How do plumbers make $60-100 per hour?

[curlawngreen]

Who said the other pro's make more than we do? If you can't change a washer in the sink then you should pay something.
If you don't know how to grow grass then you should pay something.
WHY IS OUR PAY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER PRO'S?
Please list reasons. Thanks TIM

[diggerman]

Im in the excavation business and charge my machinery that costs $130,000 out at $90 to $100 per hour with operator that cost $18 to $20 per hour, copmare that to lawn care where your equipment cost around $6000 to $8000 and operators are $8 to $10 and you get to charge $25 to $45 per hour sounds like you have a pretty good deal to me.Its all what the market will bare.

[awm]

Mowing is maintenance.That same mow man
willget comparable money when he puts in
new landscaping which is more comparable
to your digger work.Ido respect the other
trades in fact used to be in plumbing
myself.

[cos]

The original post asked "Why do plumbers get a higher rate compared to us in the grass cutting and landscape field" Well the way I see it. You invest $25,000 for a truck, $1,600 for a trailer, $6,000 for a ztr, $4,500 for a walk behind, $250 a piece for weed trimmer,$450 for a back pak blower, so on and so forth, and the rate of return is set at $40 to $50 an hour tops, though you are performing the service various times throughout the year and a plumber that has various hand tools and van can get atleast $60 to $65, kinda sounds a little steep to me. If you ask me I think the rate should be set higher but who knows why.

[leeslawncare]

Well,want 2 cents? i don't know much about plumbimg but hot on the left cold on the right an S*** don't run up hill .but those guys stay busy as much as we do . ever see a plumber that wasn't COVERED up?I've got a client that is a plumber an from talking to him an i've did this myself an i know it doesn't take 100$$ to put in a toilet much less rebuild one!!!!those guys make some jack$$$.Well thats my 2 cents

[EDL]

Plumbers can charge that because they are a licensed proffesinal. I am sure if landscapers were licensed there would be less of them and prices for landscapers would go up. Tom

[Keith]

If we charged a $70 or so an hour, alot more of our customers would be mowing themselves :) It all has to do with how often they are needed too. A customer may need a plumber every couple of years. His charge doesn't stand out like our's does. We are there every week. If they needed a plumber every week, he would be fired :) Plus you don't have to mess with human waste.

[jannan]

A plumber is a SKILLED TRADESMAN (or at least the ones getting $6o-$100 an hr should be). He is not generally competeing with high school/college students,firemen ,school teachers,laid off coal miners, retirees, and anyone else trying to turn an extra buck. I know that we all feel that we are skilled, but fitting pipe and installing it so that it doesn't hammer, sweating a joint in a place without burning down a house, installing a toilet that dosen't leak and ruin a floor or ceiling, is alot harder than cutting grass, I don't care how good you are. Just my thoughts.

[Skookum]

You guys do not get $60.00 per hour? I do! I charge $1.00 a minute for straight mowing and trimming.

I use to be happy getting $25-40 an hour depending on each job. I found that as I got busier I would go bid on a job that I really did not want. So, I would bid high, Guess what, I'd get the job. I got to a point that I finally was so well absorbed for a one man show with ocassional help. So, I cancelled service to all those that were just plain problems and began charging $60.00 an hour to all new bids. It worked.

I now work less hours per week, but make the same. I have not had one complaint call in over three years. The lack of headaches are unreal. Seems those that are willing to pay that amount do not call when I did not mow in 8 days, or I mowed in 5 instead of 7. As long as it is mowed and looks nice they leave me alone, pay the bill, and recomend me to others.

[eslawns]

Plumbers have to crawl under houses, deal with body excrements, know codes, and figure out a way to keep the help from standing around in the supply house drinking coffee all day. Just like what we do, it's worth whatever they can get. Unlike what we do, not everyone can do it. Where the bucks really are is in HVAc work. The Co. my wife just left bills at $135/hr flat rate. The technicians get as much as $18/hr. Almost makes me want to go back to school.

[jaclawn]

What would you charge to repair a sewer line with human feces in it?

[eslawns]

More than $100/hr!

[Firebrand]

How many plumbers do you see driving around town with a couple of pieces of pipe and a pipe wrench or two hanging out the back of their hatchback? Compare this to the tons of yokels I see with a 21 incher in the back of their car and if their lucky a crapsman string trimmer. I saw a guy in a camaro pulling a el cheapo Home Depot trailer, with a garbage can and a 21 incher. Get this he had a door magnet with some lawncare business on it. Good Grief!! Unfortunatly or fortunatly, however you want to look at it plumbing is a skilled trade, lawn mowing is not. Probably 99% of adult males have mowed a yard before, not a lot have turned a pipe wrench or know plumbing code. And yes, I definately know that many of us are way more skilled than others at cutting grass.

[awm]

There is so much to be learned in this field.
Ireally dont think plumbing takes more knowledge
Some of us probably take it for grantsd that the
public knows the things we have to know .
But they dont.As far as our work being as hard
as plumbing or the other trades.The first
hot july august probabely sends half of the
people that start this work looking for something
a little easier.I take pride in this work and
in doing the best job i can.have a good one

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by EDL
Plumbers can charge that because they are a licensed proffesinal. I am sure if landscapers were licensed there would be less of them and prices for landscapers would go up. Tom

That's it. Nothing else to say.

[Lazer]

1.) Education required.
2.) License required.
3.) No economies of scale.
4.) No repeat (weekly) business.


Compare your business to trash business or painting business if you want a closer comparison.

[MOW ED]

Ah yes the great inequality of real life.

I'm not crying the blues here but lets compare wages for someone that might be called when your heart stops beating is roughly 10 to 25 per hour depending on where you are. The doctor in the emergency room makes 10 times more but the "initial" care you get from the medic and the doctor are the same. The Doctor can get more because of the "add-ons" that he can offer (plus he has a hell of alot more schooling).

I live next to a plumber and he is doing quite well. He is a super guy and I do work for him also. He is the business owner and I have had the occasion to talk to him about this topic. He has many expenses and overhead but the hourly wage here is determined by the industry. All plumbers are Union members and the wage is standard.
The thing you don't see is that he makes about 90% of his profit on FIXTURES which are like his add-ons. Kohler has their fingers in this pot too I think.
The mark up on these fixtures is where all the money is made especially in the residential market.
As a side note there are some add-ons that he won't do. I find it funny that these guys don't clean pipes. He doesn't own a pipe snake. If your crapper is backed up he will refer you to Roto-Rooter.

We do what we do for many reasons but the bottom line is that at one time or another in life we had the ability to create our own destiny. You can't live with regrets so you either have to be relatively content or you move on and do something different.
Whatever you do try and find the good in it and enjoy because life is way too short. And don't be to afraid to spend the cash you make weather its 5 an hour or more.Get all you can and spend it because like a good friend of mine says "they don't put pockets in coffins"
Good Luck.

[Charles]

ya I agree, that 6000$ to 8000$ figure is VERY misleading. In order to be dependable we have to have 2 of everything. 2 trucks, 2 mowers, 2 weedeaters, 2 blowers etc. One in the shop, what you going to do? We haul all this heavy equipment around and that is worth something also. We also do all the time consuming maintenance to keep this stuff running. So we can be dependable. We do everyhing any other biz does and more. So we should be compensated as much or more than a plumber. The public demands dependability and it takes alot for us to be that way

[cos]

I don't exactly love to come home smelling like fresh cut grass myself. Taking half hour shower to ensure all the grass is off my hairy legs ain't no easy chore. Not all plumbing work is all sewer work. I just love the smell of fresh mulch, that smells like my dog took a dump in the back of my pick up. :eek: Let's face it landscaping ain't easy either. Plumbers don't have to work in the brutal high heat all the time either. :cool: Well no sense of complaining, cause I am just in the wrong field to make money I guess.

[TGCummings]

I think awm made the point with the second reply:

There's very limited money to be made mowing lawns. That's just a fact. Get into the other areas of this business and watch your income grow exponentially.

If plumbers specialized in only maintaining fixtures, their income would be limited, too. But they go beyond that. They go inside.

Commercial mowing is good money, but landscaping is real money...

-TGC

[cos]

lawnguy,

So what are you calling all of us (including yourself). A Lawn Jockey? I did in fact say I must be in the wrong proffession if I aint making quite the money as a plumber. If we can stand the smell of nasty mulch and fresh cut grass hanging off of our sweaty bodies and getting paid the rate set forth by our peers then we can leave,but it aint going to happen for me.

[curlawngreen]

My hat is off to another LCO that makes $400.00 per day working alone. Please let us in on your "SECRET"
Thanks
Tim

[lawrence stone]

I have had days in the $1800 range when applying fertilizer and pesticides to wide areas.

In one of least expensive places to do biz in the country.

Four to five hundered is "normal" for "full service" solo operators with productive equipment, compact service areas,and the RIGHT contracts.

If you are working on verbal agreements on a per price per performance basis you need to rethink your position in the green industry.

[Lazer]

$400.00/day 1 man crew?....

.....isn't that pretty much expected?

My 1 man crew does that 4+ days/week.

[lawrence stone]

Lazer I like your 1 man crew idea. I need to buy two more pick ups and install handy ramp end gates.

I have more than enough equipment lying around.

This makes your laborer accountable for his actions and for the equipment. He also get to know the jobs and accounts.

In the next few years I want to just apply the fert and pesticides.

Out of a maxi van with my toro pesticide application vehicle. I can load a skid of 50 lbs bags thru the side door and load the sprayer/spreader out the back via a end gate.

I am also working on the idea of the ULTIMATE wooden greedy boards that opens to work out of and closes to secure and keep the equipment out of the weather.

[jaclawn]

The only problem that I see with that one man crew idea would be finding the "right" person. In this time of plenty anyone can get accounts. Everyone and their brother wants to sell you something on credit, so equipment is not a problem.

I think that anyone that might be capible of running that show would be smart enough to go out on their own and make more $$$.

[lawrence stone]

For the one man crew to work you just can't put him out there asap.

I work think he needs a litte instruction from Four Star General Stone of the SOB army!!! Look alive laborer.

About 12 weeks of basic training is needed. They need to know how to operate, adjust, clean and repair the equipment.

Always have a dog of a machine as a spare to thier assigned mower so they will maintain the assigned mower better.

He can always go his own way but he is not going to take any accounts for he still would need a pesticide license plus all the basic mowing equipment+ aerators and dethatchers.

[Lazer]

TruGreen/ChemLawn does almost 1 BILLION in sales - almost ALL with 1 man crews.

[Keith]

One of the older LCO's in my area operated with a number of one man crews for many years and had great success. His business is not what it used to be...and now that I think about it, it hasn't been in about five years. That was about the time he switched to 2 and 3 man crews.

[Stinger]

I've heard of a grounds maintenance contractor supplying the trailer and equipment. Then pay a percentage based upon the jobs completed. Self motivation, kind of like a salesman on comission. The more you sell the more you make!

[bob]

$60-$100 to flash the butt crack?

[HBFOXJr]

Plumbers get the bucks because people need them and they aren't too stupid or embarassed to ask for the big bucks.

Moral- You don't get what you don't ask for when your self employed.

You don't have plumbers, getting into the business becuase they think there is money in it and then cutting 25%-30% off the other guys price.

One day I'll talk about the overhead that some people don't think they have.

[AVRECON]

I have one thing to say Amen!

[Lawn Wizard]

Union Scale for Plumbers here in Chicago is $32/hour for a Journeyman. This scale differes around the country (Ibelieve Chicago is one of the highest paid). 5 year apprenticship, Union testing, State Code testing, City Code testing it all adds up! These guys are skilled, work in dangerouse conditions everyday its a bit more complex than cuttin some grass.

[Randy Scott]

A professionally cut lawn is a luxury!
A flushing toilet is a necessity!
You figure out which of the two can be done by the average homeowner.

[eslawns]

I know plumbers who make less than I do. I think it's just a matter of asking for what you're worth, being dependable, and TCB for your clients. I was averaging around $40/hr with belt drive WB mowers. The last week in June I took the plunge and got a ZTR. Now productivity is over $55/hr. I didn't raise prices this year or last, but have already spoken to more than half of my clients and all were receptive to an increase. Most had anticipated it last year.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone to pay well for any professional service. The problem is that (where I leave anyway) every idiot with a pickup and a lawn mower is "in the lawn business." I've had people watching me work come up and offer their biz card and ask me to send them work, then ask what kind of mower I have, while it's obvious they've never even seen a commercial mower.

As somebody pointed out, you can make over $100/hr to do chemical applications, mostly because not everybody can do it. At least not right anyway. You can also make more money doing things not every LCO will do. I mow very high grass, and get $80-$100/hr (more for city contract work) because most of the wanna-be's can't (or won't) do the work. A neighbor gets around $80 for pressure washing.

If you're not making what you think you're worth, ask for more money. What's the point of doing all the BS if you're still miserable and still have all the liability? Go to the Community College and learn HVAC or welding. My sister's hubby is a welder and makes $18.75 an hour. If he gets this job at Ford, he'll be making over $23. The money's there, so if you aren't getting yours, you're doing something wrong.

[roscioli]

THINK- The public sees landscaping as a skilled labor = $$$
They see lawn mowing as el shito labor = no $.
Would you pay $160-200/month to have YOUR lawn mowed? Are these people insane, thats half a car payment! Get the mower for $200 at wal-mart and push it around once a week and buy yourself a new SAAB! Anyway, mowing isnt tough (although people like Eric perfect it, and that is damn near impossible!) :) What people can do themselves, they arent going to pay much for. If they are super rich, and want a lawn like one of Erics, sure, they will pay, but the average joe, No way. My .02.

[Bob_McNaughton]

The plumber that does my mothers apartment complex work doesn't even walk in the door for under $150.00 an hour w/1 hour minumum.

I know plumbers doing 110k a year on 45 hours a week. Do the math!

Leaky faucet? $150.00.. Clogged drain? $150.00.. Caulking work and washers? $150.00..

Its a rip off, but they get the money! Every plumber she has had has been extremely lazy too. They complain about having to come out when she calls them! Its the same old story.. "I've got too much work this week, I can try to be out in a few days.."

Good trade, thats for sure. Their prices go up too.. But i've noticed the $50 an hour I charged for lawncare 10 years ago, hasn't changed.. Gas 10 years ago was 69-79 cents a gallon, and you could pick up a nice 48"WB for $1900.00... So what gives? Whos keeping the prices down out there? Time to change it!

Talked to a guy today, doing houses on my street for 15$ a pop.. Even though they are on my own street, I don't think I would bother to ride my mower over for under $25.00.. I asked him why he charges stupidly low prices, and he said "Because when I worked as a dishwasher at Dennys, I was making $6.50 an hour, so $15.00 an hour is big money!".. Nevermind he is too stupid to realise he has costs of doing business expenses now, not to mention no bennies.. Doh!

Anyway, I ended up telling the guy that once I get in the business next year, he can come over and mow my lawn for $15.00 while i'm out in Rochester (RICH area north of me), raking in $50-80 per lawn.. He didn't appreciate my humor. =p

[HBFOXJr]

Those $50 and hour numbers I see so proudly posted, are they an average for all the working hours in a day or just for on the job time?

If your getting $450 production per man for a 9 hour work day, don't come to New Jersey.

I can get it for irrigation service but not mowing or irrigation installation. I can't my 1988 prices for irrigation installs and they were not bloated then.

[WILSON BROS.]

I didn't read all of the posts on this thread, just enough to get the jist of the conversation. This is why Lawn maintenance people don't make as much as plumbers. Everybody and their brother think they can mow grass. You go out buy a ztr, cause your lawn looks nice, you can mow for money. After work, on weekends, vacation time, I've seen it all. The market has been ruined by people who want to mow for extra cash. So and so makes good money doing that I can to. That kind of mentality makes me mad, it drives the market down, and if a lco isn't serious about it that can give people a sour taste about lawn companies in general. On top of all of this plumbers play in crap. Do you want to? :blob2:

[dmk395]

Its as basic as supply and demand.

[khouse]

I can add some info here. I am a licensed master plumber. I have been plumbing and remodeling houses for about 16 years now. I used to be a licensed master auto mechanic (ase certified) for about 10 years before. When I was an aouto mechanic I used to think that the owner was making a killing. At that time we were charging $35.00 per hour and I was making $10.00. I decided I was going to do something on my own and make all that money for myself. So when I started my plumbing biz I found out quickly that if you make a dollar you can't keep the whole dollar. Well years later I realized that my old boss was just making a living like most of us. I know bill at $100.00 per hour and more on really hard jobs. This doesn't mean I put $100.00 in my pocket. I wish I didn't have to charge so much but I don't start making money until I reach the $100 per hour rate. There is a point where all of us must say (I can'r make money if I do that job for that cheap). Here is some hourly cost comming off the $100.00 figure. employee=20.00. insurance=4.00. yellow pages add=2.50. phone=3.00. health insurance=3.75. fuel=3.00.truck up keep=1.00. tools=1.00. accountant=1.25. city licenses=.75 and other things not coming to mind right now. This leaves a gross proffit of around $50.00 If I'm lucky after taxes I may put $25.00 in my pocket to pay my personal bills with which leaves very little. When I see a remodeler or plumber working from his station wagon I know he is hurting all the pros bottom line. The same goes for the guy with a 21 inch murray in his trunk! I really am no more professional that anybody else. It's just that plumbers and remodelers keep thier prices up and we let the unprofessionls go out of biz. This is what all pros should do. I will add that I repair commercial and residential mowers from my garage to make ends meet. But I charge the going rate of $55.00 per hour so I won't hurt my competition. The newbie lawn companies should do the same then we all would get the prices up where they should be. There is no reason for a start up company to charge$20.00 per hour when the average is $75.00. I say keep prices up as high as possible. I would rather loose money at home on my couch than to work all day and do the same. The thing I always think of is- "charge more, work less and you'll make more money"

[Guido]

They stick together and urge others to keep the prices up.

$100 won't seem that ridiculous when a homeowner gets 4 quotes all at $100 an hour.

That would take the edge of the actual cost of the work and focus the clients attention on the quality of proffesional service they want to recieve.

2 ideas for you. If you don't have a local association to join, make one. If you do, join it. Don't be afraid to discuss pricing with the other LCO's. You don't have to tell specifics but you can make them understand that you need to have standard rates in the area so that you'll actually be competing with your quality of work and image than just playing a number game against each other. It will be hard at first, but once it catches on everyone can make more $$.

and # 2 TURN IN THE SCRUBS!! :( I know most of us were there one time or another and maybe some of you still are and you can say we're hypocrits but screw it. I won't let a illegally operating 13 year old take money from my family. Now, this is only if there hurting you of course (going after your customers seriously low balling) Because if they're just there and they are beating you, you have bigger issues with your business to worry about.

Now, you take these 16 year olds and bring them to your local association meeting to see what they can be bringing in some day, and convince them their better off working for you, you have a new labor pool to tap!

Its a win win win situation but to make it happen it needs to be done on a large scale, at least at your city level.

If contractors like us worked together more instead of trying to put each other out of business it would be a lot easier of an industry to make a good $ in!

Just my 3 cents! Hope it Helps!

[khouse]

Guido has a good idea about starting an association. But I think these fine folks here at Lawnsite are in the best position to do it. Lawnsite could form a certification system where you would have to show proof of insurance, city and business licenses, list of refferals, uniform pictures-(you will get more money by looking professional), equipment list with pictures (no 21inch Murrays) personal history like past jobs and such. Also there needs to be a fee involved like say $250.00 per year. Then every year you would have to recertify. Once Lawnsite checks all the info and refferances they would issue a framed certificate and card to show your customers. Then maybe a standard price could be figured out by all the pros. This is just a starting point on pricing. Then there would be a Lawn care stardard of excellence. Then pricing may be on a more level field. This would run small business out and raise the pricing and standards for the companies staying in. You can use your certificate to win more, better paying jobs. Just think how your bid would look like if it had a copy of your certifacate attached to it! Go Lawnsite...

[Guido]

of my thoughts exactly, the only reason I wouldn't attempt doing it accross the states (AT FIRST) is because the cost of living varies WIDELY from Billy Bob's backwoods dirt road to somewhere in Southbury, Connecticut.

Thats the hurdle with doing it on a large scale, thats why I suggested starting at your local level.

I wouldn't mind seeing a certification program, but you shouldn't have to pay in a tone every year. At forst I understand, or every 5 years, etc. And BTW, PLCAA or ALCAA have cert. programs I believe, but those are mostly the BIG DOG's.

It will happen!

[John Allin]

You don't have to be a "big dog" to take, and pass, the ALCA Certified Landscape Professional test. It takes business sense, accounting knowledge and horticultural knowledge. Lots of big dogs don't have those, and lots of little dogs know what they are doing.

[jeffyr]

Originally posted by khouse
Here is some hourly cost comming off the $100.00 figure. employee=20.00. insurance=4.00. yellow pages add=2.50. phone=3.00. health insurance=3.75. fuel=3.00.truck up keep=1.00. tools=1.00. accountant=1.25. city licenses=.75 and other things not coming to mind right now.

Insurance is $4 per hour worked ? $160 WEEKLY
yellow pages add=2.50 per hour worked ? $100 WEEKLY
phone=3.00 per hour worked ? $120 WEEKLY
health insurance=3.75 " $150 WEEKLY
fuel=3.00 " $120 WEEKLY
truck up keep=1.00 " $40 WEEKLY
tools=1.00 " $40 WEEKLY
accountant=1.25 " $50 WEEKLY
city licenses=.75 " $30 WEELY

TOTALS $810 WEEKLY

Seems like some of those numbers are high. Yellow pages add costs $5200 annually?
Phone bills of $6200 annually ?
Gas at $6200 per year--how far would you drive for a job ?

[bubble boy]

i was thinking the same thing when i read the #s

glad you took the time to work them out, they are unrealistic in my opinion

[Guido]

I wasn't saying that any company could go out and get certified, I just think it does get utilized a lot more by larger companies. A lot of the smaller guys and especially solo guys I talk to don't believe it could help them grow any. I disagree, but I understand where they are coming from. Thats why I say start on a small local level and go from there.

[jeffyr]

Dave,

I know of a company owner that got certification and then raised prices because of the new education. I picked up 3 of his in a row at competative prices because of this. I think he needed a target adjustment and the certification was the first step. My point is by certifying he priced himself out of this neighborhood. Could be he didn't want them anyway. Could be that he wanted to change his clientel. But unless everyone HAS TO become certified and then HAS TO raise prices, we will see the behavior that is being discussed with undercutting and scrubbing.

But I agree that certification would help a company grow, in conjuction with the marketing strategy that would go along with the degree. Now could that growth be the same with just the marketing strategy and no degree ?

It's a mystery.


jeffyr

[smburgess]

The bottom line - there is, in every neighborhood, a fourteen year old boy who will cut the lawn for twenty bucks, but not one that can fix a leaky faucet.
Plumbing is by far a skilled trade, worthy of $60+ dollars per hour, lawn care is NOT.

[khouse]

My numbers were off the top of my head but correct. I own a 1 ton Isuzu 14 foot cab over truck. It gets 7 mpg with the 350 gas engine and my fuel bills have been running 4 to 5 hundred a month. I also have a Mazda truck I use for trash. I have a multi color large yellow page ad that is 380 per month. I have 3 Nextel company phones, 1 local phone and one city line with call forward. Yes, my phone bills are about 450 per month. I have to buy health insurance for me and my family. And it runs over 400 per month. I'm not going to defend the rest of my expenses. But I'm not bull$hitting anybody. I don't make any money until I charge at least 100 per hour or more. If you don't believe me then I'm sorry.

[HBFOXJr]

Just outlaw stupid people. Certification won't work.

Irrigation became a certified occupation in New Jersey several years ago. There was a huge, legitmate need for real knowledge in the industry. Many contractors felt it would also bring up prices. I told them NO WAY, once a cheap ______, always a cheap _______. It has proven true and probably worse. Now if it's licensed people really think there is money in it and they wan't to add it to what they do and installation prices are in the tank.

Why do so many people think that they can buy the same trucks, insurance, Nextel service, telephones etc that a money maker has and cut prices by 20-50 percent?

Many of these people think they don't have overhead becasue they are new and small. So listen up if your one of them. SEnd me your wife, girlfriend or mother thats helping your in the office for free. I need her. Don't count the hours you work longer than 8 in the field because it'll make your earnings look like less per hour. I have ajob for you. Don't count the time you spend on the phone and doing other administrative chores. I have a job for you. Don't take a commission for working as a salesperson when not in the field. I have a job for you.

Tip.... If you think an employer should compensate you for doing a task, make sure you pay yourself the same way.

God bless the plumber making making 25 cents on the dollar because many are not in the green industry.

[AltaLawnCare]

Not to defend khouse, but his numbers may not be based on 40 hours per week and 52 weeks per year. In any service biz, you would have to drive to one site every day and stay there 8 hours per day. My cousin runs a heating/plumming business with two (maybe three)separate crews - and he doesn't live "high on the hog"
Some type of organization is a good idea to educate every one and get them on the same level. I don't think it's legal to discuss specific prices, but show everyone how to cost out their business. This would leave everyone open to figure their own labor at what makes them happy, and keep the bidding wars fair.
On a down note, from what I've seen in local organizations from AutoBody shops - they don't work out. Someone will always get slow and desperate for work and cut a bid (or estimate) down to get it. Then everyone else in the organization starts to wonder why they're spending time and money in the organization and it will fall apart.

[WILSON BROS.]

some of the numbers above seem a bit low to me. Fuel for example runs us about 800-1200.00 per month. It all depends on what you do. How can anyone tell me what my exspenses are I pay the bills. And I sure the rest of you do to. My company has alot of overhead. Some ran out of the home companies do not.