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Mfinley919
10-01-2003, 12:11 PM
I killed my old grass, mended the soil and spread new KB seed and covered with straw to help keep the moisture in.

New seed has germinated nicely, but the straw did too!

I now have lots of hay growing up in the new lawn, what should I do? Will this new hay ruin the new lawn or will it go away with the first mowing?

In the spring I am going to do the same to the back yard, what should I do differently?

greenman
10-01-2003, 08:56 PM
Haha. I know its not funny, Im just laughing because I did the same thing once, not laughing at you. Your straw is probably wheat. It was probably baled "early". It will not go away until its gets hot next year. Its winter wheat. Only choices you have is to just deal with it, or kill it and start all over.......ooops, okay only one choice, because its too late in the season to start over. Sorry.

Relly
10-14-2003, 07:15 PM
Thus the reason NOT to use 'straw'. That stuff creates so many problems.

First, try to identify the weed. Then you can go from there. If it is winter wheat, it will be tough...but first identify so you know what you are dealing with and can then develop an effective management program. Of course, if the decision is to redo it in the spring, DO NOT USE STRAW. My experience has shown me that I get better results NOT using straw, but applying starter fert and of course monitoring moisture levels. I'd much rather do a little touch up seeding than deal with weeds brought in from straw.

kansas_turf_man
11-09-2003, 09:30 PM
Thus the reason to not even bother seeding. Sod it next time, You won't even notice the extra money once its down and looking better in your back yard in 3 hours than your front looks in 2 years.

Mfinley919
11-16-2003, 01:04 PM
Thanks for all the ridiculous, sarcastic and generally mis-informed replies.

I pulled up a search on this site to find the right answers and the concensous is that the straw that is growing is normal and will die out and not come back.

The lawn looks fantastic with a deep rich green color and excellent thickness. I can't wait to see it in the spring!



$40 for a bag of seed vs sodding, I'll take the seed every time thank you.

olderthandirt
11-16-2003, 01:22 PM
Just make sure that its not thistle there can be alot of that if the straws not clean.

Mac

GardenTech
11-16-2003, 01:55 PM
Makes a strong argument for Salt/Marsh Hay , though ( even at $12+ a bale, there will be little need to spend the cost of weed killer in the Spring).

Rebel7695
11-18-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Mfinley919
Thanks for all the ridiculous, sarcastic and generally mis-informed replies.

I pulled up a search on this site to find the right answers and the concensous is that the straw that is growing is normal and will die out and not come back.

The lawn looks fantastic with a deep rich green color and excellent thickness. I can't wait to see it in the spring!



$40 for a bag of seed vs sodding, I'll take the seed every time thank you.

This is a prime example of an jackass customer who thinks about nothing but money... probably has someone mowing his acre lawn for $25....

pike
11-18-2003, 10:52 AM
Some of the straw went to seed in your yard. Believe it or not,even though it looks odd now, when the wheat(barley etc.)dies off, the root growth that rots will actually help your lawn in the long run(aeration&top soil).

leadarrows
11-18-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Mfinley919
Thanks for all the ridiculous, sarcastic and generally mis-informed replies.



They told you it was wheat. Some prefer sod to seed so they told you that.
The only misinformation I see posted here is you calling wheat hay. You'll make no friends here with attacks like this and frankly I'M getting kinda tired of this kind of postings.
I recommend this site to other working professionals and it's starting to get embarrassing to have some of the people I know view the sort of childish behavior I am sorry to say is becoming more and more prevalent on this site. I have bin holding my tongue for a while now and I'LL keep doing it for now but sooner or later I am sure I will get in trouble if this sort of thing persists.
:nono:

There are probable fifty other posts that I have read lately that I could have said this in. I don't know why I chose this one. Maybe it was just the last straw. LOL Come on people just help each other and quit the BS. It's really getting old. IMO.

Mfinley919
11-18-2003, 11:42 AM
Interesting: first you state that I am misinterpreting the relpies, then you finish by validating my statement that you chastised. "LOL Come on people just help each other and quit the BS"

Before you mistate your opinion again search this site for threads on this topic and you will see that the replies in question here are ridiculous, sarcastic and generally mis-informed. I don't know what happened to this site between those older posts and this one, but the people posting now are a different breed.

johnhenry
11-18-2003, 11:50 AM
Glad your lawn is looking good. In the spring you might have some side effects from the straw.Watch out for crabgrass in the spring.Next time never ever use straw.It has no value at all to the seeding process.If I need anything to help cover the new seed.I will use either sand or peat moss.

Mfinley919
11-18-2003, 11:53 AM
Rebel7695

I mow my own lawn, and yes I do think about money, because I don't have a lot of it. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone doing there own labor in the hot sun to improve their property instead of paying you.

I believe America was built on the pioneer sprit of doing it yourself, instead of the service industry principles of consumers paying for what we once did ourselves.

Maybe part of your lack of success in the lawn care biz is connected to your true bitterness and lack of courtesy and customer service which you can help but come across with to your customers.


I enjoy reaping the results of my labors, to see a seed spring to life where there was once just dirt, and to watch a thick, lush carpet of green grass blanket my yard, knowing that I did it myself and can be proud of my acomplishments. Perhaps you got into your business for the same reasons once, but now you have lost that vision and just see your customers as penny pinchers, whose every action and thought is trying to make you work harder for less money. You've gotten to the point where your mindset is "I love my business if it wasn't for my customers it would be perfect."

Mfinley919
11-18-2003, 12:00 PM
Thanks Johnhenry,

I will be using a pre-emergent fertilizer in the spring and hand weed anything that gets by that. I can't wait to see what this lawn looks like by May! It is mid November here in Colorado and while my neighbors laws have gone dormant and brown my lawn in still a deep dark green, this seed is amazing.

I will be re-doing the back yard in the spring and will try your advice in regard to using peat moss for moisture retention instead of the straw.

leadarrows
11-18-2003, 12:02 PM
In general I want to see the BS stopped yes. Specifically I was referring to your BS in this case no mistaken opinion here. It doesn't bother me that they answered you in a light hearted way I'M talking about the kinds of statements that you made not their replies. Actually to be honest I see both sides and maybe your right. Heck I don't know anymore I probable shouldn't have said any thing. I just hate to see this site go down the path it seems to be own. You didn't get the kind of answers you had hoped for so you thur out an attack. Mild in its nature but something I could live with out never the less. Hell I think I'm just having a bad day so I'M going to shut up now.
PS I don't know who this Rebel7695 is but we can defiantly do with out that sort of post. But he posted after your complaint that got me going.

Relly
11-18-2003, 04:42 PM
I probably should let it go, but....

"mis-informed" - who was and in regards to what? You say you mended the soil. Amended it with what? And why? I assume you made changes according to the information provided by your soil test? Did the straw really help keep that moisture in? Isn't it the straw, in part, that made you post the question in the first place. For me, straw is a headache...it blows all over and looks like crap (personal opinion), it introduces a taller weed (they stick out like a sore thumb), it does little to help with moisture (unless put on heavy which makes the problems above worse and leads to more issues). I prefer pelletized paper mulch...personal opinion based on experience.

Don't forget, this format's biggest flaw is that we do not know exactly what you are looking at, what you've done, etc. You gave few facts. When a person reads this, they then can bombard you with probing questions. OR, they can imagine the scenario based on their experience and shoot you a recommendation. I see a lot of room for mistakes, don't you?

Enough of that. Please do not criticize those who try to give their advice and share their experiences. I too hate to see the childish behavior and snide remarks, but I keep trying to ignore it. I think most people mean well, even though their messages don't read well. Take them for what they are. Certainly do not take an ignorant jab at the type of business person or the education level of the individual. Pretty soon, no one will feel like helping you out with future problems.

Congratulations on doing the job yourself, and trying to find answers to your problems. Keep in mind we all come from different parts of the country and deal with different conditions. What works for one or what one prefers is not always going to be right for all of us. I too will seed 100% of the time over sod, but does that mean sodding is a stupid idea?

...For what it's worth.


Good luck with the lawn next year!

Planet Landscaping
11-18-2003, 06:41 PM
Hay,Straw,Combined wheat straw,Salt/marsh hay are all different.Please specify as not to confuse others.We use COMBINED wheat straw.The seed heads are removed.FYI

Mfinley919
11-18-2003, 06:49 PM
I'm loving it that for 5 months there wasn't a single informational post to this thread, then after I get repremanded for saying so there are now FIVE excellent, helpful answers!!!! Thanks to those who took the time to provide their help.

Planet Landscaping
11-18-2003, 06:57 PM
HYDROSEED = Happy homeowners payup

leadarrows
11-18-2003, 07:20 PM
October 1st to November 18th is five months? No wonder I'M so tired all the time. I"M getting older a lot faster than I thought. LOL
I apologize for making you feel reprimanded. It's not your fault the way I feel about whats going on and I was wrong to use your thread to say what I did. It's just so happened I felt like saying it at the time I read your post. You made some valid points. Besides all I did was do the same thing I was complaining about. How do you complain about the complainers with out complaining. :dizzy:

Oh well I'M glad you got the info you wanted and that your yard is doing well. Good luck with it.

Mfinley919
11-18-2003, 07:30 PM
June til October is 5 months.

Thanks Leadarrows, in the end it's all about the grass anyways, right?

crawdad
11-18-2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Mfinley919
June til October is 5 months.

Thanks Leadarrows, in the end it's all about the grass anyways, right?
First post in this thread;
10-01-2003 12:11 PM
Where do you get June till October?
:confused:
Crawdad

NCSULandscaper
11-23-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by johnhenry
Glad your lawn is looking good. In the spring you might have some side effects from the straw.Watch out for crabgrass in the spring.Next time never ever use straw.It has no value at all to the seeding process.If I need anything to help cover the new seed.I will use either sand or peat moss.

Sorry bud but straw has lots of value to the seeding process. We use combined wheat straw on all yards thats not sodded to keep in moisture, and to deter the birds from eating the seed, and for erosion control also.. Ive never had a problem with weeds coming up when using straw. Its weeds coming up because of the seeds(crabgrass) that were laying dormant in the soil until they were disturbed. Crabgrass is not a result from strawing. Big deal if a little wheat comes up in the yard it will all die out and break down into nutrients for the grass.

GroundKprs
11-27-2003, 07:24 PM
History will usually help one to understand what is good in any human endeavor. In most areas, not just plants, history shows how man learned the best ways to handle some natural or mechanical condition, and then over time eroded the simplicity and functionality of this procedure in the interest of effeciency and/or cost reduction.

Straw (common terminology for threshed wheat) has been used for a long time in seeding grasses, to control erosion and retain soil moisture. I have not come across anything better for these two functions, but there are a lot of other cheaper (less labor intensive) alternatives today. In my experience none of them matches straw. Generally other seed mulches are used in the interest of cost savings and/or cosmetics.

I have not gotten completely clean straw since the late 70s - even the threshing process has been sped up in the name of cost savings and efficiency, so all the wheat seeds are not separated out. But wheat is a winter annual - plant it in the fall, and it dies out in next summer's heat, so wheat growing in a new lawn is not a problem, unless you are not going to mow it, and the wheat goes to seed late next spring, LOL.

And new lawns in this country used to be also seeded with wheat, to get quick soil stabilization. Note the roots below a few days after wheat hits ground (that's a quarter in the middle). However, around the 1920s the wheat was eliminated to make seeding cheaper. Mfinley, you don't need to worry about the wheat.

needforspeed
12-16-2003, 03:57 PM
Hydro seed , or after seeding spread light layer of peat or compost soil organic over area, never use straw unless you want a yard full of weeds! If it is a very large yard just let it go and over seed now and then,

Gary

Planet Landscaping
12-16-2003, 04:11 PM
Needforspeed, Dont talk out yuor butt.You Dont know what your saying.Straw will not produce weeds .

NCSULandscaper
12-16-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Jammer
Needforspeed, Dont talk out yuor butt.You Dont know what your saying.Straw will not produce weeds .

Exactly, if you know anything whatso ever you will know there is no weed seeds in straw. Weed seeds are in the ground. You will get just as many weeds from hydroseeding as you will with straw. Its all about the amount of disturbance you do to the soil to prep it.

hole in one lco
12-16-2003, 07:49 PM
if you use pre m you won't be Abel to overseed and you will need a lic to apply pre m

leadarrows
12-16-2003, 09:33 PM
There can be weed seed in straw. There usually isn't because it's best to harvest your wheat before the weeds have had time to get large enough to produce seeds. It could happen though and I have seen it. After the wheat dies back and the wheat is ready for harvest enough light is available for the weeds to grow. If for some reason like a lot of rain slows the harvest sufficiently you could have some weed seed. Weedy wheat is not unheard of either. So it is possible but not the norm. What makes you guys say it like it never could happen?

NCSULandscaper
12-16-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by leadarrows
What makes you guys say it like it never could happen?

Because it doesnt happen here. I have never seen a yard that was strawed be covered in weeds. I guess we just know how to grow wheat like it should around here.

leadarrows
12-16-2003, 11:46 PM
If the wheat is at all weedy then some of those weed plants are going to make it to the straw bale. If those weed plants have weed seeds...... there will be some weeds. Not covered I wouldn't think ether but it's the never any at all I debate.
It isn't a matter of knowing how it's circumstances and conditions that could make it a problem sometimes.
You grow a lot of wheat your self?
How many acres do you have?
I grew up on a Indiana Certified Seed farm. You can see some of the equipment my grandfather farmed with in the Tractors Forum.
By the way I never said our wheat had weed seed in it. LOL Our seed had to meet strict standards to be certified.
I said it can and has happened. Different folks on here have had different experiences. Given the wide area the membership here enjoys it's no surprise. I'M happy that you have not had a bad experience with it your self and for the record I have 5 acres of winter wheat planted this year. We don't grow much wheat these days but I'M running low on straw. LOL
OH and by the way I use it all the time and I don't have a problem with it either. All I'm saying is maybe some of those other fellas did. It is possible. Thats all.

NCSULandscaper
12-17-2003, 12:16 AM
We use to grow about 30 acres of wheat and baled our own straw, now i get it from the farmer next door cheap.

needforspeed
12-17-2003, 04:13 PM
A buddy of mine did his yard and ran out of straw,so half was done,with straw and did not do anything with the other half,
and guess what! you got it, Maybe we just get some bad straw:nono:

lol

needforspeed
12-17-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by NCSULandscaper
Because it doesnt happen here. I have never seen a yard that was strawed be covered in weeds. I guess we just know how to grow wheat like it should around here. That could be Matt, that could be,,LOL

Mfinley919
04-17-2004, 11:55 PM
Well, here is the update. It is now mid April 2004, the lawn made it through the winter, I was keeping my fingers crossed since it had so little time to establish itself.

I gave it it's first mowing, finally! There are a few patches that still need to grow in but for the most part this seed blend has created a lawn that is dark green and looks like it is part of a golf course, people continually stop and wave and thumbs up me or make comments on how lush it looks.

Where my neighbors lawn and mine touches there is a clearly defined line, on my side the lawn is deep dark green and on the other his looks green, but nothing like this, it is absolutely astounding.

I have never seen a lawn that is so thick and rich looking. The Galaxy blend of 3 Kentucky blue grasses only is amazing at this point, we will have to see how it fares in the heat of the summer, I may be crying instead of grinning.

I got tired of waiting for the straw to die, and also the looks of everyone in the neighborhood, I think I was getting to be known as the crazy guy who tore up his perfectly good yard to grow hay in it. I just round uped or yank them all out after I couldn't take it anymore. I don't know if they would have died out on their own, but I was just too impatient and embarassed to put up with them anymore.

Critical Care
04-18-2004, 12:27 AM
Maybe you could post a pic of your lawn. Be honest now and don't show us a picture of the fairway over at Emerald Greens golf course.