PDA

View Full Version : Exmark video tape...will you please shut up with the 15 degrees !!!


GarPA
10-30-2003, 07:29 PM
If you own Exmark have you gotten your little WARNING tape about being safe on a Z? Man if they said,just one more time, about not getting on a slope greater than 15 degrees, I was going to throw a brick at the TV.

My wife had a classic line since she was in the room when I viewed it..she said.."whomever made that tape must think you guys are dumber than the dirt you work in"...

They didnt go to the expense of mailing all of these out just to be warm and fuzzy with us landlizards. One might assume they are having a few too many legal actions blaming them when one of these beasts roll over on Paco Taco

justmjc
10-30-2003, 07:33 PM
Legal protection for them and a reminder for us. I sometimes do go over the 15 degree limit but never encrotch on the safe zones around ponds and the like. Hypocrite right? Lol.

AztlanLC
10-30-2003, 07:46 PM
I don't think at 15 degress you could roll over, I wonder why they put the rops as standard in the new models then?

GarPA
10-30-2003, 07:47 PM
I stay clear of water....of any kind....I embarrassed myself one too many times and from now on I just trim a couple minutes longer.

and yes I also go beyond the 15 degree limit at times...I'll bet most of us do....dumb as that may be but its not practical to keep running back for the walkbehind everytime we come acroos a slope

dvmcmrhp52
10-30-2003, 07:49 PM
My thoughts exactly on the law suits.First thing I said when i saw the tape in the package...."Sombody had a suit against Exmark."

GarPA
10-30-2003, 07:50 PM
thats a VERY GOOD question Atlan...one could assume then that they know we're often at more than 15 , hence they put the rops on

Runner
10-30-2003, 09:45 PM
I was lead to the belief that it MAY have been directed at the "H2B help" more than at us.

TLS
10-30-2003, 10:40 PM
I believe the problem is with down-hill runaway. NOT Tipping over sideways.

I have operated on some pretty steep slopes going across them, but if I were to loose my orientation, and start skidding downhill,.......Well, lets just say that I always had a safety runout route.

I would think the ROPS would make them MORE topheavy, but with that extra weight on the REAR, it'll make them easier to STOP in a down-hill runaway.


For me......I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that ROPS will be collecting dust in my garage attic, just like the ones on my JD's! If you guys can be productive WITH them installed.....more power to ya's. My properties, its more of a tree branch remover than a safety device.

The Lawn Boy Pro
10-30-2003, 11:10 PM
I would think they say 15 degrees becasue theyre are employees who mow as fast as the can, and do NOT slow down on corners-dont lie, we've ALL seen those kinds of LCOs out there. they do corners on slopes at 10-15 MPH, and they dont even think about slowing down. Its a multiple risk factor. Terrain could be wet and slippery, mowing too fast, etc etc etc...

the scaper
10-30-2003, 11:32 PM
i received the tape too but hav'nt watched it yet. i've got some really steep accounts so i would like to get one. i've always been concerned about rollovers, i dont see how anyone could survive one. knowing how safety and liability issue's are these days with all the government manufacturing regulations, warning stickers for dumb people and such, i've always been amazed that z riders dont have a cage and a seat belt on them, or at least a roll bar. so now they're begining to realize that theres a safety concern?? helloooo!.... i think they should GIVE us a rops

jsr2741
10-30-2003, 11:37 PM
I just bought a new 4 wheeler. Got the video out expecting to see info on the machine but it was nothing but 10 minutes worth of safety stuff.

Heck they'll even pay you a $100 to let them sign you or someone else up for a safety class.

Lawn-Scapes
10-30-2003, 11:38 PM
I received the tape too. I don't have a VCR... Do they have a DVD version? :p

the scaper
10-30-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Lawn-Scapes
I received the tape too. I don't have a VCR... Do they have a DVD version? :p mabey if you roll your mower and break your neck they'll give you a vcr, for $179 of coarse

ManleyLawn
10-31-2003, 12:19 AM
i believe that was the tape thats in the trash now... :)

little green guy
10-31-2003, 01:52 AM
yah i got that tape too but havn't watched it. I can't believe their making ROPS standard now. I'm prolly gonna buy another lazer next year and that stupid thing will be off before it even cuts a blade of grass.

TreffertLawnWrx
10-31-2003, 02:39 AM
I watched it for the maintenance stuff as this was my first Z, I aslso watched in spanish, well, cuz, Ok I didnt. :D

Envy Lawn Service
10-31-2003, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by little green guy
yah i got that tape too but havn't watched it. I can't believe their making ROPS standard now. I'm prolly gonna buy another lazer next year and that stupid thing will be off before it even cuts a blade of grass.
I don't see what the big deal is about the ROPS. The system they chose to use is a very nice fold down unit. It folds right out of the way when you need it to for clearance issues.

Envy Lawn Service
10-31-2003, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by TLS
I believe the problem is with down-hill runaway. NOT Tipping over sideways.

I'd say that's right. I never worry about tipping over. That is very unlikely in my opinion. But in a runaway situation, tipping over is a serious consern.

GarPA
10-31-2003, 05:40 AM
ever since I had an incident of sliding straight down a hill whiile trying to get from the front of a property to the back, I now back down steep slopes....more stable as the weight of the machine is not pushing it ...scared the krap out of me...and yep, it was wet that day...never again

pinnacle
10-31-2003, 05:59 AM
I'll tell yas what they need to be doing....................Pop up roll bars.........a spirit level type device that sets off a roll bar. I'd pay the extra for somthing like that.

As for 15 degrees.............................Every day I mow well and beyond that recomendation.
Thats BS!! come to think of it. Why don't the other MFGs make that clear???........................Unless the eXmarks have got a serious roll over issue......................Mabey eXmark are sick of paying compo claims?..................Why else?

Bushman
10-31-2003, 06:13 AM
Most folks around here have a good downhill run-away experience to tell. When the front end slips and points down hill the weight of the machine shifts on to the caster wheels then watch out. I have enough to worry about and getting injured is not one I need.
What these mid-mounts need are (dammit) brakes on the front caster's. A pin/cable run down thru the middle of the spindle with a connection at the top to allow for the spinning would get someone close to making it. I have told the reps if they wanted to be a millionaire design/make caster brakes. Several years ago I met the man who designed the hooker aerator in Canton Ga. He would be great at tackling such a project.

TLS
10-31-2003, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Envy Lawn Service
I don't see what the big deal is about the ROPS. The system they chose to use is a very nice fold down unit. It folds right out of the way when you need it to for clearance issues.

Well then I must be the only guy that mows: under, near, in, around and through low hanging branches and trees. I weave through like a thread through a needle. I raise my arm rests and lean over to the side, slipping right under tree branches that skim the top of my seat. I turn around and branches skim the sides of the radiator guard.

ANY protrusion higher than the back of my seat (and the folded ROPS certainly is), or wider than my radiator guard (and the folded ROPS is also WIDE) is going to HINDER my performance in these situations.



NOW.....If they made the hinge point LOWER and NARROWER, then they'd be on to something. But again, MY hills are safe. I say its great as an option.

BUT some UNlucky vegtable is now making US and EXMARK pay for this safety device due to their STUPIDITY! :eek:


This cost Exmark a TON of money. I just cringe when I looked at the postage they spent to send the video out. Then the video production costs, then the engineering, blah, blah, blah. I guess we're lucky Exmark and Toro are together, as I would think this lawsuit would have sunk ANY other company!

GarPA
10-31-2003, 01:39 PM
I think is bit two faced (thats not quite the right word..but I cant spell the one I'm thinking of) of Exmark to put all these warnings in the owners manual and now in a video, when they know dam well that most of us HAVE TO put these mowers on slopes greater than 15 degrees. I know a couple of their employees who own a Z and I'd bet my last dollar that they do as well.

When you spend $10,000 for a mower, it needs to go where it needs to go(of course not on very steep slopes...but more than 15 degrees)

Who are they trying to kid?? They need to tell it like it is. Becasue most of us know that a 15 degree hill is NOT going to cause a rollover, we push the envelope because they choose not to put a REALISTIC tip over number out there....making us learn the hard way(and maybe the fatal way) just where these mowers can run safely. IMHO, their credibility goes down the dumper on this issue.

GrassBustersLawn
10-31-2003, 05:58 PM
I'm sure it was their attorney telling them to CYA some more. We just had a guy roll his Dixie Chopper into a pond here last month. It trapped him under water & it was 20 + minutes before anyone noticed him missing. So now with the ROPS are they going to start selling the optional "underwater pak" with an air cylinder and regulator?

If in doubt - walk it or trim it, not worth taking a chance dying for to save 30 seconds.

Mike

dvmcmrhp52
10-31-2003, 07:54 PM
TLS says......
This cost Exmark a TON of money. I just cringe when I looked at the postage they spent to send the video out. Then the video production costs, then the engineering, blah, blah, blah. I guess we're lucky Exmark and Toro are together, as I would think this lawsuit would have sunk ANY other company! [/B][/QUOTE]


TLS,
They are just passing all that cost on to us.
Can everyone say "Thank you Mr. Lawyer sir?"

TLS
10-31-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by dvmcmrhp52

They are just passing all that cost on to us.


Not really. They are and they're not. Prices haven't really jumped so to speak. Sure if we old timers actually WANT a ROPS, we have to pay for it (discounted however). But the new '04 Lazers are packed full of nice new features and they really don't cost any more than an '02 or '03. These '04's have NICE features throughout, yet they really aren't charging for them.


As for the 15degree hill bit..... It's there in WRITING, and in a VIDEO, so if one of our Darwinized competition decides to roll one, Exmark can say "we told you so", and at least they'll be somewhat cleared of the resposibility.

Mark
10-31-2003, 11:09 PM
:) TLS your gona have to use a cutting torch on the ROPS there welded to the frame. I think everyone on here has alot of accounts with atleast a 15 degree slops, i know run mine on many 20 plus degree hills, exmark is just covering any roll problems, alot of other ZTRs have the same rule in writing.......Marks Mowing Service

TLS
10-31-2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Mark
:) TLS your gona have to use a cutting torch on the ROPS there welded to the frame.

Are you sure about the welding part? They looked BOLTED on to me. Well at least the retrofit ones are, and maybe I just assumed that the '04's were as well.

Hmmm.....Now you got me thinking. Gotta go look at some pics.

4-Leaf
11-02-2003, 09:49 AM
Sure -- I always carry my surveying equipment with me -- you know -- to measure the slopes ... Jeez.