Rainbird 5000 series Rotors

[Rotor-Man]

Does anyone use these rotors and if so what are your thoughts and likes and dislikes about them.

[Ground Master]

I think they are great, along with the smaller 3500 version. They are very easy to adjust with a screwdriver, no damn special tool needed!

As far as reliability, I've had virtually no problems.....

I know previous rainbird rotors sucked, but they may have gotten it right with these rotors.

[Rotor-Man]

Groundmaster,
Do you use mainly Rainbird 5000 rotors or do use other brands also, and why? Just thinking of selling 2 different heads for installs next season, but always nervous about using something different for the first time.
Thanks

[koster_irrigation]

Never used them. But ive replaced a few. I dont use rainbird rotors. They just dont last. Their wiper seal sucks.

I use KRain Pro Plus / Toro S800

Or

Hunter I-20's

[turfman59]

Have used them for 3 years, everything from the stainless version to the plastic, GREAT RESULTS everytime. I would rate them a close 2nd to the pgp from hunter. I would really like to see a densogram or coverage profile to honestly say which one has the best coverage. Just my 2 cents worth.

[DanaMac]

I have used them but still prefer the Hunter PGP. I replaced about 10 of them that failed (just like the T-Birds) this spring. They were sent back to Rainbird and tested. The results were that they were damaged during winterizing. Funny, I've still never seen a PGP damaged from winterizing.

PGPs are still the most reliable residential rotor out there.

[SuperShovel]

I love 5000 series, they are all I will install now. Their coverage is excellent and they spin much faster than a hunter. They are also priced right and I have never had a problem with one in 3 years. They are also extremely easy to adjust and don't require a special tool.

[SuperShovel]

By the way my friend who has been designing systems for 40 years introduced me to them, he installed them in his own home and was excited to tell me that he was surprised just how great the worked for him and recommended I use them.

[MOlawnman]

Been using Rain-Bird equipement for the last 6 years. Would use nothing else.

Have replaced several Hunter PGP's with the new 5000's because they either failed or the coverage sucked. Have also replaced a lot of Maxi-paws due to them wearing out.

We only install one brand so as to have continuity in the system. I know a lot contractors use a variety in each system, but we just don't like to do that.

[SuperShovel]

I used to like Maxi Paws for their coverage. But usually had to replace some because of dirt in the cup and such. Since I've been installing the rainbird rotors I haven't had to replace a single head and they cover excellent.

I have the same opinion of the hunter rotors. Their coverage in my opinion is unreliable.

[Planter]

We use a lot of MaxiPaws here because of the dirty water we have. How are the rotors with dirty water?

[SuperShovel]

I haven't done a lake pump system in a while, so I haven't used any with water I would call dirty yet.

[turfman59]

I am not knocking either RB or the PGPs but after seeing PGPs that are 16 years old and still functional, it makes you a believer why they are the number one residential rotor.

[turfman59]

Originally posted by MOlawnman


Have replaced several Hunter PGP's with the new 5000's because they either failed or the coverage sucked. .

We only install one brand so as to have continuity in the system. So much for continuity in the guy that had the Hunter system. I cant fathom a PGP with poor coverage, it just does not make sense, something else had to be the issue.

[MOlawnman]

Bruce..

The continuity I refer to is in the new systems we install. I suggest to all clients that I am replacing heads for that they should replace all at once but most don't want to because of the expense.

The systems I replace heads on are using a mixture of Rain-Bird, Hunter and Toro on the same system!!!

[SuperShovel]

MO - "I suggest to all clients that I am replacing heads for that they should replace all at once but most don't want to because of the expense."

Is this becuase most of the heads are failing or ready to fail?

Do you think it might be a bad idea to even ask them that question?

Replacing all the heads on a system just to make them all the same, or even becuase they aren't brand new, although we would want to do it, I would think your customer would start questioning either your integrity or qualifications.

I'm not questioning either understand, just pointing out that it's possible that that little question deals a big blow to your customers psyche. Unless they are of the mindset that all of their heads are crap and want to replace them all if you think it's the right thing to do. But, I've never had a customer of that mindset, even people with 20 year old systems and money out the yin-yang.

Have you ever had anyone take you up on that offer?

[DanaMac]

The only way you will get poor coverage with a PGP is if the system is installed pooply to begin with. If there is not head-to-head coverage you will get dry areas. But you will get that with most heads if they are not spaced properly. Even the 5000s.

Since we have been in this drought, and on serious water restrictions with twice a week watering, I have seen all the design flaws in systems put in over the years (remember, I don't install. only service). The only time there is a serious issue is when it was designed and installed poorly. Not because of the product put in. Also the proper nozzles need to be installed for matched precip.

We were used to unlimited water here in the desert - we get about 12-14 inches a year in a good year. Now with all the water probs and restictions it is tough keeping any lawn alive. It doesn't matter if I installed and designed, or if a multi-million dollar engineer designed and the biggest landscape comp installed it. The difference between the PGP and 5000 will not be the downfall of the lawn.

[DanaMac]

Sorry this point I'm deleting was meant for the end of season subject.

[SuperShovel]

It's one of those things, personal preference. I think the 5000 series kicks --- against the hunters, but I'm not real sure why. lol

They are a lot easier to adjust and I think they cost less. And I still think they cover better, but that doesnt mean the hunter doesn't cover well.

I hate hunter heads, always have. And I hated their old control boxes until their recent ones have started copying rainbird. I bought hunter controllers in 2000 for a group of 3 jobs, all neighbors, 2 of them older folks. I was so embarrased when I had to show them how to use the hunter controllers which I told them would be simple to use. You could hardly even see the little numbers, some of them were off the screen a little bit, and it was much harder for them to learn then the rainbirds. But I guess thats why they have changed them to be like the rainbirds.

And showing a homeowner how to adjust a rainbird 5000 is a lot more fun than with hunter rotors with their special tools and stubburn hunter attitude

Down with hunter!! Charge! Pull up them all!

Just kidding guys... don't get in a rage, just my personal bias. I'm not taking this too seriously.

[Colorado Mowerboy]

These Rainbird rotors are the best, the guy that recommended the Toros, we yank them and throw them as far as possible every chance we get. What junk.

[MOlawnman]

It is just a personal preference with me as well. i just prefer the RB products.

I realize that all heads installed on a poorly designed system will not provide proper coverage. I think the entire issue hs been blown out of proportion.

Yes I have had clients take me up on the suggestion to replace all heads. The two systems were commercial systems and used a mix of PGP's and Maxi-Paws...not a good combnation in itself. The main reason for the replacement was poorly performing heads mostly due to low gallonage. I have found the 5000's to provide better coverage with less water usage...

Argue the point if you will but that is my finding.

We have also experienced the driest year on record since the 50's here, and I agree that it is hard to keep anything healthy let alone green.

JMO

[James234]

The Rain Bird 5000 has been replaced by the new Rain Bird 42SA. The Hunter PGP is very low tech. compared to the RB 42SA.

[h2o2gunr]

i dont offer any thing but rainbird. i like the 5000 because of the clutch and the nozzles.

truth be told im a rainbird certified contractor so it pays to sell the rainbird products.

[Ground Master]

whats a rainbird 42sa?

[James234]

Originally posted by Ground Master
whats a rainbird 42sa?

The RainBird 42-SA is the replacement rotor for the RainBird 5000, Orbit Voyager II, KRain K2 and the Hunter PGP:

http://www.rainbird.com/diy/products/rotors/42sa.htm

[h2o2gunr]

thats the exact same head as a 5000. they change the name and sell them to homeowners/ hardware stores and hope we dont notice. hunter has the orbit same head same company. bunch of b.s. if you ask me.

[James234]

Yeah, you're right h2o2gunr. The 42-SA is almost identical to the 5000 except that RainBird made many improvements in the mechanical design and they reduced the wholesale and retail prices. The 42-SA is available to both commercial and residential customers.

[Ground Master]

sorry, i don't buy that, the 42sa is strictly the homer depot version.

[James234]

Originally posted by Ground Master
sorry, i don't buy that, the 42sa is strictly the homer depot version.
You're certainly right that the 42-SA is primarily marketed to the do-it-yourself homeowner. Also, the big box stores have really sold a lot of these rotors. The 5000 series has always been (and continues to be) marketed to the commercial installer. It's a fine product but it has now been eclipsed for the most part by the 42-SA.

In short, it's a better product at a better price!:cool:

[Ground Master]

ok we can agree to disagree.........

[James234]

Originally posted by Ground Master
ok we can agree to disagree.........

Hi GroundMaster!:) Heck, I don't see how we disagree. You don't have to take my word for this. Just go down to your local big box store and take a look at the 42-SA. On the label it states, "Replacement for RainBird 5000". ;)

[DanaMac]

I'll agree w/ groundmaster. I wouldn't buy it amd put it in a customers home. The majority of retail products from Rainbird have been crap. And how expensive is it anyway. I can get Hunter PGPs and RB 5004s for less than $9. I'd rather go with the product that is designed more for the professional. Does it have the same warranty as the 5004? I believe the 5004 has either a 3 or 5 year warranty. And my supplier won't hesitate to replace it.

I believe RB markets that head as a "replacement for the 5004" becuase the 5004 is not sold retail. Doesn't mean it is the same or better just because it is the replacement.

[Ground Master]

Its the same as those cheap spray heads rainbird markets at home depot, not the 1804 they actually sell but those other cheapies they sell with the rainbird nozzle in them. Those cheap heads don't last at all.

[James234]

Originally posted by Ground Master
Its the same as those cheap spray heads rainbird markets at home depot, not the 1804 they actually sell but those other cheapies they sell with the rainbird nozzle in them. Those cheap heads don't last at all.

Well, since the 42-SA is a relatively new product, I guess we'll just have to wait on the service interval. However, as DanaMac points out the 5004 has a 5 year warranty and so does the 42-SA! As I posted previously, the 42-SA has a new (less moving parts) mechanical design. It looks like a real good rotor.

[houston]

Went to Home Depot for items I needed for around my house and decided to investigate the 42-SA. :D

On the label it says it is a replacement for:

Rainbird 5000
Orbit Voyager II
KRain k2
Hunter PGP

The impression that I came away with is that it is a rotor that the homeowner can use when he is doing replacement on his own system. After all, the label says "replacement". Just my opinion.

[TennTexan]

Whatever rocks your boat as far as the Rain Bird 42-SA stuff. I work for a professional installation/service company and we don't buy our stuff from Home Depot no matter what the label says it is a "replacement for". As a service technician working on MANY sytsems, I will say this:
1) The Rain Bird 5000 is a good rotor with a very good coverage without using too many GPM's. the #3 nozzle, spaced at 35-40 feet or so, 3-5 heads per zone is what we use for new installations (residential). They occasionally have problems right out of the box with their stem seals leaking, and some of the earlier ones had a higher failure rate of not rotating (though no where near as bad as the t-birds)
2) The Hunter PGP is an excellent rotor, but the nozzle technology is older, which might lead to some slight coverage problems due to less water near the head. If you can afford to lose a little bit of the distance-of-throw, then just turning the break-up screw down into the nozzle stream a little will cure that. However, quite a few of the older PGP's are starting to leak a LOT at the seals, and we are having to replace them very often. It wouldn't be fair to compare them with the Rain Bird 5000's on that yet, as most of those PGP's with the bad seals were in the ground before the 5000's were even conceived of yet. The PGP also has the lowest "failure to rotate" rate of any rotor out there.
3)Toro (any model) Anyone who uses Toro products and actually LIKES them...well, I wouldn't be able to convince you the sky is blue, so I will not try to argue the merits or faults of Toro rotors here except this: Toro price: CHEAP!! Toro quality: EVEN CHEAPER!!!!

[DanaMac]

TennTexan - you hit all points perfectly.

The PGP also has the lowest "failure to rotate" rate of any rotor out there.
This is why I have stuck with them for a long time. Between 1994 and 1999, I replaced thousands and thousnads of RB T-Bird heads. I made great money doing it since RB was paying for it, but it put a bad name on RB rotors. The 5000s are starting to impress me though.

[Ground Master]

i cringe when i work on a system with those t-bird heads..........they are a huge pain in the neck to adjust

i love the 3500 and 5000 thou, its all i use

[gcland]

The old rainbird roters did suck.(R-50) The new 5000 have all the adjustments on the top. (sweep degree) They also come with 12 nozzles for differnt angles and distance of through. They are better than what the people said. I use about 45 of them and the on the site I work at. The only problem is that they are not lawn mower proff, but what head is.

[h2o2gunr]

i had lots of the 1st run of 5000 stop rotating on me as well. the newer 5000 is much better. im still getting some non roaters if the sod company lays over the head. they are getting twisted in the plastic net and strip the gears.

pretty frustrating ole doug stewart the rb rep always played the ole no one else is having that problem b.s.

[gcland]

you may have a few problems with the 5000, but all the problems are minute compared to the R-50..

[James234]

The big advantage of the RB 42SA is that it is a vandal resistant part circle gear driven sprinkler having a plastic pop-up assembly including a nozzle housing rotatably mounted to a non-rotatable pop-up stem within which a reversible gear drive mechanism is mounted.

A slip clutch is provided for mounting the reversible gear drive mechanism within the stem to prevent relative rotation during normal sprinkler operation, but which permits the mechanism to rotate relative to the stem whenever an external torque above a preselected level is applied to the nozzle housing.

This design is a vast improvement over the RB 5000 series and the Hunter PGP. Prior to the RB 42SA, part circle pop-up rotary irrigation sprinklers employed some means such as welding, gluing, keying, and the like, to non-rotatably attach the drive mechanism and associated support housings to the inner wall of the pop-up stem so as to positively prevent relative rotation of the drive mechanism within the stem.

This was believed to be necessary to ensure that when the sprinkler was assembled, the drive mechanism would always have one fixed arc limit of rotation, that fixed limit being established by the position of the fixed trip stop attached to the ring gear. That is, since only one of the trip stops is acutely adjustable relative to the other trip stop which is fixed in position to the nozzle, on assembly of the sprinkler, the fixed trip stop serves as a reference for one of the accurate limits of nozzle rotation, and it was believed necessary to maintain that reference location at all times.

One major problem which has long plagued the art is that of vandalism caused by a forcible rotation of the sprinkler nozzle when the sprinkler is not in operation with sufficient torque to cause one of the trip stops to abut against the trip arm of the trip collar with sufficient force to effect a breakage of the plastic trip stop or trip arm, or to strip the plastic ring gear or the engaged terminal gear. Such overtorquing of the nozzle and the consequential breakage of internal plastic parts within the sprinkler renders the sprinkler essentially useless, therefore requiring expensive repair and/or replacement.

The RB 42SA has overcome the past problems associated with the RB 5000 series and the Hunter PGP.

[TennTexan]

good golly we have an engineer here.
Vandalism on sprinkler systems is not the huge problem the manufacturers would have you believe, at least not around here. I think you're trying to justify using a consumer-grade product versus a professional-grade product. If the 42SA was so great they would sell it in irrigation supply houses, not Home Depot stores.

[GrazerZ]

Vandalism is big at some of our jobs. But honestly, if someone wants to break something, they WILL do it no matter what you stick in the ground.

[bigharold58]

Good rotors; However, be careful when adjusting the arc with the screwdriver. Under the rubber cover is the adjustment slot and with my experience, if dirt happens to get in and you try to adjust the arc, you can very easily strip the plastic slot thread. I originally bought 4 of them, and I had this happen to 2 of them. I have since pulled the last two and replaced all with Hunter PGP rotors and I am very pleased.

[TClawn]

the 5000 series is my favorite rotor. great in close coverage and easy to use.

[DGI]

Good rotors; However, be careful when adjusting the arc with the screwdriver. Under the rubber cover is the adjustment slot and with my experience, if dirt happens to get in and you try to adjust the arc, you can very easily strip the plastic slot thread. I originally bought 4 of them, and I had this happen to 2 of them. I have since pulled the last two and replaced all with Hunter PGP rotors and I am very pleased.


I've had similar experiences.

[SamIV]

For those of you who hate Toro rotors, the rotor MikeK is recommending is actually a KRain product. Irritrol CR 500 is the same product. He runs several crews and uses this product exclusively. Ask him how many he has to replace due to poor performance or reliability issues. You might be surprised.

Thanks,
SamIV

[j_nolesfan]

The guy at Home Depot told me that the 42SA replaced the 5000 this year in the store. I wonder if it's yet another one of Home Depot's ploys where they insist on a lower wholesale price which results in lower quality products? That's rampant in their plumbing department. A Delta faucet even with the same model number isn't the same Delta faucet a plumber would install in your house. Furthermore, a plumber can't even order parts for it. They'd have to go to Home Depot and buy the parts. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

[Mike Leary]

Oh, the Rain-Bird 42SA...."SA" stands for 'sucker all" & that's what you get
by shopping those jive places (imho).

[PurpHaze]

Oh, the Rain-Bird 42SA...."SA" stands for 'sucker all" & that's what you get by shopping those jive places (imho).

LOL... You're starting to sound a lot like a mature CAPT Rotard Boy. Maybe you need a hobby now to go with that retirement? :laugh:

[Mike Leary]

LOL... You're starting to sound a lot like a mature CAPT Rotard Boy. Maybe you need a hobby now to go with that retirement? :laugh:

Yass, you're right...I do rant a tad when it comes to big boxes & the crap
our manufacturers make for the DIYers. Hobby? Hmm, I've always been
interested in rocket science.......:waving:

[sheshovel]

I got a hobby for ya Mike.......................................................heh heh heh.

[Mike Leary]

I got a hobby for ya Mike.......................................................heh heh heh.

Be still my old foolish heart.:weightlifter:

[PurpHaze]

Be still my old foolish heart.:weightlifter:

That would be a major project... NOT a hobby. :laugh:

[sheshovel]

But hobbies are for fun, enjoyment an relaxation Purp. Whatever do you mean?

[Mike Leary]

But hobbies are for fun, enjoyment an relaxation Purp. Whatever do you mean?

I think Purps hobby when he moves to Yakima will be his 1804 pop-up.

[PurpHaze]

I think Purps hobby when he moves to Yakima will be his 1804 pop-up.

Actually I think I'd like to be a Wal Mart greeter: "What the ef you you want?" :laugh:

Or maybe I'll work for a big-box store and confuse the hell out of irrigation customers. :)

[Dirty Water]

Actually I think I'd like to be a Wal Mart greeter: "What the ef you you want?" :laugh:

Or maybe I'll work for a big-box store and confuse the hell out of irrigation customers. :)


You should come out and fix the irrigation in my complex.

I found one of the controller cabinets the other day. 2' tall by 8" deep by about 1.5' wide stainless steel hanging on a wall. It had a toro sticker, and a 2" conduit coming out the bottom.

One day I'm going to peek inside.

I think its this:

http://www.toro.com/irrigation/images/ir_lc_custcommand_metal_s_xl.jpg

[PurpHaze]

If it's Toro and has a lock on it... prolly a CH751 key will open it.

Speaking of the CH751... it's the same lock on the Hunter ACCs.

[PurpHaze]

You should come out and fix the irrigation in my complex.

Have them pay my way up and I'd come. Mike and I could team up on the whole thing. Problem is that we'd prolly get falling-down smashed and not get any work done. Then when you get home we could start all over again. :laugh:

I found one of the controller cabinets the other day. 2' tall by 8" deep by about 1.5' wide stainless steel hanging on a wall. It had a toro sticker, and a 2" conduit coming out the bottom.

2" conduit is a dead giveaway for a commercial controller.

[Mike Leary]

[QUOTE=PurpHaze;1819293]Have them pay my way up and I'd come. Mike and I could team up on the whole thing. Problem is that we'd prolly get falling-down smashed and not get any work done. Then when you get home we could start all over again. :laugh:



Great idea Purp, I've always wanted to be a "kept contractor" Jon is so
kind to us retirees.

[Mike Leary]

[QUOTE=Dirty Water;1819269]

One day I'm going to peek inside.


It is a Custom Command..not a bad clock at all, a "steal" from Hardie/Irritrol
which is the usual Toro ploy. Knockoff of the "Total Control". Me & Purps
could probably operate it...remote harness? Three keys will open most
clocks...CH-751....HL-238 & good old BT-01. You did keep your keys, Jon?
I'll have some made & post them, if you want...I'm suprised you have not
broken in yet..how can you resist?

[Squidward]

OK, but seriously folks, what about replacing the mini-paws? What is best?
-Gary

[Wet_Boots]

OK, but seriously folks, what about replacing the mini-paws? What is best?
-GaryThe only absolutely-sure replacement for a Minipaw is a Maxipaw. You might only have 25 psi at the heads, and need about 35 feet radius from the heads.

[Squidward]

Thanks so much for the help.

Can I get Maxi-Paw heads and screw them directly into the Mini-Paw canisters?

I'm hoping to avoid digging out the cups, and thought you could just replace each of the Mini-Paws with a rotor that would screw into the cup, then either fill in the cup with dirt and seed the exposed portion or buy the Hunter brand that comes with a replacement cover the size of the Mini-Paw cup.

No?

-Gary

[PurpHaze]

The only absolutely-sure replacement for a Minipaw is a Maxipaw.

"When the flow exceeds normal and extra protection is desired at those high-water times of the month and when the flow comes from a dirty source... use the new Rainbird Maxi Pad." :laugh:

Guaranteed to work on badgers.

[BPC]

Guaranteed to work on badgers.

Damn it you guys and your badgers.

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

[Mike Leary]

Damn it you guys and your badgers.

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

That's the kind of post we like to see Bips, you even provided the unwary
with a link!:laugh:

[BPC]

Hey I posted about the 5000's earlier. If you guys have to keep it up with the badgers I want everyone to click the link and share in the pain.

[Mike Leary]

Hey I posted about the 5000's earlier. If you guys have to keep it up with the badgers I want everyone to click the link and share in the pain.

Mite realize a thread on this forum rapidly deteriorates (or grows) to some
completly different subject, then changes again....& on & on. But, to stay on
whatever the subject was...I am going to spec 5000 series 6" stainless on our
next project to try the matched precip. nozzles. We've got 90-180-360 on the
same zones...but as posted on either this thread or some other, I'll zone them
independently in case "matched precipition" don't get it. Was that "Badgers"
or "Wolverines" in the prophetic movie "Red Dawn?"

[Wet_Boots]

Thanks so much for the help.

Can I get Maxi-Paw heads and screw them directly into the Mini-Paw canisters?

I'm hoping to avoid digging out the cups, and thought you could just replace each of the Mini-Paws with a rotor that would screw into the cup, then either fill in the cup with dirt and seed the exposed portion or buy the Hunter brand that comes with a replacement cover the size of the Mini-Paw cup.

No?

-GaryIf you can't get enough dirt out of the Minipaws to spin out the old mechanism, you have to dig out the old head and install a replacement. Since no one can see what your water supply is, and the existing system, only guesses can be supplied. I replace Minipaws with Hunter PGPs on a regular basis. I also install Maxipaw mechanisms into old Minipaw bodies. It all depends on the specific job.

[PurpHaze]

Was that "Badgers" or "Wolverines" in the prophetic movie "Red Dawn?"

Wolverines.

Speaking of gnawing animals I just took the splint/bandage off my hand to give it some breathing space. Looks like a badger chewed it all up. Maybe I'll post pics in the Off Topic forum. :)

[longball07]

So the majority of you think that paying 2 dollars extra per head for the 5000 series is better then picking up some 42sa's?

[DanaMac]

So the majority of you think that paying 2 dollars extra per head for the 5000 series is better then picking up some 42sa's?

What's the 42sa? Is that the Home Depot version of the 5000, or something close? Yes if so.

[longball07]

yea its the big box store version i guess of the 5000. home depot and lowes sell the 42sa and I can get the 5000 series at a irrigation wholesale store for about 1-2 bucks more then the 42sa at lowes. I think I'll stay away from the 42sa, from what people have said on here. Anyway had them in the ground for a year or 2 and have anything to say about them?

[DanaMac]

yea its the big box store version i guess of the 5000. home depot and lowes sell the 42sa and I can get the 5000 series at a irrigation wholesale store for about 1-2 bucks more then the 42sa at lowes. I think I'll stay away from the 42sa, from what people have said on here. Anyway had them in the ground for a year or 2 and have anything to say about them?

I have never installed them, only adjusted or replaced that home owners have installed. Not sure why they seem to fail sooner than the 5000. I also seem to remember that the spray pattern REALLY widens out much further when the adjustment screw is turned down. This kind of causes a problem when the head is near a street, sidewalk, etc. Spray a lot in away from the grass.