200 years ago, right
down to the sailors who died just a few weeks ago
aboard the U.S.S. Cole.

Failing to exercise this right is the failure to do
your duty. It is the height of ingratitude.

Copyright (c) 2000 Prison Fellowship Ministries. Reprinted
with permission. "BreakPoint with Chuck Colson" is a radio
ministry of Prison Fellowship Ministries.

[T.C.O.B.]

I don't have a choice for president, but i AM VOTING AGAINST Al Gore. Do the research on his Vice President, these guys will be detrimental to our industry. Don't just assume because they care about the enviroment that they help us, look deep into the laws and commitees that they have supported in the past. Vote for them and some of you will be looking for a new line of business!!!!!!!!!!!

[SpringValley]

Thanks. That was my point all along. This has been a very interesting thread that covered an awful lot of different topics. I even printed it out once at around 160 posts and it was 17 pages long. It has been entertaining.

[Charles]

This is George dwi hiccup bush. Hic---up i watn to eb hic you prz of cub hic i mean prz of hic uppp of amrica. hey my cuff hic too tght u copper. Now wer wazz I...
Ok I couldn't help it lol.
A reporter for the dallas times---A pro rebublican paper says awhile back Bush denied ever being arrested before.
NOw who got the moral high ground. I know i said i was finished before we got this new flash Thanks GDWI bush hic up :)

[thelawnguy]

Big deal, the pro Al-ers still think GWB isnt worthy to wipe their butts, the GWB camp thinks it was all a dirty underhanded last-ditch setup by the Al campaign, and the undecideds will still be sitting in their Barcaloungers 9 pm Tuesday night pulling out hteir hair cuz they STILL dont know who to vote for.

[machine]

I don't understand how any business owner can have democratic views. I will always be for Free Enterprise & Free Trade. Our government has never been as large as it is today, don't let your freedom slip away vote Libitarian.

[Charles]

Machine, we are in the greatest economic expansion in US history. What busness man wouldnt like that? I refinnced my home at a very low rate a few years ago. I bought equipment at that same low rate. Whats so bad about that??? My customers have money to spend and so do I. The fed are trying to slow this hot economy down. If it aint broke don't fix it. In today paper bush spoke of his plan on social security and then realized he didn't know what he was talking about as it related to how social security actually works. A Bush spokesman had to apoligise for his misstatement---- again. The man doesn't know his butte from a whole in the ground. YOu guys want to elect otis from mayberry to the highest office in the US.
BUsh" Dick would yuo reed me a bedtime stry" hahahah he probably have to leave the whitehouse at nite and check in at the local jail hahaha What kinda judgment does it show to be driving drunk. I have done it, but I am not running for the prez. And too on forms he has had to fill out. He has alway left out the question to as whether he has ever been arrested. They said he should have reported on those forms that he has been arrested in the past.
I think I saw him last nite on that fox show "worlds wildest police chases" hahahaha.
"I am th gv or cal hic hic i mean tes hic texas, gib me anther drink plaeas.cinky i mean cheny. wers that nuk button i luv to play wid woohoo party time Kaboooooommm

[lawrence stone]

When it comes to drinking and driving W is a liteweight.

You can only be considered big league only if you have a DWI homicide by vehicle like Ted Kennedy.

[Charles]

Lawrence, I don't like any of the Kennedy's. Just goes to show you that alot of american people judge people by their looks and not by substance when elected them. As far as i am concerned the Kennedys have no substance. What a shallow bunch they are

[zimm4]

Bush will win with 49% of the vote. Gore will get
42% of the vote. With nader getting the rest..

[thelawnguy]

"The fed are trying to slow this hot economy down"

Then why do you support a party whose main goal is to further bloat the size of the Federal government?

I could never understand the appeal of Ted Kennedy to Taxachusetts voters. Maybe its because anyone who opposes him in elections and gets remotely close in the polls ends up swimming with a cement kickboard.

[turfquip]

<BR><IMG SRC="http://www.turfquip.com/e8.gif">***<B>Final Breakdown</B>

Bush 48%
Gore 39%
Nader 6%
Brown 4%
Buchanan 2%
All others 1%

[thelawnguy]

Final Breakdown

Bush 48%
Gore 42%
Nader 7%
Brown 1%
Buchanan 1%
All others 1%


I think Algore would have a better chance if his goons hadnt gone after Nader.

[Twotoros]

ok let's have some fun with these BOZOS . download this you'll need the free flash player to play

http://www.lumpyhead.com/executables/capitolill.exe

[parkwest]

Hey Stone

Is that where his secretary said, "Teddy I think I'm pregnant". And he said, "Don't worry honey, We'll cross that bridge when we get there."

[Charles]

Final breakdown:

GDWI AFTER ALL THE PRESSURE MAKE HIM START DRINKING AGAIN. HAHAHAHA. ONCE AN ALCHY ALWAYS AND ALCHY
Bush all talk no substance either.
Bush don't want social programs because he and his friends are for the rich. And they don't NEED any social programs. Oh ya Bush need AA haha. But the people who are struggling or ill or have a terminal illness or elderly etc, natural disasters, do need help from the fed. Lawnguy not everyone is rich and healthy like you are. Bush if God forbid is elected he will come up against a brick wall in congress just like clinton did. Congress loves to hand out money and give themselves raises and they love big government. Because they are big government

[parkwest]

Charles

You make being rich sound like some kind of disease. Think about it next time you see someone standing on a street corner, ask him if you can mow his lawn for $45 and also if he can give your little brother a high paying job.

I have two questions, 1. What is your definition of rich? 2. Why should the rich pay more for gov't services than any one else?

[Charles]

Parkwest, I say the rich don't need many government services. I say well people are making over $250,000 a year. I didnt say they should pay more than anyone else either. Where you get that from? I think everyone should pay the same % on taxes. But of course the rich dont care if social programs are cut. But one day they might

[parkwest]

Social Programs

The set of rules these guys took an oath to follow says the gov't can not take your property to use for the public good without justly compensating you. Question: Is your money your property or not?

Charles

That profit you thought you made this year, well your neighbors took a vote and think you made to much so they are going to take your money to build a animal shelter for six dogs with your profits. Don't worry the shelter will only cost $400,000,000.00 and the winning bidder is a contractor from China who promises to be very frugal with your money.

[parkwest]

You say your not for the rich paying more than the rest. The same percent is not the same as the same amount. Remember, originally the feds got the money to operate mostly on import taxes and from the states based upon the individual states population. But then it dawned on someone it was to hard to get the money from the states because the states were to powerful so they used the old divide and conquer strategy to go after the individual citizen who they knew would be powerless to stop them. That was also back when each state sent two senators from their state elected legislators to D.C. to keep an eye on the feds.

[Charles]

Parkwest, kinda think your example is extreme. Well maybe alot of people in this country are self centered selfish human beings. America as a whole is one of the most caring giving countries in the world. Alot of people in this country who made it big. Like to give back to society that made it conducive for them to make it big. Taxes areway to make those self centered, selfish types to give back to society. In a way we all depend on each other to survive. A product to sell needs a buyer to buy. What good is our business without the customers? America is not just a free ride to riches. You have to pay to play. And hopefully make more money then you pay. The rich need the poor to service their basic needs. The rich therefore should care to keep the poor happy. The rich for the most part are not into manuel labor or menial task. But they need water and sewer and roads to travel and groceries, police protection, fire dept, builders, lawn care. You just never know when you might lose all you have and then society to help you. Then you be crying for those social programs. If we just become a country of haves and have not. A country where no one care about their fellow man. The what good is money going to do anyone. When their is strife and class warfare? Help the poor and the ill and the struggling help themselves and then we will all be better off.

[parkwest]

Why do you think you have the right to decide if someone else is being selfish? You can give all you want. The point is you do not have the right to make someone else do what they don't want to do.

Simple tax form:

One line for what is owed for national defense, all other programs you can go down and check off how much you would like to give.

One last thing before you vote Charles, please whatever you do, DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT read your constitution. It is written in plain English and if you do read it you will only be more confused.

If you are trying to control a group of people would be easier if that group was as smart or smarter than you or if the group was totally ignorant of what is right and wrong and had to wait for you to tell them?

[thelawnguy]

"You just never know when you might lose all you have and then society to help you. Then you be crying for those social programs"

I left home at 18 with a minimum wage job and a 2 room flat and moved up from there with absolutely no help at all from govt (or mama).

Who do you think would end up in a better situation, one who had all their needs handed to them i.e. welfare food stamps etc or one who was provided for, provided that they helped themselves, i.e. job training, volunteer work, maybe a job?

The city I work in, made big waves by requiring all welfare recipients to have to work for their benefits (unless severely disabled) guess what, the welfare rolls are cut more than half once folks figured without a free ride they would do better providing for themselves rather than having govt do it for them. Job training and career counseling was provided. The Dems are still hollerin'. You now also must perform 30 hours min. of community service over 4 years to graduate from high school. Dems still squawk about that, unfair, cold-hearted publicans but since then gang activity has gone down, graffiti has dropped off, I could go on and on.

[crew]

Charles, there is no I in democrat (or charles or crew).

So Jr. is a drunk - big deal." he will surround himself with good people". As long as Jack Daniels and Jim Beam have places in his cabinet, he'll be too hammered to remember where he left that funny suitcase with the buttons.

Someone wins, the sun rises on wednsday, and very little changes.

[65hoss]

One thing that is being very quiet right now in the main stream media is the arrest of Algore. Yes, thats right, it seems that Al was arrested 1 maybe 2 times in the late 60's. I'm in TN and it came to attention on fri. afternoon, but guess what, no media coverage!!! Hummm. Seems that he was arrested for reckless driving and speeding. His daddy tried to get him off. Unlike GW, he took his responsibility and didn't try to use daddy to get him off. Anyway, Gore said he had never been arrested! Well, about the time he arrived in Memphis on fri. afternoon, he quietly made some sort of disclosure and then swept it under the rug.

Lets not forget that he sponsored a law in 93 and then broke the same law later to hid info from the congress on Russian arms sales. If found guilty, this is something he could be arrested over!

And Charles, that is not exactly funny on the alchy stuff. Alcohol has effected every single family in America. Many people drink alot, but most never will admit it and deal with it. I think its unfair to keep thinking he would start drinking because of pressure. You don't know the man. Your just quoting what the popular liberal media keeps telling you. People do change, people do go in different directions, and people do mature.

[65hoss]

The Algore campaign insists on making experience an issue, that, and some other things. Well, you know, my friends, you can judge a man by the company he keeps. Algore is supported by Larry Flynt, George Bush by Colin Powell. Algore is supported by a president who was impeached, held in contempt by a federal judge for obstruction and faces disbarment. George Bush is supported by Griffin Bell, former Democratic Attorney General who served under Jimmy Carter. But, since Algore insists on making experience an issue, that cuts both ways. What has Algore accomplished as vice president? The answer is nothing. In fact, the vice presidency is the weakest of all Constitutional offices. What has Algore done as vice president? The answer: he's broken the law. From the Buddhist Temple, "No controlling legal authority," and raising campaign cash in the White House, Algore has broken the law and praised others for doing the same. We all remember impeachment day and Algore's service to his boss as the number one cheerleader. He has no executive experience of any kind in the private or the public sector. He's never
managed anything larger than a small, personal staff. And when it comes to intelligence, there's only one candidate who flunked out of Divinity school, his name is Algore. Only
one candidate dropped out of law school because his grades were so bad, his name is Algore. Yeah, it's true, Bush may have sown some wild oats in his youth but Algore was just plain dumb in his youth and unfortunately there's no evidence that he has improved with age.

[turfquip]

65 hoss,

All excellent points. And well put forth. Funny how in these last few days Charles and others of his kind have turned to character asassination, personal attacks. Out of desperation no doubt.

Al Gore is a 'One Worlder' and would like to see our nation under UN control at some point in the future and has as much as said so. Americans are not like other peoples. We are not all equal in this world. I, like many others will take up arms to defend our country against tyranny right here, on our soil if necessary.

Al Gore makes me puke. He's turned to gimmicks for 'impression building' ex:

at every rally now he takes off his jacket which symbolizes 'I'm ready to get down to business';

french kisses his wife which communicates 'I'm a family man - different and distinct from Bill Clinton';

his photo on the cover of rolling stone (pandering to MTV crowd) was complete with an AIRBRUSHED CROTCH to make him look 'verile and in charge'.

The lib/dem filth have one more trump card to play. And that would be an Al Gore victory through electoral college votes after a clear popular victory by GWB. I wouldn't put it past them. They've demonstrated they'll do whatever it takes to continue to lead America closer to socialism.

A scenario like that could, create anarchy in America. I don't support that.

[MOW ED]

Thank God that this will be over in another day.

Chuck Keough for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Charles]

65Hoss, I think you got that post backwords LOL. Cloin powell screwed over in somalia and then retired right in the middle of the screw up. Colin Powel let sadam and most of his republican guard stay in power. I read in the paper yeasterday where the republican congress has accomplish NOTHING in the past 2 years. Then they wanted to give themselves a 3500$ raise. Talk about nerve!!! republican congress said that clinton policys would ruin america and then fought him at every turn. Well america is prospering the best it ever has. As for NAFTA, the US has to build up a colition with it neighbors to counter the european union that is growing stronger. Foreign companies have brought many High paying jobs to South Carolina. The spanish population in sc is buying a record amount of goods here. Really you people have brought up no reason for change except that you don't like clinton or gore. Lawnguy you know i didnt mean keep people on welfare. I like the welfare to work policy that has been implemented by clinton nationwide. That gets people who can work off welfare and this policy has worked. I was just saying you can help get people on their feet in the intrim quickly and get them off welfare.
AS for the DUI, i brought up. I was just playing dirty politics lol. Drunkeness can be used as funny in politics. Where all is fare lol. Didn't mean to offend the rest of you drunks(myself included) hahaha

[zimm4]

We aint seen nothing yet!!!!!!
GW will make a big difference in all our lives.
A positive difference. We will regain the respect
of the world.

The next 4 years are going to be great..

Go george.

Hes stopping in davenport iowa today.
I am going to go see the next president of the
united states.

[JimK]

Jim here at TURF Magazine. I have been FORCING myself to only read this thread and NOT post-in. I failed. If it is any relief to anybody ... here's my theory: Both George DubbaYA and Al Bore are mechanical devices. I am virtually certain that after all of the Clinton foolishness, somewhere ... deep in the bowels of our one-party government ... someone decided ENOUGH with risking our gravy train to the whims of foolish humans.

And yes, I'm voting for Chuck. The only sensible choice!

[lawrence stone]

Ted kennedys greatest accomplishment:

http://www.findagrave.com/pictures/4569.html

[Charles]

Someone call a doctor Zimm has lost his mind. Must be all those grass fumes getting to him:). I would vote for Chuck too

[crew]

I, too, cant wait for this to end. I am as guilty as the rest here. We expect leaders who are intelligent,fair, impartial,and who play well with others. Perhaps instead of waiting for them to provide an example, we could show them how. Drop the venemous attacks, explore the other sides position(really - with an open mind), consider the good things most people have to offer. Corney eh?

I,m tired of attack politics. It arrived with evil Newt and just wont go away.It's becoming like pro hockey - I have a hard time explaining the behavior of these people to my kids.

I listened to another senatorial debate today and the republicans proposal for the partial privatization of social security has some merit. I hope whoever wins can put the BS of this election behind him and actually do something - anything in spite of all the hostility and mean spiritedness. I imagine some of you guys all jacked up after posting here, kicking the s**t out of your dogs youre so full of anger.

Forget the personality and focus on the issues.

[Charles]

WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD????
Age old question....According to:

VICE PRESIDENT ALBERT GORE: I fight for the chickens and I am fighting for
the chickens right now. I will not give up on the chickens crossing the
road! I will fight for the chickens and I will not disappoint them.

GOVERNOR GEORGE W. BUSH: I don't believe we need to get the chickens across
the road. I say give the road to the chickens and let them decide. The
government needs to let go of strangling the chickens so they can get across
the road.

SENATOR LIEBERMAN: I believe that every chicken has the right to worship
his or her God in his or her own way. Crossing the road is a spiritual
journey and no chicken should be denied the right to cross the road in his
or her own way.

SECRETARY CHENEY: Chickens are big-time because they have wings. They
could fly if they wanted to. Chickens don't want to cross the road. They
don't need help crossing the road. In fact, I'm not interested in crossing
the road myself.

RALPH NADER: Chickens are misled into believing there is a road by the evil
tire makers. Chickens aren't ignorant, but our society pays tire makers to
create the need for these roads and then lures chickens into believing there
is an advantage to crossing them. Down with the roads, up with the
chickens.

PAT BUCHANAN: To steal a job from a decent, hardworking American.

DR. SEUSS: Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad?
Yes! The chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed, I've not been told!

ERNEST HEMINGWAY: To die. In the rain.

GRANDPA: In my day, we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road.
Someone told us that the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough
for us.

ARISTOTLE: It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.

KARL MARX: It was a historical inevitability.

RONALD REAGAN: What chicken?

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK: To boldly go where no chicken has gone before.

FOX MULDER: You saw it cross the road with your own eyes. How many more
chickens have to cross before you believe it?

FREUD: The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken cross the
road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity.

BILL GATES: I have just released eChicken 2000, which will not only cross
roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents and balance your
checkbook - and Internet Explorer is an inextricable part of eChicken.

EINSTEIN: Did the chicken really cross the road or did the road move
beneath the chicken?

BILL CLINTON: I did not cross the road with THAT chicken. What do you mean
by "chicken?" Could you define "chicken," please?

GEORGE BUSH: I don't think I should have to answer that question.

COLONEL SANDERS: I missed one?

[65hoss]

Finally the day has arrived. I'm about tired of all this. Regardless of who wins the election, the truth is we need to all pitch in for a better America. Getting involved is the key and being educated on politics is the start. So, if nothing else, we've all done some homework one way or the other. We are probably all a little better off.

We all had to take a look at why we are for a specific person. Hopefully we got the answers we were looking for. As for me, I plan on taking a long look at some of the 3rd parties. I still believe in the Constitution as the guiding for our country. I think the Constitution has been compromised by PAC, special interest, and corp. lobbiest. We do need to regain the gov't for the people.

How we are to fit a free country into an international market, foreign policy, our economy, the environment, civil rights, guns, states rights, national security, and many more issues will be harder than the previous 225 yrs combined. I hope we can figure it out. God bless America!

[65hoss]

"Our rulers will become corrupt, our people careless... the
time for fixing every essential right on a legal basis is [now] while our rulers are honest, and ourselves united. From the conclusion of this war we shall be going downhill. It will not then be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves, but in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. The shackles, therefore, which shall not be knocked off at the conclusion of this war, will remain on us long, will be made heavier and heavier, till our rights shall revive or expire in a convulsion."

Thomas Jefferson

[zimm4]

I dont require a doctor. If I did I have health care coverage because I work. I do not look to the government to
support me or my family.


Bush will win!!!!!!!
Both houses will retain a majority.


Then the stock market is going to take off like a rocket.

The economy is going to explode with all the extra money we will ALL get back. Its our money in the first place!!!!!!


Just think the average middle class will be able to afford
our services. This is good for all of us!!!!!!



BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!